the oklahoma justices ruling said the lingering impact of the massacre does not fall within the scope of our state public nuisance statute and they rule the state can continue to profit from tulsa massacre related tourism without compensating survivors. today s dismissal marks an end to the quest to see justice in their life time, something i got to speak to ms. fletcher about last year. what does justice look like to you? well, everything is beautiful and rebuilt and restored. you know, we think it is just time now that we have justice on all of that to where we can live all our life. and that is the reidout . all in with chris hayes starts now. tonight on all in day people are saying to themselves, where we better off four years ago or are we better off now and it wasn t even close. the greatest confidence game ever played. voters believe they were better off during trump s term than biden s. we are not better off today than we were four years ago. tonight, from crime to the economy and beyond how a political party led by a criminal is conning america. then you, you are working for a felon. a felon. the maga scandal machine and today s contempt about for the attorney general. and the senate push to do something about the ethics crisis in the supreme court. the highest court in the land should not and could not have the lowest ethical standards. when all in starts right now. good evening from new york, i am chris hayes. as we approach the first debate of a presidential election season, earlier than normal between joe biden and donald trump, it is clear that trump and the republican pitch to voters is fundamentally a con job. i mean that in the most literal sense. the term comes from so-called confidence man, fixtures in the late 18th and 19th century who swindled the victims with their confidence. right now that all s bravado is the defining feature of donald trump s attempt to win back the oval office. remember, this is the man who tried to destroy our constitutional republic live on national television and who utterly failed in overseeing the one national crisis he had to guide the nation through the pandemic. and yet trump and his surrogates are constantly telling voters to ask themselves a question, are you better off than you were four years ago? are you better off than you were four years ago? i don t think joe biden can run on the question of are you better off than you were four years ago. that is one question he is praying that he never hears. are you better under four years of joe biden were four years of donald trump. you know, people are saying to themselves are we better off four years ago or are we better off now and it wasn t even close. that, by the way, was all from the past week. we have been running a series on all in responding to that question because the events of four years ago were so shocking, unprecedented, and traumatic. i think a lot of people, i would say most people including myself, have blocked it out. again, i get it. i don t want to think about sitting inside trying to homeschool my kids or attending zuma for my dearly departed uncle or the images of packed hospitals and dying saying goodbye to their loved ones on ipads. of course the fact that most people don t want to think too much about 2020 is an enormous advantage for republicans and the trump campaign who are attempting to pull off this con job. their aim is to kind of magically replace her memory. to distract you from the fact that four years ago we were all living in the midst of disaster. tonight the country has reached another sobering milestone in the coronavirus pandemic, surpassing 2 million cases and this warning sign. hospitalizations are surging in many states. we will start our rallies back up now. we had a tremendous run at rallies. i don t think there has been an empty seat. i think one in texas. we are going to arizona. texas and arizona among nine states reporting a jump in hospitalizations, the best indicator of the viruses toll. we are really doing a financial comeback. the jobs numbers are fantastic. 1.5 million people filed front employment last week, almost 43 million since the pandemic began. i think the economy next year will be maybe the best it has ever been. we are already seeing the stock market going up, because you have a lot of smart people betting on exactly what i m saying. a selloff from wall street amid new concerns about the continuing spread of covid-19. the dow plunging more than 1800 points, its biggest drop in three months. a very important time in our country. a lot of things are happening and i think when it all ends up it is going to end up very good for everybody. there is growing concern tonight that restricting restrictions is causing an increase in covid-19 cases. all lives are precious, not just the people infected by covid, but also the people who are being driven to this because of the lockdown. what is happening in some of those places. that shut down. the poverty rate is going up. what are people going to do if they don t have jobs to go to to earn a living in order to take care of their families? that is the main reason. all of these scare tactics, they don t work this time around. they will not work. i should note one week after herman cain made that appearance on fox news, he attended donald trump s indoor rally. a big, indoor rally in the midst of covid in tulsa, oklahoma and by the end of june he was hospitalized with covid and died on july 30 at the age of 74. naturally every time we do one of these segments i find that looking back at four years ago brings a lot of emotion. most people divide recent history into the before times and the after times, myself included. a lot of us feel nostalgia for the before times and that is exactly what donald trump and his allies are using to build their lie about what really happened. to erase our real memories and implant false ones. that is their project and it has been unnervingly effective so far. four years ago in june, 2020 while we were living through the pandemic donald trump s approval rating was 42%. and when a new poll, 47% of americans say they approve of the job that trump did as president. it is not much, but those five points are basically the margin of the entire election and they are accomplishing that through flat out lies about what is actually happening. take a listen to missouri senator josh hawley doing this today. he s going to run on his record from four years ago versus biden right now. gas under president biden, up 55%. groceries, up 40%. wages down 3%. that is the campaign. that is before we get to crime, before we get to the border. sorry, josh hawley. wages are up. average hourly earnings are actually up 17% from may, 2020 two 2024 in nominal terms, like groceries and stuff. wages have also outpaced inflation for the past 13 months as the washington post pointed out today. crime is way down. look at what has happened with the homicide rate. in 2020 when donald trump was president, he ushered in under his presidency the largest ever one year jump, spiking 30%. by 2023 the homicide rate had tumbled 19% to 5.3 per 100,000 people. new data shows the rate continues to drop dramatically, down another 20 another 26% in the first quarter from the same time period last year. gas prices, are, i will admit, overall higher than they were in the summer of 2020. why were they low then? no one was traveling anywhere. okay? that is why there were cheap gas prices. refrigerator trucks full of cadavers, yeah, the gas prices were low. and they spiked up in the early part of the biden administration with the war in ukraine, but they have been trending in the right direction and continue to fall even as the summer travel season heats up. grocery prices are coming down. not just with inflation which cooled to 3.3% today, but retailers are actually slashing prices on thousands of islands. of items. again, they spiked during the pandemic like they did everywhere in the world, but they are on the right trajectory now and all of this is happening under the incumbent, joe biden. and we are not losing thousands of americans per day to a deadly pandemic. we do not live in a nation in the throes of constant disorder. this time four years ago we were living through the televised murder of george lloyd and the protestant police response that followed while then president trump called for sending in troops. across the country was started as peaceful gatherings protesting the death of george floyd evolved into destruction. from new york, where police and protesters squared off in the streets, to portland where the mayor issued a state of emergency and a city curfew. the nation erupted into scenes of chaos. violence. and widespread destruction into the early morning hours. in some of the nation s biggest cities, the night spiraled out of control early. we had to run rubber bullets. my cameraman has been hit. we have also seen tear gas being used. here we go again. this is exactly what it looks like. oh. whoa. can you hear us? are you okay? reporter: we are surrounded by the police and you saw the way that they dealt with my cameraman. we don t know who they are targeting at the moment. i said you have to dominate the streets. you can t let that happen and we are doing it with compassion, if you think about it. we are dominating the street with compassion. all that happens under the watch of president donald trump. we cannot say or hear that and if he returns to power i am telling you it is a safe bet that we will return to trauma and chaos. she is a democratic strategist who served as an advisor for the 2020 campaign. they both join me now. doug, i wanted to talk to you because in some ways history and recent history is part of what is being contested in this campaign. the legacy of the first trump year, trump term, and particularly 2020, the four years ago in the famous formulation, as a historian and historian and presidential elections, how do you see it? i think january 6 is such a seminal event and for the days after it seemed like trump was toast. everybody was furious that insurrectionists, but lo and behold suddenly mitch mcconnell came back to trump and lindsey graham and they sort of built this coalition and what is it? it is really anti-federal government. that is what trump represents now. that is why we are seeing the american flag hung upside down by conservative justices. and biden is trying to be part of a tradition, presidents club, of all of the other presidents. you saw on june 6, where ronald reagan is. by then saying i represent all of this and trump is sort of the anti-federal government, anger over covid. and that people still feel that their lives became topsy-turvy and they are going to punish whoever the incumbent is. so it is hard for biden to get traction even though as you said, numbers on the economy are good. we are much better off. he has shown great leadership, but communicating that to the people when there is this much frenzy on social media and hatred toward the federal government, it is an uphill battle for biden to get reelected. i was thinking about 2010, the elections in which of course democrats lost. the tea party uprising. a lot of that was something similar was happening. which is people were frustrated with the aftermath of the financial crisis ushered in by the republican party. democrats were the incumbent party and they took it out against the democrats and it was sort of classic like we don t like the status quo because things are bad and they were bad, but the reason they were bad is because what had been passed on. there is something similar here where the things people don t like him a totally understandably, the shocks that came out of covid were not the doing of joe biden. subsequent administrations had to fix that and people still feel frustrated with the pace that is happening. it s interesting that you bring up what happened in 2010 because i think of the history of the democratic party. to clean up the miss of the republican party and as democrats clean up the miss they have to message against republicans who are acting as if they want the party that let estate into it. four years ago donald trump was telling people to drink leach to cure covid while he was having superspreader events. four years ago people were in their homes watching what you just did in a montage, but we were watching that every day for 24 hours, not knowing when we would see our loved ones and then trying to figure out who we were going to vote for when it comes to the president to get us out of this. you know, policy for people to feel it in their pocket books takes a very long time and while you mentioned some great reports for the biden administration, even the global economic report this week that said the global economy is strong because the u.s. economy is getting strong, but people are not feeling that yet. that is not the fault of president biden. that is the unregulated corporations that republicans are blocking anything democrats want to do around this. this debate coming up, president biden will have to figure out how to message that as well as the surrogates and people talking about this between now and election day so people understand how they are not feeling this, even though these historic numbers are bringing us back to a place that the american people really want to be. you know, doug, i think that before times nostalgia is powerful and i think there is another thing in play here and i would like to get your thoughts on it. my view of trump was always that this is a person who is so unsuited to the job above all else that if and when a crisis comes it will be the worst possible response and then covid happened and it was borne out. i think a lot of people think 2020 is a mulligan. it was a meteor that hit earth and they sort of blocked out the degree of insanity in the crisis management that happened that year and i wonder if you think it is possible to remind them or people are so resistant to thinking about it. i think you can and it is going to be imperative that joe biden reminds people, particularly during the upcoming debate with trump. trump has gone through so many legal jeopardy moments and years have gone by and we are running it on television all the time and you have the 34 felony conventions convictions. even when that happens some democrats were saying don t rub it in trump s base. of course you have to rub it in his face. you have to call him a felon. biden has struggled i think with messaging in the sense of this economy that has been building. he called it a transitory pain we were having at one point and then it was bidenomics. instead they have to lay out that our economy is doing well. yes, i feel your pain at milk, groceries, gas, but he has to be the happy warrior like fdr. at times he does that. i felt that when he was in france, talking about freedom and democracy, but other times he gets in a bit of a defensive crouch. you can t be gerald ford with whip inflation now buttons. you can t be jimmy carter, the malaise or crisis of confidence. presidents get reelected with a sense of victory and optimism and better times are yet to come and obama when he ran, he had the killing of osama bin laden which gave him the foreign policy credential that people clearly understood. the revenge of the 9/11 disaster. the sort of past versus future obviously you have two individuals, one is who is 78 and the other is 81. in some ways donald trump is the recent past and i do wonder if because the past four years have been so dramatic and disruptive, people want to go back in time and that is part of the allure. i think people want to go back in time when there was what they felt was more certainty. with covid there was such uncertainty. the racial unrest and then we saw january 6. hindsight is 2020 and for some reason some people as though they people feel as though they were better under donald trump. that wasn t the case. i think we have to make sure that president biden, and i hope his campaign is listening, that he simplifies his message. he has always been the comforter right next to president obama. be that president and then talk about the ways not only has it gotten folks out of this, but he will continue to do so if they give him four more years. along with a congress and senate to keep doing this work. alencia johnson and doug brinkley, thank you both. coming up, the hunter biden narrative backfires on republicans and now they are going after the attorney general instead. that is next. next. impossible. we re solving the meat problem with more meat. for moderate to severe crohn s disease skyrizi is the first il-23 inhibitor that can deliver remission and visibly improve damage of the intestinal lining. serious allergic reactions and an increased risk of infections or a lower ability to fight them may occur. 