Transcripts For CNNW Anderson 20240702 : vimarsana.com

CNNW Anderson July 2, 2024



erin? >> jeff, thank you very much.. and thananks to all l of you fo. good evening with the israeli military saying troops have now surrounded gaza city, we have been watching for most of the evening now some especially heavy air strikes on gaza, intense enough that cnn military analyst cedric layton said earlier tonight it reminded him of what he called the shock and awe air campaign against iraq. here is some of what it looked like and sounded like from sderot, across the border from gaza. with flares overhead for much of the time, israeli warplanes launched wave after wave of air-to-ground guided munitions at targets in gaza. one ripple of tightly grouped ordnance after another could be seen streaking downward, while in the background outgoing artillery followed by thumps of warheaded and shells landing. shortly before this began, antony blinken left on a swing, including stops in israel and jordan. his message was twofold. >> well, as we said, and it's important, israel has the right and the obligation to defend itself. and, again, to try to make sure that what happened never happens again. no country, no country, not the united states, not anyone else that i can think of would tolerate the slaughter of its civilians. but as democracies, the united states, israel, other democracies have a responsibility to do everything possible to protect civilians who may be caught in harm's way. so we will be talking about concrete steps that can and should be taken to minimize harm to men, women, and children in gaza. >> behind the scenes, u.s. officials tell cnn they believe there is only limited time for israel to try to accomplish its stated objective of destroying hamas in its current operation before uproar over humanitarian suffering and civilian casualties reaches a tipping point. and on capitol hill, a republican-controlled house tonight passed legislation providing $14.3 billion in aid to equal. it cuts an equal amount from the irs and does not include money for ukraine, the bill is expected to face opposition, some of it bipartisan in the democratic controlled senate. also today, another 20 to 25 americans managed to make it out of gaza and into egypt by way of the border crossing in rafah before egyptian officials closed it for the day. it's all part of the picture tonight. nic robertson is at the camera position in sderot that has been trained on those images over gaza for the past several hours. so nick, do we know what we were looking at and what's been going on now on the ground? >> we believe were looking at beit anun being illuminated and military smoke screen on the ground to potentially give the idf a little bit of freedom of movement, or make their movement safer around this town. this town, bait anunn is in the most eastern corner of the gaza strip. it's about 2 1/2 miles from where we are. and a little bit later on after that attack, there was an attack on what appeared to be another town a little bit behind b beit anun. it's very hard to tell what was being achieved on the ground, but it certainly gave the impression that all the firepower that was being brought to all that illumination, all that smoke screen, that this was the focus of a very intense and concerted push by israeli forces tonight on these particular towns, anderson. >> what's the idf saying about its operations around gaza city? >> yeah, it's saying it's at the gates of gaza city, that it's going into gaza city, that it has surrounded, which really creates the impression that the idf has actually managed t d to bisect the gaza strip, cut the north from the south, if indeed they have fully surrounded gaza city, which is larger than beit anun and the idf has been telling civilians there they should move out of the way because it's dangerous. we now know more than 9,000 citizens in gaza have died according to the hamas-run palestinian health authority. more than 22,000 have been injured. and the activities, the military activities tonight perhaps going to contribute to that. but also, we know it's been incredibly dangerous for the idf. they increasingly are taking casualties. the number of soldiers who have been killed is going up. hamas, according to the idf is using armored pierce:00 rocket-propelled grenades that puncture the heavy armor on tanks and infantry fighting vehicles. so it is very dangerous, as it appears gaza city and beit anun are focus of efforts to get in there to find the command and control, the headquarters of hamas, which has been and is so deeply buried underground in many circumstances, anderson. >> and have there continued to be rockets fired from gaza into israel? >> you know, remarkably, during that intense period where there was so much firepower we saw going into beit anun, we saw rockets coming out of gaza. you almost has to wonder under how much firepower how could hamas do that. and i was wondering if i should doubt my eyes. but then we saw the iron dome intercept systems take off and intercept these rockets. so remarkably, it seems despite the heavy firepower, a couple of rockets were fired out of gaza that said, i have to say that through the day, very, very few rockets have actually come out of gaza that we've witnessed today, anderson. >> all right. nic robertson, appreciate it from sderot. new video on what israeli troops are seeing and what more they could be facing on the streets of gaza. and beneath them, cnn's ed lavandera has that. >> reporter: the hamas propaganda video shows its fighters emerge from underground tunnels in what appears to be the northern outskirts of the most populated areas of gaza. hiding in the terrain, the hamas soldiers fire away at israeli units advancing into gaza. one video shows a hamas soldier stalking an israeli tank, rung up next to it and placing an explosive device on the machinery, then running away. seconds later, the device detonates. the hamas fighter then disappears into the ground through a trap door. a political leader of hamas spoke this week about the tunnel's vital roll in the hamas military strategy. "we have built the tunnels," he says "because we have no other way of protecting ourselves and being killed. these tunnels are meant to protect ourselves from the airplanes. we are fighting from inside the tunnels." while israel has unleashed thousands of air strikes across gaza since october 7th, hamas is also trying to show off its air strike capabilities. it released this video of a munition strike dropped from a drone over israeli soldiers. it's not clear how many casualties it inflicted on the israel defense force. several soldiers