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decifit when the employment crisis is over. >> you know, what -- >> that's what's always been done. jamie: monica, i -- >> bush did it. >> i agree that we should be stimulating the economy but you don't do it through government and you don't do it through government spending, you do it through the private sector and the way you it -- you get that done is lowering taxes across the board and tkraoeg lating. >> the tax rate has never been lower. jamie: allow me my curiosity. chris, did you bring up solyndra as an example of good green jobs initiative? >> i said that all have pushed for green jobs on the left and right. romney did it, issa did it in his own district, so people want the jobs in their distributes and point to failures when they happen. look, everything is not going to succeed. this is a new industry. we should be making to make -- working to make it better. >> green energy is such a rousing thing for this economy and so great for america then they should be able to compete in the
cost of health care, debt and decifits, and debt and decifits was the issue on which romney had the biggest advantage over obama, 15-point advantage. i think that's why you're seeing obama try to make the case he's a fiscal conservative but i don't think it's believable. martha: doug, when break that down, you're a pollster, obviously, so when you look at it looks like mitt romney does well among white voters, middle class and above. it looks like he's having a very tough time with ethnic voters, latino voters, african-american voters. that -- he has that work cut out for him. >> he suitly does, martha. he's trailing on who can do more on -- more for you and your family, trailing on being in touch and while there are concerns on debt and decifit, this is by no means a slam dunk that economic issues are going to work for governor romney and i think it's fiscal polices have not been fleshed out other than massive cuts in entitlements and massive tax cuts for the rich and i think people are genuinely confused, and the election
republicans have answered, as we heard in the sound bite, before with massive tax cuts, and i basically think that the republicans have been irresponsible. i think charles krauthammer overstates the case. martha: there's a lot of discussion out there, obviously, about the debt, the decifit, and the polls show us that people do care about bringing it down, they do want to see spending cuts, as well as some of these other idea that is are out there, christian, so is the president being genuine in what he's saying about his own record in his administration? >> no, not at all, unfortunately. if you look at 2009, which is the year they sort of talk about as this horrible year, it was an anomaly, we had to have the stimulus, we had to have the bailouts, and democrats want to blame this on republican, but then to answer -- that doesn't answer the question of why 2010 and 2011 all looked just as bad. so yeah, the rate of growth of the spending didn't really change that much, because they kept doing a terrible year, over and over again. i think that's what voters
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they have a responsibility to pass a budget every year. and i think if they're not willing to pass a budget they shouldn't receive any pay. but people across the country know what they want. they want a healthy economy. and the obama economy is not a healthy economy. gregg: but senator, what about the cumulative decifit? we're looking at the u.s. national debt clock, ticking away right now. but the decifit is expected to exceed $10 trillion over the next ten years. and extending the tax cuts would add an estimated $3.7 trillion to that. so aren't you making the debt and decifit much worse? >> well, by raising taxes on all americans, you're actually hurting the economy. what we need is more people working. we need an opportunity economy, a growth economy, a healthy economy, ways to get people back to work. if we have more people working and paying taxes, that's the way for over all tax revenue to go up and to deal with this. but you're right, the decifit is awful, the
president continues to spend more, and when he wants to raise taxes, it's not to actually get the decifit under control, it's because he has more ideas on how to spend the money. and i said mr. president, it's not your money. gregg: but senator, there are some democrats who say wait a minute, you know, in terms of these tax cuts, especially among the rich, they don't really spend it and put it back into the economy, they save it, and so do others. so they say it's a kanard for you to say it's going to hurt the economy. >> well f. nothing is done, if congress doesn't act, and we wrote a letter to the president saying don't let this get into a lame duck session where people will make rushed decisions which won't be necessarily good decisions, if we don't act, taxes will go up on every american worker, period, come january 1st. so everyone is going to be hit with this. this will hurt the economy, and people are -- it's hardtory get people back to work in this country right
which could be a difficult sell, we'll get to that in a moment, but your idea is to get rid of mandatory spending programs that are, quote, dysfunctional in the u.s. government. what would you get rid of in order to keep the defense budget where you want it? >> well, this goes back to when we passed the decifit reduction act last year and we saved about $900 billion out of spending. half of that came out of the military, even though they only account for less than 20 percent of the budget. half of the savings came out of the military. and then on top of that, the supercommittee -- the special committee, supercommittee, was supposed to find savings on the mandatory side of spending because if you eliminated all of the discretionary spending, we would still be running a decifit of about a half trillion dollars a year. so the real problem that we have to address is reforms in the mandatory spending programs. bill: let me just pick up on the point you're making.
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and the other is coming out inaccurate on the predictions you make of a complex global flow of capital all over the world. martha: they counted on a whole lot of revenue that didn't come into the coffers basically and we're joined by stuart varney, anchor of varney & company. very fired up governor jerry brown there. what went wrong in california, stuart? >> he delivered a huge shock when he raised the decifit estimate from $9 billion, to $16 billion. bottom line martha is governor brown's policy and polices his predecessors have flat out failed, they've consistently raised taxes to try to bring in more revenue, the extra revenue didn't appear, they have massive decifits, and in the process of raising taxes, they pushed individuals, lots of middle class people, and businesses, out of the state. those productive people no longer pay taxes in that state. so down go the revenues. up goes the decifit. and you know, martha, it is the people of california who
president. when you talk about battle ground swing states, independents a ten-point decifit for the incumbent president. that's bad news for democrats. jenna: very interesting point to make as we take a look at these polls. you always remind us, the election is five months after. anything can happen. we mentioned this bruising primary battle. it doesn't look like it's going to get easier for either gentleman. how can that be sustained when we look over the next couple of months and how that might turn off or turn on swing vote sners. >> voters are going to have to put up with an awful lot of negativity in these ads. all the numbers suggest that both cants candidates have to define each other negatively, which means that romney will go after the president negatively and president obama will try to define mr. romney negatively. at this point, obama has, his first two ads came out negative, it's now running a positive ad, it started over the course of the week yen and it's meant to sort of reframe the old reelection dynamic, not are you better off now than you were four years ago, but how will you