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have the transcript. today they voted to hold the attorney general in contempt. congressman joe neguse of colorado is assistant democratic leader and member of the judiciary committee and joins me now. congressman, what was this all about? good evening and good to be with you, chris. unfortunately it is a sad state of affairs in washington, d.c. as extreme house republicans have once again found a way to weaponize what are very constitutional and serious tools that the congress has at its disposal. in this case, as you articulated, they pursued a baseless contempt resolution against the attorney general. by way of background as many of your viewers already know, the attorney general fully complied with the requests made by the congress. the department of justice produced over 90,000 pages of documents with respect to this inquiry. more by the way, chris, then the entire department of justice provided during the course of the trump administration and also produced the transcript itself of the president s conversation with the special counsel. the contextual reasons house republicans offered for purposes of the audio were clearly a smokescreen for what was a political exercise. they wanted audiotapes to use them for a campaign commercial and the attorney general cited a number of reasons why ultimately that tape could not be provided. the president invoked executive privilege and republicans in the house of course know that to be the case, but they proceeded anyway. unfortunately i think it is shameful and disgraceful and we will have to see what comes next in the clown show that they have perpetrated on the american people right now. you know, two things i want to note. the republican who voted against it said as a former prosecutor i cannot in good conscience support a position to score political points. the american people expect congress to work for them and solve policy problems. enough is enough. second of all i want to make sure that i have the events right. merrick garland appoints a special counsel to investigate the president. the man that he appoints is a republican who is a donald trump appointee in the justice department. this individual asks for an interview which the president voluntarily complies with i think for nine hours despite the fact that donald trump never gave an interview to robert mueller. he then uses parts of that interview to take political shots at him in the opening introduction. they release the transcript and all of this is deemed, what? partisan by the republicans? how far can you possibly go? the answer is nowhere. there is nothing you can do. that is the question and it is an open question. you articulated the timeline well. i would offer two amendments. one, this attorney general produced as you know the special counsel report in full, unredacted. very different compared to attorney general bill burr. i remember as we dealt with subterfuge with respect to the special counsel investigation and in this case the special counsel testified in front of my committee, as did the attorney general as recently as last week. this is a farce. house republicans know that. it is a way for them to up skate their lack of days for them to obfuscate their lack of an agenda. they prefer to spend time on these political games, which is unfortunate. it is not a coincidence the timing between hunter biden s conviction yesterday and this. this is the new york times reporting. mister trump who aggressively attacked hunter biden in the 2020 election has changed his mind about doing so now. trump said republicans needed to be careful not to go overboard because it could elicit sympathy and make people view the president as a caring father. so they spend years chasing this guy to the ends of the earth. they successfully, let s be clear, they basically successfully control this investigation. the prosecution happens and now it is like we ve got to light a new fire because that one has burned out. look, in their view the circus must continue. their message is not resonating with the american people, so as a result they will continue pursuing political retribution at every turn and of course this is not the first time. they pursued seven or eight different impeachment resolutions at various points in the last 18 months against a variety of cabinet officials. they impeached secretary mayorkas. that was dispensed in the senate without a trial. the attempted impeachment of president biden failed. so i have no doubt that unfortunately these games are going to continue for some time. hope springs eternal that perhaps some in the republican caucus will do what representative joyce did today and ultimately speak truth to power and do the right thing and join us in getting back to the business of the house. congressman joe neguse, thank you for your time. up next, what happened in the senate when the democrats tried to introduce ethics to the supreme court. next. . my mental health was better. but 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same rules that guide members of congress and federal employees. in the senate today democrats ask for unanimous consent to pass a binding ethics package for the court. it was blocked by the top republican on the senate judiciary committee, senator lindsey graham. joining me now is senator jeff merkley, one of several democrats who took to the senate floor arguing why the ethics package should pass. senator, it is good to have you on. first, tell me what the act fix what the ethics package, what would it do? it is so straightforward, chris. it says they would have to have a binding code of ethics at least as strong as the house or senate has. what applies to the executive branch, what applies to other judges, what applies to members of the house and senate applies to the supremes as well. that is like what congressman raskin and ocasio- cortez were talking about. you could not do it as a senator. you could not do it as a mid- level engineer at the department of the interior and you could not do it as any other federal judge. chris, it is just phenomenal. think about what this looks like. it is mega yacht trips. indonesia. tuition for family members. luxury rvs. helicopter flights. you name it. $6 million of gifts over the last 20 years. here is the scenario. for an average person hauled into court and somebody sues you and you find out the person suing you has been going on fishing trips to alaska with the judge. would you think you are getting a fair shake? that there is any possibility of justice in that situation? the answer is absolutely not. that is a profoundly corrupt court and that is what we have today. i think, well, i don t know what the logic is but i think republicans say this is all partisan. the reason you are doing this is because you don t like the rulings in the court, you don t like the ideology, so you are trying to attack legitimacy to a road power for purely ideological and partisan reasons. certainly if republicans want this court to have the force that comes with integrity and respect of the american people, then they should be the first to step forward to clean up this miss. it is in fact a miss and certainly i believe that these justices on the right who were trained and selected by the federalist society to deliver power on a plate to corporations in america, are deeply, profoundly warping the constitution. in favor of corporations and against consumers and environmental laws and many other things. this issue of accepting massive gifts from people who have issues before the court, that stands on its own. separate from any dispute one might have. i want to redo something that sam alito said last summer in an interview with the wall street journal to a lawyer and a writer there. he said i know this is a controversial view, but i m willing to say it, he says. no provision in the constitution gives congress the authority to regulate the supreme court, period. what do you think of that? it is called legislation and the constitution does give legislation power to the congress. it gives the ability to put a code of ethics on the executive branch. yes a president can veto it, but we can override that veto. certainly there was a sense of while the constitution said little about what the court system would look like, there were massive decisions made by congress to decide how the judiciary would be structured and run. so absolutely that does not pass any sort of common sense or legal examination. final question and quickly. on the question of having the chief justice come before the senate. he has basically blown off an inquiry from the chair of the judiciary committee who reached out to him. samuel alito has written to say i am not recusing myself. basically they are like, you are not the boss of us and we don t have to listen to anything you say. is that a tolerable equilibrium? it is not, because they are basically saying we have the right to be corrupt and you can t do anything about it and that deeply undermines a key institution in our country in which we need to have a sense of respect. a sense that it delivers the balls and strikes, as justice roberts once said in his confirmation hearings. right now we are getting profound conflict of interest and that is really sad to hear. chris, here is the thing. justice roberts, in running this court, he has to recognize that he is failing in his responsibility to run this court in a fashion which delivers fairness and a sense of integrity to the american people. one jeff merkley, inc. s very much. we will be right back. if advanced lung cancer has you searching for possibilities, discover a different first treatment. immunotherapies work with your immune system to attack cancer. but opdivo plus yervoy is the first combination of 2 immunotherapies for adults newly diagnosed with non-small cell lung cancer that has spread, tests positive for pd-l1, and does not have an abnormal egfr or alk gene. opdivo plus yervoy is not chemotherapy, 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yervoy. a chance to live longer. right now across the u.s., people are trying to ban books from public schools and public libraries. yes, libraries. we all have a first amendment right to read and learn different viewpoints. that s why every book belongs on the shelf. yet book banning in the u.s. is worse than i ve ever seen. it s people in power who want to control everything. well, i say no to censorship. and i say yes to freedom of speech and expression. if you do too, please join us in supporting the american civil liberties union today. for over 100 years, the aclu has fought for your rights and mine. including the right to read all manner of books. so please call or go online to myaclu.org. for just $19 a month, only $0.63 a day. you can become a guardian of liberty and help protect all the rights promised to us by the u.s. constitution. make no mistake, this move to ban books is a coordinated attack on students right to learn. this is a clear violation of free speech. that s why the aclu is working to fight against censorship in all its forms. it is so important now more than ever. so please call or go to myaclu.org and become an aclu guardian of liberty, for just $19 a month. use your credit card and you ll get this special we the people t-shirt and more to show you re helping to protect the rights of all people. the aclu is in all 50 states, d.c. and puerto rico defending our first amendment right of free speech and all of your constitutional rights. because we the people, means all of us. so please, call or, go online to myaclu.org today. when we say it ll be on time, they expect it to be on time. turn shipping to your advantage. keep those expectations with reliable ground shipping. thanks brandon. with usps ground advantage®. the repository of authority, the things people trust, believe in, the fairness of the game is doubted by large majorities of americans. a lot of that has to do with stagnating wages in the middle, but you see that playing out in trump s closing message railing against pharmaceutical companies and the like and bernie sanders message from the beginning. it has been almost a decade since my brief flirtation with internet immortality. there was even a videogame created out of that. in my defense it had been a very long day covering the new hampshire primary and we were doing my show where we did so many msnbc shows that you re at jds tavern. in that very moment as i was speaking, in my line of sight, howard feynman sitting in a booth about to take a bite from a huge pastrami sandwich. the legendary political journalist was with us at all of those political moments on every primary, convention, everything in between going back more than 20 years. he was a near constant presence on msnbc, sharing reporting and insight from his career spanning four decades and seven presidents. you confess your weak spot up front, but then you turn it into a virtue and make what you hope is a dramatic and winning contest with your opponent. in this case as you say you cannot out flamboyant donald trump. you cannot be more, in many ways, irresponsible than donald trump. howard fineman was more connected in politics than just about any journalist has been. it was a force of nature who knew everybody in washington. i was so saddened to learn that howard died today at the age of 75 after a long battle with cancer. i knew him well. i knew him to be exceedingly clever and exceedingly kind. and howard had this bravado that they don t make anymore. our thoughts are with the family tonight including his son nick, who is a senior producer here at msnbc. we are all really going to miss him. i saw how easily it picked up my hair every time i dried it. it only takes a minute. look at that! the heavy duty cloths are extra thick for amazing trap and lock. even for his hair. wow! and for dust i love my heavy duty duster. the fluffy fibers trap dust on contact up high and all around without having to lift a thing. i m so hooked! 