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balance on this is what cases are brought by what sounds like a reinvigorated department of justice and fbi and intelligence community. what cases are brought. what are those charges and what is a federal judge do in the face of those charges if they are proven? what do the sentences look like. this can be an exactf fimpactfu reenvision. what does that look like to a federal judge. the seriousness of those leaks. there has been very serious leaking in washington. you see on a range of topics. some of this incredibly sensitive and damaging think snowden. think bradley manning. >> this is not a time of snowden or bradley manning. we haven't had one of those in a while. the last administration was
>> have i some beans at home. they are south american beans just for that purpose. >> it is choc full of nuts. >> you said we should fire this guy and every other union worker. >> this is amazing. all are slight fabrications to make me seem like a crazier left wing nut, but that's fine. carry on. >> you would rather talk to an american robot or a guy in india. the problem is they are just jobs that american robots won't do. >> snowden joins twitter. >> the first time i have seen you smile that big in a longtime. >> in the eight years i have done this show. >> jessica you think snowden should come back and stand trial. do you want to try it under the espionage act? he can't defend himself saying
whether he returns or not is up to him. he certainly can stay in russia, apparently under putin's protection, for the rest of his life if that's what he chooses. but if he's serious about engaging in the debate, then he could take the opportunity to come back and have that debate. but that's his decision. >> she seems to be trying to walk a line here. you know, there's the people who think snowden is a traitor. there's the people who say he's a freedom fighter. he's a patriot. she seems to be kind of like in the middle a little bit. >> it's an interesting statement because what she's saying is theoretically non-controversial. everyone gets to make a defense. >> sure. >> but it's very rare to see political leaders at the highest levels making an overture in the direction of snowden. this tends to be one issue where democrats and republicans really strongly agree on including the white house, that what he did was very, very wrong. >> christina? >> i just think it's all in the context of her running for president. and when you have republicans like rand paul and like that sort of paul coalition that are going to be some sort of force
sudden americans are very, very concerned. >> you are seeing both sides of the issue. you think it is okay for the nsa to collect data. >> and it is okay for google to collect data. i don't really care. >> but you actual lie think snowden -- you think he should be in prison for it? >> yes, absolutely. >> and who could disagree with you? perhaps the man to your right. >> i don't even know where to start with this story. use of the phrase man up is so obviously problematic. >> actually where are the feminists on this? where are they to attack john kerry. >> they are taking a lunch. i want to take what kerry says and contrast it with reality. come back here and stand in our system of justice and make a case with what is wrong with the nsa surveillance programs. as i'm sure the secretary of state well knows that is something snowden wouldn't be able to do. the judges ruled that in
wish to blow us up, all of a sudden americans are very, very concerned. >> you are seeing both sides of the issue. you think it is okay for the nsa to collect data. >> and it is okay for google to collect data. i don't really care. >> but you actual lie think snowden -- you think he should be in prison for it? >> yes, absolutely. >> and who could disagree with you? perhaps the man to your right. >> i don't even know where to start with this story. use of the phrase man up is so obviously problematic. >> actually where are the feminists on this? where are they to attack john kerry. >> they are taking a lunch. i want to take what kerry says and contrast it with reality. come back here and stand in our system of justice and make a case with what is wrong with the nsa surveillance programs. as i'm sure the secretary of state well knows that is something snowden wouldn't be able to do. the judges ruled that in
allowed cameras in for the first time, television network covered it and people got a better understanding of why they're doing this, why they're tapping to protect the american public. so you can see it on both sides. >> alan, you had a different take on this. you don't think snowden was the winner, is that right? >> no, i don't think he was a winner. in order to be a civil disobedient, you had to do the least amount of harm necessary to make your point. he released lots of information about us surveilling foreign leaders. that's not illegal. we're entitled to do that outside the country and yet he revealed that. he could have easily gone to congress, he could have simply revealed the existence of the program without revealing the content and, finally, if you're going to be a civil disobedient, stand up and take the consequences. don't run to russia where they can steal more secrets and hurt the national security of the united states. he's a deeply, deeply flawed hero if he's a hero at all. >> you think the winner is the
religion, that the state should not be sanctioning this and they perceive themselves as losers in this. they perceive themselves as people who have voted as they did -- the majority of people did in california against gay marriage and they've now had it imposed on them by the courts. so on the loser's side of it, those people are going to classify themselves clearly as losers. all right. let's move on to another hot topic of the year. the nsa leak. paul, who do you think the winner was in the nsa leak? >> well, that's a great question because, you know, snowden, who has been vilified widely because he stole so much intelligence information from the united states will claim vindication here because here's this federal court decision that came obviously, seemed to indicate that he had released and exposed a very, very dangerous level of surveillance by the u.s. government. on the other hand, the nsa
on that idea. >> we don't think snowden deserves amnesty. we believe he should come back and have his day in court. >> reporter: patrick layhe, democrat of vermont told nbc news this weekend, his panel will hold hearings on nsa reform early in the new year. >> thank you. susan rice was asked about the talking point she used after the deadly attack on the consulate and now the backlash it created. >> i don't have time to think about a false controversy. in the midst of the swirl of things like talking points, the administration has been working very, very hard across the globe to review our security of our embassies and our facilities. that is what we ought to be focused on. >> the united nations has approved a request for new diplomatic status for deafany cobra hanny who was arrested and
conversation. there are a lot of other reasons, too, i think the pope is a very significant figure, but there's no doubt edward snowden was significant. >> why didn't we have a debate on the steps the government was taking in the name of our security? >> we should have that debate, but i don't think snowden is a hero by far. i think he's caused a lot of damage to national security. who is he, 30 years old, a contractor, to decide that he discloses the strongest secrets in the u.s. government? so my view, yeah, there should be a debate. it should be a debate in the congress. i think it's legitimate, for instance, to have this foreign intelligence court that decides who gets kind of spied upon. but let me also put another word in. i'm not going to be very popular. i was a policymaker for a while. what our intelligence community and the nsa gives policymakers is very useful for the national security of the united states.
is not also a crucial conversation. there are a lot of other reasons, too, i think the pope is a very significant figure, but there's no doubt edward snowden was significant. >> why didn't we have a debate on the steps the government was taking in the name of our security? >> we should have that debate, but i don't think snowden is a hero by far. i think he's caused a lot of damage to national security. who is he, 30 years old, a contractor, to decide that he discloses the strongest secrets in the u.s. government? so my view, yeah, there should be a debate. it should be a debate in the congress. i think it's legitimate, for instance, to have this foreign intelligence court that decides who gets kind of spied upon. but let me also put another word in. i'm not going to be very popular. i was a policymaker for a while. what our intelligence community and the nsa gives policymakers is very useful for the national