you this, injune 2021 g do personally oppose free meals for poorer schoolchildren during the summer holidays? 1 poorer schoolchildren during the summer holidays?— poorer schoolchildren during the summer holidays? poorer schoolchildren during the summer holida s? �* , ., summer holidays? i can't remember at what oint summer holidays? i can't remember at what point we — summer holidays? i can't remember at what point we funded _ summer holidays? i can't remember at what point we funded the _ summer holidays? i can't remember at what point we funded the holiday - what point we funded the holiday activity _ what point we funded the holiday activity and food programme because as we _ activity and food programme because as we were _ activity and food programme because as we were coming out of the pandemic— as we were coming out of the pandemic and surprisingly things that were temporary were being removed — that were temporary were being removed more generally. whether it was furlough or support the self—employed. we spent almost £400 biiiion— self—employed. we spent almost £400 billion borrowed £400 billion, it was one — billion borrowed £400 billion, it was one of the most comprehensive support— was one of the most comprehensive support package is put in place anywhere in the world and it did disproportionately benefit the most vulnerable and poverty fell during this period as a result. it's clear thats— this period as a result. it's clear that's not— this period as a result. it's clear that's not sustainable forever so as the pandemic ended and we returned to more _ the pandemic ended and we returned to more normal life it's reasonable returned _ to more normal life it's reasonable returned to — to more normal life it's reasonable returned to a more normal state that actually _ returned to a more normal state that actually when it came to the situation _ actually when it came to the situation of free school meals even though _ situation of free school meals even though the pandemic support ended more permanent extra support was put in place _ more permanent extra support was put in place so — more permanent extra support was put in place so for provision of meals and activities today is greater and more _ and activities today is greater and more generously funded than it was before _ more generously funded than it was before the _ more generously funded than it was before the pandemic. and the increase — before the pandemic. and the increase in the healthy start vouchers _ increase in the healthy start vouchers which are vouchers which are given — vouchers which are vouchers which are given to— vouchers which are vouchers which are given to expectant only mothers for them _ are given to expectant only mothers for them to— are given to expectant only mothers for them to use on fresh fruit and milk— for them to use on fresh fruit and milk and — for them to use on fresh fruit and milk and things like that when they have new_ milk and things like that when they have new babies. the value of those vouchers _ have new babies. the value of those vouchers was also increased. canl vouchers was also increased. can i 'ust vouchers was also increased. can i just clarify — vouchers was also increased. can i just clarify this _ vouchers was also increased. can i just clarify this matter, _ vouchers was also increased. can i just clarify this matter, you - vouchers was also increased. can i just clarify this matter, you told i just clarify this matter, you told mr keith you never said anything along the lines of good working people pay for their children to eat and don't want freeloaders. do you recall a meeting at which anybody in the government expressed such a sentiment?— the government expressed such a sentiment? trio. so it was never said, sentiment? no. so it was never said, ou sentiment? no. so it was never said, you don't recall it ever being said by anybody in the uk government? no. if anybody had expressed such a sentiment about the parents of poorer schoolchildren, that would be reprehensible thing to say in the circumstances of a pandemic that has caused so much economic turmoil. it's precisely because i knew the pandemic— it's precisely because i knew the pandemic was causing particular turmoil— pandemic was causing particular turmoil for those who are on the lowest _ turmoil for those who are on the lowest incomes that i was support deliberately and specifically helps them the most and benefited them the most _ them the most and benefited them the most i_ them the most and benefited them the most. i thought it was the right thing _ most. i thought it was the right thing to— most. i thought it was the right thing to do and the judge —— the support— thing to do and the judge —— the support was in place to help the most _ support was in place to help the most vulnerable. of course people would _ most vulnerable. of course people would always likely to do more to do things— would always likely to do more to do things differently but in the round ithink— things differently but in the round i think it's — things differently but in the round i think it's hard to argue with the proposition that the support we put in place _ proposition that the support we put in place was incredibly comprehensive and in terms of its scale _ comprehensive and in terms of its scale generous by international standards and the evidence is clear it disproportionately benefited those — it disproportionately benefited those on the lowest incomes. | it disproportionately benefited those on the lowest incomes. i am sure that will _ those on the lowest incomes. i am sure that will be _ those on the lowest incomes. ian sure that will be explored in the future. thank you. mr sure that will be explored in the future. thank you.