So, the difference between georgia and the federal is, there doesn t have to be an enterprise. and, there also are many more crimes that the person can commit, and could be considered part of it. so just in a nacho, she has to prove that there was racketeering activity, and what does that mean under georgia? that means that the defendants, either committed, attempted to commit, or solicited someone to commit a crime, that is chargeable by indictment under georgia law. and, those crimes under georgia law include making false statements, perjury, forgery, bribery, violating the georgia computer act. she also has to prove it was a pattern of that racketeering activity, which means you have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that at least two acts, and they are called predicate acts, were committed, and it was committed for the purpose of engaging in this kind of plan or scheme, to overturn the georgia results. so, i knew kathryn kristen could give us the details. so greg, we re talking about
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Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton (Photo by Chip Somodevilla/Getty Images)Controversial Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton is looking to put at least one of the
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Elector scheme. these are allegations, of course, but they are not charged. that doesn t mean they won t be charged at a later date. so many more questions that we re going to continue to discuss throughout the hour. thanks to all of you. kathryn, stay close. you re back with me in a few minutes. new details from this indictment about how trump and his co-conspirators tried to undermine the 2020 election in seven different states. we re live in one of them where another case looms. plus, could the indictment cost trump support in the 2024 primary? steve kornacki joins me. and we ll talk to an historian about why this indictment might stand out. ndictment might stand out. game today? (hero fan) uh, yea. i have to watch my neighbors nfl sunday ticket. (josh allen) it s not your best plan. but you know what is?
Indictment is readable and worth reading, like the mar-a-lago indictment, it s clearly written to be read by the american public. and i think that the three charges are very different than conspiracies. the one that i find particularly interesting is the conspiracy to deprive people of their rights because i think that that one has enormous jury appeal in explaining why this prosecution is happening. why the alleged conduct was so harmful to our system of government. kathryn, let s listen to what trump s attorney had to say earlier this morning. this indictment is criminalizing conduct, not speech. it s criminalizing speech for this reason. what the president saw in the 2020 election was all of these irregularities going on. he had every right to comment on that and act politically. in a criminal case, they would have to show that all of that speech was not -- we re not talking about
For him to overturn the election. kathryn, how do you see mike pence fitting into the case moving forward, his testimony, his notes, even that quote from trump to pence that you re too honest. it seems to have implied that trump knew what was right. first of all, i don t think it s an overstatement to say that the president of the united states put his vice president s life in danger. on page 36 in paragraph 97 and 98, i find it chilling, the president tells mike pence, you know, i m going to have to publicly criticize you. his chief of staff grows alarmed and alerts the secret service. and then the next paragraph, trump acknowledges, you know, tomorrow, meaning january 6th, the crowd is going to be angry. so he has a recognition that they re going to be angry. and then we know what happened on the day of january 6th. he tweets, you know, mike pence, you know, didn t do what s right for his country and then the
He thinks he s immobilized him, goes to take care of kathryn according to plan. kevin, who is very incapacitated but still somehow aware, realizes his only hope is to get out of the house and flee and seek help. relph: kevin went out the door and probably let this guy know that this thing has totally spun out of control. singular: kathryn puts up also an incredible struggle to try to save her life. jordan: the attacker, still with kathryn fighting and fighting, has to resort to using a knife to stab her repeatedly, trying to control and incapacitate her. he stabs her seven times in one place, i believe four in another, and then he flees. morton: he walks out and walks up the street. why would he do that? because it doesn t bring any attention to him. ♪ singular: kathryn -- she s able to crawl out of her room, crawl into another room,
Richard nixon was being impeached. and you had some pretty important discussions about that time. we ll always grateful to you. i want to ask you something, liz, that kathryn just pointed out. she said in her response about the lawyer, she said if they are lawyers, meaning walt nauta and de oliveira s, if their lawyers are loyal to them, the lawyers being paid for by a trump pac, but a lawyer is supposed to be lawyer to their clients, and at some point, when they look at this evidence, what s that honest conversation looking like? what do the the lawyers say two de oliveira or nauta, you ve got a strong case against two. you could go to jail for a very long time for donald trump? a lawyer is not supposed to represent clients that have different, or conflicting, loyalties. and that s what s happened, or what appears to be happening here. this lawyer is representing both the pac, which the money