and labour's bridget phillipson — who'll be education secretary in less than a fortnight if the polls are right. 11 days to go, are you tired, exhausted, relieved it is nearly over? sonic regardless the sun has come out. i got to wear shorts the other day, small mercies in elections. but i like electioneering, so i don't mind. are you hoping to get more votes with the shorts? i’m you hoping to get more votes with the shorts?— you hoping to get more votes with the shorts? �* . . ., the shorts? i'm afraid i might have ut some the shorts? i'm afraid i might have put some peeple — the shorts? i'm afraid i might have put some people off. _ the shorts? i'm afraid i might have put some people off. the - the shorts? i'm afraid i might have put some people off. the sun - the shorts? i'm afraid i might have put some people off. the sun is i put some people off. the sun is shinin: put some people off. the sun is shining but _ put some people off. the sun is shining but nothing _ put some people off. the sun is shining but nothing is _ put some people off. the sun is shining but nothing is settled i put some people off. the sun is i shining but nothing is settled and if people want to change they have to go for it. if people want to change they have to go for it— to go for it. one minute in and we have not to go for it. one minute in and we have got a — to go for it. one minute in and we have got a slogan _ to go for it. one minute in and we have got a slogan already. - remember, this election is not just about the contest between the big two. sirjohn curtice with his polling calclator will keep us right. all these mega polls said conservative support is falling most heavily in constituencies the party is defending, compounding its losses. and our team at the desk for the next hour this week, labour's peter mandelson. the conservatives' former chancellor, foreign secretary and defence secretary, philip hammond, and broadcaster susanna reid. morning, morning — not long now. let's start with the news, as we always do. the sunday times splash on a fourth conservative allegedly being looked into by the gambling commission over election bets. they also have the royal selfie with taylor swift. the mail on sunday report president zelensky said nigel farage has been infected with the virus of putin. on the sunday mirror today — "the rishi get richer". whilst some economists have told the observer labour won't get the growth they want without closer eu ties. there's scotland's first minister john swinney on the sunday mail — amid claims the snp have been using taxpayerfunded stamps for campaigning. and the bbc news website, we've been passed a recording of a tory candidate and aide to the home secretary saying the rwanda policy is "crap". a busy news morning. welcome to all of you this morning. philip hammond, do you ever wonder if your party is trying to sabotage its own campaign? it's a difficult campaign to run because it's against the backdrop of the borisjohnson period in government, the liz truss to boggle. my government, the liz truss to boggle. my own personal view is that many voters made up their mind back in 2021-22. -- the liz voters made up their mind back in 2021—22. —— the liz truss debacle. so i think rishi sunak and jeremy hunt have done a credible job so i think rishi sunak and jeremy hunt have done a crediblejob in government, but they are unfortunately being held to account for the mistakes and the errors that were made earlier on in this period of government. you were made earlier on in this period of government-— of government. you back to rishi sunak when _ of government. you back to rishi sunak when it _ of government. you back to rishi sunak when it came _ of government. you back to rishi sunak when it came to _ of government. you back to rishi sunak when it came to choosing l of government. you back to rishi i sunak when it came to choosing the next leader, but a lot of your colleagues say he has made things worse, the way the campaign has been handled might suggest to viewers thatis handled might suggest to viewers that is true? i handled might suggest to viewers that is true?— that is true? i backed rishi sunak because the _ that is true? i backed rishi sunak because the alternative _ that is true? i backed rishi sunak because the alternative was - that is true? i backed rishi sunak because the alternative was liz i because the alternative was liz truss, i think i have been vindicated on that. but truss, i thinki have been vindicated on that. but they were meant to be _ vindicated on that. but they were meant to be the _ vindicated on that. but they were meant to be the ones _ vindicated on that. but they were meant to be the ones that - vindicated on that. but they were meant to be the ones that had i vindicated on that. but they were meant to be the ones that had a | vindicated on that. but they were - meant to be the ones that had a plan for the election because they called it when other people didn't know. i don't personally understand why we are having an election injuly, i would have liked to have seen it later in the year. i'm pretty confident that we will see one or two interest rate cuts between now and november, and i would have preferred the party to have been fighting this election on the basis of interest rates falling. and probably on the basis of nigel farage having disappeared to the us to play games with candidate trump. that would have been a better backdrop from my point of view. we have heard interesting messages coming out of the labour campaign, shifting to telling people this is not in the bag, do you believe the polls? not in the bag, do you believe the olls? ., ., ., ., polls? not for one moment. especially — polls? not for one moment. especially these _ polls? not for one moment. especially these new - especially these new pseudoscientific mrp polls, essentially looking through a rear view mirror and trying to anticipate how people are going to make up their_ how people are going to make up their minds into macca weeks or however— their minds into macca weeks or however long it is, it seems like an eternity, _ however long it is, it seems like an eternity, and — however long it is, it seems like an eternity, and the fact is that many people _ eternity, and the fact is that many pennie are — eternity, and the fact is that many people are uncertain. some are undersized to do, some are doubtful, others _ undersized to do, some are doubtful, others are _ undersized to do, some are doubtful, others are leaning one way or another, _ others are leaning