gingrich's ex-wife on the eve of the primary, reviving the issue of infidelity, and newt denounces cnn's john king for using that report to lead off a deba dein south carolina. >> i astounded that cnn who take trash like that and use it to open a presidential debate. >> was that a mistake by cnn? was the abc story itself a late hit, repeating charges that marianne gingrich first made long ago? we'll ask the correspondent, abc's brian ross. fox's juan williams draws flack at another debate for challenging the candidates with a series of race-related incidents including this one with gingrich. >> can't you see that this is viewed at a minimum as insulting to all americans, but particularly to black americans? >> was he acting as a journalist, or an advocate? plus, the "new york times" ombudsman hit by a media firestorm after asking whether his paper should be a vigilante for truth? we'll ask art brisbane why his column touched a nerve. i'm hourt kurtz, and this is "reliable sources." this is cnn, breaking news. we'll get to the campaign shortly, but the breaking news this hour, joe paterno is dead at 85. the former penn state football coach who has been much in the news lately had been hospitalized for lung cancer. the word came this morning that he has passed. he has been with that program, associated with that school and that program for half a century, associated with college football himself. his name practically sin no, ma'am nuss with the word college football. cnn's susan candiotti is standing by. as this news has broken this morning, tell us about the scene at the school where he was, you know, frankly a beloved figure? >> reporter: it's hit hard here, howard. it's a very difficult day for the men -- for whoever who believed and loved the man that they've known as joe pa. you can see over ni mi shoulder that iconic statue of joe paterno here, posed with his number one finger up in the air saying we're number one. this man, the winningest coach in football. they said you don't understand what joe pa, joe paterno, means to penn state nlsz you are actually part of this community. he made penn state. he is penn state. there are candles set up here last night in a vigil. dozens of students and non-students here coming by. they said to pay their respects as soon as they got word that his condition was downgraded following complications of his treatment for lung cancer. the family put out a statement saying that he fought hard until the end and how much they loved him, how much he meant to this community. you know, behind that statue, howard is a saying, and it means in joe paterno's words, they candidate me what i liked written about me when i'm gone. i hope they write i made penn state a better place, not just that i was a good football coach. >> as you know, some of the words that will be written, pretty prominently in the stories tomorrow, are going to be about the sex scandal involving the former assistant coach in which paterno was drawn and did not acquit himself very admirably, and how that, unfortunately, is part of the legacy, but i would imagine that looms less large for those who loved him on the campus where you are standing right now. >> reporter: absolutely. people bring that up themselves. they know what happened here in the last few months here. it's hit everyone hard here. it's affected penn state, but they believe in their hearts that penn state will be able to overcome that. they say they loved joe paterno despite that. they still support him. >> all right. susan candiotti, thank you very much from state college, pennsylvania, this morning. we're reaching out to people in the sports world, the journalism world who cover joe paterno, worked with him. we'll bring you more later this hour and later throughout the day. turning now to the political portion of the program, it was in the anals of presidential debate a classic confrontation. john king began a cnn faceoff in south carolina, as know knows by now, by asking about an abc news interview about his ex-wife marianne, and the former speaker looked furious. >> she said you asked her to open into an open marriage. with you like to take type to respond to that? >> no, but i will. i think the destructive, vicious, negative nature of much of the news media makes it harder to govern this country and harder to attract people to run for government office. to take an ex-wife and make it two days before the primary, a significant question in a presidential campaign is as close to despicable as anything i can imagine. >> when king protested that the story did not come from cnn, gingrich cut him off. >> john, it was repeated by your network. you chose to start the debate with it. don't try to blame somebody else. >> joining us now to examine gingrich's war with the media and his stunning comeback victory in the south carolina primary, ryan lizzo, correspondent for "the politico magazine, jennifer ruben, author of the washington post right turn blog, and terrence smith, former media correspondent for pbs's "news hour." terry smith, was it a blunder, plain and simple, for john king to lead off that debate, very first question, with the question about gingrich's ex-wife? >> it was a gift to newt beginni gingrich, i'll say that. you got the impression that newt was rather ready for that, didn't you? he used it. he used it effectively. you would have to judge from the results profitably in the primary. was it a mistake? you can defend it on the grounds that it was the news of the day. it certainly was not very well done, and it would have been vastly better if it had been brought up by one of the other candidates. >> i think it it was a misstep. i think it was fine to ask the question, but to ask it at the top. cnn thought this was the most important thing to be discussed, you knowing, more important than the economy, and more important than health care and afghanistan. >> wait a minute. i totally disagree. we had over a dozen debates, right? we've gotten to every single important issue in this campaign. it's come one after another, week after week. that was the issue that day. it was driving all the coverage of the campaign, and right now we would be sitting here taik talking about why didn't john king ask that question if he hint. >> you are totally fine with him asking, and you are fine with him asking it at the top? is. >> everyone was tuning in. they were wonder about this campaign. everyone was tuning in to see it. >> the genius of gingrich, these aren't really debates. they're press conferences. the fact -- >> theater. >> they're theater. the fact is i