implicitly and explicitly go at the stirrers and say it was never fair and he never had a chance, your lawyer chose them, spoke to them personally. this was not the judge. at the end of the day, you picked the jurors, you did not object, and we got the outcome that we have. >> thank you both, that is all in for this week. alex wagner tonight starts now. >> you are not going to have kokomo played well for the weekend? >> how good was that clip? >> i got to say, i was laughing. maybe that's what needs to happen. >> shout out to our beloved and arranged senior producer who watches that show every morning. >> listen, i would take the beach boys kokomo live at fox square, whatever that was, over tearing down the rule of law. bring the beach boys back. whatever you got to do. thank you, my friend, have a great weekend. so, it really happened. donald trump is been convicted on 34 felony counts in the state of new york. and there is been a lot of reaction to that news, including and especially outrage and accusations from republicans. but if i had to pick one response that is worth paying particularly close attention to, it would be this comment from the country's highest ranking republican. >> i do believe the supreme court should step in, obviously. this is totally unprecedented. people have to believe that justice is fair, that there is equal justice under law. they don't see that right now. and i think the justices on the court, i know many of them personally. i think they are is deeply concerned about that as we are. i think they will set this straight, but it is going to take a while. >> okay, set aside a moment that very questionable bit about speaker johnson claiming to have a personal relationship with presumably the conservatives on the high court. the speaker of the house is saying that the supreme court should step in and overturn donald trump's conviction. can they do that? can the supreme court upend justice here? well, to answer that question we have to talk about what comes next for the convicted former president. first, there is the sentencing. trump is scheduled to be sentenced on july 11th. he faces up to four years in prison, though the judge could also let him off of probation. which some experts say is typical for this type of crime. ahead of that hearing, trump will sit for an interview with the probation officer, who will put together what is called a presentence report to get a sense of trump's character and his behavior. that officer will then make a recommendation as to how heavy or how light trump's sentence should be. on one hand, trump has never been convicted of a crime before now, which should weigh in favor of a lighter sentence. on the other, trump has shown precisely 0 remorse for the crimes he has just been convicted of. he has attacked the judicial process throughout his entire trial, and he has repeatedly violated the gag order that prohibits him from talking outside of court about the parties involved in this case. that gag order is still very much in effect, and this morning trump likely violated it again when he talked about star witness michael cohen without exactly mentioning his name. >> by the way, this was a highly qualified lawyer. i'm not allowed to use his name because of the gag order. but you know, he's a sleazebag. everybody knows that. >> so, all of that might suggest a stricter sentence. once trump is sentenced he can beneficially appeal his conviction. right after sentencing trump will have 30 days to file a notice of appeal, basically indicating to the court that he intends to keep fighting his conviction. then, depending on a sentence, trump will have anywhere from 4 to 6 months to actually appeal. all of this would potentially stretch past the election and towards the end of this year, possibly as late as december. then the prosecution will get time, usually several months to file its response to trump's appeal. once that happens the cases than in the hands of the new york appellate division's first department, which is composed of 21 justices. despite a picture that went viral today showing five of the justices who are all black women and suggesting that donald trump's fate would be in their hands, there is no reason to believe that specifically these five desk justices would be the ones to hear the appeal, or, by the way, that there would be anything wrong with it if they are chosen. again, the case is not likely to reach that court until sometime next year, and it could take that court until early 2026 to make its decision. so, what about speaker mike johnson's fever dream of the supreme court stepping in? well, let's say the appellate court decides to uphold trump's conviction. if trump loses that first appeal he can then appeal again to new york's highest court. in any other state that would be the state supreme court, but new york is weird. you probably already knew that. here we call our highest court the new york court of appeals, which isn't confusing at all. but if trump takes his case all the way to new york's highest court and loses, he has one last hail mary. can you guess what it is? it is the supreme court. now, the supreme court is not obligated to hear any appeals from state court. but, given the way this particular supreme court has treated this particular defendant, you probably can't rule it out. in other words, there is a chance that sometime in the not- too-distant future donald trump could have his 34 felony convictions thrown out by a rogue conservative supreme court. in the meantime, donald trump, felon and front runner, has to continue to work his way through the appeals process, just like any other defendant. and while that happens, trump is taking his fight to the court of public opinion. where he is intent on trying to undermine the integrity of the american judicial system. today the former president posted this video to his social media platform. >> this is a manufactured criminal case. >> ridiculous charges. >> what happened today was offensive to the constitution. >> they never articulated the crime here. >> awakened the sleeping giant. >> what the radical left democrats are counting on is your submission. no one's going to stop us, no one's going to slow us down. the only way for us to fight back successfully is to let donald trump win. see my the real verdict will be on november 5th. he couldn't be more right. >> don't get mad, get motivated. >> we will fight for our constitution. thank you very much. >> 20 me now are anna bauer, legal fellow in quartz correspondent for l'affaire, and duncan levin, assistant attorney for the district of new york. i see you guys both have notes, that's good. i have a lot of questions. first, duncan, just weigh in on the prospects of an appeal here. trump is clearly going to appeal. >> and appeal is 100% likely. to get to the united states supreme court, really all you need is five friends on the united states supreme court and a pathway to get there, and you have grounds for reversal. the first stop is the new york state appellate courts. i think you are likely to see a number of arguments that really go nowhere. mr. trump is going to throw his loggers under the bus for not objecting, like he has done for every other lawyer, not objecting enough during stormy daniels's testimony and letting all the salacious details come in. of course, that is the reason the prosecutors brought out that testimony in the first place, to show the power of stormy daniels's testimony. and the story that was going to come out on the heels of that access hollywood tape, he is going to argue that he could not get a fair jury pool in new york as he is so notorious here, although that is largely true of anywhere he gets a trial. he is going to argue there is a novel application of this statute that has never been used before, although just