give ms braverman their backing, at least as far as her rhetoric is concerned. that is a difficult thing to sustain in government. i think it is probably that that is the principal cause of why we are where we are at. whether or not lord cameron's arrival is that central to the government's battle i'm not sure. ., ., ., sure. you mentioned the departure of suella braverman. _ sure. you mentioned the departure of suella braverman. i— sure. you mentioned the departure of suella braverman. i was _ sure. you mentioned the departure of suella braverman. i was talking - sure. you mentioned the departure of suella braverman. i was talking to - sure. you mentioned the departure of suella braverman. i was talking to a l suella braverman. i was talking to a journalist from the mail on sunday who said there are many loyal conservative voters who do relate to some of the views and comments made by suella braverman. her departure could impact their votes at the next election. what do you make of that? there is some risk some of those voters might decide they prefer to voters might decide they prefer to vote for reform uk. perhaps we should remember that a government thatis should remember that a government that is 19 points behind in polls the needs to be able to do more than to appeal to core conservative voters. on the issue of immigration the research evidence is that while plenty of people who voted conservative in 2019 are unhappy about the level of immigration, including illegal immigration, that doesn't seem to be something pushing away from the conservatives. the thing is pushing the voters away from the conservatives, including those who voted for brexit in 2016 are the state of the economy, so mr hunt has an absolutely crucialjob. the second is the state of the health service. it may well be we will discover that the decision to appoint victoria atkins, a new cabinet minister to this crucial post, will be the most crucial aspect of this reshuffle, whether or not miss atkins can improve the health service, get waiting times down and restore confidence in the nhs will be central to the prospects the conservatives have at the next election. in truth that will matter much more together with the autumn statement in a couple of weeks. lord cameron is no doubt importance in his efforts on the diplomatic service but that tends to be not an aspect of politics that is central to the way people decide to vote. sirjohn curtice, bbc polling guru, also from the university of strathclyde, thank you. people are turning their heads. i'm trying to work out if there is any movement but it looks like there isn't much going on. a police officer outside the door. it's been a day of big movements in downing street. the most significant was seeing former british prime minister david cameron walk up the street this morning. lots of people shocked and surprised to see his return to front line politics. he then left the door at number 10 and crossed to his new office just over the road to the foreign office. he has returned to front line politics and is now the uk foreign secretary. there have been other moves. those moves are on the bbc website. one is the departure of steve barclay from the department of health, he is no longer health secretary. that role goes to victoria atkins. earlier we heard from steve barclay.- goes to victoria atkins. earlier we heard from steve barclay. happy with our new heard from steve barclay. happy with your new role? _ heard from steve barclay. happy with your new role? 0k. _ heard from steve barclay. happy with your new role? 0k. is _ heard from steve barclay. happy with your new role? 0k. is it _ heard from steve barclay. happy with your new role? 0k. is it a _ heard from steve barclay. happy with your new role? 0k. is it a promotion | your new role? 0k. is it a promotion or a sideways step? looking - your new role? 0k. is it a promotion or a sideways step? looking forward | or a sideways step? looking forward to it. any thoughts _ or a sideways step? looking forward to it. any thoughts on _ or a sideways step? looking forward to it. any thoughts on david - or a sideways step? looking forward | to it. any thoughts on david cameron returnin: ? to it. any thoughts on david cameron returning? very _ to it. any thoughts on david cameron returning? very exciting _ returning? very exciting appointment. _ returning? very exciting appointment. lots - returning? very exciting appointment. lots of. returning? very exciting i appointment. lots of shots returning? very exciting - appointment. lots of shots of returning? very exciting _ appointment. lots of shots of people walkin: appointment. lots of shots of people walking up-and-down _ appointment. lots of shots of people walking up-and-down westminster. walking up—and—down westminster today. that was steve barclay who is no longer in the health role but at the department of environment and rural affairs. to discuss this in more detail i am joined by guto harri, the former director of communications here. he served in 2022 under borisjohnson. always good to talk to you. what do you make of the moves, most notably the return of david cameron? it’s make of the moves, most notably the return of david cameron?— return of david cameron? it's always nice as pm to _ return of david cameron? it's always nice as pm to pull _ return of david cameron? it's always nice as pm to pull something - return of david cameron? it's always nice as pm to pull something out - return of david cameron? it's always nice as pm to pull something out ofl nice as pm to pull something out of a hat and he has blindsided almost everyone. it is interesting appointment, there are many downsides, he is associated with the past, austerity, brexit, some people hate him for calling the referendum and losing the campaign. others for campaigning against the outcome they wanted and got. what is undeniable is this is now a cabinet of real heavyweights. when you think of the variations in cabinet we have had over the last few years you have in the top of state people who are recognised for their experience, for their ability, for there intellectual calibre. nobody can say this is a lightweight top end of the cabinet. what i think it signals is not a rishi sunak, perhaps belatedly as some people would have found it in his own party, is getting a grip and saying we have to govern this united kingdom, we are not giving up on governing and neither on the next election. this is a signal they are prepared to fight for that, not just squabble and then fight for the spoils of leader of the opposition which is what it has looked like for quite a while. which is what it has looked like for quite a while-— quite a while. henri anier i described _ quite a while. henri anier i described it _ quite a while. henri anier i described it earlier- quite a while. henri anier i described it earlier as - quite a while. henri anier i described it earlier as a - quite a while. henri anier i l described it earlier as a retro cabinet and there are quite a lot of names who are close to david cameron. what do you make of that? some would say the party has evolved since david cameron was in power and it's time to move forward. it since david cameron was in power and it's time to move forward.