good evening and welcome to newsnight, live in glasgow. applause we're in one of the city's most iconic buidlings, the old fruitmarket, almost two centuries old, but the debate will be very much alive and in the here and now. in front of our audience, labour's shadow scotland secetary iain murray. kate forbes, deputy leader of the snp. conservative msp miles briggs. the leader of the scottish liberal democrats alex cole—hamilton. and the co—leader of the scottish green party patrick harvie. our audience tonight is broadly representative of the way people voted at the last general election in scotland and there are some people here who are going to raise issues very close to their heart. so let's hear from them. you are a nurse, tell me your story? i work in glasgow, i also work for the royal college of nursing and we conducted a study looking at students and their finances and to do that we got a lot of feedback on how they just won't manage and, how theyjust won't manage and, and was the option available to them to have food banks? and that is also the case was trained nurses all over glasgow, fuel costs, general cost of living, so we are in the process of thinking, is that something that we might have to do? so thinking, is that something that we might have to do?— thinking, is that something that we might have to do? so you are working at one of the — might have to do? so you are working at one of the biggest _ might have to do? so you are working at one of the biggest teaching - at one of the biggest teaching hospitals in europe, you are working for the royal college of nursing, and notjust student nurses but nurses need food banks? yes. it's ve , nurses need food banks? yes. it's very. very — nurses need food banks? yes. it's very. very sad- — nurses need food banks? yes. it's very, very sad. it's _ nurses need food banks? yes. it's very, very sad. it's a _ nurses need food banks? yes. it's very, very sad. it's a good - nurses need food banks? yes. it's very, very sad. it's a good wage, l very, very sad. it's a good wage, but because of the cost of living, everything goes up. we're travelling to work, we're paying for petrol. rents are going up, gas bills are going up, and our wagesjust aren't going up, and our wagesjust aren't going up, and our wagesjust aren't going up in correlation. it is a real struggle for a lot of people. and do you think people will leave to try and find betterjobs?- and do you think people will leave to try and find betterjobs? to try and find better “obs? yeah, a lot of people have _ to try and find betterjobs? yeah, a lot of people have left _ to try and find betterjobs? yeah, a lot of people have left because - to try and find betterjobs? yeah, a lot of people have left because of l lot of people have left because of being able to access their pension because they are in need of money for that. some of the students, we were lucky enough to have a debate at the parliament not that long ago, and they invited some of the students along and some of them said they do a full—time job in addition to doing their nurse training. that shows great _ to doing their nurse training. that shows great dedication to want to be a nurse. . . . shows great dedication to want to be a nurse. , , ., ., .,, a nurse. yes. it is a great “ob, it is 'ust if a nurse. yes. it is a great “ob, it isjust if we i a nurse. yes. it is a great “ob, it isjust if we could i a nurse. yes. it is a great “ob, it isjust if we could get h a nurse. yes. it is a great “ob, it is just if we could get fair h a nurse. yes. it is a great job, it isjust if we could get fair pay i a nurse. yes. it is a great job, it| isjust if we could get fair pay for is just if we could get fair pay for what we do. we are a critical profession. and it is really sad to see people having to drop outjust because they cannot afford to come to work. i because they cannot afford to come to work. ., ., ., , ., , to work. i want to hear your story, as i had please. _ to work. i want to hear your story, as i had please. i— to work. i want to hear your story, as i had please. i am _ to work. i want to hear your story, as i had please. i am a _ to work. i want to hear your story, as i had please. i am a single - as i had please. i am a single mother. _ as i had please. i am a single mother, i suffer _ as i had please. i am a single mother, i suffer from - as i had please. i am a single mother, i suffer from chronicj as i had please. i am a single - mother, i suffer from chronic pain, i have _ mother, i suffer from chronic pain, i have two— mother, i suffer from chronic pain, i have two children currently at university _ i have two children currently at university. i have suffered from chronic— university. i have suffered from chronic pain pretty much from the a-e chronic pain pretty much from the age of— chronic pain pretty much from the age of 18— chronic pain pretty much from the age of 18 but i carried on working and it_ age of 18 but i carried on working and it has— age of 18 but i carried on working and it has got to the point because of my— and it has got to the point because of my age — and it has got to the point because of my age i— and it has got to the point because of my age i think, it hasjust got so much — of my age i think, it hasjust got so much walking is an issue for me, standing _ so much walking is an issue for me, standing is — so much walking is an issue for me, standing is an issue for me, ijust can't _ standing is an issue for me, ijust can't seem — standing is an issue for me, ijust can't seem to win in life. so standing is an issue for me, i 'ust can't seem to win in life.�* can't seem to win in life. so you can't seem to win in life. so you can't work _ can't seem to win in life. so you can't work and _ can't seem to win in life. so you can't work and what _ can't seem to win in life. so you can't work and what does - can't seem to win in life. so you can't work and what does that l can't seem to win in life. so you - can't work and what does that mean for the incomes you have, presumably you get some benefits but what does it mean in terms of the way you can live your life? in it mean in terms of the way you can live your life?