you've got the plug—in part, that's a big part of podcasting. y°u've 9°t the plug-in part, that's a big part of podcasting. i’m you've got the plug-in part, that's a big part of podcasting.— a big part of podcasting. i'm also twice a week- — a big part of podcasting. i'm also twice a week. and _ a big part of podcasting. i'm also twice a week. and then - a big part of podcasting. i'm also twice a week. and then riley - a big part of podcasting. i'm also i twice a week. and then riley smith from the telegraph. _ twice a week. and then riley smith from the telegraph. i _ twice a week. and then riley smith from the telegraph. i do _ from the telegraph. i do occasionally _ from the telegraph. i do occasionally appear - from the telegraph. i do occasionally appear on l from the telegraph. i do l occasionally appear on the from the telegraph. i do occasionally appear on the telegraph on the _ occasionally appear on the telegraph on the daily— occasionally appear on the telegraph on the daily t~ — occasionally appear on the telegraph on the daily 1— on the daily t. you've got the name of our on the daily t. you've got the name of your podcast. — on the daily t. you've got the name of your podcast, that's _ on the daily t. you've got the name of your podcast, that's the - on the daily t. you've got the name of your podcast, that's the basic - of your podcast, that's the basic thing. but, the last episode of newscast with me, chris and laura in the incredibly hot spin room in nottingham after the bbc one prime ministerial debate. now that you've had a chance to sleep on that moment of momentous television, what do you think? i of momentous television, what do you think? ., ., , ,, ., ~ think? i thought it was sunak unleashed. _ think? i thought it was sunak unleashed. he _ think? i thought it was sunak unleashed. he found - think? i thought it was sunak unleashed. he found his - think? i thought it was sunak i unleashed. he found his mojo, think? i thought it was sunak - unleashed. he found his mojo, only five weeks too late possibly more than a year too late. i've seen so many tories that think why could he have not bought that passion to the campaign trail before now? starmer, a lot more cautious as expected. for me, with one thing that was interesting i was live blogging it for the ft last night, sol interesting i was live blogging it for the ft last night, so i had audio but it wasn't watching it as i was typing. and it really felt to me like rishi sunak won the debate on the substance. i was surprised when i saw the yugo of snap poll that described it is absolutely neck and neck. other politicians as to what's happening afterwards, those who were critical of sunak, they said it was partially his manner, it was arrogant schoolboy, he was smarmy, his interrupting in his demeanour was off—putting. it was interesting that i hadn't picked that up just by listening to it not watching it. the campaigning had david cameron pumped up campaigning had david cameron pumped up and _ campaigning had david cameron pumped up and let— campaigning had david cameron pumped up and let lively the final week of the campaign in 2015i remember going toa the campaign in 2015i remember going to a random _ the campaign in 2015i remember going to a random village hall in dorset on the _ to a random village hall in dorset on the last— to a random village hall in dorset on the last sunday of the campaign which _ on the last sunday of the campaign which actually was where patty ashdown lift, in this tiny village hall there's about 12 activists, may be slightly— hall there's about 12 activists, may be slightly more and in the room, david _ be slightly more and in the room, david cameron was shouting like a madman — david cameron was shouting like a madman. so david cameron was shouting like a madman. , , , ., . madman. so pumped up and excited. that's what gets _ madman. so pumped up and excited. that's what gets me _ madman. so pumped up and excited. that's what gets me fired _ madman. so pumped up and excited. that's what gets me fired up, - madman. so pumped up and excited. that's what gets me fired up, small l that's what gets me fired up, small business. ., ., , ., business. that was, and in the room ou 'ust business. that was, and in the room you just felt. — business. that was, and in the room you just felt. it _ business. that was, and in the room you just felt, it just _ business. that was, and in the room you just felt, it just feels _ business. that was, and in the room you just felt, itjust feels like - business. that was, and in the room you just felt, itjust feels like he - you just felt, it just feels like he has lost — you just felt, it just feels like he has lost the plot. this is the moment, _ has lost the plot. this is the moment, this is amazing. it was the next day— moment, this is amazing. it was the next day he — moment, this is amazing. it was the next day he did the proper pumped up blood _ next day he did the proper pumped up blood he _ next day he did the proper pumped up blood he lively speech that was the rehearsal,... blood he lively speech that was the rehearsal.