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The 11th Hour With Stephanie Ruhle

not always easy to elect the sorts of judgments, so there's a long road ahead for ms. carroll and i do wish her team the best now. that they've gotten the verdict they should be able to collect the judgment but, i do not expect that this will be without any challenges. >> cynthia, new topic. george santos now facing federal charges. we do not know the details, but what are you going to be looking for when we do get more? >> i am guessing that these are campaign finance violations. he loaned his campaign about $700, 000, which is somewhat miraculous, because he was broke. right. i am looking to find out how he got that money and whether it is just straight-up fraud or some other campaign finance violation. and i am also looking to see whether or not the fbi interviewed him and he lied to the fbi numerous times and there are 1001 charges which would be even easier to prove. i'm looking for those thousand and ones and i am expecting we will see them. >> charles, what do think he's

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The 11th Hour With Stephanie Ruhle

>> e. jean carroll was listened to, she was believed, and she has found some level of justice. charles, what is your take? >> i think what we are talking about with this case, stephanie, is the affirmation of what a lot of people knew. we knew donald trump had no aversion to respecting women, we knew donald trump had no aversion to violating women's rights, and so this not only affirmed that but it went to affirm the fact that we also knew that donald trump had no aversion to lying. and this is something that the jury is now held accountable for it to the tune of $5 million, or over my 5 million, dollars and it is quite significant. i also want to point out, from a legal standpoint, it was actually brilliant that her attorneys did not seek an actual dollar amount. usually with these kinds of cases, you have a specific dollar amount in damages that is requested by the plaintiffs. e. jean carroll made this very, very clear that she did not want money, she was not and it for the money, so they did give

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The 11th Hour With Stephanie Ruhle

they do not want to go against him because the political reality is difficult for them in the primaries. >> something donald trump hates besides losing's money. paying money to other people. charles, i heard today from a lawyer that said if there is any judge that will compel him, that will force him to pony up the dough it is judge kaplan. do you think he's going to pay? >> i think he's going to do everything that he can to avoid payment, and i think that is something that carroll's team will really be on in collecting this judgment. i think the judge in this case can make it easier or more difficult. as we know, donald trump has been at the head of the very convoluted, byzantine, almost criminal enterprise as it pertains to how and where he moves his money. so, i fully expect for him to cry broke, and at the same time, miraculously and very hypocritically profess himself as a successful businessman to some of the potential voters that he is trying to court in the 2024 election. but that notwithstanding, it is

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The 11th Hour With Stephanie Ruhle

liable for sexual assault and defamation and a united states congressman who has been federally indicted and may be facing additional charges at the state level. beyond the political implications for anyone's party or anyone's elections, the fact that this is where our democracy is should be of extreme and great concern for all of us. >> file under this is not normal. tim, cynthia, charles, thank you all for breaking it down and starting us off. when we come back, and then a man looking to run against donald trump for the republican nomination speaking out against the former president tonight. my conversation with a presidential candidate and former arkansas governor, asa hutchinson on the other side of the break. and later, the high stakes meeting over the debt limit at the white house. with just weeks to go before a potential disaster government default. the 11th hour just getting underway on a very busy tuesday news night.

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The 11th Hour With Stephanie Ruhle

executive editor and author of trump nation, the art of being the donald. cynthia alksne, former federal prosecutor in the civil rights division of the justice department, and former prosecuted civil rights attorney charles f. coleman. all right, guys, we have a lot to cover. i did not even mention the debt limit meeting, which i've got to be honest, i have been at work all day long and i saw that is what we are going to cover tonight. we will get to that later in the hour. cynthia, let's start with donald trump. it is actually a mixed verdict, the jury did not find him liable for rape, but they also came out with a very high dollar amount that e. jean carroll was not even looking for. what is your reaction? >> i think it is great verdict, and not even necessarily that mixed for me. they found him guilty to be a sexual predator and basically what the jury said to donald trump is that you are a liar, because he came to them through that deposition and said i do not even know this woman, i didn't even do it.

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Ayman

standoff. he was there in waco in 1993 and he blows up the federal building in oklahoma city exactly two years later to the day. so, we know that this kind of event -- anti government -- can incite horrible violence. troubles trump is there tonight -- >> charles f. coleman, we have a grand jury set to take up this matter -- go back to something frank said -- there's also georgia. -- two investigations. how do you see new york fitting in the bigger picture? >> i think new york will be the first domino to fall. and -- instructed to other law enforcement officials. -- prosecutors, how to move forward once you get an indictment. so it's critical to understand the first half, is that you have to -- we are not there yet. i expect we will see movement on that this week. but it's also important to understand, alicia menendez --

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possibly related to national security, could have excited -- we will bring our panel back. and we will start, charles, -- is east women in washington, apparently, on executive privilege -- trump expected to appeal based on -- thus far. do you think it holds? >> i think that the ruling will hold, because the executive privilege is -- he had when he is president, he is no longer president. the privilege belongs to joe biden, who has consistently waited. this is not an issue that i think courts are going to allow trump to hide behind when you are talking about the investigation and prosecution of what happened on january 6th. it's another point that i want to make on this. mark meadows is really, really important to actually tying everything together. to the extent that prosecutors would be able to get any information out of him, he is the one person we have actually heard a little bit from mike pence in the public. >> -- >> correct, right? mark mike pence is the -- have not heard anything from.

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counter intelligence at the fbi -- and charles coleman -- msnbc legal analyst and michelle goldberg, columnist for the new york times and msnbc political analyst. it is good to see you all. charles, i want to start with you, and it was something that joe tacopina, -- as he was with reverend al earlier today -- some of their exchange. take a listen. >> -- >> before the election you have his lawyer that made the payments. it was because of the election. and it's because of personal embarrassment to himself and his -- >> it doesn't matter -- >> cause of the election -- i'm not a lawyer. >> the -- chairman said it does matter -- something -- exclusively the campaign. then it's out of the campaign. -- funds -- campaign funds. >> -- my question watching that is --

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and to the extent prosecutors are able to get information out of him, that will be vital toward moving forward in terms of deciding what charges donald trump may face ryan january 6th and what happened there. >> i agree with charles that -- other officials ordered to testify include the former director of national intelligence, john ratcliffe, ex national security adviser, robert o'brien, ken cuccinelli. your -- of how vital that testimony could prove to be in the doj's case? >> we are now as close as we are going to get to trump. we are talking about the associates aides and appointees who surrounded trump and, particularly mark meadows, you will recall from january six committee testimony, for example, cassidy hutchinson's testimony, mark meadows literally in the room, people trying to all day, to something with the president, what's

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talk about 18 court, likely, mostly, out of political motivation. >> i would say we don't know that he put it all in the book. >> they are enough, fair enough. and so i think he's been tryng to walk this fine line of separating himself from trump without alienating the trump -ish base. i think it's a huge project tat mike pence is obviously never going to be president -- but mike pence doesn't realize that. and so he still -- he shows more honor than other people in trump circle, that's a low bar. but he still -- he hasn't totally burned his bridges yet. and pretty soon he's going to sort of have no choice to tell the full story. >> michelle goldberg, a wonderful catch on my colloquial use of his putting it all in the book. charles f. coleman, and frank figliuzzi, thank you all so much for getting us started. coming up, congresswoman madeleine dean is here to

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