hi, everybody. good to see you. i am yasmin vossoughian. we are following some extreme weather impacting millions of people right now. a storm system wreaking havoc in the northeast. the same system leaving tennessee reeling today from the impact of terrifying tornadoes. the funnel clouds caught on camera, the damage is extensive, six people killed, including a two year old. ♪ ♪ ♪ >> we took a tour this morning of the affected neighborhoods. and there is devastation everywhere. but one thing i love about this city, when there is a need, we rally around that need. also this hour, the president of the university of pennsylvania resigning after congressional testimony and antisemitism and calls for her to step down. now, pressure is growing on the other president to appear. and we just a day away from donald trump taking the stand again in his new york fraud trial, this time, testifying in his own defense. this amid growing concerns about what a second trump term would look like. ♪ ♪ ♪ >> certainly, what he is trying to do, and what do you think is gonna do in the future go well beyond any conceivable conduct by prior american presidents, no matter how much they were considered. richard nixon looks -- right next to donald trump. all that, plus republicans in one state proposing a 15-day ban. 15 days. i'll get reaction to that coming up as well. we want to begin with a difficult d a deadly weekend of rough weather. right now, in the northeast, residents are bracing as heavy rain, wind, snow has already begun, expected to batter the region through tomorrow morning. 52 million people from delaware all the way up through maine, flood watches, with torrential downpours continuing overnight as well. new york city, where i am right now, is under a travel advisory. wind gusts up to 50 miles per hour expected a flash flood watch for the city, also going into effect starting in two hours. meanwhile, the northernmost region of new york, get this, it is set to see up to one foot of snow. the same storm has knocked the power out for more than 42,000 customers in tennessee, including some 22,000 in nashville. the mayor says outages in some areas could last all day. and another 70,000 customers are without power in alabama. this is some of the devastation that you are seeing here on your screens in madisonville, tennessee. very small town southwest of knoxville. first responders there, assisting survivors and surveying the damage from the deadly tornado that tore through the states middle region killing at least six people including a two year old child. and that is where we find nbc's priscilla thompson out with more on this. priscilla, if you will, take us, what you are seeing, devastation the community has faced? >> reporter: yes, yasmin. let me give you a sense of that. you can see the devastation behind me. there's actually a tractor here that's getting ready to come through and clear all of this out. but let me give you a sense of where we are standing. there were three people who tragically lost their lives in these tornadoes here in madison, tennessee. last night, 37 year old joseph dalton, 31-year-old perez, and her two-year-old son anthony mendez. and this is where that happened. so, dalton's trailer, right there where you see those steps, actually rolled on to the perez home and that is how that two year old and that woman were killed. and this is sort of what is left of their home. and i just spoke to the husband of that woman and the father of that two year old. he says that there was a bunch of people in this home when that happened. they heard a lot of screaming, a lot of noise, as all of this happened. and he told me that the moment he realized something wasn't right was when he could no longer hear his wife screaming. and so, we met him here today, actually, as he was trying to get into the hall, looking for his life savings in their. and you can see the fire department here, trying to help him find what he was looking for before these structures come in. again, he told me that his wife loved playing with her two-year-old son, that she was a happy person. she had actually only been in the united states for a few months. they are originally from guatemala. and so, right now, he is working with some advocates. there's a lot of family over there, actually, and he is working with advocates to try to get the remains of his wife and his son back to guatemala. but this is some of the tragedy that we are hearing coming out of these tornadoes. there are reports of some 23 tornadoes, 13 in tennessee, and then others across other states. we do know that there was other damage. there was a church in this community also where 13 people had to be taken to the hospital after that building collapsed. and also not far, in clarksville, there were three people who died. we have not received identification on those three people. but certainly, a tragedy, six people in all here in tennessee lost their lives due to these tornadoes. there were some 60 people who were taken to the hospital in clarksville as a result of this. and so, folks just really trying to clean up the downed power lines. people are coming back to see scenes like this, trying to figure out where things go from here. there are around 40,000 people throughout the state who are still without