can be seen running away from the site. the israel defense forces released this hamas propaganda video which captures the elaborate maze of tunnels which stretch for dozens of miles underneath gaza. the militant organization uses the tunnels to store weapons and to launch air strikes towards israel. veteran israeli journalist has reported on hamas for decades. he says the underground tunnels are known as the gaza metro. >> they're hiding there. they spend billions of dollars. they build houses, tunnels, path, and venue. it's a project. it's a huge project. >> reporter: israel says dismantling the tunnels is the only way to dismantle hamas. >> ed, it's fascinating to hear that interview with the hamas official who is saying they built the tunnels to protect themselves. nothing about the civilians in gaza who do not have bomb shelters, that hamas has not built shelters for civilians. just for their own people. you're in tel aviv tonight. what more do you know about israel's strategy to dismantle these tunnels or fight in them, if that's what they intend to do? >> well, despite the fact that these israeli air strikes on gaza have generated so much controversy around the world, there is very clear indication that there is no intention of slowing down. prime minister benjamin netanyahu said today that, quote, nothing will stop us. other officials here in the israeli government essentially saying that this is all about a campaign to put maximum pressure on the hamas military. and given what we know, that that tunnel system and how vital it is to that military operation, it's hard to imagine that the israeli military has any plans of slowing down the attack on that. but all of this tunnel system is built around, in large part, large civilian populations. so that the s the dilemma here. but it is clear there is no indication that the israeli military forces are going to slow down the attempts to dismantle that system below ground. anderson? >> ed lavandera, thanks. retired army general mark hertling joins us now. how effective do you think these tunnels are? we've seen some of the video. they've certainly been reinforced over many, many years. and a lot of money has been put into them. i mean, will idf soldiers actually have to end up going into these tunnel, fighting in these tunnels? or will it be an attempt to crush the tunnels from above somehow? >> anderson, if i can address what we've both been seeing from a soldier's perspective first, nic robertson has been showing some great films. ed just showed that film of the underground tunnels. the combat environment inside of gaza, gaza city is just something that will -- the sense. we can look from a faraway distance as nic is doing and just see smoke and lightning and bombs blowing up and artillery rounds landing. if you're inside that area, and i believe that israel has encircled all of gaza city, because in urban combat, you want to control ingress and egress of your enemy into what their defensive positions are. so now they're trying to confuse hamas soldiers in terms of where those tunnel entrances are. they're trying seek out the locations. they're trying to cause just confusion by those soldiers. but in past wars, in 2021 and 2014, israel was very effective in finding where those tunnels were when they were first built. they would drop smoke inside of tunnels and see where the smoke -- green smoke or purple smoke and see where the smoke came out in other buildings. so then they could get a determination of where the tunnels went, where the rows were going in and out. i don't think you're going to see a whole lot of israeli soldiers going inside the tunnel, but they are going to continue to bombard those with the kinds of explosive devices we've seen over the last couple of days to cause those tunnels to cave in and trap those that are inside. now as part of that, they're unfortunately going to be hitting cities where there are still civilians interspersed with himar fighters. i was looking at the film that nic was showing, and i wouldn't want to be in that city fighting if i were a hamas soldier right now, because it's just utter confusion and assault on all of the senses. you don't know where you are. you don't know where the enemy is. and even though the israeli forces are going in with tanks, a little tip on that, those tanks have vision blocks in the driver's seat that are about this big. so they're trying to figure out as the turret moves back and forth what they can see. they have thermal sights inside, but sometimes you can't see through some of this smoke and rubble. this is a horrendous fight inside of a city. that's why soldiers don't like to fight in urban environments. >> and if you are going -- if you surrounded it and you are moving -- i don't know if it's block by block, if it's house to house, do you hold a street you have moved down, or do you operate and then move back to some other position? >> first, in normal tactics, you have to secure the buildings and then you secure it or hold it. the problem in gaza is not only the larger apartment buildings or the rubble buildings that are above the ground, you also have a subterranean city. so you also have to try and hold those locations and ensure the hamas terrorists who are moving around in the tunnel, perhaps even with some of the hostages are controlled in that area. that's why the exits of those tunnels around the city have to be destroyed. and that's why the israeli air force is hitting some of these cities with these large super penetrating bombs that go 100 feet down before they explode. that's why you see the large craters that you're seeing now in the jabalya area yesterday. it's not because it's blowing up a lot of things, but it's penetrating the dirt up to 100 feet and then blowing up, which will collapse the tunnel. that's all part of the tactics of fighting a subterranean environment. >> collapse the tunnel and then obviously the buildings on top, as we're seeing. general hertling, thing. more on antony blinken's trip and how the fighting in gaza might affect it. and more from eric trump and donald trump jr. on how they say others were to blame, not themselves for the financial statements. the judge in their new york civil case has already ruled were fraudulent. the question is now w what they said anyny more crededible than those frfraudulent s statements. secretary of state blinken is on the way to israel and jordan. he took off in the 1:00 a.m. hour from washington. at 4:00 p.m. israeli forces launched what looked like significant air and artillery barrages on gaza. the question tonight, how will it affect his mission, if it will, and the administration's