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[ surprised scream ] don t panic. gift easy with etsy. i told myself i was ok with my moderate to severe rheumatoid arthritis symptoms. with my psoriatic arthritis symptoms. but just ok isn t ok. and i was done settling. if you still have symptoms after a tnf blocker like humira or enbrel, rinvoq is different and may help. rinvoq is a once-daily pill that can rapidly relieve joint pain, stiffness, and swelling in ra and psa. relieve fatigue for some. and stop joint damage. and in psa, can leave skin clear or almost clear. rinvoq can lower your ability to fight infections, including tb. serious infections and blood clots, some fatal; cancers, including lymphoma and skin; heart attack, stroke, and gi tears occurred. people 50 and older with a heart disease risk factor have an increased risk of death. serious allergic reactions can occur. tell your doctor if you are or may become pregnant. done settling? ask your rheumatologist for rinvoq. and take back what s yours. abbvie could help you save. it has been 250 days since the october 7th attacks, and an estimated 120 israeli hostages still remain in gaza. president biden, the u.n. security council, and the governments of qatar and egypt are all still pushing for a negotiated ceasefire that would release all the remaining hostages of the fate of that deal remains unclear. 120 hostages have been returned to israel alive that. includes 116 released as part of the brief pause in fighting that happened last november, as well as the four who were rescued in a military operation last weekend that also left nearly 300 palestinians dead, according to the gaza health ministry. since the conflict began, family members of many hostages have urged israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu and his government to come to a deal for the hostages release. organizing, protesting, meeting with leaders both in iz xrael the u.s., and now one of those groups has written an open letter to american jewish organizations asking their help to press netanyahu to end the war and accept the deal that s on the table, saying israelis are being held hostage, not just our families who are held by hamas in gaza, we are always hostage to bibi s actions. he is risking the lives of our soldiers. he is jeopardizing the lives of our hostages. he is endangering us all. a spokesman for those families a critic of the netanyahu government. multiple members of his family were taken by hamas on october 7th. three of his relatives were released in that initial swap last year, but his uncle remains in captivity where he recently turned 79. and he joins me now. it s really an honor to have you, and i want to thank you for joining us. i want to start just by asking you how your family is doing. how those released in november are coping, how you are coping with your uncle s continued absence. well, thank you for having me first. my family members are trying to cope, but you know, everything is in, like, this static mode because we are still waiting for abraham to come back. if he comes back, nothing can start moving into a phase, so day by day, i guess. this is the way a lot of families, not just my family, of course, a lot of families are feeling this way. and we are waiting for this issue to be resolved, and it s been taking so long. it s amazing. there are sort of two stories i ve heard or two sort of arguments about a ceasefire deal. one is that hamas won t accept one on the terms that israel would find acceptable, and that the head of the military commander in hamas wants to keep the war going. the other is that it s not worth a deal prematurely if it means a cessation of hostilities before eradicating hamas. and as someone who has a family member there and has been organizing, what is your demand, your request, your ask of your government on this negotiation? first and foremost, a ceasefire. first and foremost, a ceasefire. this is elementary. this is like when there was a ceasefire, hostages came back. now, they happen here and there, they are not a strategic solution to the problem of 120 people still kept in captivity. you know, during seven months of military operation israel succeeded in releasing seven hostages alive. this is, you know, a pace of one hostage a month. eight months, even. so 120 hostages would take ten years time. the hostages have no time. the sanitary conditions are nonexistent. the health is deteriorating by the day. physical and mental. and we must find a way to bring them back home as soon as possible. these are not, you know, these are not only young people, these are elderly people, grandfathers and parents and uncles and people that were taken from their beds at 7:00 a.m. on a saturday, you know, in their pajamas and barefoot sometimes, yeah. in the u.s., one of the things that people there has been kind of a joining of the notion of the war and the justness of it and doing it on behalf of the hostages. many people feel that the war is on behalf of the hostages, and people think that those, you know, who are calling for ceasefire are betraying them or forgetting about them. and you wrote this open letter that basically argued the opposite. and so for people that are people of good faith across the spectrum on this very contested issue, i want to hear your argument to them as a family member. sure, sure. first, again, a ceasefire. why? the thing that endangers the hostages the most right now, idf bombing. this has been from october 8th ongoing where my 9-year-old cousin s son was asked during an interview after he has spent 49 days in gaza captivity, he was asked what do you feel most about your grandfather still being there? without hesitation he answered the idf bombing. the idf bombing endangers the hostages, and the idf bombing, actually, we know about 14 hostages that were killed either by direct hit by the idf or, you know, as after an idf attack, the attackers needed to evacuate the space. they killed them, so you know, the military operation endangers the hostages. it got seven hostages out, 14, at least, dead, and this the whole military maneuver is not getting it s not for the hostages at all. it s not helping them. on the contrary, it gets them further and further away from the hostage deal, further and further away from getting united with their loved ones. because we know that the conditions for the hostage exchange or the prisoners exchange or whatever you want to call this, getting them back home is first, ceasefire. and by waging this war from day one, the israel government initiatives of this military operation is only keeping us apart, keeping us further and further apart. at the beginning it was only northern gaza, then it was rafah, and before that it was elsewhere, and we re just getting further and further apart from a solution to this problem, because the solution should start with a ceasefire. this is, you know, logical and basic. a spokesperson for the group of hostage, his uncle held by hamas in gaza. i can t thank you enough for making time for us. we re all thinking about you and your family. thank you very much. and we pray for the safe return of all of the hostages as soon as possible. this is a humanitarian issue. this is not some political issue, and people trying to make this a political issue, especially, the government trying to make this political. no, this is a humanitarian crisis. and everything should be done to get them back as soon as possible. thank you very much. that is all in on this wednesday night. alex wagner tonight starts right now. good evening, alex. 250 days, just unbelievable this is where we are. thank you, my friend, as always. so i want to start with a story that in any other universe would have absolutely nothing to do with politics or anything even approximating controversy. the kind of news we all used to read or hear and accept. but in the post-trump era, this
that is tonight s last word. the 11th hour with stephanie ruhle starts now. tonight, hunter biden guilty in his federal gun case. what s next for the president s only living son as he awaits sentence thing and what it could mean for the race. then my exclusive interview with john bolton. why he thinks we are not taking the former president s threats seriously enough. plus, pride month under attack. why progress is being lost as the 11th hour gets underway on this tuesday night. good evening once again, i am stephanie ruhle and we are now 147 days away from the election and today the president son, hunter biden, was convicted on all counts in his federal gun trial. the jury deliberated the three counts for just three hours. president biden says he accepts the outcome of the case and will always be there for his son. here is my colleague ryan nobles with more. reporter: tonight president biden arriving in delaware, hugging his son on the tarmac after hunter biden became the first child of a sitting president found guilty in a criminal trial. no one in this country is above the law. reporter: it took three hours of deliberations for 12 jurors to unanimously determine hunter biden guilty of three felony counts. for lying about his drug use on a federal background check to buy a gun. special counsel david weiss, who oversaw the prosecution, saying this is not a case about hunter s struggles with crack, but his decision to break the law. s choice to lie on a government form when he bought a gun and then to possess that gun. it was these choices and the combination of guns and drugs that made his conduct dangerous. reporter: inside the courtroom, the president s 54- year-old son did not react as the verdict was read. he left the courthouse holding the hand of the first lady, later releasing a statement saying i am more grateful today for the love and support i experienced this last week from melissa, my family, my friends, and my community then i am disappointed about the outcome. the verdict comes after four days of testimony from people who are or were once close to hunter biden. many testifying about his drug use around the time he filled out the background check saying he was not a drug user. his ex-girlfriend testified she witnessed hunter smoking crack every 20 minutes or so. the prosecution also using clips from hunter s own book. i have no plans beyond the moment. reporter: the defense argued hunter biden did not knowingly lie on the form. tonight we spoke to juror number 10, who asked that we conceal his identity. separating the politics from the case a absolutely. for us it was not politically motivated. politics never played into anything that we said in the jury room. reporter: president biden, who said he would not pardon his son, writing, jill and i love our son and we are so proud of the man he is today. jill and i will always be there for hunter and the rest of our family with our love and support. nothing will ever change that. with that let s get smarter with the help of our leadoff panel this evening. mike memoli is here. he has covered president biden and his family for more than a decade. susan glasser joins us, staff writer for the new yorker and harry litman, former assistant attorney general. mike, you know this president and his family better than any other reporter out there. how are they all reacting to this? biden has a lot of family expressions and one i have heard him invoke so often is that family is everything. it is the beginning, it is the middle, and it is the end. in the more than decade of covered president biden i have seen them come together to celebrate their greatest triumphs. the election, the inauguration most recently. i have also seen them have to endure some of the most difficult and tragic moments as a family. this is one that yet again has brought the family together. to really take stock of a very difficult moment. really the past week and a half has been so difficult to have to relive through this trial the most difficult moments of their family, starting with the death of beau biden and what it did to hunter biden, leading to the addiction to drugs. as i have been talking to people close to the family tonight i have been struck by a tone of defiance about what comes next. there has been concern about what this might mean politically, but also personally for president biden. he is 21 weeks away from his last election. 