budget cuts before he agrees to raising the debt ceiling. and then there's the democrat-controlled senate. >> we shouldn't be drawing lines in the sand. we should be willing to work together. >> treasury secretary tim geithner says the u.s. could hit its $14.3 trillion debt limit tomorrow but he can keep the country out of default until august. so there is time. what they really lack on capitol hill is common ground. today -- republican risk, reward and rhetoric with senate republican leader mitch mcconnell and paul ryan, chairman of the house budget committee. then presidential politics as the field expands with clinton, press secretary joe lockhart and bush speech writer michael gerson. and challenges in the middle east and libya, dennis blair and john negroponte. i'm candy crowley and this is "state of the union." despite fears a debt crisis will undermine the u.s. economic recovery and rattle the world, just 19% of americans told gallup pollsters they want congress to raise the debt ceiling. 47% no and 34% said they didn't know enough to say. minority leader senator mitch mcconnell, thank you for being here. first question out of the box -- what would happen if the debt ceiling is not raised? >> well, i think we ought to look at this as an opportunity. an opportunity to bring a democratic president who's been leading a spending binge over the last couple of years and a new much more republican congress which believes the american people want us to reduce spending significantly. bring those two together and get something done born on a bipartisan basis. you know, it is interesting that some of our biggest accomplishments in the last quarter of a century have been when you have divided government. think of ronald reagan and tip o'neill working together to save social security for another generation in 1983. think of bill clinton and the republican congress balancing the budgets and passing welfare reform. this is actually a great opportunity to address this burgeoning problem. we have a $14 trillion debt. it is as big as our economy which makes us look a lot like greece. and over and above that, we have $50 trillion in unfunded liabilities. that is promises we've made, very popular programs, medicare, social security, medicaid, that we can't meet. so rather than thinking of this as a crisis, i think of it as an opportunity to come together an those talks are under way led by the vice president. >> so then let me see where the coming together is. on the house side we've heard speaker boehner say that there has to be $2 trillion worth of cuts and that the amount of cuts has to at least equal the amount that the debt ceiling is raised. is that where you stand? is that a bottom line for you? >> well, let me just tell what you it would take to get my vote. we need to do something about the short term. we need to get a spending ceiling for the next two years because we're not likely to get a final budget out of a democratic senate and a republican house. we need to know how much we're going to spend the next two years, and that needs to be on a declining basis. then we need to do something mid-term, that is within what we call the budget window, within the next few years, both on 9 discretionary side and the mandatory side. and the mandatory side means entitlements. and we also need to do something long-term. i just mentioned we have over $50 trillion in unfunded liabilities. the president doesn't seem to want to do social security without a tax increase which is clearly not needed and we just heard from the trustees friday that both medicare and social security are in serious trouble and it's worse than anybody thought. maybe the president's open to doing something on the medicare side. but to get my vote, candy -- i can only speak for myself -- we need to do something significant, short-term, medium-term and long-term -- >> all before you raise the debt ceiling? >> eeshoh, yeah, absolutely. >> short, term and medium need to be done before you go for an increase in the debt ceiling. >> absolutely. my standard & poor's is in the process of downgrading the u.s. credit rating. we need to impress could foreign countries that we'll get our act together and astonish the american people that the adults are in charge in washington and are actually going to deal with this issue. >> let me see if i understand you. $2 trillion is not necessarily where you would go. you would leave that amount open while the biden commission with republicans and democrats on it figure out the short, medium and long-term. is that correct? $2 trillion you don't stick with. >> yeah. what i'm not going to do is negotiate the deal with you here this morning. >> oh, come on. >> i'd like to, i know, but i just can't. what i'm trying to do is give you a sense of what i think would be significant, would be a clear indication that we're going to go in an entirely different direction. and i think if you do something significant both short-term, medium-term and long-term, everybody will understand the americans are going to get their act together and we're not going to end up being a western european country. >> you'll know significant when you see it, i take it. >> i think standard and poor's will be a good indicator of if they are impressed with what we've done, then that will mean the markets think the americans will get their act together. foreign countries, many of whom have been lending us an enormous amount of money would get the message that the americans are going to get their act together. we need to -- that's my definition of significant. >> and i think i can get a "yes" or "no" from you on this. no tax increases will you accept at all in either the short, the medium or the long term, and that includes close tap loopholes? >> well, tax increases was settled by last year's election. s. the president knows we are he not going to raise taxes in connection with this problem. look, we don't have this problem because we tax too little. we have it because we spend too much. >> how about closing loopholes like the tax -- for instance, for the oil companies. >> the problem with doing tax reform right now is it is very, very complicated. the senate democrats, you're right, do want to raise taxes on what they call the figure five oil companies whi oil companies which will raise the gas at the pumps, send jobs overseas and make us get even more oil from hugo