power. officials are saying that it's likely going to be days, not hours, before that power is able to be restored. and so, folks are just trying to figure out what they are going to do, if they are coming home to scenes like this, and how to begin to move forward. yasmin? >> gus, coming for and you live from guatemala, and then your life being cut so tragically short. my heart is breaking for that man right now. priscilla thompson, thank you. appreciate it. i want to switch gears. i want to talk about the new information on the latest court filing from special counsel jack smith in former president trump's election interference case. the motions that were filed last night, they are arguing that trump is attempting to attack the investigation by the man whose witnesses office is calling, quote unquote, unprecedented discovery that resulted in special treatment and delaying the case. i want to bring in msnbc's legal analyst and federal prosecutor glenn kirschner, along with nbc news justice reporter ryan reilly. is also the author of sedition hunters, how january 6th broke the justice system. if you will, ryan, walk us first what the former presidents team is asking, and jack smith and his team's response so far? >> the president's team wants to see any information that the government has, really, sort of doing as the getty on the wall requests here for anything about foreign interference. and the special counsel's team is especially trying to, basically, trying to separate this notion that any election interference from a foreign government, or any attempt at interfering in an election is something that should really be part of this trial. they really want to keep the focus, obviously, on donald trump himself, and say that, you know, the words and actions that he took, and the impact that that had on his supporters is what led to january 6th, not any of these other side issues that trump team is trying to bring into this. they want to simplify this and keep this going forward, and they said explicitly, in fact, they believe that donald trump is just on a fishing expedition here to try to bring something up that will derail this. because ultimately, they know this is really just all about clock management at this point, frankly. this trial is set to go forward in march, barring any action from the appeals court. so, there we want to get this going before the general election actually takes place. >> glenn, tell me -- >> yes, this is the very definition of what they're trying to do, just as ryan said, trying to delay. they know that they don't really have winning arguments. why? because jack smith and his team are keenly aware of their discovery obligations. and what we have seen from past filings is they have given over things that they weren't even required to give over under the rules of discovery. for example, all grand jury transcripts of witnesses who testified, whether or not jack smith intends to present them at trial, that goes beyond the rules of discovery. they have also given over what we call greedy evidence, evidence that could be exculpatory, or it could be helpful to donald trump. so, i don't think that these, you know, these missions that donald trump's lawyers are going on will either produce any additional evidence or will derail the trial date. and i was interested to see that footnote in a recent district of columbia -- the federal circuit court opinion saying listen, if donald trump continues to complain about election interference, this trial in d.c. will be over well in advance of the 2020 presidential election. >> i want to move from d.c. up to new york, ryan, if you will. take us there. looking at images that we were playing, i just want to loop them. the former president saying to the press on thursday when he was in court, when they saw a star witness, essentially, they thought what was a star witness testifying on the defense we have. this and why you accounting professor, he has taken the stand now. what are you gonna be watching for? >> you know, he thought of doing this against the advice of his counsel. in fact, standing right next to him there, she said she doesn't think that he should really be testifying because this sort of gag order is still in place, and she doesn't believe it is fair. but basically, i think this is all about sort of donald trump creating a public sort of spectacle because there doesn't seem to be a ton of reason for him to actually be testifying in this trial. and it could backfire on him potentially. but on the other hand, you know, being in court and making a spectacle out of it is a great fundraising opportunity for him. and he can say, here, look, here i am being prosecuted. get the ball rolling especially as we head to this new year, when he will be in a lot of different courtrooms, including that trial here in d.c., that is scheduled for march. you don't, i think that that is a big opportunity here. he sees it as a media opportunity to try and get more attention and make sure to make a spectacle out of himself, being persecuted in this deal. >> glenn, is the gag order inhibiting his testimony at all? >> it does to the extent he shouldn't be permitted to testify in a wayhawould violate the gag order, talking about the judge's staff, but i think this is a real danger zone. look, donald