moment, change has come to america. >> i will discuss barack obama, the first african american president of the united states lasting influence with valerie chair, ceo of the obama foundation. i am jonathan capehart. this is an extended edition of the saturday show. the israel-hamas war continues to rage on this morning. nearly 10,000 palestinians, including 3900 children, have been killed according to the ministry of health. in gaza. overnight clashes between israeli troops and hamas fighters continued as the israeli military says it has cut off all main roads into gaza city. nbc news has not been able to independently confirm that. this comes after america's top diplomat, secretary of state, anthony blinken, met with arab foreign ministers and jordan overnight. this follows the secretary's latest trip to israel where he called for a humanitarian pause in the conflict in gaza. israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu's quickly rejected the notion saying it's a real would be going full force until the, roughly, 240 hostages held by hamas are released. meanwhile, the conflict also playing a key role in american politics. how speaker mike johnson ended his first week with his first win tying 14.3 billion dollars in aid to israel to cuts to the iris, leaving out aid for ukraine. the bill will go nowhere, most likely, in the senate. it has been a busy first week for the speaker from saving congressman george santos from expulsion to beginning to lay the groundwork to avoid a government shutdown. joining me now, brendan buck, former chief communications adviser to former house speaker, paul ryan. former press secretary to former house speaker, john vader. and an msnbc legal analyst. jennifer reuben, an opinion writer at the washington post and author of, resistance how women save democracy from donald trump. and, former florida congressman, david jolly, an msnbc political analyst. thank you all very much for coming to the saturday show. i'm going to start with you, brandon. and we will go down the line. what are your overall impressions of speaker johnson in his first week on the job? >> he has kept the conference together, which is what key members of the house come preparing congress have been very happy. they have high marks for him. which is not nothing. i think the big question is, not? what the house is able to pass israel funding in a way that has no chance of actually becoming a law. the job of the speaker is not necessarily to get the keen together it is to think a little bit further down the road. to understand what tools he has to be able to govern unclear at this point whether there is a plan beyond what has happened in the house. very clearly the senate is going to be working against the house. there is a very poor track record of one party in one chamber being able to assert its well over the other chamber without working in a bipartisan way. it is very clear the senate is probably going to send a bipartisan package back to the house. i don't know if mike johnson has a plan at that point. he may just want to dig in for a fight. that will certainly make his conference happy. that is really what we need to keep an eye on. is this a speaker who is more focused on keeping his conference happy at the expense of, maybe, important policy? or, is he here to govern? we don't know that yet. the coming weeks will be very telling for what kind of speaker he is going to be. >> i made that very point last night on pbs news hour. is he going to continue to be a backbencher? or, will he fill in the role, what it means to be a speaker. jennifer, your view of speaker johnson's first week? >> first of all, he wasted a lot of time. he took these expulsion votes. one expulsion though and one votes to censor rashid tlaib. none of which went anywhere. he also, of course, passed this bill. the first time in history that any -- envisioned aid to israel on anything but he did in a way that also expanded the deficit by playing to his backbenchers, or his front benchers. and cutting funds to the irs. the actually would expand the deficit. none of this bodes well for sane, responsible, governance. i think that, so far, we do not have any indication that he is ready to actually govern in a responsible way. unfortunately, i think we are hurtling towards a shutdown. not to mention we have let our allies down. both israel and ukraine, as they're waiting for this vital aid. so for it has been incomplete, to put it generously. probably failing if you are looking at overall outcomes and decent governance. >> david jolly, you're view? three people on the screen, you are the one who actually served in that chamber as an elected member of congress. >> sure. but we are all analysts now. i agree with brandon in jennifer this morning. here is the way i contextualize mike johnson. i don't think we need to accept that it is a hard pivot to the right yet. i think it is just one foot in front of the other. in large part, because this is already the direction the caucus was going. tension has been building over the past ten years was because this was the direction that the maga caucus was going. mike johnson is now leading. that i think on this israel package kayla mccarthy would've done something very similar. i think they both started at the same place. the question, as brandon said, what happens when have we can lose this fly? does mike johnson show a different posture? is he willing to hold up any longer? is he willing to shut down the government after november 17th? we will not actually know that. i do think he had a misstep. i think this will become more obvious as we go on. he likes to say that he offset the spending for israel because it had to be physically responsible. as jennifer said, that is aligned. that is not actually true. that is a big mistake by mike johnson. we do know by withholding funding for the irs that the deficit goes up this year. why didn't they pick something else? they could've picked something else and still said, we were fiscally responsible. we offset our spending. they are trying to play to where their voters. are republican voters are on certain priorities. he missed it on this. one i think, eventually, that will catch up with him. >> brandon, i want you to put on your former hat since you served under to how. speakers speakers paul ryan and john boehner. and in your