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people are frustrated. and what you see, and again, it unites -- it spans the political spectrum. whether it's the occupy movement or all across the political spectrum, everyone would agree that for far too long, corporations have really occupied our nation's capital. they spend so much money. and since citizens united, and given the continued push by mitt romney and others to make -- to twine them as persons, it makes it really difficult for the people to have control over their government. dollars, corporate dollars are f flooding -- >> we get the problem. what we'd like to know -- in other words, the way we're driving this the debate, are corporati corporations people? and then the question is, is money speech? there are two different questions and they both seem incredibly relevant. you appear to be really addressing our corporation's people more than is money speech in this. is that correct? >> we actually attempt to deal with all of them. there is an opportunity that we have right now to rally behind this effort, the one that you've worked so hard on to amend the constitution. >> there's so many of them.
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leveraged 44 to 1 and be betting on sovereign debt in europe. leverage is great on the way up, not so good on the way down. i don't get it as a business model, but i think we have to wait and see how the facts come out. >> jimmy? >> so, all right. so we give these banks the money, right? and then we tell them, in t.a.r.p. -- now, there's all this other new stuff. >> t.a.r.p. was the tip. >> to the tip t.a.r.p. >> the t.a.r.p. is what we tossed them as the tip. it's what you tip them at the garage -- >> that was more money. >> that was a $700 billion -- >> with a "b." >> that was the side money so you can go to a party. >> so we gave them more. the whole point was, all right, you've got to go and go loan this money out. >> right. >> i would be -- i would be interested in knowing how much money was loaned out. >> we do know. >> we do? >> the lending was off the cliff, down. >> this is the critical point. >> so why aren't we forcing them to do refinancing of mortgages?
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>> yeah. >> don't say money is speech. >> but it's good stuff. >> i like it. >> this is the debate we were hoping to see. >> it's a debate. i wish congress would debate. >> i think it gets a little hotter in the kitchen, first. we developed a lot of allies through this get money out campaign, including hip hop mogul, russell simmons. take a look at this. >> the idea is that public funding, in lobbyists. lobbyists to have dialogue, yes, but not lobbyists to pay off politicians. so that illegal bribery can stop. and as people are educated, they'll force their educatlegis to act proposerlappropriately. >> russell has his own amendment. he's been remarkably aggressive and remarkably articulate in trying to focus the conversation on an agenda which they can actually do, karen, which is get money out of politics. something that everyone can agree to. what is your sense in washington, d.c. of the elevating temperature outside of
avenue? >> they, who? >> meaning the occupation -- >> oh, completely. completely. >> those that russell simmons is talking to, the people who are supporting your amendment. just, until they get there, that's where the change is going to come from. >> let me ask you a question. let's say there's all these disparate communities, right, from all these different places that want to get money out of politics. for whatever their motivation is, whatever their organization may be, whether it's conservative or liberal, or whatever it is. what would be the impact -- i'll ask you this, jimmy, if those groups and all these disparate occupations, portland, new york, l.a., wherever, everybody converged on washington, d.c. so instead of occupying, you know, and disrupting the secretaries who are trying to get to work in lower manhattan or disrupting the coffee shop in portland or whatever it is, which the intention is there, but it's disruptive to people that are, you know, they're like, why is this -- why me. why not have that disruption be to every lobbyist, every
>> what we do is, number one, we say that corporations aren't people. it's clear to anyone who looks at it that the framers of the constitution never intended to give them the rights that individuals have. number two, congress has the ability to regulate corporations. they can't claim constitutional defended rights to protect them against the public interest. and number three, for-profit corporations cannot spend their money in our elections. >> but what about this -- because i've seen in this large corporations where i'll pay -- so you're a big shot executive at big shot company one, two, three. i'm going to pay you $30 million, but i'm going to pay you $30 million under the understanding that you personally will spend that $30 million on politicians. it won't -- big shot corporation one, two, three will never be seen. in other words, why try to control the flow of money and who's what and why not simply say, or go with what i call the ncaa rules, which is if you take money if a private source of any kind, a union, a corporation, your mother, i don't care,
the country. is it being felt in the capital? on this issue? >> you know, it is and it isn't. i mean, i have to say, as much as people here inside washington, for example, were not surprised that the super committee failed, i think that real people outside of washington were surprised, and i was surprised that people here in washington didn't feel more of an accountability and a consequence to that. and i say that to say, similarly, when we talk about getting money out and the sort of increasing strength that that has a message and as a desire of the american people, folks here in washington are still a bit out of step, and we're still hearing the same conversations, you know, we're still hearing, we've got to cut spending. we're still hearing, we can't tax millionaires. so the conversation hasn't changed, certainly not on the conservative side, to where it should, based on what we're seeing around the country and the kinds of things we're hearing and these ideas that are coming forward. >> don't you think they also need to get to pennsylvania
a lot of the aggressive stuff we did. i'm all for it. my hat goes off to judge rakov. he's a critically important guy. >> were you to be attorney general today, what would your view be of either prosecuting or investigating jon corzine or mf global relative to the blending of firm assets and customer assets? >> let me be careful here for the following reasons. john has been a friend. i've always liked him. i want that to be out there, full disclosure, which is a critically important thing in every domain. i still have a hard time believing that john ever would have sanctioned using customer segregated money, the money that is in customer accounts to cover margin calls for mf global. if that happened, people should go to jail. it is simply not acceptable. now, there may be paperwork that permitted them to dip into those funds, if it was properly collateralized. this moment of clirisis, it's hd to see how that happened. i think john is an honorable guy, it's an aggressive trader. t
Detailed text transcripts for TV channel - MSNBC - 20111129:21:15:15 vimarsana.com - get the latest breaking news, showbiz & celebrity photos, sport news & rumours, viral videos and top stories from vimarsana.com Daily Mail and Mail on Sunday newspapers.