thought this was shrewd. they've sucked some of the power from the campaigns to us in the press, which is great if you are in the press. newt's gift here is he figured out a way to shift that power back to him. >> it's no secret that you have been a big mitt romney supporter in your blog and very -- >> not exactly. the only one to ever come for rick santorum before the rest of the media caught up. >> that's fine. >> i have been critical of so many other candidates. >> you have been critical of one newt gingrich much georgia. >> yes. >> coming back to the john king question. on twitter when this happened, you called him a dope. this is a guy who has been a respected political reporter for 25 years for a.p. and cnn. i thought that was beneath you. >> i think it's fair. i think the question was phrased in a very dopey fashion. >> maybe it was a dopey question. >> yes. >> you called him a dope. >> listen, it's twitter. in the midst of the moment. >> do you regret using that language? >> the question was dopey. if he hadn't thought through it, then shame on him. it was a setup. he should have -- newt gingrich should thank him for the largest in kind donation because he probably won the south carolina primary on that basis. for someone to ask a question in that fashion where you know he is going to hit it out of the ballpark, follow it up with a very defensive kind of silly argument that it didn't come from cnn i thought was beneath him. it didn't play to his benefit. it sort of transfecked the rest of the panel, subsumed the rest of the debate, and i think it was a mistake. >> let me pick this up after we have a chance to hear what john king said after the debate. this is him on the situation room saying it was his decision to use that question at the top. >> we decided -- i decided that we were going to do it, and then we decided don't try to be cute or hide it as part of any other discussion. just ask the speaker, you look in his business, you know this, you got to take your lumps. i instanted by my decision. he had s a politician. i have my job to do. >> he makes the point that this is what everyone was waiting for, but everyone, i think, what ryan really means is journalists, political insiders. people obsessed with this stuff. i wonder if there's a disconnect with what the political media complex and average folks who may not care all that much about what marianne gingrich thinks about their marriage. >> i suspect there were people in that audience and in the audience at large that did care about what marianne gingrich said and were at least curious to see what newt gingrich would say in response, but what stunned me was the standing applause for newt gingrich when he attacked john king. the delight of that audience in south carolina that republican, largery white audience in south carolina who loved to see the media secured by -- >> cared more about that than the messiness in gingrich's personal life. >> more than the answer. >> how can they like the answer? what the answer was is we're sick of the media. it was a nonsubstantive, had nothing to do with the issues of the day, and he has tapped into that vein of segmented anger. >> the answer of the securing. that's what they liked. >> i think the gap between what the average voter wants, which we really don't know, and what so-called insiders want in these campaignses, it's narrowed. everyone has access to the same information. everyone is on-line. people who watch a republican debate or who are there, they know what the political conversation is among the insiders because that's been sort of universalized. i don't think we should pretend to know what people really want. >> there are times, let's face it, when the media are simply out of touch with america. i want to come back to this conversation. i -- settle down. i didn't mean to shock you. i know it's early on a sunday morning. an unusual move fox anchor neil cav outo tore up the format to defend cnn's john king. let's take a look at that. >> john king is an excellent journalist. newt gingrich is an excellent politician. the excellent politician tries to embarrass the guy who asks the question. the excellent journalist, nevertheless, asked that question. knowing full well a crowd and a big one will turn on him because he did ask it. >> brian, should king have frame the question more pointedly rather than to say do you want to say something about this so the government would understand why it was important, and then once they were unloaded on, and took that club and whacked him, should he have come back more forcefully -- >> gunning rich was prepared for that to be the first topic of the night, and he had an attack planned on the press. no matter how it was asked. >> the danger then, you are the moderator of the event, and you don't want to be drawn into the position of debating the candidate, like you're not just a moderator, but a participant. >> you don't want to make it all about you. >> i disagree. there was a great opportunity to do that because in an earlier debate when they were speaking more generically about the issue of infidelity, gingrich gave a rather sincere little speel that people had to be concerned, it's part of the whole, and i wonder if john king had read that back to gingrich in this context and explained people's concerns, whether he would have gotten such a strong response. >> to your point, should john king have come back at him. the next day at lunch an attorney friend of mine said to me he should have. that he should have come back and said to gingrich that he was being hip critical. your character. you led the clinton impeachment. >> would i argue, no, that's not his role. he is a motted rater and a moderator is supposed to ask the questions, frame the debate, keep it moving. it's different than an interviewer. a moderator has a different role. >> speaking of framing the debate, i want to get now to the fox debate a couple of days earlier because juan williams did a lot to frame that debate and the coverage of that debate and the former house speaker went back. now, williams asked a series of questions of various candidates that were race-related. he is there as a fox commentator and an african-american journalist. the one that got the most attention was this exchange. >> speaker gingrich, you recently said black americans should demand jobs, not food stamps. you also said poor kids lack a strong work ethic and propose having them work as janitors in their schools. can't you see that this is viewed at a minimum as insulting to all americans, but particularly to black americans? you saw