first answer you asked the question, rhetorically, does he, speaker, johnson have a plan? if you were on speaker johnson staff, or if you got a phone call, what would you tell him the plane should be? >> well, i don't have a problem with sending over to the senate and house marker. but i think you need to condition your members for the idea that there is going to need to be a negotiation. the idea that the house is gonna be able to jam the senate is very unlikely. it is much more likely the senators gonna be able to jam the house. this is about keeping your members bought into a plan. communicating to them what the plan actually is. what i have not heard from them is that he is willing to negotiate on some of these things. he seems to be drawing a lot of hard lines. i think what he will come to find out very quickly when you draw those hard lied, when you give false hope to some of your members, all you are doing in setting them up for disappointment. there are certain realities to governing that are incompatible with some of the wishes and, frankly, fantasies of the far-right. you need to be able to condition people for what is realistic and what is going to happen. in this negotiation they can pull together a package that is more to the liking of the house. that addresses ukraine in a more limited way. maybe puts guardrails on. it maybe it does have some money for the border. if they are working towards a reasonable outcome that they can have their fingerprints on, you can come back to the house and sell that. if, instead, he is going to dig his head into the sand and just hope we don't get jammed by the senate, that is a really tough place to be. e ultimately, when you fail, yor members are gonna be really disappointed because you got their hopes up. it is all about managing member expectations while you are doing the governing. >> jennifer, to that point, let's say that that does happen. a bill comes over from the senate and jansa house. suddenly, speaker johnson's caucus is really disappointed because they have been given the false hope. how likely is it that we would then see another motion to vacate measure put on the floor and have it succeed? >> the 64,000 dollar question, does he stand up to his members and then face the same fate that the previous speaker did or does he kept pitcher late and then we are into a shutdown? i have to say, i'm having a little bit of a flashback here. in the days when brendan used to work for a responsible republican speakers. they had a plan, they had an understanding of governance. they banked their head against the wall, occasionally, about some of their members but in the end they knew they had an obligation to govern, to get things done. i do not see any indication that this caucus is ready to do that. i think the chances of a shutdown are relatively high. >> david, do you agree with jennifer's assessment, which is also mine? >> look, the chances are always high for a government shutdown when you have republicans in charge of the house. it's just one of the tools that they don't think of this team which problem for the country, unfortunately. i do think the dynamic is different now. kevin mccarthy had a short runway. mike johnson does, as well. the difference is kevin's at the end of his runway in mike's at the beginning of his. i think there is a certain unity to the conference. i think a lot of people, even on the hard right, know that they will have to accept some concessions and give some concessions. johnson will probably leave. some of the dynamic i'm looking for is not israel, i think that will get passed. we are maybe there is a few shutdowns. republicans won't care. it is ukraine. there is not enough folks, the majority of the majority, i'm not sure where those numbers are in the republican party. there is such a hard split on ukraine that without border security, without a strong maga concession, what happens if mike johnson does have to sign off on the package with jeffries and schumer and president biden? that runway is short. i think he has some. probably under the next election. >> stay with us. we are going to continue the conversation with brandon, jennifer, and david after a quick break. break. closer to iconic landmarks, local life, and cultural treasures. because when you experience europe on a viking longship, you'll spend less time getting there and more time being there. viking. exploring the world in comfort. when the murrays discovered gain scent beads, they fell in love with the irresistible scent. ♪ ♪ huh, huh, so did their dog roger. ♪ ♪ gain scent beads keep even the stinkiest stuff smelling fresh. 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(dog bark) it's simply fresh meat and vegetables, with all the nutrients dogs need— instead of dried pellets. just food made for the health of dogs. delivered in packs portioned for your dog. it's amazing what real food can do. is it possible my network could take my business to the next level? it is with comcast business. powering all your devices with gig-speed wifi. and you get fast downloads and uploads. pick it up! pick it up! oh we got this! because it's powered by the next generation 10g network. more speed for your business? it's not just possible. it's happening. get started for $59.99 a month for 12 months. plus, ask how to get an $800 prepaid card with a qualifying internet bundle. back with me my illustrious comcast business, powering possibilities. panel brendan buck, jennifer reuben, former congressman david jolly. okay, we talked about how speaker johnson in his first week, but when he got with this israel only a package that got through. the trauma of what comes after the. but then there is, i think, a couple of tremors. that is the fact that republican congressman, ken buck, and congressman kay granger both announced retirements this week. brandon, should we expect more? >> we can always expect more. i think there is going to be probably a cascade of people who are the most responsible governing wing of the party leaving that has been a trend we've seen for a while. i haven't gone that long from the. hill this conference looks markedly different from when i was there. every reasonable, most reasonable, mild mannered folks who are there to get things done have been replaced by much further to the right members. much less reasonable folks. that trend