16 days away from a consequential debate against donald trump, but the tone i am hearing from people close to the president is that they are so proud of their public service as a family and nothing is going to stop them from achieving the goal that is set out in front of them. they know they have a difficult task ahead. the politics, the legal situation does not get easier from here but they are determined to face this together as a family. harry, you wrote in the l.a. times that the jury decision was right, but the prosecution was wrong. i don t think i know what that means. let me try. department of justice guidelines, stephanie, have ways of handling cases and cases like this in which someone lies on a form but does not do any other crime with a gun or part of a gang or whatever are universally dismissed or not treated with the severity that david weiss treated this one. that is how david weiss first proposed to treat this one about a year ago when the gun charges were going to be the subject of a diversion agreement if hunter biden kept clean for two years. it would go away. so the screaming question, not the jury verdict but the question to charge presents and i don t know what the answer is. what happened to change his view of what was the proper punishment and treatment of hunter biden to take it outside how gop practice would normally treat it. because he is a special counsel no one in the doj supervisory structure which normally would say we don t do that to these cases, here is how we handle these cases. no one was there to say that and i think it is certain for whatever reason that hunter was treated more severely than another defendant with the same facts. you have written that you don t think a game changer could change voters minds about this election so i assume you think this verdict won t have much of an impact. we are getting to the point that you are anticipating me too well. look, if donald trump s conviction and becoming the first convicted felon in american history who was a former president, if that was not a radical change in the election, i don t see the conviction of a private citizen, even one who was the son of a current president to be a game changer in this race. it was that close. there was a minor, incremental shift at best toward biden. it is not entirely clear how this conviction of biden s son will play politically. certainly republicans were immediately questioning this, saying this is really just a distraction and all sorts of instantaneous conspiracy theories. default setting from some of trumps public supporters and defenders. you know, hunter biden is not running for president and that s the bottom line. there is no evidence that years of investigations of him, of dragging his name around, has really affected biden s political standing and i don t anticipate this would, either. hunter biden is not running for president. we should remind our audience he has no role in our government, past, present, and no plans for the future. harry, what could he be looking at as far as sentence goes? the standard guidelines would dictate a sentence between 15 to 21 months, based on the conduct and lack of criminal history. those are just recommendations and my best guess, consistent with what i was saying about how people who don t do anything else other than lie on the form are treated is that he will receive a fair bit less than that from the judge. remember however that there are still the tax charges he has to face and david weiss made it clear that the investigation is ongoing and he may be targeting some of hunter biden s conduct in 2014 or so in china, in business dealings. for this charge i expect him to get a sentence that is a matter of months, not the 15 to 21 that the guidelines would otherwise dictate. even if it is just a few months, hunter biden, unlike most people in his situation has secret service protection. so how does that work? your guess is as good as mine, though we have been thinking about it and we know the secret service prepared a plan when it came up with donald trump. trump would have his own wing and people would be there. there would be a lot of cooperation with local authorities. here it is easier because it is federal authorities, bureau of prisons and secret service. that will be worked out one way or another. i think that is sort of the least of the practical issues that this conviction poses today. michael, you laid it out for us, how close the biden family has. how to finance the president is when it comes to protecting his family, how he talks about the family. around this time last year i interviewed the president. much to his teams chagrin, anger, fury, i asked about hunter and he said my son is an innocent man, my son is a good man. the president is now headed deeper into this campaign into the debate stage. how is he going to handle the questions he is asked, the narrative around hunter now that we have this guilty verdict and a president who does respect the rule of law and decisions made by a jury? just think about the gauntlet that is ahead. i mentioned 16 days from now is the first debate. preparation is critical. the president tomorrow is leaving for an important foreign trip. meeting with other key leaders as well as pope francis. you know how close this president is with that hope. it will be an interesting meeting, but then he comes back and has a little over a week to prepare for that debate. we have never in modern history scenery match between combatants like trump and biden and we know the strategy on the part of the former president is very likely to try to get under president biden skin and use this against him. the biden team looks at 2020 when, yes, hunter biden was a frequent political cudgel that trump tried to use against him and the president s advisers say it did not work then and it actually backfired on donald trump. they are presenting this as do this at your own peril to donald trump, but i think it is a concern to people close to president biden that as important as the debate is and as important as preparation is, will he be able to focus on the task at hand? the answer from those i ve spoken to today is that is not going to be an issue. susan, i m sure you remember this question. former president trump and his friends at fox news said it over and over and over. where is hunter? they said it for days, weeks, months. it seemed like years. yet after today s verdict the trump campaign was basically silent, saying it is just a distraction. what in the world is going on here, susan? well, first of all i guess now that donald trump himself where s the label of convicted felon and has been at the spearhead of the most kind of concerted assault that we have ever seen, i think, by one political party in this country against the very legitimacy of the legal system. it is not exactly a comparison that is favorable where you have democrats on down today saying listen, we respect the rule of law. biden isn t going to issue a pardon for his own son. as painful as this is we think that the jury system works and things like that. the contrast with trump is obviously one that is very unfavorable and i am struck by how quickly trumps allies immediately reverted to conspiracy theories and make- believe. i can t stress that enough. they are still in burnet down mode when it comes to our legal system and that includes, you know, trying to imply that this case is a distraction from the real secret being covered up, the real case that should be brought against hunter biden. whatever the conspiracy theory is, it is part of a purposeful plan to rip down the authority and the legitimacy of the legal system, because of donald trump. because of one man. republicans like to say the current president weaponize is the justice department, but i want to share with democrat jim mcgovern had to say about that very thing. watch this. apparently when a republican is convicted it is weaponization, but when a democrat is convicted, the president s son no less, that is justice. give me a break. hunter biden was found guilty by a jury of his peers, just like donald trump. the divide is stunning and it is a great reminder that one political party remains committed to the rule of law and the other doesn t. jim mcgovern bringing a rational thought to a political party. crazy to do these days. michael, there are a lot of apolitical people. it seems like what you laid out with the a clear contrast for voters. is it? it is interesting because what we didn t hear from the president, from those around him tonight, was criticism of a trump appointed judge that presided over this trial or the prosecution from the trump appointed special counsel. there was none of that in the statement before the trial began and today when the try was over, he reiterated his respect for the rule of law and freedom and democracy have been an important part of the president s campaign. that is an example he is showing not just through those words, but the words we saw in another interview last week. the president has the power after this difficult moment, this difficult verdict, to free his son of any potential jail time. he can issue a pardon as soon as the sentence comes down and he has said he will not do that. if ever there was an opportunity for a president to put their finger on the scale of the justice system and given how close he and his family are, it would seem to be in this moment and he said he is not going to do that. thank you all for starting us off on this very serious news evening. when we return this man once worked in the trump administration and a cabinet level position. now one of his biggest critics. john bolton talks the verdicts in both trump and hunter biden s trials. later the biden campaign has an aggressive strategy to brand trump as a felon. how the president s sons verdict could complicate that. the 11th hour, just getting underway on a tuesday night. da. 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( ) ( ) this one will never see the light of day. all right. i bought the team! kevin.? i put it on my chase freedom unlimited card. and i m gonna cashback on a few other things too! starting with the sound system. that s caaaaaaaaash. cashback like a pro with chase freedom unlimited. how do you cashback? revenge does take time, i will say that. sometimes revenge can be justified. sometimes it can. look, when this election is over, based on what they ve done, i would have every right to go after them and it is easy, because it is joe biden. you see all of the criminality. i know a lot of republicans want retribution. we are going to see what happens. the former president has been vague on details, but there is no doubt that revenge has been top of mind for donald trump. nbc news noting, quote, trump has done at least five interviews since his guilty verdict. in all five he has talked about possible retribution. his former national security advisor john bolton has been warning about this for years. in february, 2023 he wrote trump really cares only about retribution for himself and it will consume much of his second term. john bolton joins us now. ambassador, thank you for being here. i wanted to talk to you because donald trump is clearly not shy about saying he would get revenge on his perceived enemies in a second term. are we taking his threats seriously enough? i don t think enough people are. when you hear trump saying things like people are saying that retribution can be justified, what he really means is i am saying that retribution can be justified. i think he has a long list of adversaries he wants to go after, but i think the justice department under the trump administration will be in continuing chaos as he tells his political appointee is to go after people whether there are grounds to do it or not and what those lawyers do will tell you a lot about their legal integrity. i think it will put the judiciary under real pressure. you might be on the perceived enemy list. are you concerned at all for your safety? i m concerned about a lot of people that i think he made clear he wants to go after. he tried to suppress my book. he tried to get a criminal investigation started. both of those have been settled and taken out of the picture because they were utterly without merit, but i don t think those technicalities stand in trumps way. he said for example he wants to prosecute the former chairman of the joint chief of staff s for daring to have a conversation with his chinese counterpart in the run-up to january 6, to assure the chinese that they need not worry. trump says that his treason and he reminded people that the death penalty used to apply. i think he is very serious. he may joke about it a little bit, but this will be a retribution presidency and i think the justice department will be where the rubber meets the road. you called the new york verdict a fire bell in the night and you urged your party to nominate somebody else at the convention. do you think that is something that could realistically happen? is there a group behind the scenes potentially working on this? i don t think it is realistic, but i think people ought to have a gut check one more time. for most americans voting for a convicted felon, i think, is going to be a real obstacle. you can say all you want that this was the result of political discrimination against trump. he will be able to raise the selective prosecution argument on appeal. when the case was put in front of 12 regular americans, new yorkers like donald trump used to be, they found him guilty. i think the facts the prosecution presented were clear and that is a problem the party will have and could affect senate candidates, house candidates, gubernatorial candidates. i think if he is elected, electing the first convicted felon as president of the united states will cause real damage to the united states and how we are perceived abroad. given the guilty verdict today for president biden son, hunter biden, what do you say to those republicans who say joe biden weaponized the department of justice and made it his political tool? right and basically shot his son in the process. it is a conspiracy theory. i speak as an alumnus of the department of justice. you could not do in that department what trumps supporters say has been done and not have it leaked to every major media outlet in the country. it is possible to be the victim of selective prosecution and unfairly so and also be guilty. i think certainly that is probably true in trump s case. in hunter biden s case they are not done with him yet. there will be an income tax case and the u.s. attorney, special counsel investigation into hunter continues. so i would like to see what the impact of this case is on the election. it will have an election impact, even though it is not joe biden. it is his son. and see what people think when trump says poor donald trump, the whole world is against him. apparently against hunter biden, too. do you think donald trump is a threat to democracy? we keep hearing that phrase. i want to know if you believe it and if so, practically, tangibly what does it look like? i don t think it is a threat to democracy or our system. i think it will cause enormous damage and a term of confusion and turmoil. but the idea that donald trump is going to overthrow the united states constitution, overthrow the republic as an existential threat to democracy gives him too much credit. i think it is important to state the threat accurately. not to overstate it, not to understate it, but to understand what the nature of the threat is so people who oppose it can combat it more effectively. overdoing it i think gives trump a break and that s a mistake. you said that donald trump doesn t have the brains for dictatorship. even though he said that he would be a dictator on day one. does that make him any less dangerous if he is not that smart but still wants to be a dictator? i think it goes to the point that while donald trump has an infinite span of attention when it comes to the greater glory of donald trump, his attention span on most other issues is about he will to a fruit fly. so that his opponents and even some of his supporters who try and move him away from the most dangerous things that he does will have plenty of room to try to step in. i m not trying to minimize what i see donald trump doing. i think what he was doing at the end of his first term is where it will pick up the day he is inaugurated and it is serious. when you say the republic itself will fall like the roman republic well, really? people