some of this reaction during your visit to a black church in south carolina. [ booing ] >> first of all, juan, the fact is that more people have been put on food stamps by barack obama than any president in american history. >> did it seem to anyone here that juan williams by focussing on race and belittling comments was pushing any kind of an agenda? >> i think the start of the question, can't you see, rather than do you believe, that gave the question a little bit more of an activist edge, but it's a legitimate issue to raise. >> actually, i would take issue with that. republicans care nothing about this, and i think part of this has to be taken -- approximate. >> nothing? >> yes, relatively nothing. about the comment, the accusation of race, they don't believe it. they're not interested. it wasn't a point of controversy within the republican primary. this is an issue from the mainstream media and from the left with the republican party, but not -- >> that's a strange standard. >> i have to ask you to hold that thought. i talked to juan williams, by the way, and he said he felt these kinds of questions were not being asked in any of the debates, and i have to agree with him on that. we're going to go back to the joe paterno story, the breaking news, if you haven't heard, about the former penn state coach dying this morning at 85. usa today's christine brennan will join us in just a moment. when i grow up, i want to fix up old houses. ♪ [ woman ] when i grow up, i want to take him on his first flight. i want to run a marathon. i'm going to own my own restaurant. when i grow up, i'm going to start a band. 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[ female announcer ] discover what's next in your life. get this free travel bag when you join at aarp.org/jointoday. try bayer advanced aspirin. it has microparticles so it enters the bloodstream fast and rushes relief to the site of your tough pain. it's proven to relieve pain twice as fast as before. bayer advanced aspirin. we've learned this past hour that joe paterno is dead at 85. the former penn state football coach has been much in the news lately. people are gathering for sort of a vigil at the campus in state college, pennsylvania, and joining us now on the line is "usa today" sports columnist christine brennan, who has written and talked about paterno much over the years, and, christine, to what extent will the stories and the talking about this legendary coach be influenced, marred, some would say, by his role in the sex scandal involving his foremaner assistant coach jerry sandusky who has been a huge story this past year? >> i think it will be a large extent, which is sad. there's nothing but sadness right now about this news and i know everyone, you know, is thinking of the paterno family and his wife and coach paterno himself. there's no way you can not feel incredible sadness for them at this time, but you mentioned the news that broke november 5th that within a few days he was pfeiffered by penn state, which are words we never would have thought we would hear that penn state fired joe paterno. that is a huge part of joe pattern yoes ae legacy. sadly, it will be there. it will be part of his biography. it will be in the first pairgraphy or two of every story, every obituary that's written, as it should be, unfortunately. >> right. at the same time half century career as a college football coach who became an icon for the sport, just briefly. >> yes. without a doubt. that can't be forgotten either. as an educator, he admitted himself that he, of course, failed. didn't do enough with the sandusky news, and i think that is something. the sports end of joe pattern yoes ae career, amaze, memorable, never to be forgotten. >> thank you for putting that in perspective. christine brennan from "usa today." we breesht it. i made a mistake last night on twitter because there was a false report that he had died last night. got picked up by cbs sports blog, the daily beast where i work. i didn't check it. i decided it was sad news. i should have been more careful. lesson learned. turning now back to the presidential campaign. the toddry tale had been public for 13 years now. newt gingrich dumped his second wife marianne while having an fair with a congressional aide who is now his third we'll, callista. marianne gingrich talked to print reporters, but never on camera until her ex-husband started doing well in his presidential campaign. abc's brian ross sat down for this report" nightly." >> i said to him we've been married a long time. he said, yes, but you want me all to yourself. callista doesn't care what dow. >> what was he saying to you, do you think? >> he was asking to have an open marriage, and i refused. >> he wanted an open marriage. >> yeah, that i accept the fact that he has somebody else in his life. >> but was it fair to revive that story from gingrich's past 36 hours before the voting began in south carolina? i spoke earlier with chief investigative correspondent from new york. >> brian ross, welcome. >> good to be here. >> to air this story a day and a half before the south carolina primary feels like a late hit. were you uncomfortable with the timing? >> not at all. we had done a story on wednesday night about mitt romney and his accounts and funds that are in the caymen islands off shore, and we have the story on mr. gingrich and his ex-wife for thursday. we wanted to run them in tan dem, and we felt that as long as it wasn't within 24 hours, that was good for us. >> 24 hours would have been too close, but 36 or 48 hours is okay? >> well, it sort of one nauz cycle to allow mr. gingrich to respond, and respond he did. >> we'll get to his response in a moment. on some level, wasn't abc used by mary ann gingrich to take revenge against her ex-husband, just at the time that he was surging in the polls? >> we didn't know he was surging in the polls, first of all, howie, but we had been trying to get this interview with her since november, and if she was out to really get him, i think she probably would have pushed to do it in december when he also appeared to have been surging. this was a long involved process, and we did the interview last friday, and took a few days to digest it, and then we were ready to go. we had to squeeze it in to make sure that we gave gingrich time to respond. we contacted him on tuesday, and didn't really get any response until thursday. >> and on that point, brian, during the cnn debate, while gingrich was in the process of unloading on the vicious and destructive media, he made some very particular allegations agai