chavez. that's just a political stunt that mary landrieu, the political senator from louisiana, called laughable. that's not the kind of thing we're going to be dealing here in connection with the serious talks going on with the vice president's president. >> let me turn you to foreign policy for a quick question. do you think that president obama ought to call on syrian president al asad to step down as he did for president mubarak in egypt? >> we certainly know that the assad regime, just like his father's regime, is a thuggish regime that murders their own people. the president i think correctly is trying to put the squeeze on them in ever way possible. calling for resignation? i don't know whether that's called for at the moment or not but this regime has turned out to be exactly what we thought and there were some people in our own administration who thought that bashar al assad was going to be a reformer. i don't think there is any evidence of that. this is a thug regime. the think the only thing that comes out of it is we're not likely to make any progress in the middle east right now. i know senator mitchell decided two years was enough because it looks to me like we're kind of reached another stalemate in the palestinian talks with israel. we're not sure what comes next in egypt. i think this is a period of great unrest in the middle east and probably not a time when we're going to make serious progress in any of these countries. >> let me turn you to politics. mitt romney often called the front-runner in the republican race for the presidential nominee, gave a big speech on thursday, he talk about how his health care plan in massachusetts, which required mandates -- which had mandates for people that they must have health insurance, was different from the president's, which republicans are so critical about. was it enough to satisfy you? would you have any qualms if mitt romney were the presidential nominee for the republican party? >> well, look. i'm not going to start dabbling around or endorsing or criticizing one candidate or another running for president on the republican side. but let me say this about obama care. it was the single worst piece of legislation that's been passed in my time in the senate. >> what about the massachusetts plan? >> the biggest step in the wrong direction for america. i think it needs to be repealed and replaced. we've had that vote earlier this year. i would hope whoever gets elected president, if it's not the current president, would join with us and repealing it totally. >> and finally, this has often been described and often is at this time as a weak republican field. is there someone that is not being discussed that you would like to see get into this race for republican nominee? >> well, on the weak field comment, i'm reminded of how the carter administration was pulling for ronald reagan to be the republican nominee because they thought he would be the easiest to beat. look, one of these candidates who wants the nomination and who is going to work very hard for it and run through this gauntlet is going to look a lot better than any of these people look right now. so i assure you, we're going to have a very credible, electable republican nominee. i just don't know who that is. >> me neither, senator mitch mcconnell. thank you so much for your time today. when we come back, influential republican congressman paul ryan and his plan to reform medicare. where do you go to find a super business? 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[ female announcer ] new purifying facial cleanser from the new line of neutrogena naturals. april 5th, house budget committee chairman paul ryan introduced his budget proposal for fiscal year 2012. >> this is the path to prosperity. >> a path followed by key senate colleagues like budget committee ranking member jeff sessions. >> we're going to stand up to those who are going to attack you for having the courage to tell the truth about the challenges we face. >> but when congress went home for easter recess, angry constituents at town hall meetings grabbed the headlines. the uproar was almost entirely centered around the medicare revamp in ryan's budget which by 2022 replaces medicare with subsidized payments to seniors who would buy their own health insurance. the idea is a no-go in the polls and some of ryan's senate colleagues are queasy. senators lamar. alexander and rob portman are open to alternatives, maine senator susan collins delivered the harshest blow. >> i don't happen to support congressman ryan's plan. >> paul ryan on the future of his proposal next. [ male announcer ] we can display our superb school system on a chart. but how do you chart... happiness? we can show our diverse culture on a graph. but how do you graph... experiences? we can diagram the business reasons for your company to be here. but what kind of diagram do you use... for imagination? fairfax county, virginia, is the ideal business location. and the ideal life location. joining me now, republican congressman paul ryan, chairman of the house budget committee. congressman, thanks for joining us. let me talk to you about -- i think that you heard senator mcconnell say that he was waiting to see what was going to come out of the commission that biden is heading with republicans and democrats on it. as far as you are concerned, must whatever plan comes out of this commission include medicare reform before you would vote for an increase in the debt ceiling? >> well, i think it should because medicare's in the future of the -- >> must it? >> i -- like mitch mcconnell, i don't think it is in our interest to be negotiating to the media. no offense candy, but i think we should be -- not doing that. >> are you no fun. but okay. >> no, i know. i know. let's get this straight thouthoug though -- we need to address the drivers of our debt. the reason we are running into this debt limit so soon is because of the spending spree that's occurred over the last two years. we need short, medium and long-term fiscal reforms to get this under control and prevent a debt crisis from hitting us. like john boehner said, for every dollar the president wants to raise the debt limit we are saying cut at least a dollar's worth of spending because that is the necessary thing to do to stave off a debt crisis. if we get a debt crisis, candy, then we have another recession or worse and