think donald trump is equal to julius caesar? give me a break. he may not be, but this time around he won t have the safety guards of you, h.r. mcmaster, the list goes on. are you concerned about the people that are in his current orbit and what they are capable of doing and how they can influence him? yes, i think any administration in a second term does not attract the quality of people it does in the first for the very practical reason that the runway in the second term is shorter. trump will be a lame duck the minute he is sworn in and he has a lot of people around him. basically the people who stayed in the government after january 6 who were second and third rate at best. i think the bigger danger is that trump will insist on staffing a second term on personal loyalty to him above all. he is coming up with his decision for his vice presidential nominee and i think the two questions are, number one, do you think the 2020 election was stolen? and number two, if i told you in a similar situation to do what i told mike pence to do, would you do it? unless the answer to both questions is yes, then that person will not be considered for vice president. i think you will see something similar in all of the key positions. that is a very dangerous circumstance and to the extent the senate republicans included take the confirmation process seriously. if they see people who are more loyal to donald trump than they are to the constitution, that alone is grounds against them. is there a certain person that you see as highly dangerous who you are worried about? i would not want to give any of them academy awards. i think there are bright people including people in the house and senate who have joined this cult of personality and the smarter they are, the more dangerous they are. you are giving us some very serious warnings and things to take seriously, but something i m going to say is not that serious. a write in vote. this election is going to be joe biden or donald trump. in 2020 you wrote in dick cheney. you said you would do it again. are you really giving a clear and honest warning if you are willing to do another right in that won t help anything? look, i bought that argument in 2016 when hillary clinton ran against trump and i voted for trump in 2016. hillary and bill were a year ahead of me in law school and i like to say i ve been burdened with them a lot longer than the rest of the country. after working for trump i could not vote for him, but i did not vote for joe biden in 2020 and won t this year because i don t think he is fit to be president either, for different reasons. when you have two people who don t cross the bar of acceptability, i think it is legitimate to cast a protest vote. a lot of republicans told me a year ago that they would not vote for trump. that they will look at biden and choose what they considered to be the lesser of two evils and i hear other republicans and some democrats say the opposite. it is an unhappy time for america when these are the two people we nominated and it will be a bad four years for america, whichever of them wins. then are these concerns that you have that serious? writing somebody and who won t when is not serious. it s a protest vote. if i didn t vote for anybody this time it would be a protest vote as well. i m not going to vote for someone i think is not qualified, not fit for the office. i m not going to vote for people whose principles i don t agree with. ambassador, think you for joining me today. pleasure to meet you. glad to do it. when we return, how hunter biden s guilty verdict could impact his father s reelection campaign, especially with the first debate two weeks away. when the 11th hour continues. ffects, including ketoacidosis that may be fatal, dehydration, urinary tract, or genital yeast infections, and low blood sugar. a rare, life-threatening bacterial infection in the skin of the perineum could occur. stop taking farxiga and call your doctor right away if you have symptoms of this infection, an allergic reaction, or ketoacidosis. far-xi-ga you know what s brilliant? 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they can t, stephanie and i think we are already seeing previews of how they will contort themselves and make the reach that, oh no, this hunter biden verdict is unique in and of itself. completely different from what is happening to trump and that is not the reality. i think republicans will still try to say that even though it has been demonstrated that they have nothing to gain here. they tried and failed repeatedly to use hunter biden as a political football and the responses today show that they fully understand that it is nothing for them to win here. i think we were describing trump statement as a distraction. so i don t expect them to stop at that, right? they will keep with the trump lies, but when we look at this broadly we have to keep in mind that that is not going to have an impact in the selection. throughout the afternoon we ve heard it repeated that hunter biden is not running for election, donald trump is. we ve also heard the contrast from president biden who fully says he accepts the jury decision. he respects the justice system, compared to trump saying it is rigged and i think that is a contrast that will be replayed again and again and that will be something that captures voters attention more than the verdict specifically on hunter biden. hunter biden is a one off. menendez s legal bills would disagree. the president has started to use the term, convicted felon, calling trump that over and over. now that his son is in that camp, does it make it harder for him to do that? no, because he is not talking about his son. he s talking about the guy running against him to be the next president of the united states. hunter is not running for anything. hunter is taking care of business and will have another casey will have to deal with, just as donald trump is taking care of his business and will have three or four other cases to deal with. from the president s perspective it is smart politics to call the thing what it is. why would you run away from that? honestly he is a convicted felon. we watched our friends on this network countdown each count, one through 34. i think for the biden team it is an opportunity for them to lean into the politics and this is a political campaign. what candidate in the country, in the world for that matter, would not use this kind of weakness that is self-imposed by his opponent? remember this is all because of what donald trump did. joe biden was not in that hotel room with stormy daniels. donald trump was. the reality of it is, that is the reality. that s the truth. those are the facts and why not talk about it when the moment presents itself? judging when and exactly how each time may be a matter of some decision, but lean into it and call the thing what it is. i want to talk about somebody else that talks about politics today in the presidential race. a republican we don t hear from often, paul ryan, he was on fox news and here is what he said. he said he is a populist and authoritarian narcissist. it is a job that rick myers the kind of character he just does not have. that s pretty strong. that s the way i feel. i agree with that. i don t support biden, either. i think his policies are terrible. a lot of republicans make this argument. we heard john bolton saying basically the same thing on the show. michael, what is your response to that? my response is okay. to a certain extent, to each his own, but at a certain point it has to become about the country. going back to your discussion with john bolton, the reality is this is a big deal. you have an individual who is running for president who says he wants to be a dictator. i don t know. that is not what we do or have done. that is not what we are inclined towards. yet we may have had folks in america who danced with this idea back in the 30s. and in the 1950s with john birch society, but leaders in this country and ultimately the american people said that is not who we are. i am not forsaking the future of my kids and my grandkids to some fool who wants to be a dictator, because i know what history has taught me about dictatorships and that is not who we are. so at a certain point the paul ryan s and john bolton s may sit and go, i can t do that. but what i am asking my fellow republicans to do and center- right voters to do is think about the country for once. think about the bigger issue. think about your kids and the importance of this. there are a lot of things about the biden administration policies i could disagree with all day long, but they are not a threat to my freedom. they are not a threat to my family and my future. i get up every morning and have that fight with the administration. i can t have that fight with thugs from a former dictator knocking on my door. i m at a disadvantage there as an american citizen. so there are some important points to be made about this election. i happen to think that is one of them. i hope paul ryan and others will come around and at the end of the day what they do in the privacy of the voting booth is their business, despite what they may say publicly. i m guessing right now mitch mcconnell is tucked into his bed, nodding and agreeing with everything michael is saying. in public he is going to be welcoming donald trump later this week along with fellow senate republicans. how do you think this will go? these two men have not met in person since 2020. they may loathe each other, but they both love power. they both love authority and that is one reason they will continue to do the public display. i want to go back to something michael said that connected the dots in the way that john bolton couldn t. understanding that threat is important because what bolton could not commit to is that trump is a threat to our democracy. it was jarring to me to hear that interview in a post january 6 reality, in an effort to undermine the 2020 election results reality, where trump still refuses to accept those results and his supporters refused to proactively accept the 2024 results and to claim he is not a threat to democracy. it shows a disconnect that again, it aligns with some of the other republican talking points that are completely not based in reality and outlandish. connecting the dots for the american public is critical and i appreciate that the biden campaign has started their outreach campaign to the never trump republicans and crafting a national narrative that will appeal across partisan lines. because understanding the threats. understanding the components of project 2025 is going to be mobilizing factors in the selection. juanita, michael, i appreciate the two of you being here. great to see you both. when we return, pride under attack. we talk about the growing hostility ahead of pride month with the head of glaad when the 11th hour continues. inu i asked my doctor about treating my td, and learned about ingrezza. ingrezza ingrezza is clinically proven for reducing td. most people saw results in just two weeks. people taking ingrezza can stay on most mental health meds. only number-one prescribed ingrezza has simple dosing for td: always one pill, once daily. ingrezza can cause depression, suicidal thoughts, or actions in patients with huntington s disease. pay close attention to and call your doctor if you become depressed, have sudden changes in mood, behaviors, feelings, or have thoughts of suicide. don t take ingrezza if you re allergic to its ingredients. ingrezza may cause serious side effects, including angioedema, potential heart rhythm problems, and abnormal movements. report fevers, stiff muscles, or problems thinking as these may be life threatening. sleepiness is the most common side effect. take control by asking your doctor about ingrezza. ingrezza chewy, a citi client, uses citi s financial expertise to help drive its growth and keep its supply chain moving, so more pet parents can get everything they need. right when they need it. keeping more pets, and families, happy. for the love of moving our clients forward. for the love of progress. the chances of a plane crash 1 in 11 million. you re not going to finish those salted nuts, right? 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here to discuss, sarah kate ellis, president and ceo of glaad. what are we seeing here? i think it has been building. what we have seen the past couple of years is this intensity against our community from politician, from right wing politicians. there have been over 500lgbt bills proposed. only 37 have passed at the state level across the country. the damage, though, is done as soon as those bills are proposed. what the politicians do are filling people with rhetoric, misinformation, and lies about our community. and it is fueling hate. just in the past month, we have seen over 30 attacks on our community. this past weekend, we saw three bomb threats. it is a direct line coming from the anti-lgbtq activists and mostly politicians. we also have companies now. now officially saying no to pride, but quietly pulling back support. why is this happening? i m not seeing that as much. i am seeing that headline. i work with over 300 fortune 500 countries and they are actually not pulling back. i think as a result from last year s pride and the bruhaha over bud light and target. what they are doing is integrating pride more into their every day. taking a 365 day approach versus putting all of their eggs in one basket. i am seeing an increase in commitment. i will tell you why that is. 30% of the next generation are lgbtq. 