0 >> no, they are not. >> and where is nicholas? >> he is an active duty marine. >> and where is that at? >> he's currently stationed in florida. >> and your other son, where is he at? >> in college in north dakota. >> and are they going to be home for the holidays? >> yes, they will. >> is your mother in the courtroom? >> yes. >> and your sister? >> no, she's not. >> but is your brother in the courtroom? >> yes, he is. >> and besides your brother and your mother and your father is deceased? >> yes. >> and do you have any other siblings? >> i have another sister and a brother. >> do you know what their ages are? >> my sister, my oldest sister is in her 50s, and my other brother is in his 50s also. >> what do they do for a living? >> my sister works for a medical device company. my oldest brother works for a parking company, and my other brother works for retail. >> going back to when you were a youngster, where did you go to elementary school? >> immaculate conception catholic school. >> and where was that located or is located? >> columbia heights, minnesota. >> and did you live in that neighborhood? >> yes, i did. >> while you were at elementary school, while you were going to that school, did you have a police officer visit your school? >> yes. >> and do you actually know his name today? >> yes, it's officer michael mcgee. >> and where was he a police officer at in. >> the columbia heights police department. >> and why was he at your school? >> he was doing bicycle safety for school kids. >> and you remembered his name. anything else that was significant about him that caused you to do something in your life? >> he was -- on that occasion he really influenced me as a youngster that the police are good people and i wanted to be something like that some day. >> and because of that and because of him being at your school, did you start out doing that? >> yes. >> and what was your first job or volunteer work as some type of a law enforcement officer, student, explorer, school cop? >> well, the first thing i did -- in junior high i was a school patrol officer if that counts. >> yes, it does count. >> and what does d a school patrol officer go back then? >> it was junior high so we helped the younger grade school aged children get across the street. >> and did you continue to do that throughout junior high? >> yes, sixth, seventh and eighth grade. >> and after getting into high school what, did you do? >> the police department came to my high school and had a booth set up for police explorers. >> and did you join the explorers? >> yes, i did. >> why did you joint explorers? first of all, what is an explorer? >> it's part of the boy scouts of america. it's where you can have career enhancement. you can learn about different jobs like law enforcement or fire fighting, things of that nature. >> and were you an explorer throughout your high school days? >> yes, i was. >> i can't remember if i asked you what high school you went to. >> tatino lakes high school. >> with respect to criminal justice or law enforcement while you were in high school besides being an explorer did you do anything else? >> i had jobs. >> okay. what was your job? >> my first job was at a gas station. >> what did you do that? >> clerk, cashier. >> and did you continue that job in high school? >> yes, and into college. >> okay. so your next visit was college? >> yes. where did you go to visit? >> st. mary's college in winona, minnesota. >> that's about what, 70 miles from here, 80 miles? >> yeah, it's down towards lacrosse. >> okay. it's in winona? >> yes. >> and did you -- what was your major at st. mary's? >> criminal justice and sociology with an emphasis on elderly studies or geriatric sociology. >> why did you take those courses? >> i wanted to go into law enforcement, and i had an interest in serving the older community and understanding their needs and wants. >> did you graduate from st. mary's? >> yes, i did. >> and was that a three-year program, four-year program? >> it was a four-year program. i finished it in three and a half because i had an internship in the summer. >> where did you internship? >> columbia heights police department. >> yes. >> where what you do at the police department? >> i was assigned to an officer there who was in community oriented policing program. >> were you also -- did you also continue your explorer career while in college? >> i stopped being an explorer after my freshman year, and then i role played at the annual conference. >> what does that mean? >> every year the explorer program had an annual conference at breezy point resort and needed role players and they liked to use students or people that were in law enforcement. >> so your -- you are a graduate of st. mary's. >> yes. >> and you -- what did you do after that? >> after that i would have gone to skills in the summer of 1994. >> okay. >> what do you mean by in a? >> i went to skills. >> what does that mean? >> i went to the police certification