aim in persuading israel to conduct the war with an eye to the end game. secretary blinken restated that goal on the tarmac today. >> with regard to what comes next, i think understandably, people are very focused on the day of, not just the day after. but we do have to have conversations now about how we can set the conditions for a durable, sustainable peace, durable, sustainable security for israelis and palestinians alike. >> some perspective now. new reporting on how israel's ground campaign is going. joining us for that is brock ravid, political and foreign policy reporter at axios. brock, first of all, what do you make of what we have been witnessing over the last several hours? what are you hearing about what is going on the ground? >> hi, good evening. i think that what we see on the ground right now is the ground operation. okay, until today, the idf was inside gaza, but it was on the outskirts of gaza city. today the idf basically broke into gaza city, into neighborhoods like telelhawa, where a lot of the hamas security services headquarters are located to other neighborhoods in gaza, to the refugee camp. this is the real deal what we see right now. and at least from everything i hear from israeli defense officials, i think they're much more satisfied than i would say even a bit surprised by how much progress they made so far in the ground operation. >> progress in terms of literally how many -- how much ground they have been able to move forward on, or just casualties by the idf? how do they measure that? >> i think it's twofold. one, how fast they were able to reach the places they've reached so far inside gaza city, and second, the amount of casualties the idf had so far in this ground operation, it's close to 20 soldiers. that's not nothing, but i think they were concerned the casualties would be much higher. israeli officials acknowledged that there will be more casualties going forward. but they thought there will be more at this stage. and on the other hand, the amount of casualties they managed to create on the other side, they claimed that hundreds of hamas operatives were killed in the ground operation so far, and i think they sound pretty satisfied. >> this may be a dumb question, but in talking, when you talk to sources you have in the defense force, do they -- are they confident they know what they don't know? obviously, hamas has had a lot of time in gaza city to prepare for what -- since they were new -- knew when the october 7th attack would be and they knew what preparations they would make for inevitable israeli ground operation. how concerned do people you talk to sound about what awaits them when they're fully in gaza city? >> so first, everything that they thought will await them, awaited them. ieds, tunnels, booby traps, everything was there. but one thing that the idf noticed in the ground operation was that hamas' best soldiers participated in the october 7th attack. and most of them were killed in this attack. so right now, what the idf is facing is let's say the second tier of hamas' armed forces, and at least from what i hear from liz officials, it shows. meaning that in any engagement on the battlefield, the idf feels it is clear who is the stronger side, who is the -- which soldiers are more qualified, and at least again for now, they're very satisfied with the results. >> and what are you hearing about secretary blinken's trip, the likelihood of some sort of pause? they're not using the word "cease-fire" but talking about some sort of humanitarian pause. what's the reception to that going to be? >> so first, i got to tell you, anderson, i at least -- i don't think i totally understand what the biden administration means when it says a pause, because there are a thousand different ways to interpret it. what is clear, and i hear it both from israeli officials and from biden administration officials is nobody is talking about a ceasefire, mean access saying of hostilities that both sides just stop everything, each side goes back to its positions. that's not going to happen. and the question is, when you talk about humanitarian pause, for how long? is it a six-hour pause just to get a truck from one place to another? is it 24-hour, 48-hour pause to get hostages out? it's not very clear. and i think that it's definitely an issue that secretary blinken is going to raise in his meetings. but i don't think that's the reason he is coming to the region. one of the reason he is coming to the region is to have this conversation with prime minister netanyahu, look him in the eye, and say bibi, what's the plan for the day after? and even though we are still in the very early stages, it's a conversation the administration wants to have with netanyahu. >> is there a plan? >> no, there is no plan. and by the way, you know, it is almost natural that there is not going to be a plan at the moment. we are really in quite early stages of this operation. but what blinken wants to tell netanyahu is, listen, it's okay that you don't have a plan now, but if you're not going start thinking about one, then there might be a problem. and another thing, even if you don't have a plan, when israel goes on this ground operation, there may be things that israel wouldn't want to do during the ground operation, thinking about the day after. and this is another message that blinken will give netanyahu. >> brock ravid, thank you so much. appreciate it. >> thank you, anderson. more now on what hamas has been saying to the world on arabic language programs in the middle east, and what its spokesman and leaders are not saying when confronted with the barbarity of its attacks of civilians on october 7th. randi kaye has that. >> the existence of israel is illogical. >> reporter: hamas trying to control the narrative. >> the existence of israel is what causes all that pain, blood, and tears. >> reporter: that's gazi hamad, a senior hamas official, speaking out on lebanese tv. in the clip, he squarely blames israel for causing the october massacre carried out by hamas that left more than 1400 people dead. >> it is israel, not us. we are victims of the occupation, period. therefore, nobody should blame us for the things we do. on october 7th, october 10th, october one million, everything we do is justified. we must teach israel a lesson, and will do this again and again. the al aqsa flood is just a first time. and there will be a second, a third, a fourth, because we have the determination, the capabilities and the resolve to continue to fight. >> reporter: playing the role of victim, the terror organization designated a terro

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