and i sat in the back, working out the swings with a calculator and a pad of paper, which i then passed him a piece of paper so that he could sound terribly informed about the swings in each constituency. i also spent a bit of time clock—watching output, both the bbc and itv and others, for a private company that was just assessing whether or not they were meeting the election guidelines and giving all the parties a fair crack at the whip... which is why you've always been so intrinsically fair at election time. it's hard—wired into you! but i know that this is probably the first... well, i know for a fact this is the first ever uk general election where the party leaders have had to comment on the fact that a former us president has just been found guilty of a felony. yeah. cos it's never happened before. it is just sort of... when you say it like that, itjust... itjust takes your breath away. and, yes, they've all had to comment. right, and we will discuss what they've been saying, along with lots of other events on the campaign trail, on this episode of newscast. newscast from the bbc. hello, it's adam in the studio, and we will catch up again with james landale on the fallout from the trump trial in a couple of minutes. but earlier on today, at around about lunchtime, i was speaking to chris mason, political editor of the bbc and my podcasting best buddy. and it was a little bit chaotic, i have to admit. we weren't sure where he was going to be. he ended up being at the bbc in glasgow. i'd been recording another programme for radio 4 at westminster, so i ended up in a cupboard there where you couldn't film me. so you're not going to see me, but you will see and hear chris and you will hear me asking him questions and you will also hear loads of breaking news happening around that time. and i was just trying to make sense of what was going on, and us just trying to make sense of what was going on, particularly with the latest about diane abbott, where we just heard the news that keir starmer had said the way was clear for her to be a labour candidate at this election after all. chris, hello! hi! it's 2:05pm when we're recording this bit of newscast. shall we talk about all the odd things about today — first of all, the fact that you drove past my childhood home? idid. so i was at a second—hand children's toy place that the first minister of scotland, the snp leader, john swinney... some of my old ones in there! well, yeah, i was looking for...your old space hopper from 1983, in the cornerfor £1.75. actually, it'd be probably more than that, wouldn't it, a vintage �*80s space hopper? that'd be worth 25, 30 quid probably. i don't know, maybe more than that. yeah, no, so i was there. john swinney was doing a visit, snp trying to hold on to a load of seats in and around glasgow. and i suddenly thought, "hang on a minute, this is fleming country i'm in here!" yeah, so thank you for sending me that little map pin. the second weird thing is that as we're recording now, it's now 2.06pm, about ten minutes ago, we got the flash that basically diane abbott is going to... she's got a clearer run to now be the labour candidate in hackney north. yeah. so just give me your... i mean, obviously when people are listening, newscasters are listening to this, the picture will be a lot clearer. but let's just do a bit of, like, real—time breaking news that's just happened. blimey! yeah, so it would appear that labour have, at leadership level — by which we mean keir starmer, because of course we heard what angela rayner had to say yesterday, the deputy leader, where she said that she'd like diane abbott to be able to stand — keir starmer has indicated that that is now his view and that the party's national executive committee will not stand in the way of diane abbott being the labour candidate in that part of east london that she has represented for so, so long. and of course there'll be a full list of candidates, in the fullness of time, for that seat in hackney on the bbc website. so it would appear, as we record atjust gone 2pm on friday afternoon, that labourafter, i mean, how long has it been, quite a while — a wall of noise and public disagreement and awkwardness — have managed to shuffle their way to a solution where they will hope in keir starmer�*s office that this means the whole thing can die down, because it was becoming yet another kind of cause celebre for the left... is that how you say that word? i don't know. yeah. i should stick with english. is that the first time you've ever said it? ithink... i've typed it, i've typed it! i think i wrote it in an online piece the other day. that's where it's coming from. but it's a lot easier to spell than it is to say, even though it's got lots of vowels in it. anyway, diane abbott had become that kind of totem, if you like, for the anger that some on the left have felt about being marginalised — notjust in this campaign, but going back over the last couple of years, really, since the sort of political demise, if you like, ofjeremy corbyn at the highest level. and if they have found a way to calm that down, which it would appear as we record that they have, then i suspect from keir starmer�*s perspective, that'll be something of a relief. yes, with this whole row, he could use it as a way of pointing out how the party had changed and, if you like, that move away from the labour left. but equally, it was getting noisy, it was getting acrimonious. in fact, it was acrimonious and it was crowding out their capacity to be heard talking about anything else. and also, not to pat ourselves on the back — he says, patting himself on the back — but that theory that you, me, laura and jo coburn were talking about last night, that even though keir starmer was kind of relying on this quite technocratic defence of, "it's a matter for labour's national executive committee, who will endorse their final list of candidates on tuesday, that's a process i've got nothing to do with," keir starmer was sort of saying, actually, the idea that keir starmer could have sent a big political signal that trumped that technocratic process, that theory was true because we've got the big political signal today. and, actually, we can hear keir starmer delivering that signal, because we've now got the little bit of tape where he actually said all of this. diane abbott was elected in 1987, the first black woman mp. she's been a trailblazer. she has carved a path for other people to come into politics and public life. the whip has obviously been restored to her now and she is free to go forward as a