80% of the next generation identify as allies to the community. if you are a consumer business in america, you need to step up your ally ship. they realize that what they are trying to do is do it in really thoughtful ways. how much does misinformation fuel all of this? i have seen why does pride get a month. while others get a day. we have month that s support women, african americans, aapi. disability rights. where does the misinformation come from that almost makes lgbtq a target of things that are not even based in truth? we have a long history of our community being politicized. it has been going on for decades. where it is being fueled now though is through social media. this is a half of trolls that know how to exploit the social media platforms that spread these lies and misinformation. in fact, at glaad, we do an annual report on social media platforms for the safety of our community. and all of them failed. all the major ones failed. a piece of that we are unsafe is that they spread these lies and misinformation. and then it makes it to mainstream media. and it is absolute nonsense. that is why it is our job to tell the truth every night. it is always a pleasure to see you. thank you for joining us. happy pride month. be right back after a quick break. ack after a quick break. at what cost? turn shipping to your advantage. with low cost ground shipping from the united states postal service. ava: i was just feeling sick. and it was the worst day. mom was crying. i was sad. colton: i was diagnosed with rhabdomyosarcoma. brett: once we got the first initial hit, it was just straight tears, sickness in your stomach, just don t want to get up out of bed. joe: there s always that saying, well, you ve got to look on the bright side of things. tell me what the bright side of childhood cancer is. lakesha: it s a long road. it s hard. but saint jude has gotten us through it. narrator: saint jude children s research hospital works day after day to find cures and save the lives of children with cancer and other life-threatening diseases. thanks to generous donors like you, families never receive a bill from saint jude for treatment, travel, housing, or food, so they can focus on helping their child live. ashley: without all of those donations, saint jude would not be able to do all of the exceptional work that they do. narrator: for just $19 a month, you ll help us continue the life-saving research and treatment these kids need. tiffany: no matter if it s a big business or just the grandmother that donates once a month, they are changing people s lives. and that s a big deal. narrator: join with your debit or credit card right now, and we ll send you this saint jude t-shirt that you can proudly wear to show your support. nicole: our family is forever grateful for donations big and small because it s completely changed our lives and it s given us a second chance. elizabeth stewart: saint jude s not going to stop until every single kid gets that chance to walk out of the doors of this hospital cancer-free. narrator: please, don t wait. call, go online, or scan the qr code below right now. 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weeks. the israelis want a campaign. with lebanon even with yemen, we have seen the increased tensions. deploying troops and naval forces. none of that will stop until there is a cease-fire in gaza. s almost there is a line drawn, diplomacy on any of these friends continue. the biden administration s credit has been cleared. they don t want to see a war but it is not up to them as we have seen with the israelis on the hostage cease-fire deal as well. so i think the risk is extremely high. and lebanon is the war of another magnitude. thank you so much. . there is a lot going on tonight. the former president of the united states and presumptive republican nominee had a meeting with the probation officer today, which i guess is the sort of thing we just have to get use to seeing these days. we will talk about what may have come up during the meeting and how it could impact his sentencing coming up in a month. pennsylvania governor josh schapiro was going to join me to talk about one of the biggest political questions of the moment. how should joe biden and democrats be talking about trump s conviction and how much? we will start with the supreme court. in a mountain of ethics scandals that just got bigger, and just get bigger because of a woman named lauren winsor. in case you don t know who she is, she is a progressive activist known to approach her public and figures and pretend she is an ally, statements and then record her targets making candid comments. comments recorded by lauren winsor at the supreme court historical society s annual dinner earlier this month, the supreme court justice samuel alito offered his assessment of the political and ideological struggle in america. i don t know that we can negotiate with the left in the way that needs to happen for the polarization to end. i think that it is a matter of, like, winning. i think your probably right. on one side of the other, one side or the other is going to win. i don t know. i mean, there can be a way of working, a way of living together peacefully, but it s difficult, you know, because there are differences on fundamental things that really can t be compromised. they really can t be compromised. so it s not like you can split the difference. one side or the other is going to win. now heard in a vacuum by someone, those comments may not seem particularly striking. but remember samuel alito is one of nine justices on the supreme court. the highest court in our country. it is supposed to conduct itself with utmost fairness and impartiality in interpreting our constitution and adjudicating the laws. and one of the justices, samuel alito, you just heard him, as telling a stranger at a crowded event, that he believes that one political side is going to win. that there is no place for compromised. and for anyone who has followed samuel alito s time on the court, there is no secret to what side the justice firm and thinks he is on. look at the past few weeks. he has refused to recuse himself from a generous six case in the trump immunity case sitting before the court currently. even after reports that his homes displayed flights with right wing political symbolism including an upside down american flag in the days after january 6th. samuel alito, who built a reputation over the course of years, has been tough on crime and generally unser but that it to criminal defendants and also has a newfound empathy for generally six defendants of all people and donald trump. during or go arguments in two cases. take for example, the case of a january 6th defendant. sim allele used costumes the justice department to question people in the capital attack. he suggested that if the court does not intervene, prosecutors could seek to use it against people involved in these will demonstrations like those that take place in a courtroom from time to time. but the protest is clearly not at all same as people are smashing windows and doors to invade the capital and causing members of congress and the republican vice president of the united states to flee for their lives. in the face of multiple ethics scandals, we have been talking about involving undisclosed gifts from her publican mega- donors to members of the supreme court, samuel alito has been unapologetic telling the wall street journal late last year that the quote no provision in the constitution gives congress the authority to regulate the supreme court period. look, fairness and impartiality in both appearance and action are the principles judges are supposed to follow. especially in the highest court of the land. and at least at some point, samuel alito knew that. take a listen to an answer from his confirmation hearing back in 2006. to believe there is any room for a judge s own value or personal beliefs when he or she interprets the constitution? judges have to be careful not to inject their own views into the interpretation of the constitution. and for that matter, into the interpretation of statutes. that is not the job we are given. that is not the authority we are given. that is not the authority we are given. it is not the job we are given. alito knows or at least knew then what his job entailed. and despite all the actions and statements, he also apparently can t stand those who claim he is not living up to those standards. as he told the wall street journal, everyone is free to express disagreement with our decisions and to criticize our reasoning as they see fit. but saying or implying that the court is becoming an illegitimate institution or questioning our integrity cross is an important line. see, justice alito wants to be revered as an impartial judge. just call balls and strikes as they are supposed to. but as this new tape and his time on the bench have shown, especially over the last several weeks and months, he is actually more of a player, actively engaged in one side s struggle to win. so is giving us every reason to expect this from him, given all the actions. it also doesn t mean it is something we should or need to accept. this is the former president of the naacp legal defense fund and joins me now. i always want to know what you are thinking. but as i listen to these tapes today, i wanted to know, what is share anable thinking. we talk to a becoming two things. how big of a deal is this? i think it s a big deal. i think it s a big deal in the cumulative sense and as you point out in your opening, this is not a colloquy that floats around in the air that is surrounded by plenty of context. we have seen all these statements from justice alito, not only in his decisions but when he went to rome after the dobbs decision. we heard him in very similar ways. what is it that is disturbing about this particular excerpt of the conversation? i think there are two things. one, i think is the way in which he was bantering back and forth with this woman who he did know was taping him in a way that suggested sympathy to her position. she was saying some pretty extreme things. probably the worst of it is when she said that we have to work to move this country back toward godliness. and he said, i agree with you. to me, that is just a very shocking statement. i don t think that is his charge as a supreme court justice to suggest that he believes the country needs to move toward godliness. she spoke often of what it was like in the past and that we need to return to some period in which things were more moral pick and he was agreeing with her. i don t know what period they were referring to. were they referring to a period in which there was much more religious talk in american life but there was also talk about keeping black people out of schools? what was the time period? i think the reason this is important is because the standard is a reasonable person standard. and justice alito refused to recuse himself from a variety of cases. said it is because a reasonable person, knowing all the facts of that is what he said about the flight controversy. but when we probe, we realize we don t know all the facts and the facts he has told us are not necessarily that accurate facts. we learned that from the flag flying issue when justice alito gave us a timeline that is not up. now, the reasonable person would reasonably believe perhaps that this justice was not impartial and that is the standard for recusal. but we will never get there unless parties actually file motions to recuse and that is i am hoping that this will show the united states, which is the party and the trump privilege case and others, that they have to have the courage to demand that these justices come forward in the context of recusal practice and explain themselves. we are not going to get it from sending letters to the justices we are not going to get it from having the justices just recuse themselves because they won t do it. we need to get really serious. and of course we need hearing from the senate judiciary committee so we can get to the bottom of this. it is quite serious. quite disturbing. quite alarming. and it is not a legitimate question the legitimacy of the court we have had this barrage of across the line conduct and misstatements and disclosures that would call into question the impartiality of any court. one of the things that was striking to me too is how he blames the erosion of trust in the court. what he blames it on. he blames it on all sorts of things. i was reminded of this today. he said this in 2023. and then talk to you about it on the other side. it is easy to blame the media. but i do blame them because they do nothing but criticize us. it is pretty rich, given his actions in his own words. it is not the first time he blame somebody else. his wife. everyone attacking him. what is that about? you were talking about accountability. people watching, what should they be doing if they are just outraged about this as well? i find this just really mortifying. and embarrassed for the court. we hear it with clarence thomas as well when he talks about the nastiness in washington d.c. and we hear it with alito. it is the media that eroded trust in the supreme court. no, it is the supreme court that eroded trust in the supreme court. in this kind of teenage refusal to take responsibility for their own actions is really incredibly alarming and disturbing and i put that at the feet of chief justice roberts. he is running the court. if i were running in institution and something extraordinary happens and like what happened in the dobbs case, which is something that never happened before in the history of the court, and a decision was leaked out to the public, i wouldn t just be trying to get to the bottom of who leaked it as vigorously as possible. i would want to understand what i created or what we created in our culture that encouraged such a breach of culture and protocol. all of these things should require the court to self reflect. to look at themselves. why do you have a justice on the court like clarence thomas who is not making the appropriate disclosures? we know they are appropriate because he is making them now that he has been found out. this has nothing to do with the media. the media is doing its job. in fact, the media has often been quite kind to the supreme court including around this flag issue which we had not heard about until three years late. it is not the media. these justices have to grow up and stop being stubborn teenagers and take responsibility for their own actions. this is where the leadership of the chief comes in here and when the chief allows a code of conduct, a voluntary code, as he allowed several months ago, a code so much more weak than the code that holds all other federal judges, he is essentially allowing and creating this culture of impunity in which they create rules that accommodate the actions they have already taken. so we have a real problem, ethical problem on the supreme court appeared to be honest with you, i blame us. i blame congress. we have failed. we have counted on the good behavior and the norms of the supreme court instead of putting in place real rules that they have to follow. and congress does have the power to be able to issue a code of ethics for the united states supreme court and they should do so. we cannot blame this just on the justices. we can t blame it on trump. we can t blame it on anything else but our believes that norms were enough. they are not enough as we are learning across the united states government and we have to get serious about what kinds of protections we need in place for the integrity of our nation s highest court. a lot of homework, including for chief justice roberts. thank you as always for joining me this evening. really appreciate it. coming up, governor josh shapiro joins me live to talk about donald trump s promises of revenge. first, the nominee had a meeting with his probation officer today. we will tell you what he was likely asked about and how it could affect his sentencing. christie greenberg is a former deputy chief of the criminal division in the southern district of new york and joins me in 60 seconds. seconds. let s get the rest of these plants in. organic soil from