trump can't command public attention anytime he wants in any form. but when he is placed under oath at trial, and most importantly, he is cross-examined by tish james team, you know, everything he says is potentially an admission that could be used against him in any ongoing criminal investigation in new york. and i'll tell you, what i would grill donald trump on, the intersection between his accounting practices, his valuations, his statements of financial condition, and the 15-year criminal scheme to defraud in the first degree that his organization was convicted of, and that his chief financial officer, allen weisselberg, pled guilty to. and what did you know about that? and why did you not do anything about it? of course, if you did not know about it, that shows that you are perhaps the poorest business leader ever. so, there is a lot of danger here in donald trump being cross-examined under oath, and all of that information being delivered appropriately to district attorney alvin bragg. >> two things i want to drill down on with you, glenn, and that is the expectations of what we are gonna hear from him when it comes to the defense in this new york civil fraud trial. and you brought up one of those kind of statements of financial conditions. are you expecting to hear the same type of defense that we heard from his two sons, which was i wasn't the final sign off on these financial statements? and also, about the valuation, the name that we heard from the nyu accountant professor in which valuations of properties is oftentimes subject, subjective. if you talk about how mar-a-lago is valued, much higher than it is set to be in his financial statements, his apartments, and so on, and so forth. >> i would be interested to know the accounting expert that the trump attorneys put on the stand, who there was a rover revelation was paid hundreds of thousands of dollars by the save america super pac -- >> upwards of half 1 million dollars, i think it was around $800,000. >> and i think you got $900, 000, several hundred thousand from something called the save america back. i couldn't help but cross examine donald trump about whether it's the time to change the name to trump back. all kidding aside, that rotation by jeff mcconney who said all final approval goes through donald trump, that's gonna be an area right for cross-examination. but i think you are exactly right, yasmin. we are gonna hear more denial, more deflection, more failures of memory. and i'm sure he'll walk away from having any responsibility for the financial statements or the valuations of his own properties. >> glen gardner, thank you. ryan riley, thank you as well. we are back in just 60 seconds, folks, with a stunning resignation. the president of the university of pennsylvania stepping down in the wake of anger over the congressional testimony about antisemitism on campus. and she may not be the last college president to go. we'll be right back. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ jen x is planning a summer in portugal with some help from j.p. morgan wealth plan. let's go whiskers. jen y is working with a banker to budget for her birthday. you only turn 30 once. and jen z? her credit's golden. hello new apartment. three jens getting ahead with chase. solutions that grow with you. one bank for now. for later. for life. chase. make more of what's yours. the university of pennsylvania is looking for a new leader today, after president liz magill resigned along with the chairman of the board of trustees. it is coming in the wake of a contentious congressional hearing this week on antisemitism on campus. >> i am asking, calling for the genocide of jews, does that constitute blatant harassment? >> if it is directed and severe and perceived pervasive, it is harassment. >> the answer is yes? >> it is a context dependent decision. >> it is a context dependent decision, that is your testimony today, calling for the genocide of jews is dependent upon the context. joining me now, capitol hill correspondent julie tsirkin to talk more about this. i know congresswoman elise stefanik, who was in that video, asking those questions, part of the reason why this went viral. it was her exchange with university's president. what is she saying now? >> reporter: she swiftly took to, the social media platform, to accept the resignation of president magill, but also saying that this is not over. remember, because of her exchange in part, the committee on the house education committee that held this hearing has launched an investigation. they promised to enforce their full subpoena power to get to the bottom of what stefanik in her tweet said, quote, was the pervasive rock of antisemitism that has destroyed the most prestigious, in her words, high education institutions in america. she said it's time for her to go, meaning magill has left. but for the presidents of harvard and m.i.t., who also sat before the panel, that their time is coming. and i should note, yasmin, stefanik got a shout out because of her interaction with these three presidents by former president donald trump just overnight. >> what are we hearing when it comes to leaders of harvard and m.i.t. as well, who are also part of that congressional testimony? >> reporter: they are certainly being pressured to resign as