— sure that will be explored in the future. thank you. mr friedman is 'ust future. thank you. mr friedman is just behind _ future. thank you. mr friedman is just behind due _ future. thank you. mr friedman is just behind due to _ future. thank you. mr friedman is just behind due to your _ future. thank you. mr friedman is just behind due to your right - future. thank you. mr friedman is just behind due to your right but l future. thank you. mr friedman is just behind due to your right but if you make — just behind due to your right but if you make sure _ just behind due to your right but if you make sure you _ just behind due to your right but if you make sure you keep— just behind due to your right but if you make sure you keep your- just behind due to your right but ifi you make sure you keep your voice into the _ you make sure you keep your voice into the microphone. _ you make sure you keep your voice into the microphone. thank- you make sure you keep your voice into the microphone. thank you. i you make sure you keep your voice into the microphone. thank you. [i into the microphone. thank you. i act into the microphone. thank you. act for four national disabled people's organisations and we also want to ask you about those proposed regulations in the winter of 2020 to prevent care workers moving between care homes and other placements to stop the spread of the virus. the issueis stop the spread of the virus. the issue is also dealt with in the statement of head and weekly, then ministerfor statement of head and weekly, then minister for social care and brought back into that role by us prime minister and we need not go to it directly but for the record it's in 0 27... ministerweekly directly but for the record it's in 0 27... minister weekly deals q 27... minister weekly deals with the problem that these proposals sought to fix the significant number of people worked in more than one care setting, a balance was needed between stopping that happening and protecting people in a profession where staff worked part—time, on zero—hours contract and the majority of that work force were women and working for often low levels of pay. we have heard your answers to miss morris kings council was being questioned for the bereaved families including that you are not directly involved in these decisions so there is no criticism on that. but maybe just put the position of the minister for social care to you and get your reflections on it. first she advocated for a furlough scheme and then a compensation scheme for workers who under these regulations were going to be mandated effectively not to work. that is in paragraphs 236 of a statement and in essence cutting it short hmc considered these positions but did not approve either furlough or some further compensation scheme and instead it proposed a financial scheme to increase the supply of care workers. so looking back at the situation now and of course thinking forward as prime minister, why reject any kind of furlough scheme orany reject any kind of furlough scheme or any compensation fund and instead prepare —— prefer... which didn't target the specific target of staff movement. i target the specific target of staff movement-— target the specific target of staff movement. . ., , .. ., movement. i am not sure i can add much to my — movement. i am not sure i can add much to my previous _ movement. i am not sure i can add much to my previous evidence. - movement. i am not sure i can add much to my previous evidence. i i much to my previous evidence. i wasn't _ much to my previous evidence. i wasn't directly involved in these conversations, i'm not familiar with the various— conversations, i'm not familiar with the various arguments that were being _ the various arguments that were being deliberated and policy discussions so it's very hard for me to speculate — discussions so it's very hard for me to speculate or comment beyond what i've to speculate or comment beyond what we already _ to speculate or comment beyond what i've already said in my review of the materials three years later. let me 'ust the materials three years later. let me just try — the materials three years later. let me just try and help you, we know there was an alternative workplace capacity fund and it was for £120 million and it came in from january 2022 supply additional labour but no payment to not work and ultimately the evidence is there, no regulations introduced to stop movement between homes under the settings so ensured some funding to do with in the staffing but no additionalfunding to do with in the staffing but no additional funding to support not working and no regulations happened. instead there was just voluntary guidance to employers. from the treasury point of view and i'm asking you to reflect on it now and assist the chair, was this voluntary approach a safe enough approach to the movement of staff between care jobs when it was known there was a continuing risk they could not afford to do otherwise? again, i am not familiar— afford to do otherwise? again, i am not familiar with _ afford to do otherwise? again, i am not familiar with all _ afford to do otherwise? again, i am not familiar with all the _ afford to do otherwise? again, i am not familiar with all the policy - not familiar with all the policy debates— not familiar with all the policy debates so i can't sit here and make a pronouncement on what the right policy— a pronouncement on what the right policy would have been. i can tell you that — policy would have been. i can tell you that across all the different health — you that across all the different health and public services interventions that we made £150 billion— interventions that we made £150 billion was spent. you've heard evidence — billion was spent. you've heard evidence from the chief executive of the nhs _ evidence from the chief executive of the nhs that the government did provide _ the nhs that the government did provide the nhs with the emergency funds needed. i've talked about the billions _ funds needed. i've talked about the billions provided to local authorities who are responsible for social— authorities who are responsible for social care — authorities who are responsible for social care as well. if you are saying — social care as well. if you are saying how some of that money was used to— saying how some of that money was used to have been better prioritised, again i am not familiar with the _ prioritised, again i am not familiar with the specific policy proposal and why— with the specific policy proposal and why it was deemed to be ineffective at the time and why it was not — ineffective at the time and why it was not supported by key system partners — was not supported by key system partners notjust was not supported by key system partners not just the treasury but more _ partners not just the treasury but more broadly. i can't sit here and speculate — more broadly. i can't sit here and speculate on what the right answer is for— speculate on what the right answer is for something i was not involved in. ~ ., . , , is for something i was not involved in. ~ ., , ., is for something i was not involved in. mr thomas is right over by that will -- role- _ in. mr thomas is right over by that will -- role. leslie _ in. mr thomas is right over by that will -- role. leslie thomas - in. mr thomas is right over by