program so i could get hired. >> where was that at? >> alexandria technical college. >> in alexandria, minnesota. >> sure. that's about 120 miles from here? >> yes. >> and did you stay there while you were being educated? >> yes. >> what kind of a program was that? how long was it? >> it was 10 or 12 weeks. >> and what do you mean -- is that where you obtained your skills to apply as a police officer? >> yes. it was a hands-on training. i had the college education, the book knowledge and then i went there for my skills program or my hands-on program. >> after. >> did you have a driver's license? yes? >> did you have a job? >> yes, i did. >> and were you successful at first? >> yes. >> yeah. i worked at the metro regional treatment center because i graduated in january. >> i graduated in january. >> but you worked skills, you in alexandria, correct? >> yes. >> and the job you got was at norfolk state hospital? >> yes. >> it was between your skills -- say that again a little slower. >> i got hired there in february, and i worked for a year, a calendar year, but the onoka city police department would allow their students or employees i'm sorry to go to skills and still have a job on weekends or when they would get back before they got hired as a law enforcement officer. >> so at onoka state hospital, what did you do? >> i was a security officer. >> and onoka state hospital is -- is basically a detox center now, is that right? >> it had a detox. it had a countywide detox and a detox program and also had drug and alcohol abuse rehabilitation and mental illness. >> and what did you do there? you were in security? >> yes. >> does that mean you had to deal with the folks that are staying there in the residence? >> yes. >> and were you successful in that? >> yes. >> and after working there, where did you go next? >> i left there and got hired at the city of brooklyn center. >> in what year were you hired at the brooklyn center police department? >> 1995. >> and when were you sworn in? >> february the 27th. >> of 1959? >> correct. >> who was at your swear-in? >> my mother and my father. >> so after you were sworn in, you started working as a brooklyn center police officer? >> yes. >> and what year was that again? >> 1995. >> so that would be, moy math, 26 years before you resigned, is that a fair statement? >> yes. >> when you worked as a police officer at brooklyn center throughout those 26 years, did you remain a patrol officer all during that time? >> i did. >> and why was that? why didn't you attempt to go up the ladder like the other officers that we've heard from? >> i liked my work. i enjoyed working with community. i didn't want to be in an administrative role. >> did you also even though you were a patrol officer and you did take part in other programs, for example, the ftl program? >> yes, i did. >> and that was field training? >> yes, i was a field training option offer for many years. >> how many years? >> i don't have an exact number. 10 to 15. >> and we learned in this court, in this case, what a field training officer does. very briefly what did you do? >> i would get probationers in different estimation of their training, first phase, second phase, third phase or final phase, and usually the primary phase and the final phase were always with the same fto and the other ftos would train the other two stages. >> and why did you continue to do that for so many years? >> i felt that i had knowledge and mentorship that i could help young officers develop into sib would want to work with and my partners would want to work with. >> there were other programs that you volunteered for or joined. >> yes. >> while you were a police officer, is that correct? >> yes. >> and after you became a police officer, what was the first program that you joined or volunteered? >> i became an explorer adviser for an explorer post. >> and what's an explorer post, is that the younger people that are -- >> yes. the program through the boy scouts of america. >> and in that praum teach them about politician, is that right? >> yes. >> and after that explorers program that you joined, what else did you do as a police officer? >> i was on the domestic abuse response team. i was also a crisis negotiator. >> let's stop at the domestic abuse program. how long were you on that proximately? >> 10 to 12 years. >> what was involveded? >> officers would go out on domestic abuse calls or if there was a victim of a crime or an arrest made or not an arrest made we would follow up the next day with the victims to see that they were getting the things that they needed like domestic advocates, walking them through and getting orders for protections that they had questions and helping them through the court process. >> and did you enjoy doing that? >> yes. >> why? >> sometimes there were great successes, and sometimes there were very sad failures. >> is there another program that you were involved in was a hostage program? >> i was a crisis negotiator