one way or another, but finally making up their mind _ another, but finally making up their mind -- _ another, but finally making up their mind. —— some are undecided. polls are dangerous because they generate are dangerous because they generate a sense _ are dangerous because they generate a sense of— are dangerous because they generate a sense of complacency that it is in the bank _ a sense of complacency that it is in the bank it— a sense of complacency that it is in the bank. it isn't. as bridget phillipson was saying, if people want _ phillipson was saying, if people want change in the country they are going _ want change in the country they are going to _ want change in the country they are going to have to go and vote for it. is going to have to go and vote for it. is that _ going to have to go and vote for it. is that really the case? we've had philip hammond saying the die was cast ages ago. isn't this just classic tactics from labour to get the boat out? i classic tactics from labour to get the beat out?— the boat out? i don't think it's a tactic, i the boat out? i don't think it's a tactic. i think — the boat out? i don't think it's a tactic, | think it's _ the boat out? i don't think it's a tactic, i think it's an _ the boat out? i don't think it's a l tactic, i think it's an observation, that if_ tactic, i think it's an observation, that if people do not go out and actually— that if people do not go out and actually vote, you will not get the change _ actually vote, you will not get the change of — actually vote, you will not get the change of government we need after 14 years. _ change of government we need after 14 years, this has gone on. if you take _ 14 years, this has gone on. if you take the — 14 years, this has gone on. if you take the batting story today, the reason _ take the batting story today, the reason you've got all of this going on is _ reason you've got all of this going on is because they have been in power— on is because they have been in power for— on is because they have been in power for too long. they've been in power— power for too long. they've been in power for— power for too long. they've been in power for too long. they've been in power for too long. they've been in power for too long for a good spell, without _ power for too long for a good spell, without a _ power for too long for a good spell, without a proper opposition under jeremy— without a proper opposition under jeremy corbyn. now they do face an effective _ jeremy corbyn. now they do face an effective alternative, an opposition, and people just look at the brand — opposition, and people just look at the brand of the conservatives and say they— the brand of the conservatives and say they have absolutely no interest in taking _ say they have absolutely no interest in taking norms, laws, rules, they think— in taking norms, laws, rules, they think they— in taking norms, laws, rules, they think they can do whatever they like. _ think they can do whatever they like. it— think they can do whatever they like. it is— think they can do whatever they like, it is time to go.— like, it is time to go. susanna, what has _ like, it is time to go. susanna, what has been _ like, it is time to go. susanna, what has been standing - like, it is time to go. susanna, what has been standing out. like, it is time to go. susanna, j what has been standing out for like, it is time to go. susanna, - what has been standing out for your viewers? every day you have been covering this election. we've heard about the big picture politics, but theissues about the big picture politics, but the issues are really important? hugely important. there is a huge number— hugely important. there is a huge number of— hugely important. there is a huge number of people _ hugely important. there is a huge number of people that _ hugely important. there is a huge number of people that are - hugely important. there is a huge i number of people that are undecided or unconvinced, _ number of people that are undecided or unconvinced, or, _ number of people that are undecided or unconvinced, or, in— number of people that are undecided or unconvinced, or, in some - number of people that are undecided or unconvinced, or, in some cases, l or unconvinced, or, in some cases, uninspired — or unconvinced, or, in some cases, uninspired to — or unconvinced, or, in some cases, uninspired to go _ or unconvinced, or, in some cases, uninspired to go and _ or unconvinced, or, in some cases, uninspired to go and vote. - or unconvinced, or, in some cases, uninspired to go and vote. i - or unconvinced, or, in some cases, uninspired to go and vote. i think. uninspired to go and vote. i think that is— uninspired to go and vote. i think that is a — uninspired to go and vote. i think that is a huge _ uninspired to go and vote. i think that is a huge problem. - uninspired to go and vote. i think that is a huge problem. i- uninspired to go and vote. i think that is a huge problem. i think. that is a huge problem. i think people — that is a huge problem. i think people are _ that is a huge problem. i think people are continuously- that is a huge problem. i think. people are continuously worried about— people are continuously worried about the — people are continuously worried about the cost _ people are continuously worried about the cost of— people are continuously worried about the cost of living, - people are continuously worried about the cost of living, about l about the cost of living, about massive — about the cost of living, about massive nhs— about the cost of living, about massive nhs waiting - about the cost of living, about massive nhs waiting lists, - about the cost of living, about i massive nhs waiting lists, about crime, _ massive nhs waiting lists, about crime, about— massive nhs waiting lists, about crime, about immigration. - massive nhs waiting lists, about crime, about immigration. i- massive nhs waiting lists, about| crime, about immigration. i think they— crime, about immigration. i think they look— crime, about immigration. i think they took at— crime, about immigration. i think they look at what the _ they look at what the politicians are saying — they look at what the politicians are saying and _ they look at what the politicians are saying and they— they look at what the politicians are saying and they are - they look at what the politicians are saying and they are just - they look at what the politicians are saying and they are just not| are saying and they are just not sure _ are saying and they are just not sure whether _ are saying and they are just not sure whether they— are saying and they are just not sure whether they are - are saying and they are just not sure whether they are being - are saying and they are just not - sure whether they are being honest, transparent— sure whether they are being honest, transparent about _ sure whether they are being honest, transparent about how— sure whether they are being honest, transparent about how those - sure whether they are being honest, transparent about how those plans l transparent about how those plans are going — transparent about how those plans are going to— transparent about how those plans are going to he_ transparent about how those plans are going to be paid _ transparent about how those plans are going to be paid for. _ transparent about how those plans are going to be paid for. find - transparent about how those plans are going to be paid for.