miracle-gro has grown me the best garden i have ever had. good soil, and you get good results. this soil will blow you away. it s the martha stewart of soil. today, donald trump met with the probation officer had of his sentencing for his 34 felony convictions in new york city. and the biden campaign cochair reminded me yesterday that this is one of those times where we need to pause and reflect on the extraordinary moment we are in. can we just stop on that fact. i will talk about the debate and a second. a guy that wants to be president of the united states first test to go sit down with his probation officer. that is just an astounding statement that sometimes people walk by. i don t think most americans are going to walk by that. he is completely right. we cannot just breeze by this stuff. trump s probation interview today happened virtually from mar-a-lago which is not typical. these meetings typically happen in person. but he is not a typical person who was just convicted either. but the interview itself is standard procedure for anyone convicted of a felony in new york. and one standard question trump may have been asked is whether he associates with criminals. you know, other convicted felons like steve bannon and oliver stone and his other buddies. we should not forget how extraordinary this moment is. kristi greenberg is the former deputy chief of the criminal division in the southern district of new york and joins me now. thank you so much. you tweeted today. i will start there. that trump would try to convince the probation officer not to recommend a jail sentence. but you said probation should reject the argument. how does that conversation exactly go down during one of these meetings? i think what you probably saw this was just 30 minutes. a short interview. you probably saw todd blanche taking the lead to try to highlight positive aspects of donald trump s character that they think or mitigating circumstances and things that they think will show he is amenable to supervision. so they will say, look, this criminal conduct which he denies, there is no victim here. but they need to look closer. we are victims. the american people are victims, not getting information that he was paying off a pornography start to make sure she didn t share that could have affected the election outcome. other things i think he will focus on are, i was the former president of the united states. i performed a great public service and you should take that into account. but it is also aggravating in the circumstance because he committed some of this crime like signing the checks to reimburse michael cohen right in the oval office. you could argue that. and he will point to the fact that he is a first-time offender. you know who else is a first- time offender? michael cohen, and he got sentenced to jail for the same conduct. allen weisselberg is essentially the same old one year apart. a lot of the factors that i expect todd blanche tried to highlight today in his interview, really it is going to be on the prosecutors to make their case separately to the probation office in presenting the fact that the trial record shows all the gag order violations and to show he is not following the court orders and he certainly won t follow the orders of probation. a lot of things to argue. i wanted to ask you, i mentioned one of the standard lines of questioning during one of these probation meetings. whether or not the person convicted of a felony associates with criminals. trump has a number of people who happen to fall into that category. i presume he is going to say no. i don t know what he said but what happens if he does associate with convicted criminals? are there repercussions? there are. there if he were sentenced to probation, there would be conditions to that probation term. among them is he cannot associate with other convicted felons. and so, steve bannon for example, is somebody that was convicted for criminal contempt charge and it has a trial that will start in a few months before the judge on a separate fraud case. with someone like that, someone who he has not pardoned because he is pardoned a number of his other criminal associates, for someone he is not pardoned, i would think he would not be able to associate. these are people that like we are involved with his campaign and that he would want to associate with. so we figure he will try to do that through intermediaries if he is sentenced to probation. quite a time to be alive, kristi greenberg. thank you for explaining this to us. that is always helping us to understand. i appreciate it. donald trump is not going to be able to append democracy on his own. he will need help. and a lot of help is available. we will introduce you to someone who could be his chief of staff and who has chilling plans for a second term. later, governor josh shapiro joins me to talk about all the ways the rule of law will be on the ballot in 2024. we are back after a quick break. so i can feel and see that my lines have gotten deeper just from a year out in the sun. i m still marie and i got botox® cosmetic. i did not want a dramatic change. i wanted something subtle. and i m really, really happy with the results. it s still me, but with fewer lines. botox® cosmetic is fda approved to temporarily make frown lines, crow s feet, and forehead lines look better. the effects of botox® cosmetic may spread hours to weeks after injection, causing serious symptoms. alert your doctor right away as difficulty swallowing, speaking, breathing, eye problems, or muscle weakness may be a sign of a life-threatening condition. do not receive botox® cosmetic if you have a skin infection. side effects may include allergic reactions, injection site pain, headache, eyebrow, eyelid drooping, and eyelid swelling. tell your doctor about your medical history, muscle or nerve conditions, and medications, including botulinum toxins as these may increase the risk of serious side effects. see for yourself at botoxcosmetic.com. they say we should stop eating so much meat. as these may increase the risk of serious side effects. so we made meat out of plants. because we aren t quitters. impossible. we re solving the meat problem with more meat. i bought the team! kevin.? 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every d.a. starting investigations right now? when donald trump gets elected, should he lock them up? no question. should there be a list of democrats that go to jail? 100%. it is a terrible path they are leading us to. and it is very possible that it is going to have to happen to them. in that description, as you just heard, it is all about karma. it is an eye for an eye. fighting fire with fire. that is the story they are telling over and over again. and it is one that far too many headliners are running with. as a near public had, in the media, the story tends to be framed as follows. will trump seek revenge for his legal travails or won t he? . it implies that he is bound to do to democrats what was done to him. you see, obviously, there is a big difference between what happens to trump and what he is promising to do to democrats or anybody who he is mad at. despite with the former president and his allies claim, trump was legitimately investigated, indicted, tried and convicted unanimously by a jury of his peers. 12 everyday americans. there was a legal basis and evidence for all of it. all presented during a six-week trial. not trying to hold people accountable for actual wrongdoing but reshape the american justice system and make it a political tool to go after democrats or anyone who has done trump wrong. political prosecutions were a major goal for the maga movement long before trump got indicted or convicted. i was reminded of this this week in. the washington post published an incredibly eye popping piece on the influential figure in trump s orbit that you might not be familiar with. for what it is worth, i had never heard of him either. the former director of the office of management and budget. and his name is russ vote. according to the piece, he is a potential chief of staff for a second trump term and could wield a lot of power. a self-proclaimed christian nationalist to crafted parts of the heritage foundation s project 2025 on how to remake the executive branch a trump presidency. then back in september of 2022, before trump got indicted or enter the presidential race, he wrote an essay saying that the left to drive america into a post- constitutional moment. saying it was time for the right to reinterpret the constitution and a radical new way. he encouraged conservatives to throw off precedents and legal paradigms that have wrongly developed over the last 200 years. and their place according to the post, he laid out plans for donald trump to deploy the military for civil unrest and use more control over the justice department and assert the power to hold congressional appropriations. that is just on trump s first day back in office. let s pause on that. is not calling for accountability through due process of the law to hold people accountable. he wants to reshape the system for the purpose of punishing trump s perceived enemies. last year, he told the heritage foundation crowd that the department of justice is not an independent agency. and if anyone brings up in a policy meeting in the white house, i want them out of the meeting. here s the larger picture. outside of the week to week news cycle and the latest republican reactions, the republican line of fight fire with fire that you hear over and over again is really just cover. framing a plan to overhaul the justice system and executive branch at large. and by the way, this plan completely predates trump s convictions and indictments and what he had in mind all along. pennsylvania governor josh shapiro is standing by and join say next. we are back after a quick break. join cken, cr ies all wrapped up these wrapare amaz people can hear my thoughts? 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there is a trial and a jury finds someone innocent or guilty? or do we prefer a country where he president uses the justice department as his personal law firm? are we okay with the current system where every american is accountable to the same set of laws? or do we prefer a country where the president can just prosecute whomever he chooses simply because he does not like them? the election will be about a lot of things no question. but that is definitely one of them. joining me now is pennsylvania governor josh shapiro. he was previously the state s attorney general. i m grateful you are here with me. i want to start with what i laid out in the earlier block. basically, this idea that donald trump and his allies are bowing what they are telling supporters. simply fighting fire with fire. you are doing something with our guy and we are going to go back to you. but to me, when you look at the specifics of the plan, it feels like it is not exactly the right description. it is not just revenge but a plan in my view to reshape the system and go after their enemies. and last week, you said something that really struck me. you said i m scared to death if he is in charge with the system. is a strong statement. i want to see what you anticipate or expect. what worries you about what could happen to the system? i m deeply concerned by the system. it is why we should not put the country at risk by putting donald trump back in charge of the justice system or back in charge of the military. donald trump came out of those 34 convictions doing what he always does when he gets in legal trouble. kind of a cut and paste job, if you will. and a room with us well from my time as attorney general. he complains. he bemoans the fact that he lost and he makes up excuses and tries to pipit away from personal responsibility. remember, i was attorney general in pennsylvania where he and his cronies and allies took us to court 43 different times to try to stop certain people from voting and stop the votes from being cast. by the way, he went 0-43. we went 43-0 unprotected the rule of law and the will of the people. and now donald trump wants to come back. as he said, exact revenge. the idea he would be put in charge of the justice system and have people surrounding him that that should scare all americans. it is another example of the kind of chaos he would inflict on the country if he was given the opportunity to lead this nation. we have always been a nation that respects the rule of law and respects the institutions. donald trump has tried to undermine our faith in one another and our faith in the institutions. we didn t let him get away with it in 2020 and i hope and pray we won t let him get away with it in 2024. i will be doing everything in my political power here in pennsylvania to ensure he is not successful and the institutions stand and hold. let me ask you about something you just alluded to which is the takeover of the justice system. i think people hear that and they think it is the reshuffling of the government and what does it actually mean? i talked about this influential figure apparently and trump residence world. and could end of being his chief of staff of for trump was reelected. who knows? this is a man who openly says he does not believe the department of justice is an independent agency. i just want to ask you, what is the danger of that quick sometimes i think it feels like just bureaucracy in washington but it is much more than that. it is a lot more than bureaucracy. dangerous if he controls a bureaucracy as well. think about the justice department. he would have the power to criminally prosecute people who didn t do anything wrong but are just his enemies. go after companies that he disagreed with the products they are selling or the manner in which they are conducting themselves and to use the justice department to strip away people s liberties, rights and freedoms and undermine the constitution. ignore the courts and essentially just have his way with good people of this nation. and it should scare the hell out of everybody. remember in 2016 ever donald trump won and then took office in 2017, he and most people around him did not know what the hell they were doing and there were still a few people around him that provided some guardrails for his chaotic conduct. now those people that might provide the guardrails are gone and a lot of the dangerous people around him know how the bureaucracy works. they know how the justice system works. they know how the military works. and if he is given the opportunity to lead this nation again with those people around him, who want to do danger and take away your fundamental freedoms, that should scare the hell out of everybody and that is not the kind of chaos we want in this country. it is such an important point. it is the people that know how to manipulate and it is also the plans being written. a lot of the more online. keeping with the legal