---_ rehearsal, . .. that's what people said, the campaign _ rehearsal, . .. that's what people said, the campaign is _ rehearsal, . .. that's what people said, the campaign is really - rehearsal, . .. that's what people | said, the campaign is really dull, david cameron likes to technocratic and boring. just lead up and try to get not boring and not technocratic. he thought it was a jujitsu move on the media, — he thought it was a jujitsu move on the media, he _ he thought it was a jujitsu move on the media, he thought _ he thought it was a jujitsu move on the media, he thought he - he thought it was a jujitsu move on the media, he thought he was - he thought it was a jujitsu move oni the media, he thought he was being objective and — the media, he thought he was being objective and this _ the media, he thought he was being objective and this was _ the media, he thought he was being objective and this was narrative - objective and this was narrative running. it— objective and this was narrative running, it looks _ objective and this was narrative running, it looksjust_ objective and this was narrative running, it looksjust lean- objective and this was narrative running, it looksjust lean intoi objective and this was narrative i running, it looksjust lean into it i'll running, it looksjust lean into it i'tt take — running, it looksjust lean into it i'tt take off— running, it looksjust lean into it i'tt take off my— running, it looksjust lean into it i'll take off myjacket _ running, it looksjust lean into it i'll take off myjacket and - running, it looksjust lean into it i'll take off myjacket and rolled| i'll take off myjacket and rolled my sleeves _ i'll take off myjacket and rolled my sleeves up _ i'll take off myjacket and rolled my sleeves up into _ i'll take off myjacket and rolled my sleeves up into a _ i'll take off myjacket and rolled my sleeves up into a jujitsu - i'll take off myjacket and rolled i my sleeves up into a jujitsu move on the medium — my sleeves up into a jujitsu move on the medium the— my sleeves up into a 'u'itsu move on the mediumh the medium. the thing that was really happening _ the medium. the thing that was really happening in _ the medium. the thing that was really happening in that - the medium. the thing that was i really happening in that campaign was the tories were ruthlessly attacking the limb dems in the south of england and none of us really notice what was happening but it was massive. i notice what was happening but it was massive. , , ., ., massive. i remember being on that battle bus. — massive. i remember being on that battle bus. why _ massive. i remember being on that battle bus, why are _ massive. i remember being on that battle bus, why are we _ massive. i remember being on that battle bus, why are we going - battle bus, why are we going somewhere with a lib dem majority with 20,000? i probably should've put two _ with 20,000? i probably should've put two and two together, maybe they might _ put two and two together, maybe they might be _ put two and two together, maybe they might be doing quite well here, they were clearly getting pulling showing they were doing incredibly well and in the _ they were doing incredibly well and in the media we didn't pick it up very— in the media we didn't pick it up very welt — in the media we didn't pick it up very well. it�*s in the media we didn't pick it up ve well. �* , ., in the media we didn't pick it up very well-— in the media we didn't pick it up ve well. �* , ., ., ., , very well. it's one thing that has developed _ very well. it's one thing that has developed in _ very well. it's one thing that has developed in the _ very well. it's one thing that has developed in the selection - very well. it's one thing that has developed in the selection is - very well. it's one thing that has j developed in the selection is the ability to scrape data, look at where the battle buses are, where the cabinet are going, shadow cabinet, benches from other parties and something the ft has done and i thought was really interesting, if you look to be an activist can be put in postcodes for all 650 seats into each party's website, see where it takes you. it will show you where they are trying to divert activists from and two, and that's led to some quite interesting stories about where labour in particular which famously has lots of activists to play with is trying to kind of really making inroads against the conservatives.