— it's time to move forward. it has. lookin: it's time to move forward. it has. looking at _ it's time to move forward. it has. looking at rishi _ it's time to move forward. it has. looking at rishi sunak, - it's time to move forward. it has. looking at rishi sunak, he - it's time to move forward. it has. looking at rishi sunak, he is - it's time to move forward. it has. looking at rishi sunak, he is a i looking at rishi sunak, he is a generational change, a man with roots abroad and an education on the west coast of america and a profound understanding of tech and global finance. in many ways it is odd when you have that quite interesting, progressive generational change at the top of the conservative party, to go back to the past, if you like. if you look across the cabinet with the recent appointment of claire coutinho in energy and then victoria atkins today, you have a balance of experience and very able young people in cabinet. if you were a head hunter coming up with a cabinet thatis head hunter coming up with a cabinet that is balanced with people who cover each other�*s weaknesses, you now have rishi sunak�*s youth covered by david cameron's age. another interesting thought, michael heseltine pointed this out, there was a period when the conservative party was not moving on to the next generation, not progressing. but seemed to be in the hands of the slightly mad people who were at the extremes of politics and flirting with even further extremes of british politics. what you have now are people who are very mainstream. you may find in parts of the country they find him a bit tame, stuffy and a bit old school but they look like the sort of cabinet that we are used to. this looks like a grown—up politics again. to. this looks like a grown-up politics again.— to. this looks like a grown-up politics again. there were many eo - le i politics again. there were many people i spoke _ politics again. there were many people i spoke to _ politics again. there were many people i spoke to here - politics again. there were many people i spoke to here in - politics again. there were many people i spoke to here in the i people i spoke to here in the morning in downing street and beyond who were surprised to see the return of david cameron. you are still connected in conservative circles. surprised? i connected in conservative circles. surrised? ., , connected in conservative circles. surprised?— connected in conservative circles. surrised? a , surprised? i was. as somebody the same are surprised? i was. as somebody the same age as _ surprised? i was. as somebody the same age as him, _ surprised? i was. as somebody the same age as him, it _ surprised? i was. as somebody the same age as him, it is _ surprised? i was. as somebody the same age as him, it is reassuring i surprised? i was. as somebody the | same age as him, it is reassuring to see we don't dismiss people because of age. in the case of david cameron he became prime minister having never held any great office of state because his party had been in opposition. it is interesting he is retrofitting the sort of career most normal people would have had before becoming prime minister. it is surprising it was kept tight. there was not a hint. that speaks to something else that was lacking last year when i was in number 10, the sense that the party and those at the heart of it in number 10 had the discipline not to leak everything. we were blindsided today by the nature of the decision and what happened. that is a sign this team is tightening its grip, getting better and more professional. i hope what will be offered going forward will be more mainstream, less extreme, a reflection of capable people who do want to put the interests of the uk first over the next year. that would also help their party stand a better chance of closing the gap with labour ahead of the next general election. figs the next general election. as somebody who worked for boris johnson and understands that sort of wing of the party, where do you think those tory mps who were very loyal to suella braverman will be left? i loyal to suella braverman will be left? ~' �* ., , loyal to suella braverman will be left? ~ ., left? i think boris johnson had su ort left? i think boris johnson had support from _ left? i think boris johnson had support from a _ left? i think boris johnson had support from a large - left? i think boris johnson had support from a large coalition | left? i think boris johnson had i support from a large coalition and one thing that will surprise him is when he delivered a huge majority at the last general election and 365 mps. the last general election and 365 mp5. it the last general election and 365 mps. it is slightly insulting that not one of those mps is worthy of being foreign secretary that you would turn to somebody who has left politics and put him in the house of lords to bring him back. i think the traditional grown—ups in charge of the conservative party over many decades are reasserting control of that party and what we will see will be more tame, more mainstream, less crazy if you like, but still compared, as you brought up his name, a little less charismatic, less inspired and a little less in's exciting than what borisjohnson had initially promised when he delivered what was the biggest victory for the conservative party in nearly half a century. conservative party in nearly half a centu . ., , . ., conservative party in nearly half a centu . ., , ., century. former director of communications _ century. former director of communications at - century. former director of communications at 10 i century. former director of- communications at 10 downing century. former director of— communications at 10 downing street, guto harri, thank you forjoining us. i'mjoined by senior conservative mp tobias ellwood. good to have you on bbc news. i don't know if you listened in to what guto harri had to say but let me ask you about the first point he raised, the fact there are many mps who have been overlooked and david cameron has been brought back in and been given a lordship in order to come back to front line politics. what do you make of that? this back to front line politics. what do you make of that?