Transcripts For CNNW Anderson Cooper 360 20120503 : vimarsan

CNNW Anderson Cooper 360 May 3, 2012



11 participants, that's one of them with hazing. in convicted the maximum anyone could face would be six years in prison. again, the question is why not murder or manslaughter charges? one answer says state prosecutors is that it would be tough getting convictions with the evidence that they have. >> the testimony obtained to date does not support a charge of murder in that it does not contain the elements of murder. we can prove participation in hazing and a death. we do not have a blow or a shot or a knife thrust that killed mr. champion. it is an aggregation of things which exactly fit the florida statute as written by the legislature. >> well, that statute was written seven years ago with the best intentions to hold people accountable for hazing deaths. you have to wonder, though, does the very fact that it's on the books allow some people to pay lighter penalties for causing someone's death than would otherwise be the case? the attorney for the champion family says so. he calls it a loophole. you'll hear from him and robert champion's own mother in just a moment. the fact is if the people accused of beating robert champion to death on this bus were charged with and convicted of manslaughter they'd face up to 15 years in prison, not the 6 years of convicted felony hazing. the hazing statute identify the same offense, the unlawful taking of life whether by act or by negligence or recklessness. then there's the question of accountability on the part of the university and the elite band which has a history of brutal hazing. here's what happened late last year when jason carroll tried to get answers from a&m's president, james emmons. >> do you believe you bear personally any responsibility for what has happened to any of these students here? >> personal responsibility? i have done everything in accordance to the law here in the state of florida. >> five days later a&m's trustees deferred a vote on president's ammons' future as well as the band director, julian white. they said they wanted to wait until the champion investigation was complete. we asked the university now that charges have been brought whether they're planning to take any action on the two men. we got no answer. president ammons is still president. julian white is on administrative leave, but still collecting a paycheck. and robert champion, as you know, is dead. dead at the age of 26. his mother, pam, who joins us shortly, says hazing does not begin to describe what was done to her son. she says the charges today don't fit the crime. first randi kaye with how this nightmare began. >> reporter: in some sort of sick ritual, robert champion, a 26-year-old drum major from florida's a&m university, is beaten as his fellow band members watch. it's november 19th, 2011, in orlando. after a football game that included a halftime performance by the group. on board the bus, members of the famu marching 100, a band member calls 911. >> are you with him right now? >> yes, i am with him, ma'am. he's not breathing. i tried to give him cpr and he started to vomit. >> days later on november 22nd, it's announced champion's death is the result of a hazing incident. they call it crossing bus c. an initiation during which pledges attempt to run down the center aisle of the bus to the back while being punch, kicked and assaulted by senior members. >> what was done to my son was wrong. it was brutal. he had nobody that would help him. >> reporter: that same day, november 22nd, the university's president, james ammons, announces the suspension of any and all performances and engagements for the band and other ensembles. he speaks that night at a memorial vigil in tallahassee. >> we encourage all of you to spread the message that famu has a zero tolerance for hazing, and that any alleged acts of hazing will be dealt with as a criminal act. >> reporter: band director julian white is also there. >> i loved that young man. the 100 is better because he was one of us. the community is better because he lived among us. his march has ceased. but his memory will linger on. >> reporter: the next day, november 23rd, band director white is told he's going to be terminated in december. he hires an attorney. later he's put on administrative leave with pay while the case is investigated. his attorney now wants him reinstated. december 1st, four students are dismissed from the university in connection with champion's death. about two weeks later, december 16th, the medical examiner rules robert champion's death a homicide, after finding he collapsed and died within an hour of the hazing incident. the m.e. said champion had excessive internal bleeding due to soft tissue hemorrhage and blunt force trauma. >> no one could have expected that his college experience would include being pummeled to death. >> reporter: on december 19th, the school's board of trustees rejects a request from florida governor rick scott to suspend university president james ammons, announcing he will stay in office during the hazing investigation. but this isn't the first hazing investigation at florida a&m. cnn has learned since 2001, there have been at least six incidents. days before robert champion's death, 26 band members were suspended for landing a freshman clarinet player in the hospital. her legs had been beaten with fists and a metal ruler. earlier this year, four band members were charged with the beating of five pledges. between 2002 and 2011, according to the "miami herald," more than 100 band members had