is going to continue. kate ranger is the chair of the appropriations committee. she is, by definition of a role, they are to get things done and work together in a bipartisan way. her district is something like trump plus 18. very conservative. you have to imagine that scene is going to be fit by someone probably a little less interested in working with democrats. again, this is something we've been seeing for three or four cycles now. this is going to be a pretty small problem solver caucus. the mainstream caucus left after the last cycle, i mention. >> congressman granger has been there since 96. you are not only losing someone who is in the chairs appropriation committee but she has institutional knowledge it seems like the current crew folks couldn't care less about. jennifer, let's move the conversation to the senate. tommy tuberville is continuing to block military promotions over pentagon abortion policy. even his fellow republicans are not happy about this. they took to the floor and excoriated the guy. now there is more controversy after tuberville spokesperson was privately floating primary challengers for senators who voted to in and run across to propose blockade. your reaction to the seeming republican rebellion against tuberville? >> well, it just shows you how out of whack, even for this period of time, even for the senate, which is farther to the right and i think it is ever been. there is discomfort, there is understanding that he is harming national security. this is becoming an issue for them. they look really ridiculous. the problem is a must they and the democrats are willing to change the rules than this is going to go on. i want to underscore this point. he gets to do this because the rules allow him. if they want to stop whining, change the rules! >> you know, david, as jennifer was talking we had video on the side of senator tuberville. in that conversation he was asked, by the guy on the left from a rival network -- cnn, asking him his reaction to the fact that the marine commandant, they finally got him confirmed. he is doing to full-time, massively important, jobs. he had a heart attack. manu asked him, you know, your blockades is having a real impact on people. senator tuberville said, i'm paraphrasing here, well he is gonna work long hours anyway. so, what's the big deal? he's got 20 people who work for him. look, when you are in these jobs -- basically, this comes with the territory. i used to do that in mile job. his old job was a football coach as a college! please! i would love to hear your reaction to, not just the blockade of these military promotions but the nerve of the guy comparing himself to a military commander whose job it is is to send armed forces into harm's way. >> jonathan, a bit of a personal opinion here but i think the alabama senator has shown himself a fool this past year. i think many of his republican colleagues know that. to jennifer's point it would only take nine of them decider democrats and change the rule. i do think we get caught up sometimes in this process but it is right, as jennifer has said, to focus in on the real impact on the compromise national security. there is a theme on what is going on in the house. the apparent abandonment of a strong support for ukraine in a fight against worship. a tying of aid to israel. the republican senators, not just tuberville but of others to allow own leadership hugo weekend. it's the dot they have no case to go online to have not been strong on national security. also at the root of this is the policy reproductive rights for women in the military. for that, tuberville is wrong. it goes back again to the house because of this. i realized it is difficult times to talk about religion in politics but with mike johnson, we have not seen for a while someone who is over in their fate. hile someone whyou have to think of e like mike pence. everyone should be given wide license to practice their own fate. i think we could be approaching the question about using faith in government. early on in a conversation he said, look, the idea of life and liberty is to give liberty and freedom to all people. women, transgender, tomorrowland communities. is mike johnson willing to use his faith and power to recognize the freedom of all people? tuberville is not. republican senators, apparently, are not. what does mike johnson do with the fake conversation? it can go one of two ways. if it goes the wrong way the electoral impact on republicans could be very significant. >> in an interview after his election as speaker he told, i believe it was sean hannity, in a fox news interview when asked what are your policy positions? he said, open the bible. you can read what my policy positions -- what they are based on. former congressman david jolly, jennifer reuben, brendan who joe -- we are out of time thank you very much for coming to the saturday show. coming up, officer harry dunn was on duty at the u.s. capitol during the january 6th insurrection. he is sharing his experience in a new book. he joins me next to discuss that, and more, including if he is considering running for office. stay with us. xploding. but my old internet, was not letting me run the show. so, we switched to verizon business internet. they have business grade internet, nationwide. (vo) make the switch. it's your business. it's your verizon. in a crisis caused by a terrorist massacre. warning civilians to clear out, while hamas forces them back. allowing in food and water, which hamas steals. right now get a free footlong at subway. like the new deli heroes. buy one footlong in the app, get one free. it's a pretty big deal. kinda like me. order in the subway app today. sometimes jonah wrestles with falling asleep... ...so he takes zzzquil. the world's #1 sleep aid brand for a better night sleep. so now, he wakes up feeling like himself. the reigning family room middle-weight champion. better days start with zzzquil nights. the january 6th insurrection left a stain on american democracy. we watched in shock and disbelief as an angry mob stormed the u.s. capitol to try to overturn the 2020 election. capitol police, outnumbered and overwhelmed, faced a tidal wave of violence including my next guest, who has become a steadfast voice in the fight for justice and accountability. in his new book, he provided a firsthand account of the trauma t