that will -- role. leslie thomas and - in. mr thomas is right over by that will -- role. leslie thomas and i l in. mr thomas is right over by that l will -- role. leslie thomas and i am reresent will -- role. leslie thomas and i am represent the _ will -- role. leslie thomas and i am represent the federation _ will -- role. leslie thomas and i am represent the federation of - will -- role. leslie thomas and i am represent the federation of ethnic l represent the federation of ethnic minority healthcare organisations. minority healthca re organisations. those minority healthcare organisations. those were the people we were clapping for on thursday evenings at 8pm. some context for you. the chief scientific adviser to patrick vallance told this inquiry that it was entirely foreseeable that they would be disparities in health, outcomes during the pandemic because of historically known structural inequalities. i have three short questions for you. one, with your eat out to help out scheme specifically please telus what were the specific measures or considerations in its design to address the vulnerabilities of ethnic minority workers in the hospitality sectors and other sectors? figs hospitality sectors and other sectors? �* , hospitality sectors and other sectors? a ., . ., ., sectors? as i touched on earlier, it was precisely _ sectors? as i touched on earlier, it was precisely because _ sectors? as i touched on earlier, it was precisely because the - sectors? as i touched on earlier, it was precisely because the millions| was precisely because the millions of people — was precisely because the millions of people who worked in that industry— of people who worked in that industry were disproportionately from _ industry were disproportionately from vulnerable groups, lower paid people _ from vulnerable groups, lower paid people moving, that i thought as a matter— people moving, that i thought as a matter of— people moving, that i thought as a matter of socialjustice those jobs are incredibly important to focus on saving _ are incredibly important to focus on saving because all of the evidence we were _ saving because all of the evidence we were seeing and talking to businesses was there was a real fear that they— businesses was there was a real fear that they wouldn't be able to protect — that they wouldn't be able to protect those jobs and people would have to _ protect those jobs and people would have to be _ protect those jobs and people would have to be let go.— have to be let go. forgive me to -- the cutting — have to be let go. forgive me to -- the cutting across _ have to be let go. forgive me to -- the cutting across you _ have to be let go. forgive me to -- the cutting across you and - have to be let go. forgive me to -- the cutting across you and i - have to be let go. forgive me to -- the cutting across you and i know. the cutting across you and i know you would not be trying to talk me down on the clock, my question was very specific, what with the specific measures or considerations in its design to address the vulnerabilities of ethnic minority workers in the hospitality sector? just before you answer, mr thomas i think— just before you answer, mr thomas i think that _ just before you answer, mr thomas i think that comment _ just before you answer, mr thomas i think that comment was _ just before you answer, mr thomas ii think that comment was inappropriate so please _ think that comment was inappropriate so please just— think that comment was inappropriate so please just answer— think that comment was inappropriate so please just answer the _ think that comment was inappropriate so please just answer the question . so please just answer the question prime _ so please just answer the question prime minister— so please just answer the question prime ministerand _ so please just answer the question prime minister and ignore - so please just answer the question prime minister and ignore the - prime minister and ignore the reference _ prime minister and ignore the reference to _ prime minister and ignore the reference to talking _ prime minister and ignore the reference to talking mr- prime minister and ignore the i reference to talking mr thomas prime minister and ignore the - reference to talking mr thomas out. that would — reference to talking mr thomas out. that would be — reference to talking mr thomas out. that would be better— reference to talking mr thomas out. that would be better addressed - reference to talking mr thomas out. that would be better addressed in. that would be better addressed in the government's guidance to the sector— the government's guidance to the sector which i referred to earlier which _ sector which i referred to earlier which was — sector which i referred to earlier which was considerable, 55 pages long. _ which was considerable, 55 pages long. and — which was considerable, 55 pages long, and supplemented by the 100 pages _ long, and supplemented by the 100 pages of— long, and supplemented by the 100 pages of guidance issued by local industry— pages of guidance issued by local industry trade association which had very detailed guidance that i understand was put together with advice _ understand was put together with advice from public health england who are _ advice from public health england who are the experts on this about how to _ who are the experts on this about how to make sure that workforces of all ethnicities were protected at work— all ethnicities were protected at work and — all ethnicities were protected at work and the measures such as screens— work and the measures such as screens and changing shift patterns and practical things i can recall, but that— and practical things i can recall, but that is— and practical things i can recall, but that is how that consideration was properly taken care of not just in the _ was properly taken care of not just in the hospitality industry but across — in the hospitality industry but across the entire economy. we can auree across the entire economy. we can a . ree this across the entire economy. we can agree this in _ across the entire economy. we can agree this in hindsight, _ across the entire economy. we can agree this in hindsight, your- across the entire economy. we can agree this in hindsight, your eat i agree this in hindsight, your eat out to help out scheme further exacerbated structural inequalities by placing low—paid workers such as those who represent back into an increased risk of infection. we can agree that cantwe? trio. increased risk of infection. we can agree that c