for the parent -- the umbrella of the emergency operations negotiator team. >> what did you do? >> i was crisis negotiator. >> what does that mean? >> we would go out with various subjects or a s.w.a.t. team i guess is the easiest way to describe it on warrants. we would respond to calls where there may be people in danger. >> and was your job to try and negotiate with the subject and get him to submit to being arrested? >> yes, he or she. >> was that your main job? >> no, i was always a patrol officer. >> no, i mean, as far as a hostage negotiator, that's what you did? >> yes, i was a crisis negotiator. >> and what other programs were you in? >> i was on the law enforcement memorial association honor guard. >> and what is that? >> it's -- so the parent is the minnesota law enforcement memorial association. they do a lot of work to help survivors and their families make their way through the process of getting benefits after their officer is killed in a line of duty. i was on the honor guard. >> what did you do being on the honor guard? >> when i started in 1998, i was on the colors team for productsly a year or two, and then i went to the casket team. >> well, what's the color team? >> the color team carries flags. >> and the casket team? >> we would carry the casket or the urn of the fallen officer and then fold their ago. >> and would you be in contact also with the victim or the deceased family? >> sometimes with the family, a lot of times with the chief of police because i would have to give the folded flag to the police chief. >> and that's throughout the state of minnesota? >> yes. >> and these were police officers killed in the line of duty? >> yes. >> or other law enforcement officers? >> most -- 99% of it would be killed in the line of duty, or we would do some retiree funerals. >> any other programs you were involved in? >> i did a lot of crime prevention work for our police department and other presentations. >> crime prevention presentations? >> yes. >> what were those? >> i was assigned an apartment complex in the city, and i would meet with management and we would do some programming for the residents as far as personal safety, looking car doors, taking availables out of your car, regular safety in an apartment complex and then i would do some other presentations on robbery preventions for banks in the city. >> by the way, when you were doing the -- carrying caskets for that program, were you aware of officers that were killed in the line of duty by making a traffic stop? >> yes, sean mendel. >> o. your honor. >> the ox is overruled. i'll let the answer stand. >> during your 26 years as a police officer, did you ever receive any complaints for abusing your power? >> no. >> did you ever receive any complaints from the public? >> no. >> in training, did you attend all the training sessions required by the brooklyn center police department while you were there? >> yes. >> and with respect to gun training, laser training, you -- you attended all those, too, right? >> yes, i did. >> and did you pay attention? >> yes, i did. >> with respect to that, and in your approximation, and i'm not asking for exact numbers, but with respect to the training, what would you say the amount of training was for for the firearms, for the gun and the amount of trach for the laser, what would be the percentages there? >> for the firearms, it would be probably 80%. we spent a lot more time on firearms than we did on taser. >> and tasers didn't come into being until years after your you were a law enforcement officer, right? >> yes, i believe trainers in this courtroom said 2002, 2003. >> and you started as a law enforcement officer when? >> with respect to tasers, there's been evidence in the case that you had a taser 7. is that correct? >> yes. >> and the evidence in that was that the taser 7 had -- is shaped like a gun, fair statement? >> yes. >> and the taser 7 had a dark black or at least a dark handle and a dark top? >> objection. >> do you remember that? >> objection, leading. >> i'm trying to -- >> the objection is overruled. you may answer. >> yes. >> the taser that you received, was it productsly a month before april 11th that you received this taser, do you remember? >> in the courtroom i was told i received it on march the 26th? >> okay. >> and also while we're there, with respect to these tasers and testing them, the rule that we read said should test the electronics every day, is that right? >> yes. >> and there's testimony that you didn't test yours a couple days, is that right? >> yes, that's what i was told. >> do you agree with that, that you didn't test it? >> i don't recall if i would have or wouldn't have. >> and was that an important feature for law enforcement officers with new tasers? >> no. >> that never used them since they had them? >> correct. >> and while we're there, did you ever use a taser -- use it by actually shooting it in all your years, career as a law enforcement officer? >> i