— live your life? in recent years since the _ live your life? in recent years since the covid _ live your life? in recent years since the covid pandemic- live your life? in recent years since the covid pandemic and live your life? in recent years - since the covid pandemic and the cost of— since the covid pandemic and the cost of living crisis and the energy increasing — cost of living crisis and the energy increasing dramatically, it hasjust become _ increasing dramatically, it hasjust become diabolical, ijust cannot manage — become diabolical, ijust cannot manage any more. money, bills and food, _ manage any more. money, bills and food, are _ manage any more. money, bills and food, are going on credit card. and i food, are going on credit card. and i can't _ food, are going on credit card. and i can't even — food, are going on credit card. and i can't even pay off my credit card. i can't even pay off my credit card. i am _ i can't even pay off my credit card. i am a _ i can't even pay off my credit card. i am a person— i can't even pay off my credit card. i am a person that doesn't drink, i don't _ i am a person that doesn't drink, i don't smoke, _ i am a person that doesn't drink, i don't smoke, i don't go out. i was very. _ don't smoke, i don't go out. i was very. very— don't smoke, i don't go out. i was very, very careful with my money, but very, very careful with my money, hut it— very, very careful with my money, but it has— very, very careful with my money, but it has got to the point ijust can't _ but it has got to the point ijust can't manage. i own my own flat and i can't manage. i own my own flat and i have _ can't manage. i own my own flat and i have been— can't manage. i own my own flat and i have been there for 22 years, and i have been there for 22 years, and i can't _ i have been there for 22 years, and i can't afford — i have been there for 22 years, and i can't afford repairs. and i have been there for 22 years, and i can't afford repairs.— i can't afford repairs. and it is kind of heat _ i can't afford repairs. and it is kind of heat or _ i can't afford repairs. and it is kind of heat or eat? _ i can't afford repairs. and it is kind of heat or eat? yes, - i can't afford repairs. and it is kind of heat or eat? yes, eat| i can't afford repairs. and it is i kind of heat or eat? yes, eat or eat, kind of heat or eat? yes, eat or eat. and _ kind of heat or eat? yes, eat or eat. and as _ kind of heat or eat? yes, eat or eat. and as a — kind of heat or eat? yes, eat or eat, and as a parent _ kind of heat or eat? yes, eat or eat, and as a parent of- kind of heat or eat? yes, eat or eat, and as a parent of children j kind of heat or eat? yes, eat or. eat, and as a parent of children at university. — eat, and as a parent of children at university. i— eat, and as a parent of children at university, i am the one that suffers — university, i am the one that suffers because i am a mum. it doesn't — suffers because i am a mum. it doesn't matter how old your children are. doesn't matter how old your children are as _ doesn't matter how old your children are as a _ doesn't matter how old your children are. as a parent, you take the brunt of it _ are. as a parent, you take the brunt of it when — are. as a parent, you take the brunt of it when it— are. as a parent, you take the brunt of it. when it comes to food, i don't — of it. when it comes to food, i don't have _ of it. when it comes to food, i don't have the money to buy food, so what do _ don't have the money to buy food, so what do i _ don't have the money to buy food, so what do i do? — don't have the money to buy food, so what do i do? my kids have the food, it keeps— what do i do? my kids have the food, it keeps the _ what do i do? my kids have the food, it keeps the peace in my house, and i do it keeps the peace in my house, and i do without — it keeps the peace in my house, and i do without-— i do without. miles briggs, from the conservative — i do without. miles briggs, from the conservative point _ i do without. miles briggs, from the conservative point of _ i do without. miles briggs, from the conservative point of view, - i do without. miles briggs, from the conservative point of view, it - i do without. miles briggs, from the conservative point of view, it is - conservative point of view, it is heat or eat, it is nurses and student nurses leaving the profession taking anotherjob, profession taking another job, needing profession taking anotherjob, needing a food bank, isn't it embarrassing?— needing a food bank, isn't it embarrassing? needing a food bank, isn't it embarrassinr? �* ~ ., ., , embarrassing? and i think all of us on the panel. _ embarrassing? and i think all of us on the panel, and _ embarrassing? and i think all of us on the panel, and everyone - embarrassing? and i think all of us on the panel, and everyone who i embarrassing? and i think all of us| on the panel, and everyone who has shared their stories tonight, will be aware ofjust how difficult things have been and that a global pandemic, the cost—of—living which we have seen increased. and that is where uk government have tried to assist where we can, in terms of the full hundred pounds energy heat support which every household has been entitled to, and also looking towards where additional support can be provided, you mentioned chronic pain, i actually co—chair the chronic pain cross—party group in the scottish parliament and actually providing services to help people get into employmentjust is not being provided in scotland. we have seen the scottish government actually cut the employability schemes in scotland. so we need to see this change and both governments need to be working together to help deliver better outcomes for everyone. deliver better outcomes for everyone-— deliver better outcomes for eve one. , . ., everyone. this is a uk election, health is a _ everyone. this is a uk election, health is a devolved _ everyone. this is a uk election, health is a devolved issue - everyone. this is a uk election, health is a devolved issue but i everyone. this is a uk election, health is a devolved issue but it