well. and we know, for example, harvard president claudine gate, there hasn't been any clear direction when it comes from the board, in regards if they want her to resign, unlike what we heard from university of pennsylvania board, who swiftly took the resignation. nonetheless, though -- >> some connectivity issues, julie. we're gonna try and get that fixed for you so we can have you back on in our next hour, certainly, some problems happen when it comes to live television. julie tsirkin, thank you. we're gonna be following that story, obviously, in our two hours ahead. still at, the biden administration responding to criticism over the u.s. veto on the u and push for a cease-fire in gaza. plus, new hampshire republicans are imposing a 15-day abortion ban, yes, 15-day. i want to speak to one of the state legislators about the possibilities of the bill's passage. and a continued look at the dangers of a second trump term. what it could mean for international order to have an american leader who is doubling down on those dictator comments? 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[dog barks] no it's just a bunny! only pay for what you need. ♪liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty.♪ the power goes out, and we still have wifi to do our homework. only pay for what you need. and that's a good thing? great in my book. who are you? no power? no problem. introducing storm-ready wifi. now you can stay reliably connected through power outages with unlimited cellular data and up to 4 hours of battery back-up. plus, now through december 31st, eligible xfinity rewards members can get 25% off welcome back. a storm ready wifi device. new reaction today over the u.s. being the only member nation to veto a u.n. resolution calling for an immediate cease fire between israel and hamas. here is secretary of state tony blinken responding with a reasoning behind that decision. >> when it comes to a cease-fire in this moment with hamas still alive, still intact, and, again, with this state of the intent, repeating october 7th again and again and again, that would simply perpetuate the problem. and so, our focus is on trying to make sure that civilians are protected to the maximum extent possible, that humanitarian assistance gets into the maximum extent possible. and, again, if hamas were to put down weapons tomorrow, surrender tomorrow, this will be over tomorrow. >> joining me now is nbc's hala gorani tonight tel aviv. good to talk to you. the health care situation on the ground in gaza is being called catastrophic. and the pressure is mounting at the rafah border crossing as well. walk us through what is happening on the ground they are right now? >> reporter: yeah, in fact, oxfam, which is another aid organization operating inside the gaza strip, as well as a can with the limited resources has said that the situation has gone, in fact, from catastrophic to apocalyptic, that people are rationing dirty water, and that people are now suffering from common diseases and illnesses and elements that they cannot get treatment for, whether it's diarrhea, skin conditions, people with diabetes unable to access medicine. people with just very common conditions like a cold or developing into pneumonia, et cetera, not able to get medical treatment because the hospital system has collapsed entirely in the north and in the south. it has been put under such intense pressure from the continued bombardment of smaller and smaller enclaves into which the gaza population is being squeezed. many of our viewers know that in the beginning of the conflict, the israeli military told about 1 million gazans to move south into protected areas. and those areas are now routinely being targeted. you mentioned there what anthony blinken said. i want to bring to the attention of our viewers as well, a very interesting phone call that took place between the israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu and the russian president vladimir putin. you know, these two men could not be further apart when it comes to, for instance, iran and their relationship, the close relationship russia has with iran. the conversation lasted 15 minutes, which you would think is quite long for two people who are not on the same side of some of these big questions. benjamin netanyahu criticized russia for supporting that resolution, calling for an immediate humanitarian cease-fire in gaza. and the kremlin has said that the israelis should protect themselves and go after terrorists, but limit civilian casualties, which of course raises eyebrows considering their actions in syria and ukraine. yasmin? >> we also know that the continued assault on gazans by the israelis is only giving putin an upper hand in ukraine as the world's eyes are turning more towards what's happening between israel hamas then what is happening between russia and ukraine right now as well. hala, talk to me about some of the reaction that we are hearing in the region when it comes to the u.s. vetoing that u.n. resolution? >> reporter: so, it is really a reaction of consternation, even though it was expected. it was expected that the united states would veto this united arab emirates sponsored resolution calling for the immediate, an immediate cease fire. the reason the u.s. has given this resolution, it