been kicked out due to hazing. in the case of robert champion, on january 12th, friends speculate champion's sexual orientation was a possible factor in the hazing. his parents and their lawyer stress this is not a hate crime, this is a hazing crime. and finally, after six months of interviewing nearly 50 witnesses, on may 2nd, florida state attorney announces not murder, but misdemeanor hazing charges against 13 individuals. of those, 11 are also charged with a felony, hazing to death. whatever happened that awful day, those involved will have to answer for it. as soon as the florida department of law enforcement can track them down. randi kaye, cnn, atlanta. >> questions remain about the charges and accountability. earlier tonight i spoke with robert champion's mom, pam, and their family attorney. christopher chestnut. mrs. champion, the charges today for felony hazing could bring up to six years in prison. do you feel that these charges go far enough? >> my first reaction is no. i was very disappointed in hearing what the charges would be, and i was very disappointed in that, but they did explain to me the reasoning behind that. of course my first reaction was i was very, very disappointed. my husband and i both, we were anticipating something that was a little more harsh. >> something -- were you hoping for some sort of murder or manslaughter charge? >> yes. >> do you feel that there are others who are still accountable who have not been named? >> absolutely. oh, yes, absolutely. >> how so? >> well, we know if we had a bus full of people and you only have 13, you know, absolutely there are some that has not been part of the investigation or interviews or whatever a proper name for it would be. >> the prosecutor today described hazing as a form of bullying. he called it, and i quote, bullying with a tradition. do you agree with that? do you think it is a form of bullying? >> well, you know, the term "hazing" in itself is a very light term as to what it is. i don't look at it as being a form of bullying. hazing is a very brutal assault is basically what it is, against another person. >> so you think using that term "hazing" puts a veneer of -- kind of lessens the horror of it? >> absolutely. i've always said the term "hazing" is not fitting for what is being done to an individual, especially for what happened to my son. hazing is not the term at all. >> mr. chestnut, you still have a civil lawsuit pending against the company that owns the bus where the hazing took place. is that the only group you can go after? what about going after the school? >> oh, we will absolutely sue the school. statutorily, in florida, we have to wait six months before we sue a government entity and the school is a government entity. we anticipate filing a lawsuit against the school in the foreseeable future. >> and also against the bus company? >> well, we have already sued the bus company, correct, and the bus driver. >> do you have a monetary amount you're looking for? >> no. at this time, we're just propounding discovery. trying to get answers. trying to get people locked down into statements, taking deposition, et cetera. we're trying to figure out exactly what happened, figure out who's accountable and to what extent they're accountable. >> mrs. champion, i mean, how are you and your family getting through this? how do you -- how do you deal with this? >> well, we have no choice but to do the best we can. basically, each moment, each minute of the day, each day is a journey, and certainly this journey that we, my family and i have been on has been a very tough journey. in lieu of everything else that not only just losing my son and that's my only son, in such a brutal way, but everything that surrounds the whole case has been disappointing as well. so it's hard for the family. >> do you think authorities don't understand the impact of this, given the charges that they filed, or do you think that this is just what they could come up with in a legal framework? >> well, i don't know if i can make a statement towards that, because i'm not a lawyer, so i don't know all the legal verbiage around things, but certainly the crime that was done is just -- you definitely expect to set a statement, to set an example, to say that this is no longer accepted. in order to do that, you have to set a real example of what has happened. >> anderson, legally, this is a six-year sentence maximum. robert champion has a lifetime sentence. but there is a legislative loophole here under the statute which allows hazing to be charged and precludes the charging of murder or felony murder here. >> christopher chestnut, i appreciate you being with us and pam champion, i'm so sorry for your loss and i appreciate you speaking tonight. thank you. let's dig deep and i want to bring in jeffrey toobin. you believe the prosecution has the right charge. >> well, based upon what i have seen of the evidence, this is certainly a justified charge. whether they could have done more strikes me as difficult. i think it would be very difficult to prove manslaughter given the fact this is a very chaotic scene on this bus. and they have to prove each person beyond a reasonable doubt committed the crime. and given the difficulty of assembling evidence, i just think it would be very difficult to get manslaughter. >> they say they don't even know who gave a death blow, if there was one blow in particular. they just don't have the evidence. >> i thought that was very interesting what the prosecutor said, they don't have that. the hazing law makes that requirement much less tight, much