labour candidate. and, yeah, exactly that point, adam, that you were making just before we heard that extract there. of course, it's a political organisation, a political party, to make a statement obvious, and if the figurehead says something that matters, but also a national executive committee of a party, of course it has a sort of governing role, but it's not some detached sort ofjudge and jury entirely on a plane that is not in any way connected to the political moods and prevailing winds within that party. and whilst keir starmer could accurately say in a sort of technocratic way, "it's down to the national executive committee," he was making a political choice up until today to not say that he would welcome diane abbott standing as a labour candidate, and now he's saying something rather different, as well as the suggestion that there wouldn't be any problem as far as the nec is concerned. so on the face of it, as we record — and let's see, because there can sometimes be twists and turns — it looks like, if you like, the labour movement, the labourfamily, call it what you will, that have been shouting at each other quite a bit in the last few days, as far as her case is concerned, at least, might have manoeuvred its way towards a solution. i was just bantering with one of our colleagues that, wouldn't be hilarious if, by the time we're actually recording the rest of this episode of newscast and uploading it to bbc sounds, diane abbott has then said, "actually, i'm going to take this moment to retire gracefully, i've had an amazing a0 years in politics," and then this whole week will have just been basically imaginary — real but not real. well, the thing is, you know, on that point, as i think we were saying on the last episode of newscast, there was a widespread expectation earlier in the week that that is how this week might pan out, with her deciding to retire. but then, of course, the other night, there she was saying on the steps of hackney town hall, you know, "i'll be your mp for as long as as i can be," you know, which implies that she has sort of full kind of desire and energy to crack on with this campaign as a labour candidate if she's allowed, and now we know she is. well, let's now go back to the one of the original reasons that you're in my old hometown of glasgow, on the south side. it was seeing the snp leader john swinney, who's also the first minister of scotland. we'll listen to a big chunk of the interview that you did with him on friday morning. but do you want to provide some — i hate saying this word, but i do actually quite like saying it sometimes — provide some context? a little splash of context. my favourite bit of context, if you like, in terms of getting your head around what's going on in the scottish national party at the moment, is that here you havejohn swinney, who is the 60—year—old former youth leader of the snp — that's how long he's been kind of hanging around in snp circles — who has been the first minister of scotland forjust over three weeks, and we're already a week into a general election campaign. and he kind of became first minister sort of by accident because of the sort of rapid political demise of humza yousaf. so he's had quite a few weeks, but then this is a guy who's seen a lot of elections come and go. and i was struck in the conversation i had with him that he's quite matter—of—fact, really, about the kind of political headwinds that the snp face, those headwinds being, it's been in power here in scotland in devolved government since 2007, it's gone through three leaders in the blink of an eye — not dissimilar from the conservatives, in that sense from a couple of years ago. there's been the whole business of the police investigation and all of that into the party that's been rumbling on and continues to rumble on in the background. and labour, having been near wiped out by the snp much of the last decade or so, are feeling chipper in scotland again. and there's opinion polls that suggest labour are outpolling the snp and could win more seats than the snp in scotland at the general election. so the snp are in a kind of defensive position. they've been at a high watermark, if you like, for a very, very, very long time, but it now looks like they're in, yeah, a defensive position. you got a real sense of that from john swinney today, with a load of people alongside him, snp candidates who were mps in the last parliament, who now have the snp leader's support to try and help them stay, which gives you some sense of that sense of "defend, defend." i mean, obviously you're in a defensive position if you hold, as they do, the vast majority of the seats in scotland. but the expectation across the piece is that that is likely to shrivel, and so that's the much—desired context that you were seeking. well, that's the splash of context. let's have the splash of content with your interview with john swinney. you are the third snp leader since the last general election. the snp has been in power in scotland since 2007. what do you say to the person who says the party might be a bit clapped out, tired? what i'd say is that we've actually transformed lives in scotland and transformed opportunities. so if you take early learning and child care, for example, in the course of the snp government, we've more than doubled the provision of early learning and child care that's available for children and families around the country, and we've delivered a higher growth in gdp per capita than has been achieved in the rest of the uk over our time in office. so the snp has delivered much for scotland, and the government i lead is focused on making sure that we continue that delivery for people living their lives in scotland. 