discussion here, i want to ask about the supreme court. at the top of the hour, we talked about the supreme court and specifically, justice samuel alito. and this audio come he agreed there should be a fight to return our country to a place of godliness. this comes after the reporting of a flag outside of his house that has been a symbol associated with january 6th and serious ethical scandals around justice thomas and a lot of things. it feels like there is a credibility crisis for the supreme court. i just want to ask you, what is the solution here? remember, this is the court that donald trump packed in order to take away woman s right to choose. in order to make my daughter and other women out there have fewer rights today then they were born with. so this is purposeful on donald trump residence part, to pack the court with these people that want to restrict our freedom. people that have their own agendas. and justice alito, samuel alito, is showing his agenda by the way he flies his flags and apparently the way he runs his mouth as well. what the american people need to do is take that into consideration when they go vote this november. do you really want to give donald trump the ability to appoint more samuel alito as opposed to the court or more clarence thomas is to the court. you want to give him the ability to put more people on the court who will take away our fundamental freedoms? remember that justice thomas wrote that abortion is just the beginning. the very fundamental reasoning or foundation or reasoning they used to overturn roe v wade could be applied in other ways. it could be used to restrict your ability to marry who you love or undermine your ability to be able to go out and take the medications that you and your doctor want you to take. i really fear that this was just the beginning. and if donald trump is given the ability to lead this nation again and put more of those kinds of justices on the court, it will not only set us back for four years but it will set us back for 40 years. the stakes are so high in the selection. and while donald trump and joe biden s names are on the ballot, this is a binary choice. and don t let anybody tell you anything else. there a bunch of randoms on the ballot that have no chance of winning. this is a binary choice between donald trump and joe biden. it is not about those two. it is the kind of country want for ourselves. it is whether we value freedom and care about our institutions and whether we believe we have to move forward to brighter days or whether we will go back to a very dark time. this election is a referendum and a reflection on all of us. and we have a responsibility to turn out and to get others to turn out who will stand up against the kind of extremism we have seen on the supreme court and in the white house with donald trump and instead stand up for freedom and for fundamental values as americans and continue to move our country forward. before we let you go, i have to ask you about pennsylvania. you know the politics of your state. you know them extremely well. we have seen it. it has not been that long since the convictions. we have seen a little bit of impact in the polls. there are a lot of things that will be on the ballot and on voter mines. as you are talking to voters and knowing your state as you do, you think trump s conviction will be something that helps people to decide who are on the fence at this state? i don t know how that conviction will ultimately play out. i know the people of pennsylvania, they care a lot about four basic things. they want good schools. they want safe communities. they want economic opportunities. and they want their freedoms to be protected. i think they want to be led by someone who is honest and decent. someone who actually is on their side like joe biden. all they hear from donald trump is a whole bunch of whining about this country and i think donald trump has to quit whining. quit trying to divide us. we are producing more energy than anyone before the in this nation. we have the strongest economy in the world and we are beating china for the first time in decades. more people went to work this morning in america than any other time in our nation s history. i have a message to donald trump and all of his negativity and whining, stop shit talking america. this is the greatest country on earth and it is time we start acting like it. the good people of pennsylvania understand this is a great country. they understand we have a lot going for us. and we have time to continue this path of progress that joe biden has laid out and not go back to a negative time. and not listen to the whining of the former president and instead, focus on a positive future for all of us. quit your whining. it is a good message. thank you so much governor schapiro. i always enjoy talking to you. i appreciate it. we will be right back after a quick b break. ack it himmune fight cancer in 2 different ways. opdivo and yervoy can cause your immune system to harm healthy parts of your body during and after treatment. these problems can be severe and lead to death. see your doctor right away if you have a cough; chest pain; shortness of breath; irregular heartbeat; diarrhea; constipation; severe stomach pain; severe nausea or vomiting; dizziness; fainting; eye problems; extreme tiredness; changes in appetite, thirst or urine; rash; itching; confusion; memory problems; muscle pain or weakness; joint pain; flushing; or fever. these are not all the possible side effects. problems can occur together and more often when opdivo is used with yervoy. tell your doctor about all medical conditions including immune or nervous system problems, if you ve had or plan to have an organ or stem cell transplant, or received chest radiation. your search for 2 immunotherapies starts here. ask your doctor about opdivo plus yervoy. a chance to live longer. first, we did the impossible. then, you ate so many of the impossible that we completely ran out. and now. they re backk! the footlong cookie is back at subway! organic soil from miracle-gro has grown me the best garden i have ever had. good soil, and you get good results. look at that! the broccoli was fantastic. that broccoli! i think some of them were six, seven pounds. new centrum menopause supplements help unpause life when symptoms pause it. with a multivitamin plus hot flash support. 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( ) and enxtra for focus and clarity. centrum, powered by clinically studied ingredients. we don t even know yet how any americans will be moved by donald trump s conviction when it is said and done. it is only a couple weeks old. but there early signs that the verdict may be swaying some former trump voters. here s what we heard from some trump voters in a focus group. if they violate the law, then they should be subject to exactly the same rules that all of us are expected to abide to. pay the penalty for the crime. we all know what is going to happen. they will negotiate and he is not going to serve any time. but he will get more time on television. just to underscore, those are a couple of two time trump voters that are essentially saying, lock him up. the publisher of the executive accountability project and conducted the focus group he just heard. dan pfeiffer is the former communications director for barack obama. they are both joining me now. we only played one clip of your great focus groups but that was the two time trump voters that want trump to be held accountable it sounds like. did you get this sense, because the big leap here is the one who to be held accountable, but are they just turned off by trump? or the whale will they just vote for biden instead? or do we know that by your conversations? in this particular group, five out of nine of them, trump voters, five of them were going to vote for biden. i think there are a lot of people that think, somebody that voted for donald trump twice, it seems like a long shot to get them to vote for biden. but i think it is important to understand that for a section of voters who kind of held their nose and voted for donald trump twice and then saw what happened on january 6th, saw donald trump s claims and lies about the election, they were already pretty that was sort of a red line for them. they were pretty far out. what the conviction does is it moves them from and i hear this a lot from a two time trump voters who were upset. saying, i m not going to leave it blank. it got them to a place where they said, this guy is totally unfit to be in the white house. i will vote for biden, not because i want to vote for biden and not because i want to vote for a democrat but because i will vote for anybody that will keep donald trump out of the white house because he is that dangerous. you are always in the selection, especially with the swing voters or the right. for them, you are not building it pro joe biden coalition but an anti-trump coalition. and as donald trump gets back into people s consciousness which is a lot of what is happening with the conviction, people are remembering, yeah, i don t like that guy. you are seeing a shift in voters were before, they were focused on negative things they thought about biden and now they are remembering the negative things they don t like about trump. it is so interesting to watch the focus groups and listen to you talk about them. you know well and i know well that they are big moments in campaigns. we have also seen the campaign sharpening rhetoric around the convictions. and there is a difference between what the campaign says and what michael tyler is saying and what the candidates say. when you look at the debate coming up, is a couple weeks from now, what should the president be saying? he is trying to appeal to the voters and to base voters. what is the right framing of language? the conviction is the elephant in the room. you have to talk about it. and you also don t get in a situation where you would just call him a convicted felon as many times as possible and try to win on points. the conviction is the critical data point in the story that a lot of the polling and focus group say we should be telling about trump which is that he is in this for himself. is running for office to protect himself from further legal jeopardy to help himself and his rich friends and to bring revenge to his enemies. it was that exact attitude, that me first attitude, that got him in this trouble to begin with. you have to take the conviction. this moment that actually caused people to brave out of their anti- politics bubble for a few minutes and pay attention to this race and then use that to tell the more broad story. you can do that in a debate over and over again and do it in a disciplined, calm falls way that is not allowed trump to drag you down into the mud. that makes a huge amount of sense to me. i wanted to ask you a similar version of the story. there are a couple of audiences biden has to appeal to. of these people you talk to and focus groups, is there anything president biden could say about the convictions that would turn them off? is there anything that is a trigger for them about it? when it comes to the swing voters, it is not just what he says but how he says it. for them, they want to see that joe biden can do this job. you have to get people over this hump that they think joe biden is too old. because this is where trump kind of wins often times. he has big lunatic energy that make him seem just more vivacious or more aggressive. and sometimes when he listened to voters, they get into kind of a strong framing where they are like, trump is bad but strong and biden is okay but weak. biden has to show strength. i agree with dan. you can t just say conviction over and over again. but he does have to go on offense. in fact, the whole campaign right now has to go on offense. we are in the moment to push. we have to stop talking about democracy being at stake and the campaign has to campaign like democracy is at stake. joe biden has to show that he is ready to go. i think it is not just the name- calling of convicted felons but being able to say, this man is unfit and i m good to go. and you have to show that and not just tell it. state of the union energy. it is about the vibes i m hearing. i wanted to ask you about you encouraging people not to be stressed. everyone should find it and subscribe to it. we will talk about it next time. thank you both for joining me. we will be right back after a quick break. don t go anywhere! dangerous ladders. gutter muck. yuck. no wonder you hate cleaning your gutters. good thing there s leaffilter. our patented filter technology keeps leaves and debris out of your gutters forever. guaranteed. call 833- leaffilter to get started. and get the permanent gutter solution that ends clogs for good. they took the time to answer all of our questions. they really put us at ease. end clogged gutters for good. call 833.leaf.filter, or visit leaffilter.com today. with fastsigns, create striking custom visuals that inspire pride district-wide. fastsigns. make your statement. if you have chronic kidney disease you can reduce the risk of kidney failure with farxiga. because there are places you d like to be. farxiga can cause serious side effects, including ketoacidosis that may be fatal, dehydration, urinary tract, or genital yeast infections, and low blood sugar. a rare, life-threatening bacterial infection in the skin of the perineum could occur. stop taking farxiga and call your doctor right away if you have symptoms of this infection, an allergic reaction, or ketoacidosis. far-xi-ga when we say it ll be on time, they expect it to be on time. turn shipping to your advantage. keep those expectations with reliable ground shipping. thanks brandon. with usps ground advantage®. the rachel maddow show starts right now. hi, rachel. hi, yen. thanks very much. much appreciated. thanks to you at home. really happy to have you here. we have an interesting show for you tonight. particularly glad you re here for it. we re going to start a ways
Lies and potential corruption. his not conducting himself impartially. he is not honoring or following even the new ethics code passed in part to deal with him and what he s even saying when he chooses to weigh in is not believable. and at this point justice alito may not even believe himself. i not only comply would the ethical rules that are binding on federal judges and they re very strict but also what i did what i tried to do throughout my career as a judge, and that is to go beyond the letter of the ethics rules and to avoid any situation where there might be an ethical question raised. that s what he said on confirmation. that s utnot what he s doing, and led by this type of justice this court will clearly not heal itself. when we come back, merrick garland on the hill today. ack, k garland on the hill today.
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