did not contain language explicitly condemning the hamas attacks of october 7th. but the way the arab world is seeing this is that the u.s. is arming israel, that it is essentially closing its eyes to an assault that many in the region consider to be ethnic cleansing. the secretary of state antony blinken in fact reached out to his arab counterparts, including the jordanian foreign minister, who very early on in this conflict even called what israel was doing in the gaza strip genocide. so, there is really a big, big golf developing between the united states and even some of its allies in the region. yasmin? >> hala gorani, thank you. appreciate it. coming up, going to extreme republicans in one state imposing a 15-day abortion ban. you heard that right, 15 days, not weeks! it's coming amid this backlash over the texas state supreme court's decision to block a woman from getting an abortion. now, doctors are saying it is medically necessary to protect her health. we will get to all of this, coming up next. ♪ ♪ ♪ bring the most joy at chewy. this is better than toilet paper get great deals on gifts that deliver excitement, at chewy. whenever you're hungry, there's a deal on the subway app. buy one footlong, get one 50% off in the subway app today. now that's a deal worth celebrating. man, what are you doing?! get it before it's gone on the subway app. ♪♪ welcome back. so, lawmakers are reacting to the latest in a texas abortion fight, after the states supreme court is blocking, for now, and abortion for a woman who had won an exception to the states highly restrictive ban. doctors have said her pregnancy is not liable after her fetus was diagnosed with a condition that can put her own future fertility at risk. texas representative jasmine crockett called kate cox a hero. >> she is the person that has shown strength, when we have a bunch of cowards and ignorant folks that are unfortunately the ones who have power over her, because they are not pro-life, they are pro power, pro patriarchy. and honestly, they are pro ignorance. >> meanwhile, republican lawmakers and new hampshire, they are taking things to an extreme, introducing a bill that would ban abortion at ju 15 days. at that point, a pregnancy has likely not even medically occurred since gestational age is calculated from the first day of the persons period generally around two weeks before a fertilized egg has implanted a uterus. the bill is unlikely to pass and moderate republican governor chris sununu has about to protect access to abortion. but you have to restrict access to abortion after 24 weeks. i want to bring in democratic new hampshire state representative alexis simpson to talk more about this. congresswoman, thanks for joining us on this. appreciate it. so, you have said, it's not enough to try and stop this thing. you have to renounce it. we know it's not gonna get past because sununu has already said it won't. that being said, what do you think the motivation is behind this, 15-day abortion ban? >> well, yasmin, i can't say for sure what the motivation is. but i do know that this is part of the republican strategy for restricting abortion rights. since roe v. wade was overturned, 22 states have banned abortion across the country. and as you have said, two years ago, new hampshire republicans put an abortion ban in our state budget. and really, for the past two years, republicans in new hampshire have filed bills to ban abortion at six weeks. so, this 15-day bill would amount to a complete abortion ban. it would be dangerous, extreme, and out of touch. but we know that granted, status overwhelmingly believe that reproductive health care decisions should be made between patients and their medical providers. so, the sponsors clearly do not understand the realities of women's health care. in our state, as in every state, state legislators are responsible to protect access to abortion rights. >> it will bring up that map, certain areas of this country, becoming deserts when it comes to abortion right, abortion care for women around this country. you hampshire is a state, many in the northeast are still safe states. are you worried about more brands like this being put into effect, getting past, and creating more areas in which women cannot go to seek out abortion care? go to see>> yes, i am, actuall. and unfortunately, this legislation is a continuation of the systemic extreme attempts that republicans have made to restrict abortion for years in new hampshire. and they are not relenting. theould not be more clear for us. new hampshire house democrats, they are standing together to fight against these unrelenting attempts here in new hampshire. and we are partisan passing a constitutional amendment so that we can at the right to abortion into our states constitution. we, as lawmakers, have the responsibility to send this to the voters for them to make their decision. >> you actually previously served as pastor at a congressional church in new hampshire. i know that religion is often cited by those who oppose abortion. but it's not a one size fits all -- the diana court of appeals is actually considering whether it religious freedom law could actually be used to uphold an injunction on the state's abortion ban. what is your message to those who say, abortion should be completely