less difficult for the prosecution. they simply have to show that the defendants were involved in hazing and the death was caused. if it was a manslaughter case, they would have to prove precisely how he died and who killed him. >> is it possible, though, that now that charges have been brought that somebody will turn state's evidence? that somebody will negotiate some sort of a deal and, therefore, a manslaughter charge could be brought if somebody saw something? >> when you have a 13 defendant case it is almost always the case someone winds up pleading guilty and cooperating, often more than one person. that could lead to further charges, but again it would depend whether that person could put such specific evidence in front of a grand jury to say, look, this individual caused the injury that caused his death, that strikes me as a difficult thing. >> the civil case that they have already filed against the bus company, the driver, also they're going to file against the school, do you have any doubt that that will be successful? >> well, it seems like certainly against the university it seems like a slam dunk civil case. when you look at how much hazing has gone on at the university for so long and the university, for whatever reason, failed to stop it, that looks like a very -- a lawsuit that's very likely to produce a very large damage award. >> and is it up to the jury to come up with the damages? >> yes, in florida it is but they get some guidance from the judge and from the law but this could be an enormous verdict given how much warning this university had that hazing was a problem, particularly with the band. >> jeffrey toobin, thanks very much. let us know what you think about these charges. are they the right charges? we're on facebook, google plus. follow me on twitter. @andersoncooper. up next, the apparent suicide of an nfl great, junior seau, and questions about whether it was connected to brain injuries he may have sustained on the field or something else. "360" m.d. sanjay gupta joins us. same great taste. splenda® essentials™. the death of another nfl star is once again raising serious concerns about life-altering and sometimes life-ending brain injuries some players suffer. this morning at his home north of san diego, police say the 12-time pro bowl linebacker junior seau put a gun to his chest and then pulled the trigger. his death, they say, is being investigated as a suicide. the loss is sending shock waves through the teams he played on, especially in the san diego area, where he was a community icon. this afternoon his mother tried to speak to reporters, but was understandably overcome by loss. >> he never say something to me. junior, why you never telling me. i pray to god, take me. take me. leave my son alone. thank you. thank you so much for everybody. god bless you. >> as we mentioned, the apparent suicide is only the latest in a string of retired players taking their own lives, some of whom showed signs of dementia that many experts now suspect could be career related. in a moment we'll talk to dr. sanjay gupta, he's investigated this phenomena a lot. but first, the latest from paul vercammen. paul? >> reporter: well, anderson, just a short time ago i did talk to a police lieutenant about that, was there a note left that indicated he might have killed himself with a gunshot to the chest and was there a note that might have said i'm doing so, so there can be research done on my brain. she said they have not heard that yet but there was certainly a lot of buzz around here about that possibility. you can see behind me this is the home of junior seau. so many people along this stretch known as the strand in oceanside have come up and left flowers. you can see a gentleman down there right now kneeling in front of junior seau's house. this is where he had this idyllic life. he lived in this home. he would walk across the strand every day, not more than just a few yards and go off to the ocean. they all knew around here as someone who really enjoyed surfing. so this is where junior seau had spent his life in the last few years. i don't know if you can tell because the tide is high but they put together a makeshift cross out of rocks here to honor junior seau. when you talk to people in the neighborhood, they talk about how friendly he was, that he seemed to have everything. he would stop and talk to people here about the surf, about, you know, just enjoying life in oceanside. he was from oceanside. he played his high school football here, anderson. and this whole community today has been absolutely rocked. they're all wondering why, anderson. >> yeah, it's a question everyone asks in the wake of a suicide. it's hard to know if it was related to anything he experienced because of playing football, but he had had struggles in recent years. in 2010, i understand he drove himself off a california cliff. is there much known about that incident? >> reporter: yes, there is. what happened was is junior at the time had a 25-year-old live-in girlfriend. there was an arrest of junior for spousal battery, as they put it here in oceanside. he bailed himself out and then later, nearby in carlsbad, he did drive off a cliff. there's two versions of this. his former teammates will say, well, we talked to junior and he said he fell asleep at the wheel. the other side of that is did he do so deliberately and was he trying to commit suicide. when authorities found him, he was conscious and talking and he made no mention of an intent to kill himself at that point, anderson. >> all right, paul vercammen, appreciate the