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Our NHS isn't too big to fail (we have seen failure after failure) but it is too big to run. Yet despite countless needless deaths no-one ever carries the can, writes Annabelle Sanderson.
older. _ simple maths, that people are living older. they— simple maths, that people are living older, they are more likely to live longer. _ older, they are more likely to live longer. not — older, they are more likely to live longer, not more healthily necessarily, but with chronic disease. _ necessarily, but with chronic disease, whether it is heart disease. _ disease, whether it is heart disease, dementia, things that we cannot— disease, dementia, things that we cannot treat but we do need to take care of _ cannot treat but we do need to take care of i_ cannot treat but we do need to take care of. i naturally feel at seven out of _ care of. i naturally feel at seven out of every £10 the nhs spends —— if you _ out of every £10 the nhs spends —— if you look— out of every £10 the nhs spends —— if you look at... it tells you the challenge — if you look at... it tells you the challenge we have got on getting a -rip, challenge we have got on getting a grip. if— challenge we have got on getting a grip, if you like, on that growing nhs budget but is actually those are demographic changes all countries are grappling with. it is not so simple — are grappling with. it is not so simple if— are grappling with. it is not so simple if we move to a different system — simple if we move to a different system somehow, that taking care of those _ system somehow, that taking care of those horrible people get cheaper, and i_ those horrible people get cheaper, and i do _ those horrible people get cheaper, and i do think the answer lies in, no doubt. — and i do think the answer lies in, no doubt. a— and i do think the answer lies in, no doubt, a greater focus on public health— no doubt, a greater focus on public health and keeping people healthy, rather— health and keeping people healthy, rather than waiting for them, in a sense. _ rather than waiting for them, in a sense. to — rather than waiting for them, in a sense, to get ill and trying fix those problems. the final point to make _ those problems. the final point to make it _ those problems. the final point to make it probably is, i do a lot of work— make it probably is, i do a lot of work on — make it probably is, i do a lot of work on social mobility. we know that the _ work on social mobility. we know that the link between socioeconomic background, those social
medical students. we will come back to you in a minute, the plan - medical students. we will come back to you in a minute, the plan here, i to you in a minute, the plan here, is this something you're broadly welcoming? taste is this something you're broadly welcoming?— is this something you're broadly welcomin: ? ~ . _, welcoming? we are welcoming it, obviously the _ welcoming? we are welcoming it, obviously the government - welcoming? we are welcoming it, obviously the government has - welcoming? we are welcoming it, obviously the government has putj obviously the government has put {2.4 obviously the government has put £24 billion into the beginning of that £2.4 billion into the beginning of that plan— £24 billion into the beginning of that plan in the first five years. that's — that plan in the first five years. that's a — that plan in the first five years. that's a very small part of the total— that's a very small part of the total nhs budget, so we will be taking _ total nhs budget, so we will be taking a cautious look at how much of that— taking a cautious look at how much of that money will be focused on midwives— of that money will be focused on midwives and the wider maternity workforce — midwives and the wider maternity workforce. that's because there's considerable problems, we are at least _ considerable problems, we are at least 2500 midwives short at the moment, — least 2500 midwives short at the moment, and i thinkjust thinking about— moment, and i thinkjust thinking about the — moment, and i thinkjust thinking about the previous speaker, actually supporting _ about the previous speaker, actually supporting newly qualified midwives and doctors is really key, because we really — and doctors is really key, because we really want them to have a good experience — we really want them to have a good experience in the profession, so it's really— experience in the profession, so it's really important that nhs england and the government get this right _ england and the government get this right rind_ england and the government get this ritht. �* . england and the government get this ritht. . . ., england and the government get this ritht. . . ,, ., right. and what about the issue of the money? _ right. and what about the issue of the money? because _ right. and what about the issue of the money? because clearly - right. and what about the issue of the money? because clearly thatl right. and what about the issue of| the money? because clearly that is such a big news issue at the moment, what's your stance on it? taste such a big news issue at the moment, what's your stance on it? we welcome that it's funded, _