banned on religious grounds? >> i am familiar with that case in indiana. i would have to look at that. thank you for bringing it up. i am a minister in the united church of christ, and we believe that people should have access to reproductive rights, and to health care, in general. so, it is very important to us that all people have that access. so, i can certainly say from my perspective and what i know of others that it is really important that people be able to believe what they believe religiously and unfortunately, some religious attitudes towards abortion are taking a higher consideration than other religious folks view on abortion rights. >> how big a role should abortion rights be, and will abortion rights be in 2024? >> yasmin, i think we will see again in 2024 that abortion rights would be very important. i want to ensure that house democrats will continue to fight against abortion bans and to protect abortion in this upcoming legislative year. but elections up and down the ballots are critical for maintaining access to abortion rights. voters need to get to know their state representatives on their ballot and to vote for legislators who will support reproductive rights. in 2024 and beyond. >> you have your steak representative alexis simpson, thank you so much. appreciate it. i want to bring in now the president and ceo of projected freedom for all. always great to talk to you about this stuff. yet again, we are having the same conversation, different state, different time, getting closer and closer to election, as i just spoke about with state representative from new hampshire. talk me through what you think the motivation is here for this 15-day ban in the state of new hampshire. it's not necessarily a conservative state. they haven't voted for a republican president since george w. bush in 2000. what do you think the motivation is behind this? >> we have talked before about how the republicans just do not have a handle on the extremist activists base and while i get acts asked a lot whether republicans will moderate themselves to perform conform to what voters want. new hampshire, for example, you have this activist group of state house members on the republican side, a 15-day ban is wild when i first read about it, i thought for sure this is a typo, and they mean 15 weeks. 15 days is unheard of. but this is the new hampshire republarty pushing a more radical agenda. and i want to caution, they have a governor's race coming up in 2024. and when governorsununu says he is a moderate and he will veto such legislation, it's not clear his party would be with him. so, it's really important as the state representative said, to look at races up and down the ballot. those races are gonna be key. and abortion could be the thing that shifts folks views on the governor. >> i want to talk texas while i have you. we saw late friday the states supreme court issued as stay in a kate cox case, temporarily blocking her from getting an abortion. and top of that, you have attorney general ken paxton threatening to prosecute cates doctors under sba if they perform the abortion. i spoke yesterday with molly dwayne who was representing her and her case. let's take a listen to what she had to say and then we will talk. >> what we heard last night is that they were temporarily putting the ruling on hold while they consider more. the reality is, when you are talking about life sensitive, time sensitive health care like an abortion for kate, every minute, every hour counts. >> if kate, i mini, were to suffered serious complications as a result of not seeking out, not getting an abortion because of the actions of the texas state attorney general ken paxton, should the state of texas be held liable? >> that's a great argument. it is something for her attorneys or the center of reproductive rights to pursue. you know, ken paxton is a really problematic a.g.. but he is emblematic of the entire. you know, he barely escaped indictment, and he barely escaped impeachment by his own party. he and his cohort in the state have been pushing these extremist laws. and it's really remarkable, you know, this is about the exceptions in there than, right? and what we have said over and over again, exceptions don't work and in this case, there is a pretty good example of why it was designed not to work. and they had to take the stage to court to make sure they can understand and propagate the exception, right? and they're not able to because ken paxton has no interest. the legislature had no interest in creating a real enforceable exception. so, kate maybe in serious trouble. every single minute she's waiting for a decision, she is putting her life at risk. the state of texas is torturing her. and therefore, i think it's a really plausible argument to hold them liable. but also, it's an example, again, of how republicans have just become -- when it comes to abortion rights, and they are showing no signs of stopping or moderating. >> do you feel ready for 2024? you feel democrats are ready for 2024 and fighting for abortion rights, putting it as the number one, two, three issue going into the next election? >> i think. so you know, democrats have been really unequivocal. and we have been saying for a long time to our friends in the democratic party, you can't just be