— conservatives. what i said at the start of this _ conservatives. what i said at the start of this conversation, - conservatives. what i said at the start of this conversation, you i conservatives. what i said at the i start of this conversation, you had a chance to sleep on this debate, what i realised this morning last night, that guy robert... got a huge round of applause in the room and we were like oh, that's the moment that sums up the mood of the country because it was based on the reaction in the room. actually once more people got involved in that conversation this morning, you saw the other side of it, people were actually quite critical of that question. not necessarily robert the person himself, he can ask whatever he wants, but the kind of anti—politics played on both your houses kind of speak. it was an interesting thing happening in a campaign where you have both of the main parties dropping and support and smaller parties rising in support so that does tap into this. if you look at the big picture, labour were 20 points ahead of the beginning and they are still 20 points ahead, both of the two parties are sinking and small parties are sinking and small parties are sinking and small parties are rising, a third of the electorate are not coming back and that probably hits now in the head. the best thing about this story was he was _ the best thing about this story was he was complaining on tv that he hadn't _ he was complaining on tv that he hadn't really answered his question. he said _ hadn't really answered his question. he said you — hadn't really answered his question. he said you both rubbish, what they meant _ he said you both rubbish, what they meant to— he said you both rubbish, what they meant to say a week after election, hands _ meant to say a week after election, hands up. _ meant to say a week after election, hands up. i— meant to say a week after election, hands up, i really am rubbish, don't vote for— hands up, i really am rubbish, don't vote for me — hands up, i really am rubbish, don't vote for me. to hands up, i really am rubbish, don't vote for me— vote for me. to sound a little pious for a moment. _ vote for me. to sound a little pious for a moment, covering _ vote for me. to sound a little pious for a moment, covering politics - vote for me. to sound a little pious for a moment, covering politics i i vote for me. to sound a little pious| for a moment, covering politics i do have a huge degree of respect for the people who put themselves forward for office, stand in front of the electorate and critically put them selves so much on the doorstep for abuse, them selves so much on the doorstep forabuse, recording them selves so much on the doorstep for abuse, recording by those ring door bells online and i think when he asked that question not to kind of counterattack robert in particular, that it was a bit of an easy cheap shot to make but it does reflect the fact that the two main party leaders in this contest were quite stayed in their matter. i got quite stayed in their matter. i got to thinking. _ quite stayed in their matter. i got to thinking, think _ quite stayed in their matter. i got to thinking, think about how tony blair, or david cameron, ord to thinking, think about how tony blair, or david cameron, 0rd ed miliband would have had a joke to disarm auburn and make the crowd laughed, and we saw a flicker of that with keir starmer when beth rigby is said you're really boring and he said, oh, thanks. iwas surprised that no—one had anything to cheer everything up or make light of that. taste to cheer everything up or make light of that. ~ . of that. we tried exciting with boris johnson _ of that. we tried exciting with boris johnson and _ of that. we tried exciting with boris johnson and look - of that. we tried exciting with boris johnson and look how i of that. we tried exciting with i boris johnson and look how that borisjohnson and look how that worked out. boring maybe isn't such a problem when we've been through such a tumultuous time, i was surprised he didn't deploy that again last time.— again last time. neither was a particularly — again last time. neither was a particularly brilliant _ again last time. neither was a particularly brilliant political i particularly brilliant political campaign _ particularly brilliant political campaign or— particularly brilliant political campaign or if— particularly brilliant political campaign or if you - particularly brilliant political campaign or if you compare| particularly brilliant political i campaign or if you compare to particularly brilliant political - campaign or if you compare to tony blair or— campaign or if you compare to tony blair or boris — campaign or if you compare to tony blair or borisjohnson, _ campaign or if you compare to tony blair or borisjohnson, great- blair or boris johnson, great political— blair or boris johnson, great political strength— blair or boris johnson, great political strength of- blair or boris johnson, great political strength of the - blair or borisjohnson, great- political strength of the community comet _ political strength of the community come. or— political strength of the community come. or