town is found to be invested in high streets up and down the country. we will be outlining the third round of submissions to that fund. i am quite sure my honourable friend will make a very vigorous case for his constituency for funding during that round. , ._ constituency for funding during that round. , i, i, i, round. yesterday i met karen. karen is a carer for— round. yesterday i met karen. karen is a carer for her— round. yesterday i met karen. karen is a carer for her husband _ round. yesterday i met karen. karen is a carer for her husband alan. - round. yesterday i met karen. karen is a carer for her husband alan. he i is a carerfor her husband alan. he has parkinson's and dementia. karen told me how hard it is to get people with powerjust to listen to her. like so many carers, karen feels her caring workjust isn't valued. at times, she has wanted to give up, but no she must carry on because of her husband. mr speaker, remarkable carers like karen save the government more than the entire nhs budget. will the government finally recognise the value of britain's family carers and notjust pay tribute to them and give them the
budget would have to be squeezed, and the nhs budget would have to be squeezed, are you comfortable with that? , ., , , ., ., that? obviously, we are not comfortable _ that? obviously, we are not comfortable that _ that? obviously, we are not comfortable that other - that? obviously, we are not| comfortable that other areas that? obviously, we are not - comfortable that other areas will sutter— comfortable that other areas will suffer if— comfortable that other areas will suffer if that _ comfortable that other areas will suffer if that is _ comfortable that other areas will suffer if that is the _ comfortable that other areas will suffer if that is the actual- comfortable that other areas will suffer if that is the actual fact i suffer if that is the actual fact out with. _ suffer if that is the actual fact out with. you _ suffer if that is the actual fact outwith, you know, - suffer if that is the actual fact outwith, you know, the - suffer if that is the actual fact outwith, you know, the pay. suffer if that is the actual fact i outwith, you know, the pay rise suffer if that is the actual fact - outwith, you know, the pay rise we are asking _ outwith, you know, the pay rise we are asking for. _ outwith, you know, the pay rise we are asking for, and _ out with, you know, the pay rise we are asking for, and of— outwith, you know, the pay rise we are asking for, and of the _ outwith, you know, the pay rise we are asking for, and of the day, - outwith, you know, the pay rise we are asking for, and of the day, what members _ are asking for, and of the day, what members would _ are asking for, and of the day, what members would accept _ are asking for, and of the day, what members would accept would - are asking for, and of the day, what members would accept would not . are asking for, and of the day, what- members would accept would not break the bank _ members would accept would not break the bank we _ members would accept would not break the bank we are — members would accept would not break the bank. we are not _ members would accept would not break the bank. we are not being _ members would accept would not break the bank. we are not being greedy, - the bank. we are not being greedy, the bank. we are not being greedy, the nurses— the bank. we are not being greedy, the nurses themselves _ the bank. we are not being greedy, the nurses themselves drop - the bank. we are not being greedy, the nurses themselves drop their. the nurses themselves drop their demand — the nurses themselves drop their demand from _ the nurses themselves drop their demand from 19% _ the nurses themselves drop their demand from 19% to _ the nurses themselves drop their demand from 19% to 9%. - the nurses themselves drop their demand from 19% to 9%. all - the nurses themselves drop their demand from 19% to 9%. all we i the nurses themselves drop their - demand from 19% to 9%. all we want is a meaningful— demand from 19% to 9%. all we want is a meaningful discussion _ demand from 19% to 9%. all we want is a meaningful discussion and - is a meaningful discussion and enough — is a meaningful discussion and enough pay— is a meaningful discussion and enough pay to— is a meaningful discussion and enough pay to keep _ is a meaningful discussion and enough pay to keep staff, - is a meaningful discussion and i enough pay to keep staff, retain staff so — enough pay to keep staff, retain staff so that _ enough pay to keep staff, retain staff so that they— enough pay to keep staff, retain staff so that they can _ enough pay to keep staff, retain staff so that they can carry- enough pay to keep staff, retain staff so that they can carry on i staff so that they can carry on working — staff so that they can carry on working and _ staff so that they can carry on working and have _ staff so that they can carry on working and have a _ staff so that they can carry onl working and have a full career. staff so that they can carry on - working and have a full career. can i ask as working and have a full career. can i ask as well. _ working and have a full career. i ask as well, because the other unions postpone the strike does not mean they will not strike again in future, of course, do you feel emboldened today that you are the only union striking in wails, or slightly vulnerable? ida. only union striking in wails, or slightly vulnerable?— only union striking in wails, or