that's what we want to avoid. >> so senator mcconnell also indicated that he didn't want to talk about a $2 trillion figure which is what the speaker sort of put out there saying there's got to be, before i will bring along republicans on the house side, has to be $2 trillion in cuts, which i took to mean in addition to whatever you are raising the debt ceiling by. do you believe the $2 trillion figure is where you start and you won't go below that? >> look, we offered over $6 trillion in cuts over the next ten years with our budget. what we've brought to the table is our budget, which has those spending cuts, those spending reforms. we have yet to see a concrete proposal offered by either the president or the senate democrats. so we're the ones who put out all the specifics and details. we have yet to see kousht counteroffers from the other side. the $2 trillion figure is floating around because that's what congrethe president has ase congress to raise the debt limit by. that is where you get this $2 trillion number. if he says let's do $1 trillion in debt limit increase, we want at least over $1 trillion in spending cuts. that's why you'll hear that $2 trillion number. >> i want to get factually two things clear. you would agree that the bush administration added greatly to this deficit and this debt that you are now looking at. >> yes. yes. i would. both parties messed this up. this is not a republican created problem or a democrat created problem. it is both parties and we've got to face up to that if we're going to get this situation under control. >> and the president does have some ideas out there. you're not the only one with specific ideas. he's put them all out there, you all just don't like them. >> well, yes, but remember his budget does nothing close to closing the fiscal gap. he gave a speech which said do more medicare rationing. we asked the congressional budget office to give us an analysis of this framework. they basically said they can't score speeches. so we still have yet to see from the administration a plan that actually fixes or physical problem and of course, as you know, we've seen nothing from the senate so far. >> right. others i just want to adhere, certainly check facts, have said that your plan also falls short in the deficit reduction but rather than get into a numbers game with you, i want to step back and look at this a little politically. that is, i want you to sell me this politically. because as you know, some of your members went home and took a beating on medicare. the idea that medicare, as we know it, would be replaced by a subsidy system that would be can capped for those as you get wealthier. a lot of people said don't change medicare, we see this in the polls. so you have that, that the republicans are -- at least your plan and many republicans backing it, is out there. then you have republicans refusing to say, yes, we ought to cut the subsidies we give to the multi-multi billion dollar oil industry. sell me on that. >> first, i would say our town hall meetings went phenomenally well. mine in particular. second of all, medicare is going broke. the trustees reminded us of this last week. it is not a question of if medicare is going to change. it clearly is because it is going broke. the question is how will we reform it. >> don't you think it is kind of a problem that back tax breaks oil companies are getting while requiring seniors or asking that seniors pay more and have a different medicare system or seniors to come. i realize it won't affect seniors today. >> i would argue that's a none sect sector. the comparison of the two are infinitesimally different. medicare has tens of trillions of dollars of unfunded liabilities. it overwhelming any other thing such as small provisions like that. with respect to oil company tax subsidies, we've all along said let's reform the tax code, let's clear out the brush in the tax shelters for all different businesses so we can lower tax rates on everybody so that we can have a more internationally competitive tax system to get jobs created. with the one provision you are tacking about, it is a tax benefit that goes to all manufacturers in america if they make something in america. they're talking about singling out the oil and gas industry and raising their tax rates compared to every or manufacturers which simply eliminates this tax benefit that goes to every manufacturer and therefore raise the cost of producing american oil and gas and make us more dependent on foreign oil and gas. i don't think that's really a good idea. i just filled up my suburban yesterday. it cost me $100 to fill up with gas and i couldn't even fill the tank because the pump cut off at $100. we've got high gas prices. raises taxes on american made oil and gas doesn't help that, it hurts that. let's go back to the scratch here. we have a country that's going broke. we have a very important entitlement program medicare that millions of seniors depend on. we're saying don't change these benefits to people that are in and near retirement. they've organized their lives around these benefits but we have to reform this program for the next generation if we're going to save it for the next generation and that's what we're proposing to do. >> two quick questions i must ask you. one, i know you are giving a big speech tomorrow in chicago. i don't think it is coincidence it is the president's hometown. heard from a number of democrats who knew you were coming on going this is a do-over tour that you're on, that you got so blasted for your -- >> anything but. >> is there anything different in these speeches? >> no. it's basically we believe the president is articulating a vision which i would call shared scarcity. believe the president's economic vision and the speeches he's been given are speeches in which they pit people against each other, play class warfare, envy economics which is bad economics. i think it is really a vision of shared scarcity in bringing america to a period of managed decline, economic stagnation. we are pushing a vision of renewed prosperity. our budget puts the budget on a ba path to balance and our economy on a path to prosperity. we sincerery belie rly believe budget repairs the safety social net and repairs our economy. it is the right vision and we believe it is what americans want and we believe that's historically in keeping with what created o