would take my taser out on rare occasions, but i don't i ever deployed it. >> okay. when you take your taser out, it's to de-escalate what's going on, is that a fair statement? >> sometimes, to prepare what's behind the door. sometimes an officer has a gun out, sometimes an officer has a taser out. now the taser that was switched from you, did that go to one of your partners? >> my old taser? >> i believe they were just put in storage at the police department. >> and those tasers were all yellow, right? >> yes. >> the handle, the top, the whole thing was yellow? >> except for the battery pack. i believe that was black and there were some markings on the side. >> okay. i'm going to show you these tasers, show you this taser. >> objection, your onnor. can we have a sidebar, please. >> yes. >> i'm john king in washington. a quick break. prosecutors asking for a sidebar conversation with the judge. during the testimony of the defendant kim potter, the former brooklyn center officer with the police department, charged with the shooting and killing of daunte wright. just the beginning of the defendant testifying in her own self-defense, most was going through her training. right when the request was made for the sidebar, they started to talk about her hayser had been switched out. she had an old toys their was mostly yellow and switched to a new taser that looked more like a handgun, and at that point the prosecutors got up and asked a question. why do you believe the defense is trying to make that? the defense is that it was a mistake? >> he wanted to make it a little more palpable. he was in a little bit of a risch going through the biography. it was more like a resume recitation there. >> as we went through here, she said -- right again before this request was made, and we're not exactly sure what the prosecutor -- he was about to show the two versions of the taser, the one she had up until march 26th. the shooting occurred on april 11th so she had this new taser at one period of week and the regulations say you're supposed to test the electronics every day. she may have missed a couple of years. >> she said 26 years as a police officer took out her taser on a couple of occasions but does not ever recall deploying it. >> yeah. she did say that, and that seems unusual given that show had been on the force for such a long time and responded to domestic violence cases. i think here it's a little bit odd that they are having a sidebar now because this type of evidence, preparation works have been thrashed out beforehand, so i'm not sure exactly what they would be discussing right now. i'm sure the prosecution wants to make shower that the jury isn't confused by which taser is which and when it was introduced and such. >> the objection is sustained. >> back in a moment. >> do you specifically remember your old taser, by, that i mean the one before the 7:00 all yellow? >> yes. >> and was that an x-26 taser? >> i believe it was an x-26p. >> p. so with respect to the tasers, there's been evidence about signing some forms on warnings. do you remember signing those forms? >> at you're annual training we would be handed a form to sign, and i would sign it. >> and do you remember the warnings on them at all? >> not from those days, no. >> and with respect to weapons confusion, was there ever any training, actual training about what was confusion as you remember it? >> no. d >> did you even know what weapons confusion was -- >> yeah. >> wait until i finish the question. >> before april 11th? >> it would be mentioned in training, but it wasn't something we physically trained on. >> and which that you mean what? >> there was no training on weapons confusion. you would sit in a dark room and told to grap which weapon. >> i'm going to go on to april 11th, 2021, a sunday, and you certainly remember that day, correct? >> yes. >> and you're in fto that day for officer lucky? >> yes, i was. >> and that day what time did you go on duty? >> 6:00 a.m. >> and was lucky on duty at that time, too? >> yes. >> and at about -- what did you do during the morning? if you remember? did you just do drive-around police work? >> we just did police work. we would have checked the squad car if we wouldn't have had calls right away. >> it was a sunday. >> it was a sunday. >> so productsly around 2:00 did you pull up in back -- not you, officer lucky was driving the car, right, the squad? >> yes. >> and you were the fto. where were you seated in the car? >> in the passenger seat. >> and tell the jury what you remember about first seeing the white buick on that day prodat proximately 2:00 p.m. >> overs lick and i were driving south on zane avenue north. we were talking about pursuit policies, doing some regular fto training, and he observed a vehicle in the turn lane with a blinker on inappropriately. >> and was that the white buick? >> yes. >> and did you have a conversation with him about that? >> yes. >> and what was that conversation? >> we discuss