on the table, and they say that possibly other areas of the budget would have to be squeezed, and the nhs budget would have to be squeezed, are you comfortable with that? obviously, we are not comfortable that other areas will suffer, - if that is the actual fact or whether, you know, | but the pay rise we are asking for, and what members - would accept would not break the bank. we are not being greedy, the nurses themselves i dropped their demands from 19% to 9%. - all we want is a meaningful- discussion and enough pay to keep staff, more importantly retain staff so that they can - carry on working and have a full career. i can i ask as well, because the other unions postponed their strike, it does not mean they will not
the government says is a double digit pay rise in line with inflation is simply unaffordable, it is patient care that would suffer if that kind of pay award was made because it would have to come out of the nhs budget. because it would have to come out of the nhs budget-— the nhs budget. quite simply, what is affectin: the nhs budget. quite simply, what is affecting patient _ the nhs budget. quite simply, what is affecting patient care _ the nhs budget. quite simply, what is affecting patient care at _ the nhs budget. quite simply, what is affecting patient care at the - is affecting patient care at the moment is the huge vacancy rate and the disengagement of nhs staff who have seen ten years of a fall in standard of living, and the idea that the nhs is not a special case, after the pandemic, when our members were working after the prime minister was being fined for attending parties, it seems incredulous to argue that this is not a special case that needs special attention.— not a special case that needs special attention. this is what we have heard _ special attention. this is what we have heard from _ special attention. this is what we have heard from the _ special attention. this is what we have heard from the chief - special attention. this is what we i have heard from the chief executive of the nhs providers, he says, four more days of strikes by gmb ambulance staff will deal another blow to already overloaded health services, things are likely to only get worse if these strikes go ahead,
ben zaranko, senior research economist at the institute for fiscal studies, says the pay claim lodged by the nurses comes at a time when the nhs budget is incredibly stretched. the first thing is that if you were going to give nurses a 19% pay rise, you would have to provide additional funding to the nhs to pay for that. that would mean, probably, higher taxes at some point, that is the thing the government is wrestling with, it seems to have been bumped up against the limits it is willing to raise the taxes, and that is why it is resisting calls for additional spending. it would also add demand to the economy, nurses being able to spend more, and it could act as a benchmark to which private sector employers, their workers, might start demanding something similar to the nurses. it might add somewhat to inflationary pressures towards the economy. of course, a lot would depend on the specifics.
that would mean, probably, higher taxes at some point, that is the thing the government is resting with, it seems to have been bumped up with, it seems to have been bumped up against the limits it is willing to raise the taxes, that is why it is resisting calls for additional spending. it would also add demand to the economy, nurses being able to spend more, could act as a benchmark to which the private sector employers, their workers, to which the private sector employers, theirworkers, might employers, their workers, might start employers, theirworkers, might start demanding something similar to the nurses. it might add somewhat to inflationary pressures towards the economy. of course a lot will depend on the specific. the main thing is what it would mean for the nhs budget. matthew taylor, chief executive of the nhs confederation joins us now. thank you forjoining us. i don't know if you could hear much of the previous casque,— know if you could hear much of the previous casque, what do you make of his words, previous casque, what do you make of his words. that _ previous casque, what do you make of his words, that this _ previous casque, what do you make of his words, that this is _ previous casque, what do you make of his words, that this is something - his words, that this is something
i'm not going to make promises i can't keep, plucking things out of thin air, but i would be prepared to negotiate if we were in government today, and i think that's the least we could expect. mr streeting has had his own run—in with a health union, the bma, which accused him of attacking it in the sunday telegraph this morning. he has claimed the doctor's' union treated him like a heretic for saying there should be better standards for patients. all sides say they don't want the nurses' walk—outs to go ahead but without the government agreeing to talk about pay they will be on the picket lines come thursday. this is of course just one of many strikes this month as the country faces a significantly disrupted december. helen catt, bbc news. ben zaranko, senior research economist at the institute for fiscal studies, says the pay claim lodged by the nurses comes at a time when the nhs budget is incredibly stretched. the first thing is that if you were going to give nurses a 19% pay rise you would have to provide additional funding to the nhs to pay for that.