latest. because of the possibilities in this tragedy, we want to dig deeper and bring in 360 neurosurgeon, dr. sanjay gupta. sanjay, several nfl players have committed suicide and brain-related injuries they sustained while playing have been blamed. it's impossible to know what was going on in junior seau's mind at this point. is it possible that past head traumas could have played a role in seau's taking his own life? >> i think we have enough evidence to say yes, because you're starting to see a pattern of exactly what you're describing here, anderson, this idea that the previous blows to the head, trauma, for example, sustained on a football field can accumulate over time and lead to something known as chronic traumatic encephalopathy. cte. a lot more people know this term than even a couple months ago. it's a dementia-like illness. they may have memory loss, depression, anger, those are the cardinal symptoms. what's so striking here, yo alluded to this, just like dave duerson, we talked about him in 2011, he shot himself in the chest as well. it's a very unusual way, a rare way for one to commit suicide and it's hard to talk about. but in duerson's case that paul was alluding to saying i shot myself in the chest, i'd like my brain to be studied. his brain was studied and he did have exactly what he was concerned about, cte, that was confirmed when they studied his brain. so there's a lot of parallels here with what happened with junior seau and dave duerson and lots of other players as well. >> it is a rare way to kill yourself and a strange thing to do unless you do want somebody to be studying your brain, i guess, to try to preserve your brain. how many concussions does someone have to sustain before getting some kind of permanent damage to the brain? >> well, let me preface by saying, look, what we're talking about is very new science, so it's being sort of studied right now, so there's not an exact answer to that. there's two beats that i should point out. one is there are some people who appear to be much more susceptible to concussions. we're not entirely sure why in the scientific community, but people who have multiple concussions from hits to the head that wouldn't cause concussions in other players. but even more to the point, i did a little bit of homework on junior seau's career today. he wasn't known as someone who had a lot of concussions. he had leg injuries, he had other injuries. but what is particularly concerning to a lot of researchers are known as subconcussive hits. the player gets back on the field and thinks nothing of it. those subconcussive hits can accumulate and that's what they are worried about in terms of its link to this chronic traumatic encephalopathy. >> we have a digital dashboard question from jp nicandro. how chronic are chronic traumatic neurological illnesses in the nfl? >> i visited the lab, the sports legacy institute in boston, where they have been doing this research for a couple of years. they examined brains of lots of different people, different athletes, but specifically with regard to nfl players. there have been 19 brains examined. 18 of them had evidence of this chronic traumatic enaccept lop -- enc

Related Keywords

Robert Champion , People , Charges , Manslaughter , Question , Murder , Florida A M , Killing , None , One , Hazing , Oman , Crossing Bus C , Florida , Bandmates , Band Bus , Aisle , Prosecutors , Victim , Anyone , Answer , Prison , Participants , State Prosecutors , 11 , Six , Evidence , Testimony , Charge , Participation , Convictions , Elements , Things , Statute , Death , Champion , Blow , Mr , Knife Thrust , Aggregation , Shot , The Legislature , Seven , Someone , Fact , Slam Dunk , Family , Attorney , Loophole , Hazing Deaths , Books , Intentions , Penalties , Wonder , Bus , Mother , 15 , 6 , University , Band , Felony Hazing , Part , Accountability , Hazing Statute , Offense , Negligence , Recklessness , History , Unlawful Taking Of Life Whether By Act Or , James Emmons , Responsibility , Students , Jason Carroll , Everything , Law , Estate , Vote , Accordance , Trustees , Five , Medical Examiner Rules Robert Champion , Julian White , Investigation , James Ammons , Planning , Action , Men , Ammons , Two , Reporter , Son , U S , Crime , Pam , Randi Kaye , Leave , Age , Nightmare , Don T , Paycheck , 26 , Band Members , Football Game , Florida S A M University , Fellow , Ritual , November 19th , Orlando , 19 , 2011 , November 19th 2011 , Group , Members , Halftime Performance , Marching 100 , Ma Am , Him , 911 , 100 , Hazing Incident , Pledges , Result , Center , Initiation , Cpr , November 22nd , 22 , Punch , President , Back , Nobody , Kicked , Suspension , Many , Performances , Ensembles , Engagements , Memorial Vigil In Tallahassee , Message , Criminal Act , Facts , Zero Tolerance , Zero , Community , One Of Us , Memory , The Next Day , March , Band Director , Pay , December 1st , 23 , November 23rd , 1 , Four , December 16th , Connection , M E , 16 , College Experience , Hemorrhage , Tissue , Bleeding , Blunt Force Trauma , The School , Board Of Trustees , December 19th , Rick Scott , Office , Request , Hazing Investigation , Isn T The First Hazing Investigation , Hospital , Freshman Clarinet Player , Cnn , Landing A , Incidents , Ruler , Legs , Fists , 2001 , Beating , Miami Herald , 2002 , Parents , Lawyer , Hazing Crime , Hate Crime , Factor , Stress , Friends , Sexual Orientation , On January 12th , 12 , January 12th , Misdemeanor Hazing Charges , Felony , Individuals , Witnesses , Florida State Attorney , On May 2nd ,

© 2025 Vimarsana