nigel— political strength of the community come, or nigel farage, _ political strength of the community come, or nigel farage, whateveri political strength of the community i come, or nigel farage, whatever you make _ come, or nigel farage, whatever you make of— come, or nigel farage, whatever you make of his _ come, or nigel farage, whatever you make of his message. _ come, or nigel farage, whatever you make of his message. today- come, or nigel farage, whatever you make of his message. today he - come, or nigel farage, whatever you make of his message. today he wasl make of his message. today he was in a room _ make of his message. today he was in a room full— make of his message. today he was in a room full of — make of his message. today he was in a room full of a — make of his message. today he was in a room full of a thousand _ make of his message. today he was in a room full of a thousand people - make of his message. today he was in a room full of a thousand people and i a room full of a thousand people and he was _ a room full of a thousand people and he was off— a room full of a thousand people and he was off and — a room full of a thousand people and he was off and getting _ a room full of a thousand people and he was off and getting them - a room full of a thousand people and he was off and getting them to - a room full of a thousand people andj he was off and getting them to laugh out loud _ he was off and getting them to laugh out loud rishi — he was off and getting them to laugh out loud. rishi sunak— he was off and getting them to laugh out loud. rishi sunak and _ he was off and getting them to laugh out loud. rishi sunak and keir- out loud. rishi sunak and keir starmer— out loud. rishi sunak and keir starmer are _ out loud. rishi sunak and keir starmer are not— out loud. rishi sunak and keir starmer are not brilliant- starmer are not brilliant campaigning— starmer are not brilliantj campaigning politicians, starmer are not brilliant- campaigning politicians, that's starmer are not brilliant— campaigning politicians, that's not their strength _ campaigning politicians, that's not their strength. one _ campaigning politicians, that's not their strength.— their strength. one of the things teo . le their strength. one of the things people have _ their strength. one of the things people have been _ their strength. one of the things people have been talking - their strength. one of the things people have been talking aboutl their strength. one of the things| people have been talking about a their strength. one of the things - people have been talking about a lot on social media today is the latest tory attack ads which is a family with their backs to the camera and their hands up and it's repeating that line about that rishi sunak used a lot on wednesday night about don't surrender your life to the labour party. what you think is going on there? it’s labour party. what you think is going on there?— labour party. what you think is going on there? labour party. what you think is ttoin onthere? v , ,, , going on there? it's stepping up the attack, going on there? it's stepping up the attack. isn't — going on there? it's stepping up the attack, isn't it? _ going on there? it's stepping up the attack, isn't it? it— going on there? it's stepping up the attack, isn't it? it really— going on there? it's stepping up the attack, isn't it? it really is— attack, isn't it? it really is project fear going into overdrive, they're going all out, clearly think they've got nothing to lose from using this kind of scary tech to come i think some people think it's going to be too over—the—top. it'll spike a backlash. it doesn't chime with this mood of fear throughout the country about keir starmer and the country about keir starmer and the way that there was with jeremy corbyn. people did fear that what he do on the economy might need turmoil —— lead to turmoil, he wasn't exactly sound on national security, i don't think there are the same concerns about labour. to my mind, i'm not sure it's going to hit the markets aiming at. fiend i'm not sure it's going to hit the markets aiming at.— i'm not sure it's going to hit the markets aiming at. and that word surrender is _ markets aiming at. and that word surrender is so _ markets aiming at. and that word surrender is so emotive, - markets aiming at. and that word surrender is so emotive, and - markets aiming at. and that word | surrender is so emotive, and rishi sunak— surrender is so emotive, and rishi sunak was— surrender is so emotive, and rishi sunak was using it for reason history. — sunak was using it for reason history, the clearly told him use this everywhere, don't surrender money. — this everywhere, don't surrender money, don't surrender borders. i think— money, don't surrender borders. i think that — money, don't surrender borders. i think that having a child there was a step— think that having a child there was a step too