against a national abortion ban. you have to be for a proactive abortion rights. we are seeing that. we are seeing that in fights in states like ohio, michigan where they just passed the reproductive health act with governor whitmer's leadership. we are seeing states like california where they are expanding access. and we are seeing in congress where they are fighting for women health protection, and president biden is committed to making it, the first thing he signed, should he be elected, and get the trifecta. we are feeling good. abortion silence is gonna continue. the challenge is these 21 states that have banned restrictions, many of them are with hyper red legislatures, supermajorities. we're gonna have a tough time without federal legislation, which only happens if we win a federal trifecta. >> mini timmaraju, as always, we are thankful for you. the danger, everybody, donald trump. we're gonna continue our weekend long look at the danger if trump wins. up next, the damage he can do to a precarious world. we will be right back. ♪ ♪ ♪ 4 hours. for one and done heartburn relief, prilosec otc. one pill a day, 24 hours, zero heartburn. well, i saw the other day where he pledged to be a dictator on day one. and you kind of wonder what it will take for people to believe him when he tells us who he is. >> donald trump has made it clear, he is in line with every dictator, autocrat, kleptocrat on earth. and they are all against american democracy. >> what was your reaction to hearing those words, senator? do you believe him? >> donald trump is kind of a human gumbel machine, which is a fog, where emotion comes in and comes out of his mouth. i do think you can look at his record as president, and particularly in the last months of his presidency and say this is a dangerous approach, it's an authoritarian approach. >> all right, so, they're not the only ones raising red flags if donald trump is reelected in 2024. in the atlantic mass again magazine series if trump wins, a group of riders are taking a stark look at what the former president might do if he is reelected. anne applebaum is writing about what could come the international world order, quote, if trump is reelected, and icons will be so consumed by the drama of their own failing institutions that, for a long while, most won't note the problems caused by the shifting international order. anne applebaum joins me now to talk more about this. anne, thanks for joining us on this. appreciate it. i'm gonna read a bunch from your piece because i want folks to really get a sense of what it is that is being kind of put out there. you write this, in a second term, trump would be surrounded by people who either share his dislike of american security alliances, or don't know anything about them, and don't care. and many talk about john bolton, quote, the damage he did in his first term term was repairable. the damage in his second term would be irreparable. can you dig more into what it is that bolton told you here, anne? >> so, bolton and i were talking about nato. and we were talking about trump's attitude to european allies, asian allies, to american democratic allies around the world. trump feels no natural kinship with other democracies. he doesn't think of himself as the leader of the democratic world, like presidents before him, since at least the second world war have always done. he thinks of himself rather as a transactional figure. you know, he admires dictators. he preferred, he really enjoyed the time he spent with kim jong-un, the dictator of north korea. he embarrassed the united states by appearing to tout putin, the dictator of russia. you know, he seemed happier and more content when he was in that world. and he has seen and understood that way outside the united states. people look at him and they see not an american president of the kind they have seen in the past, who believes in institutions and alliances, and would want to work together with like-minded states. and i think bolton is not the only one. my article is full of quotes from lots of other people who believe that if trump is in office for a second time, you know, without the people who were around the first time, trying to persuade him to stay inside traditional lines, that he will break those lines, alliances. he will end the tradition of american western collective security. he will abandon american allies. and that could unleash a wave of chaos around the world. >> you are talking about withdrawing possibly from nato here, threatening to withdraw from nato is certainly part of his campaign strategy in the lead up to his first election. it was something he threatened to do throughout his time as president of united states. we talk about folks like john kelly, general mattis, people around him that were certainly seeming to be kind of the adults in the room when it came to nato and talk about the importance of nato to him, hence one of the reasons why he did not withdraw the first time around. how difficult would it be in your writing and in what you found for donald trump, if he were reelected, to withdraw from nato, withdraw this country from nato? >> so, if he were to make some kind of analysis, they would of course be huge political pushback. the senate would rally, probably, former chairman of the joint chiefs