— you make of that? this probably isn't something _ you make of that? this probably isn't something the _ you make of that? this probably isn't something the electorate i you make of that? this probablyj isn't something the electorate is worried about at this point but i hope worried about at this point but i ho -e, , worried about at this point but i ho .e�* , , , worried about at this point but i ho -e, , , , ., worried about at this point but i ho .e�* , , , ., , ., worried about at this point but i hoe , , , ., hope just briefly, what you make some of the _ hope just briefly, what you make some of the other _ hope just briefly, what you make some of the other movements i hope just briefly, what you make some of the other movements in hope just briefly, what you make i some of the other movements in this i'm joined now by senior conservative mp tobias ellwood, very good to have you here on bbc news. i don't know if you're listening in, but let me ask you about that first point he raised, the fact that there are many mps who have been overlooked, and that david cameron has been brought back in and been given a lordship in order to come back to front line politics. what you make of that? reshuffles are never easy. i do hope, this is something that the electorate is properly worried about at this point, but i do hope there are some pastoral care that is able to look after those people whose lives will be changed abruptly today because of this change in direction. i agree with your last interviewer, this is introducing heavyweights to the front line, and it is a bold and necessary move. it is a change in direction, the introduction of new personalities, an injection of energy and experience, and it helps draw a line under those challenges, difficult headlines from last week. it offers clarity as to where the party will position itself as a centre—right party, a one nation party, more mainstream than when we have won previous elections, appealing beyond our base, and in the area that i've spent a lot of time focusing on, it does introduce a senior heavyweight in the form of david cameron, a respected figure to lead our foreign security policy, at a time when greater global statecraft is required. i'm saying this at the point where the world has turned into a dark corner, threats are growing, they are more complicated and diverse, and i think david cameron has an important role to play as we increase our statecraft on the international stage. david cameron was a prime minister who left ear after he lost that referendum that he campaigned for to remain. you were a remain as well. there was a lot of people who supported brexit, and part of those constituents in the conservative party are loyal to suella braverman, who may feel a bit cheated by the fact she was sacked today. what you make of that? i think we may need to move on from the referendum itself. it is actually ok to say that you support the result of the referendum, but don't agree where brexit is today, and we should refine that. i tried to have that argument, there is little appetite to discuss list. to go back to 2016, because david cameron is now back in the front line of politics, to try and regurgitate those old arguments when it is seven or eight years later, it is important to recognise where we are today, what is required for today, and i distressed that it is so important that our party changes tack somewhat. a party that governs from the centre right, as we have seen from the past, with disraeli, baldwin, thatcher, and cameron himself. don't forget, the reshuffle has not finished yet, so i'm sure that every aspect of our party will be represented. our appeal goes way beyond our party base, and we gained more general support of the electorate, and that will help win. i was talking to a journalist from the mail on sunday, who said the views held by suella braverman are held by a large number of loyal conservative voters who now feel they don't have someone speaking up for them at the top table? i understand that, but when parties retreat to their base, whether it be conservatives moving to the right, or a labour moving to the left underjeremy corbyn, you lose general elections because you don't appeal to the centre ground. it is important that we appeal and include our party base, and actually appeal beyond it. the idea that we need to secure the right wing boaters because we are scared of the reform party... the middle of the route as i was been the sweet spot in british politics, and we should remember that as the next election approaches. let me ask you about the move from the foreign office to the home office forjames cleverly. he is seen as a reliable player fans. he has a big job on his hands, because there's been a lot of controversial issues that really meant suella braverman dominated the headlines, not least the small boat crossings, which is a pledge for rishi sunak as we head into the next election? home office is one of the toughestjobs. james cleverly, as you described yourself, he will bring a measured approach to this very different from his predecessor... those demonstrations haven't gone away. they will be looking at the details of what happened in the last weekend in the future, and i thinkjames cleverly will do an excellentjob there. just briefly, what you make some of the other movements in this in this reshuffle? i think it is fantastic news. we have a lot of work to do. i think it is fantastic news. we have a lot of work to— have a lot of work to do, but i think it is _ have a lot of work to do, but i think it is fantastic _ have a lot of work to do, but i think it is fantastic news. i have a lot of work to do, but i think it is fantastic news. this have a lot of work to do, but i i think it is fantastic news. this is a good day to be a conservative, and i haven't said that for a long while. ,, ., , i haven't said that for a long while. ,, ._ , , i haven't said that for a long while. ,, , , , , while. stay with us very briefly, because they — while. stay with us very briefly, because they have _ while. stay with us very briefly, because they have just - while. stay with us very briefly, because they have just seen i while. stay with us very briefly, because they have just seen a l while. stay with us very briefly, i because they have just seen a tweet from greg hands, the out