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milley has canceled his trip ireland -- i'm sorry, to israel and jordan due to the situation going on in russia. so apparently the white house is a taking this very seriously. what do you want to the hear from the white house? what would give you a sense of comfort? what sort of statement from the white house do you want to hear? >> well, it would be nice to actually hear from the commander in chief. having the secretary of state convene a group of european foreign ministers isn't exactly a shining show of strength. and i think if the commander and chief came out and said that, you know, that this was something the united states did take very seriously, we've got to remember russia has the largest nuclear arsenal in the world. if putin is destabilized, we could be left with a nightmare scenario of a bunch of little russian statelets all with their nuclear arsenals which could be an enormous problem for the united states that would dwarf ukraine. we also have to keep an eye on what china's going to do, is
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very severe sanctions on the part of the united states and the european union were a consequence moving forward in this way to essentially violate the sovereignty of the independent nation of ukraine. what really, i think, was so alarming to me and what i think suggests that we are really at the beginning of whatever attack vladimir putin has planned on the nation of ukraine is that speech yesterday from the president of russia. that was not a speech that simply ends with the recognition of two statelets in eastern part of ukraine. that was a full throated attack on the legitimacy and independence of ukraine as a country. it suggested that vladimir putin will not be satisfied until he has eliminated ukraine as an independent western oriented democraticand i think that's alarming.
but the forces hoff in and in short order with this new force, probably an increase, maybe double in size, there will be immediate elections, a sham election that says we really want to be russian just like he did in crimea back in 2014, he'll have additional legitimacy to bring in more forces and then he begins some conversations with zelenskyy, the government says this is legit. these statelets exist. we'll start pushing out. >> pull it back out one more time because we mentioned this is the region we just zoomed in on but we have forces, lots of forces in belarus, right. so when you're looking at this, i'm curious, if the threat is, and you have vladimir putin saying that ukraine owes its ancestry to the soviet union, the russians, that's a lot of other nations who are threatened when he says that. what other nations do you think need to be on high alert now when you know that there are troops here and you know what vladimir putin is saying now? >> great question, because
military and ukrainian society will resist. there will be fierce resistance if the russians go in and i look at that and say the costs outweigh any possible gain but vladimir putin has a different logic and i think this is perhaps an emotional subject for them -- this desire to claw back ukraine, which has been moving out of mots scow's orbit. that bothers the kremlin but the thing that has driven ukraine most away from russia over the past eight years has precisely been russian policy, the seizure of crimea, and then this conflict in donbas which has killed more than 14,000 people. and i don't see how what they have done today with the recognition of these two statelets, that is not going to win russia any more points in ukraine. and to be sure, if there is a major russian -- a new major russian military assault on ukraine, that also is not going to win any points for russia. they are going to create a very
important for putin because he is watching very, very closely what the western reaction is going to be. he's been very clever about sort of putting his toe in the water here. he hasn't, you know, done some sort of massive move to go for kyiv right off. instead, he started off with the donbas areas in recognizing those two so-called statelets and he's watching carefully. nord stream 2, a very strong reaction and that's the kind of reaction that is called for. i think less good news out of the american administration where we are sort of kind of not being as firm as i'd like to see it saying things like, well, this is the beginning of an invasion. that implies we're going to begin to start to maybe do things. putin will see that as a sign of weakness and flexibility he's got, unless of course, the president comes out this afternoon and puts on the full heart of super sanctions like taking him off swift and other things like that.
formations as far as belarus. so when you recognize these two little tiny statelets that putin decided he was going to confer upon them the status of his countries after putting his people in there. that's a long way away where you are which is closer to belarus, which is where those pictures are coming from. he has forces all over the place. i don't know he will simply stop at the donbas region. we haven't given him reason to. we said, we will not put forces on the ground. what is stopping him? he doesn't care if the russian people suffer, he will hang in there with those sanctions, i believe. >> major general, president zelenskyy here in ukraine announced he is calling up reservists. we met men signing up for the territorial defendantsive at the beginning of the year and the men i talked to who are. so, there is a lot of passion and enthusiasm for this.
this could be the beginning that the u.s. intelligence has warned about. it is certainly consistent with the kremlin play book. i think we are entering the next act in the play that vladimir putin has arranged for ukraine, unfortunately. it appears that really, ukraine is bracing for impact tonight. that is certainly the feeling i get here in washington. a sense that this is very, very imminent. unfortunately, the question is, would it be broader than just moving in more aggressively and more overtly into donetsk. but to go beyond those recognized statelets and into ukraine, the rest of ukraine itself. kharkiv is a major city of a million people. and again, just thinking of the ukrainian people today. it is worth taking a second and reflecting on a war that they did not ask for, that they did not initiate coming to their
being hit with escalates sanctions. u.s., u.k., now russian oil and the rest of europe, not yet. we'll see if they will. what's your sense of the economic pressure now being placed on moscow? is there enough here there enou putin's calculus or is he committed all in? >> i think he is committed all in. there's some rumblings about a possible peace settlement or things floated in the russian state media that suggest that the russians are suing for what they wanted before the war, recognition of crimea as russian federal territory, the other areas as statelets and neutrality of ukraine. i don't put much faith or stock in there being a peaceful settlement. i think putin is perhaps suggesting one in order to sue for time and try to kind of recalibrate his forces on the battlefield. i think, yeah, look, economically russia spent