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All In With Chris Hayes

>> okay, can i ask you a quick question on timing? >> yeah. >> that harry teased, right. there is a back and forth about a possibility of some sort of re-man. what did you make of that? >> well, i think it's because in the civil context, this same court recently decided an appeal with respect to three cases brought by former police officers, members of congress, who have sued trump civilly. and in that case, and fine -- you know, the civil rule is that a president does have immunity within the outer perimeter of this official duties. because of, that they sent it back to the lower court to determine, what, what was he doing here? was he acting in his official capacity, or some personal capacity? that makes sense where you're talking about the civil rule. but, here the court has to fashion the rule in the first place, right? judge chutkan's lower court decision says there is no criminal immunity of any kind. so it's unclear whether they will need to re-manned at all. and they're supposed to take these facts as true. >> all right, charles coleman, lisa rubin, thank you both, that was great. still to, come the

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Newsday

the legal abstraction. for example, trompe's lawyers have argued that precedents —— president should be immune to the outer perimeter of their official actions, so what does that actually mean in practice? that is where the circuitjudge had questioned tran�*s lawyer. does it include a president sending someone to assassinate his political rivals, and doesn't allow the president to self pardon? every time she asked this question, trumped's lawyer tried to kind of dance around the question at first, but essentially said that the answer was yes, the president would be immune, and unless the president was impeached and removed from office. now consider what that means. under this hypothetical, and again this hypothetical, and again this is why hypotheticals come up this is why hypotheticals come up so often in legal arguments and why they can be so clarifying, a president under

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CNN This Morning

on the other side to say here, a president orders his seal team to assassinate a political rival and resigns, for example, before an impeachment not a criminal act. the president sells a pardon, resigns or not impeached, not a crime. i think that is extraordinarily frightening fewer. >> cnn illegal analyst elie honig is with us. good morning. riveting i thought to listen to the entire thing yesterday. talk to us about the core argument on both sides. >> we got to nerd out. it was glorious. the nation got to see our criminal justice process in action. high level. well done by all the judges and lawyers yesterday. let's talk about the arguments. now, donald trump's team in the written briefs, the memos they submit before the hearing they made this argument, they said donald trump is immune here because what he's charged with doing fell within the outer perimeter of his job as the president. that was what he said going into the argument. that's what i was expecting to

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The Ingraham Angle

you have to have an appellate court that normally doesn't look at a trial court until it's over. but, when you have an issue like immunity, that has to go up the court of appeals before the trial takes place. so these are preliminary issues that require some appellate guidance. appellate guidance takes time. i think this immunity issue is going to have to go to the supreme court of the united states. >> laura: 81% of democrat, chris, believe that trump sudden had should be essentially taken off the ballot. >> that's what is so sad. immunity for presidential actions. they transcend the particular person at issue are 81% of democrats happy with the thought that president biden could be criminally charged by some grand jury in texas arch his term in office is over? that's the pandora's box that's been opened now. if we start to say that presidents have no immunity for their actions within the outer perimeter of their office, it's open season on the president. >> laura: chris, gr great to see you don't. on both issues.

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Anderson Cooper 360

only is this immunity, this criminal immunity for basically any action relating to his job that he seeks not consistent with our constitutional traditions. it would be an essential element for an authoritarian regime, so i don't think there's any chance it will be accepted, and even if some kind of criminal immunity were accepted by the courts, it certainly wouldn't cover the conduct he engaged in here which was basically antithetical to his duties as president of the united states, so in the sufficiently recommend which is the case that he's relying on, the only immunity that a president gets is for actions that occur within the outer perimeter of their official responsibility. here he was way outside the outer perimeter. he was actually undermining his duties. >> how long do you think it will take for the court to rule? >> i think it will be a matter of days. i think the court of appeals obviously knows what the

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The Last Word With Lawrence ODonnell

argument -- arguing here alternative arguments, one is that criminal immunity simply doesn't apply. in other words, there is simply no doctrine of presidential immunity for former presidents when it comes to a criminal case, no matter what happens in the civil arena, it's not for a criminal case. i'm gonna see whether the court adopts that broad sweep that judge chuck and did. their backup argument is that even if it applies to what's called the outer perimeter of the president functions, this case does not involve conduct that is within the president's functions. but i'm gonna be interested in whether they go down the route of what judge chutkan said, which i think is the more correct view of what has been ruled on, obviously by the supreme court, or the court of appeals. the second issue i'm gonna be really focused on is whether

Immunity , Words , He-wasn-t-the-only-one , Argument , Arguments , Presidents , Doctrine , Doesn-t-apply , One , Donald-trump , Case , Court

Anderson Cooper 360

governance is governance of criminals, the governance of criminal mobs, and essential element of that is immunity, or impunity, the ability to break the law, make the law whatever the leader wanted it to be. and not only is this immunity, criminal immunity for basically any action related to this job that he seeks, it's not consistent with our constitutional tradition, it would be an essential element for an authoritarian regime. i don't think there's any chance it's gonna be accepted. indeed, even if some kind of criminal immunity were accepted by the court, it wouldn't cover the conduct he engaged in here which was basically anti-ethical to his duties as president of the united states. in the civil realm, the cases that he's relying on, the only immunity that our president gets's for actions that occur within the outer perimeter of

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The Last Word With Lawrence ODonnell

glenn will be in the room for the oral arguments to more morning in washington, d. c. in the appeals court. andrew weissmann, what will you be listening keenly for in this argument? >> two things. the government is going to be arguing here alternative arguments, one is that criminal immunity simply doesn't apply. in other words, there is simply no doctrine of presidential immunity for former presidents when it comes to a criminal case, no matter what happens in the civil arena, it's not for a criminal case. i'm gonna be intersted to see whether the court adopts that broad sweep that judge chuck did. their backup argument is that even if it applies to what's called the outer perimeter of the president functions, this case does not involve conduct that is within the president's functions.

Things , Government , Argument , Appeals-court , Arguments , Glenn-kirschner , Andrew-weissmann , Room , D-c- , Two , Immunity , One

Trump Immunity Appeal

an impeachment and conviction, and it can lead to absurd results. impeachment is different, because impeachment could be political and based on a number of factors and this is a different ball game altogether than a decision to prosecute and eventually convict somebody, and the thing that i keep coming back to, they had an easier way, and trump's team had a better way and they briefed an easier way, and they just said that what he is charged with is the scope of the outer perimeter of his job as president, and if they stuck to that, i still think they would have had a losing argument, but not a preposterous argument and stronger case to make. >> well, first of all, think about this, what that would suggest is as long as i can hide my behavior long enough to be in office and avoid impeachment, i can get away with anything i want and all i have to do is to not have transparency and eyes into what i am doing, and what i have to do is what i know about

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Trump Immunity Appeal

that a president could actually order the assassination and if he is not impeached and convicted immune. >> he is trying to make the argument for jack smith, and this is what jack smith is warning about, are we a country of represents or kings. and trump's lawyer is saying we are a country of presidents and the president can act as he wants or chooses and we have violence. we have violence of january 6th, but the president himself can direct that violence openly and using the official government resources and this is fine. i think that what it does is to establish how dangerous this presidential immunity argument truly is, and to your point, elie, we could have had the original argument speaking about the outer perimeter. hey, i was doing my job, and to protect me and the institution, i should be given the coverage the same way the presidents get the civil immunity and we should

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