because it is novel doesn't mean they can't do it. >> can we pause on that? i have asked other lawyers whether they think this is novel, and i get different responses. writing in politico today, if trump has a good path to appeal, it is based on the idea that state law is effectively nixing what federal law in this case. can you break that down? >> i don't think that's actually going to be the most effective pathway into federal court for him, and that is because if you take a step back and look what this case is, it is the mr. trump cause the falsification of business records with the intent to conceal a conspiracy to promote his election by unlawful means. it does not say that the unlawful means can't be a violation of federal law. there is nothing saying that it needs to be state law. >> there were three options that i think the judge outline. one was tax laws, one was falsification of other business records, and the other was a federal campaign finance law. so that's eye exam? >> you did very well. and i have to say, i think that is exactly where this appeal is going to lie to get him into federal court. there is this concept of a writ of habeas corpus, and this is all going to start in the state appellate courts. for that reason, i don't think we will see the end to this in the state courts before the election. but he is going to try to get into federal court on this writ of habeas corpus that his federal constitutional rights were violated. and i think there is no new york state law that says that there has to be unanimity on the means by which he unlawfully promoted his election. but there is some federal law out there that says that where the facts are so complicated or the facts are so different there has to be a unanimity direction given to the jury. and if there isn't, that it could theoretically violate a defendant's sixth amendment rights under the united states constitution to a fair trial. i am not saying that is a meritorious appeal, but that is going to be has pathway to the federal courts, that there is federal law talking about his sixth amendment right in the united states constitution, as opposed to the violation of the new york state constitutional rights. and once against a federal court he is going to be rocketing up to his five friends on the supreme court. once he gets his foot in the door there, that's what his plan is going to be. >> your nodding along. >> yeah, i think there is a different issue, as well, the deals with the mixing of state and federal law which is preemption, i think, as you mentioned, the three unlawful means, one of them being bees campaign finance violations which is federal law. and within preemption there is this idea that states can't, within -- infringe on this if was a domain of federal regulations. so there is going to be this argument that justice merchan erred by allowing the jury to consider the these unlawful means as specifically the federal ones. i don't think that is going to be a convincing argument, though. keep in mind, this preemption argument is one that they already made last summer. they tried to remove the proceedings to federal court from state court to federal court. >> something they have done in other cases. >> in georgia, exactly. yes, exactly. so, what judge heller, the federal judge, said, is no, there is no issue of preemption here. why? because this is not a law that targets any of these federal campaign finance issues, it is just a state law, the object defense is a state law. it just happens to be that one aspect of that state law has to do a little bit with the campaign finance. but remember, there is nothing here that requires prosecutors to actually prove any kind of campaign finance. >> that's right, there was a poo poo platter of options, to put it in layman's terms. >> intent to conceal. there is nothing here that really is a conflict between the state and federal laws, that is what judge hellerstein said, and trump's team decided after that to not appeal that decision. if you look at the decisional law it really would be inconsistent. >> it is heavy lift. >> what is the scuttlebutt on the appeals court? the second highest. 21 justices, i know it is hard to generalize given the number of justices there. but do you think that they would be inclined to hear, to give trump the benefit of the doubt? >> the intermediate appellate court is a matter of right. he has the right to appeal there. whether the court of appeals, the highest one. >> i know, the second highest court. the first division. >> the appellate division is the middle one. it is definitely going there. whether it goes to the court of appeals is something that is discretionary, it probably will, given the weight of the case. but there is really nothing under state law that he has a right to stand on. so to the extent that he has any real shot of getting this overturned, it is going to be in the federal courts. even that, look, it is a longshot to get anything overturned. if your name is donald trump maybe you have a better chance in the federal courts, because this is a case that is a category all to its own. >> yeah, i am looking at the supreme court there was not even supposed to take up the immunity case and is now seriously deliberating over it. could have remanded back to district court. what is your expectation about the supreme court getting involved in this? >> look, as you said, alex, it's going to be a little while. i think if they do get involved i think it will have to go through up to the new york court of appeals. but i do think that, you know, it seems like donald trump, as you said, you've got to have five friends on the supreme court. seems like donald trump does have five friends on the supreme court. but i think it really just depends on the issues. if there are any of these issues that are attractive to the supreme court, it may very well be the preemption argument that we just discussed. although, i do think it is a really heavy lift, and it would kind of upend a lot of the established law. >> that sounds like it is tailor-made. >> is one of those moments you wish you had a supreme court that was not enmeshed with all these controversies, where you would believe that if they took a case it would be on the merits of it and not because they are fully radicalized in any way. >> waving and insurrectionist flag in front of their beachhouse, yes. >> that they are actually looking at the lawn of fairway. if he can get a federal court all bets are off in this case is unlike any other, and mr. trump has a rocket up to them. >> when you say a rocket, just to be clear, can he circumvent the appellate division in new york? he has to go through this many month long procedure before he can do an end run? is that right? >> the law is pretty clear that this will go to the new york state appellate process. it is to be completely exhausted before the federal courts can step in on this writ of habeas corpus. it's really his only way in. >> so we could be looking at 2025, 2026. who knows who is president. who knows if there is still time lexi or probation? and maybe the supreme court getting involved. >> we could be sitting here years from now talking about this. >> what can go wrong? well, it is great to see you guys. thank you so much for helping me and all of us through this. we will break down the furious political reaction on the right to yesterday's verdict. but first, president biden offered a measured reaction to trump's's convection today at an official white house event. will that change once he is the campaign trail? we are going to ask one of the campaign at national co-chairs for biden's campaign. that is next. to be able to make a difference in someone's lives in a way that is meaningful. looking for a smarter way to mop? 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