0k, chris, things that jump out at you there? also, i mean, i'll now mansplain your own interview to you — the call for an emergency budget, well, we know that rachel reeves, if she's chancellor, she's not going to have an emergency budget. so it's another example of another party trying to influence a future labour government, but asking them to do something that they know they're probably not going to do. yeah. and so i think overall in the round, adam, listening to... it's been such a long week, i nearly forgot your name then! flippin�* �*eck! one of our colleagues called me richard yesterday when i was recording something. i was like, "where's that...?" i don't feel like i look like a richard! so what's so interesting listening tojohn swinney is this. so, john swinney says that it's really important that scotland gets rid of the conservative government. and so i was saying to him, "well, would not the easiest way for a scottish voter to guarantee — if that's what they wanted — to get rid of the conservative government, to vote for the labour party because they are the alternative uk government?" and of course he then makes an argument that says no, because the snp is the true voice of scotland, and then he makes his argument down that track. but there's an interesting sort of logical tussle from him there. so on the one hand, the snp — broadly on the centre left politically — often, particularly when there's a conservative government at westminster, will frame a lot scotland hasn't itself voted for. and the broad political instincts of the snp might be to favour a labour government over a conservative one, but then if labour are your principal opponents in most of the seats, not all of the seats — john swinney making the point that the six seats that were held by the conservatives in scotland in the last parliament have the snp as the main challenger — but when the main battleground in scottish politics at this general election is between the snp and labour and you have the snp acknowledging that they'd like to see the back as the snp, confronted by that wider political dynamic. and then just on another subject, keir starmer being in scotland he's up in kind of oil and gas territory, talking about labour's policy of launching gb energy, which listeners to newscast about it at the labour party conference a few years ago, where he first announced it. it was never going to be an energy company that you could get a bill from, you couldn't sign up to them as your energy provider, it's a much more kind of nuanced thing about investment and generating new energy projects rather than generating the energy itself. but they've had a bit... it's launched today, not that it's even launched cos they're not setting it up today. it's been a bit tricky as well. it's not gone entirely 100% smoothly. no, they've had to be sort of fleshing out precisely what it is, firstly. and then secondly, they've been taking quite a bit of heat from both the conservatives and the snp about the extent to which their broader outlook on energy — and in particular, the oil and gas industry off the north—east coast of scotland — and their desire, labour's desire, that there shouldn't be any additional licences for exploration and development in the north sea could cost significant numbers ofjobs. i think you have one party saying 100,000, another saying 200,000. there's a bit of guesswork going on there, but it's pretty clear that the opposition to that is significant and the concerns around its economic impact are significant as far as gb energy is concerned. —— and the concerns around its economic impact are significant. as far as gb energy is concerned, keir starmer keen to — and has always been keen to — ground it, yes, with that gb badge, but also, if you like, with a saltire hanging from it as well, a scottish flag hanging from it as well. why? because they say it would be headquartered here in scotland. i guess from labour's perspective, as a unionist party, wanting to see the uk stay in its kind of broadly current constitutional set—up, then you put things that have a gb badge on in scotland as a kind of binding agent of the uk union. the other thing, to make the obvious political point, but it's worth making, is that there's a very good political reason, at least strategically, they would see it, labour, for having keir starmer, angela rayner, ed miliband and anas sarwar, the... oh, i think there's a fire test! male vows: we're - about to conduct a test of a fire alarm system. no action is to be taken. thank you. this is exciting, isn't it? i'm glad it's not a realfire. well, am i going to be blasted by white noise in a minute? i don't know. or maybe it's one of those silent ones that only dogs can hear. this is like a bbc training course unfolding live on newscast. i know, i know! shall i see if i can fit my little labour analysis point in between now and the fire...going off? so i'll do the shortened version. quite a lot of shadow cabinet ministers, as well as the labour leader in scotland, all at this event today. why? because this is sort of — they hope, labour — rich, fertile pickings come the general election, particularly the whole belt of seats that exist in and around glasgow and edinburgh, the central belt of scotland. it's so, so important to labour and to keir starmer. and they are confident they can do well because it's the counterpoint to that whole thing about the kind of headwinds into which the snp are walking. so, you're going to see keir starmer here very often. i think he was here last friday, here again today. i have no idea his precise diary, but i would not be surprised because, firstly, there is a need for a distinct message, i think, here in scotland — it's a different polity, it's a different nation, it feels different in many senses politically from the rest of... ringing 0h! oh, well done. i mean, you nearly timed that perfectly. voice: ..within the building. please leave the building in an orderly manner by the nearest available exit. chris, i think it would be a very bad look if i made you stay in that studio chatting to us while that quite stern woman is telling you to leave the building. i know, but she'sjust told us it's a test. 0h, mixed messages — just what you want in an election campaign! i know, exactly — where's the message discipline? so, yeah, i think we'll be seeing a lot of keir starmer in scotland, with or without the fire test. presumably they're about to tell us it's finished now. either that or i'm the only one in this building. ringing 0h, hang on! good afternoon, the fire alarm test is now complete. thank you. great. and, chris mason, your political analysis for today's episode of newscast is now complete. you may go. bing—bong! thank you! and that was chris mason this afternoon. i have no idea where he's ended up. i hope he gets to sleep in his own bed at some point this weekend. right, james, where were you when you saw the picture, or got the news that trump had been convicted in new york on thursday night? i was at home. i was watching the news, like everybody else, and i knew it was coming up. and a little bit of me was thinking a sense of sympathy for all those other correspondents who'd worked on very finely honed pieces ofjournalism and television news packages that were just waiting to bejunked the moment the verdict came in. and that's what happened. and the other thing i remember from it was the outstanding perfor