of staff would protest. there would be a lot of noise. but the thing that, i think, many people don't understand about nato it's really a treaty, it's a legal document. but really, there's a psychological element to it. you know, nato works because russia, and before russia the soviet union, believe in it. so they believe that, you know, as article fi, e famous article five of the treaty says that if one member of the alliance was attacked, then the other members would come to that country's aid. once they don't believe that anymore, once they don't believe trump will do that, whatever the documents say, whatever the senate says, the military, and so on, how is there any deterrence. why would not they attacked poland, or why wouldn't they not bomb the supply lines bringing weapons into ukraine? once they are not afraid of the united states anymore, and then, you know, there is nothing to stop them. >> you also write about ukraine. without a nato and without an american commitment to european security, supplies for ukraine would also dry up. what would be the future for ukraine with a united states no longer a part of nato under a donald trump presidency? >> this, of course, is a question for this week as well, while we are having an argument in the senate about ukrainian aid. look, the goals of putin now are the same as they were two years ago. his goal is to destroy ukraine, destroy all of ukraine, to occupy kyiv, to put the public government in place, to kill zelenskyy or to chase him out of the country. that is what he said he wanted to do, and as far as what we know, he hasn't changed his mind. he's not interested in negotiating, he's not interested in his famous off-ramp. that's what he wants. the consequences of failure to save ukraine, russian troops march into ukraine, they occupy the country. they arrest hundreds of thousands of people, millions of refugees, not just 2 million, 3 million, 10 million people will probably escape the country. you know, the concentration camps created all over the country, prisons, jails, just as like there's in the russian territory. >> the reality of that potential is certainly very concerning. anne applebaum, thank you so much, appreciate it. coming up in our next hour, everybody, congressman mary gay scanlon of pennsylvania joins me to the u.n. of pennsylvania resignation. bless her thoughts on the gop push for a biden impeachment inquiry. much, much more as well. up next, though, after being banned from twitter for five years, conspiracy theorist alex jones is being allowed back on the platform today by none other than elon musk. we will be right back. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ but i like this. get a light scent that lasts with no heavy perfumes or dyes. 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(♪♪) detect this: living with hiv, i learned that i can stay undetectable with fewer medicines. that's why i switched to dovato. dovato is a complete hiv treatment for some adults. no other complete hiv pill uses fewer medicines to help keep you undetectable than dovato. detect this: most hiv pills contain 3 or 4 medicines. dovato is as effective with just 2. if you have hepatitis b, don't stop dovato without talking to your doctor. don't take dovato if you're allergic to its ingredients or taking dofetilide. this can cause serious or life-threatening side effects. if you have a rash or allergic reaction symptoms, stop dovato and get medical help right away. serious or life-threatening lactic acid buildup and liver problems can occur. tell your doctor if you have kidney or liver problems or if you are pregnant, breastfeeding, or considering pregnancy. dovato may harm an unborn baby. most common side effects are headache, nausea, diarrhea, trouble sleeping, tiredness, and anxiety. detect this: i stay undetectable with fewer medicines. ask your doctor about switching to dovato. >> welcome back. elon musk announced today that he slotting far-right conspiracy theorists alex jones back on x. jones hadn't banned from ex since 2018 when the social media platform was still known as twitter. musk put out a poll this morning and he asked users whether or not he should reinstate jones, to which 70% said he should. alex jones has floated bogus conspiracy theories ranging from qanon to saying the government controls the weather. in october 2022, jones was ordered to pay nearly one billion dollars to the families of sandy hook victims for alleging the massacre was staged. earlier today, the nobel peace prize was awarded in oslo, norway. this year's winner, the 51 year old was not in attendance because she is imprisoned in an iranian jail. her twin teenage children accepted the honor on her behalf. the reason, fighting against women's oppression in iran and advocating for human rights. that is exactly why the nobel peace committee recognized her hard work, saying, quote, her brave struggle has come with tremendous personal cost. the regime has arrested her 13 times, convicted her five times, and sentenced her to a total of 31 years in prison. we have a lot more coming up. you're watching msnbc. our second hour starts right now. hey, everybody. amazement of sudan. if you are joining us, welcome. if you are just joining us, we are thankful for that. millions of people are in the path