— are going to be paid for. and that a- lies are going to be paid for. and that a - lies to are going to be paid for. and that applies to all _ are going to be paid for. and that applies to all of _ are going to be paid for. and that applies to all of them _ are going to be paid for. and that applies to all of them in - are going to be paid for. and that l applies to all of them in your view? there's a sense that after 14 years of the _ there's a sense that after 14 years of the conservatives _ there's a sense that after 14 years of the conservatives being - there's a sense that after 14 years of the conservatives being in - of the conservatives being in government. _ of the conservatives being in government, nothing - of the conservatives being in government, nothing worksl of the conservatives being in - government, nothing works among of the conservatives being in _ government, nothing works among some people. _ government, nothing works among some people. things _ government, nothing works among some people. things are — government, nothing works among some people, things are broken. _ government, nothing works among some people, things are broken. it's _ people, things are broken. it's remarkable _ people, things are broken. it's remarkable that _ people, things are broken. it's remarkable that we _ people, things are broken. it's remarkable that we hear - people, things are broken. it's remarkable that we hear from | people, things are broken. it's - remarkable that we hear from lord hammond. — remarkable that we hear from lord hammond. who _ remarkable that we hear from lord hammond, who last— remarkable that we hear from lord hammond, who last time - remarkable that we hear from lord hammond, who last time i- remarkable that we hear from lord| hammond, who last time i checked remarkable that we hear from lord - hammond, who last time i checked was a conservative, — hammond, who last time i checked was a conservative, who— hammond, who last time i checked was a conservative, who is— hammond, who last time i checked was a conservative, who is critical— hammond, who last time i checked was a conservative, who is critical of- a conservative, who is critical of prime _ a conservative, who is critical of prime ministers— a conservative, who is critical of prime ministers of— a conservative, who is critical of prime ministers of the - a conservative, who is critical of prime ministers of the same - a conservative, who is critical of. prime ministers of the same party over the _ prime ministers of the same party over the last — prime ministers of the same party over the last 14— prime ministers of the same party over the last 14 years. _ prime ministers of the same party over the last 14 years. when - prime ministers of the same party over the last 14 years. when it - over the last 14 years. when it comes— over the last 14 years. when it comes to _ over the last 14 years. when it comes to the _ over the last 14 years. when it comes to the opposition, - over the last 14 years. when itj comes to the opposition, huge over the last 14 years. when it - comes to the opposition, huge things need to— comes to the opposition, huge things need to change _ comes to the opposition, huge things need to change. and _ comes to the opposition, huge things need to change. and they _ comes to the opposition, huge things need to change. and they are - comes to the opposition, huge things need to change. and they are just - need to change. and they are just not sure _ need to change. and they are just not sure those _ need to change. and they are just not sure those things _ need to change. and they are just not sure those things are - need to change. and they are just not sure those things are going i need to change. and they are just not sure those things are going to change. _ not sure those things are going to change. that— not sure those things are going to change, that things _ not sure those things are going to change, that things are _ not sure those things are going to change, that things are going - not sure those things are going to change, that things are going to l change, that things are going to improve, — change, that things are going to improve, because _ change, that things are going to improve, because where - change, that things are going to improve, because where is - change, that things are going to improve, because where is the i change, that things are going to - improve, because where is the money for it? _ improve, because where is the money for it? . , improve, because where is the money for it? ., , ., ., , for it? that is one of the things we will aet for it? that is one of the things we will get into _ for it? that is one of the things we will get into later. _ for it? that is one of the things we will get into later. thank— for it? that is one of the things we will get into later. thank you - for it? that is one of the things we will get into later. thank you for i will get into later. thank you for now. so, to our first interview then. months ago the prime minister chose stop the boats as his big slogan — the government's plan to send people arriving in the uk without permission to east africa was stuck at the top of the political agenda. but the boats haven't stopped. and only two migrants have gone to rwanda — and they've gone voluntarily. the home secretary's here. now, one of your aids, whosejob it has been for two years to help you get the plan to send migrants to rwanda fully enacted was recorded giving this opinion about the scheme. let's listen to what he had to say. so the policy is crap, according to your own team? i so the policy is crap, according to your own team?— so the policy is