everyone. this is a uk election, i health is a devolved issue but it is all part of how people make their minds up about how they are going to vote in a general election. your record of the snp, kate forbes, on the question of a cost crisis and on the question of a cost crisis and on the question of a cost crisis and on the question of making sure the medical profession, a critical profession, and it is not working? can ijust say profession, and it is not working? can i just say that this election is can ijust say that this election is about— can ijust say that this election is about making things different for both of— about making things different for both of you, and for people the length — both of you, and for people the length and breadth of the country. your stories are backed up by the research, — your stories are backed up by the research, here in glasgow, research suggests— research, here in glasgow, research suggests the cost of living crisis is meaning people are dying. so, poverty— is meaning people are dying. so, poverty is— is meaning people are dying. so, poverty is leading to excess deaths. but scotland can vary its income tax, which you do? find but scotland can vary its income tax, which you do?— but scotland can vary its income tax, which you do? and with that progressive _ tax, which you do? and with that progressive taxation _ tax, which you do? and with that progressive taxation we - tax, which you do? and with that progressive taxation we have - tax, which you do? and with that. progressive taxation we have been able to _ progressive taxation we have been able to do— progressive taxation we have been able to do more, for example in protecting — able to do more, for example in protecting children who are currently in poverty. and ensuring that nurses, — currently in poverty. and ensuring that nurses, for example, are paid more _ that nurses, for example, are paid more on _ that nurses, for example, are paid more on average across the uk when they get— more on average across the uk when they get into work. but more on average across the uk when they get into work.— they get into work. but because health has _ they get into work. but because health has been _ they get into work. but because health has been devolved - they get into work. but because health has been devolved for i they get into work. but because l health has been devolved for such they get into work. but because i health has been devolved for such a long time, there is more presumably you could have done to make sure the student nurses don't need a second job, don't need a food bank? {th job, don't need a food bank? of course we are the only part of the uk that— course we are the only part of the uk that is— course we are the only part of the uk that is protected by surveys for nurses— uk that is protected by surveys for nurses because we recognise the importance of supporting our nurses. -- protected— importance of supporting our nurses. —— protected bursaries. i know that because _ —— protected bursaries. i know that because my— —— protected bursaries. i know that because my daughter is a trainee nurse _ because my daughter is a trainee nurse this — because my daughter is a trainee nurse. this election needs to be about— nurse. this election needs to be about changing this once and for all. about changing this once and for all do— about changing this once and for all do you — about changing this once and for all. do you know the great injustice is that— all. do you know the great injustice is that scotland is a net producer of energy— is that scotland is a net producer of energy and yet byjuly this year you will— of energy and yet byjuly this year you will he — of energy and yet byjuly this year you will be paying at least £300 more _ you will be paying at least £300 more than you were to years ago, despite — more than you were to years ago, despite the — more than you were to years ago, despite the fact that the energy is transmitted... we despite the fact that the energy is transmitted. . ._ transmitted... we will talk about ener: transmitted... we will talk about energy later- _ transmitted... we will talk about energy later- it _ transmitted... we will talk about energy later. it is _ transmitted... we will talk about energy later. it is an _ transmitted... we will talk about energy later. it is an injustice. i energy later. it is an in'ustice. movin: energy later. it is an in'ustice. moving on i energy later. it is an in'ustice. moving on to the i energy later. it is an injustice. moving on to the question i energy later. it is an injustice. moving on to the question of i moving on to the question of inequality and poverty. iain murray, the biggest element of the campaign when you won rather by—election, the candidate, now the second labour mp in scotland, michael shanks, said that the cap on two child benefit was heinous. if it is heinous, why is that not a priority for you to lift it? ., , lift it? nothing highlights the failure of the _ lift it? nothing highlights the failure of the two _ lift it? nothing highlights the failure of the two current i failure of the two current governments we have got in scotland than the stories we have just heard. we hear from than the stories we have just heard. we hearfrom kate about than the stories we have just heard. we hear from kate about how they are trying to invest in public services. they are sacking teachers in glasgow. and the priorities of the scottish government in terms of theseissues scottish government in terms of these issues that are here are two tax you more as a nerve than to take more tax off... tax you more as a nerve than to take more tax off- - -_ more tax off... let's be quite clear, labour's _ more tax off... let's be quite clear, labour's position i more tax off... let's be quite clear, labour's position at i more tax off... let's be quite | clear, labour's position at the rutherglen by—election in scotland repeated time and again, by anas sarwar, was, we absolutely want the 2—child cap get on benefit lifted. and we do. but 2-child cap get on benefit lifted. and we do-_ 2-child cap get on benefit lifted. andwe do. �* , ., ., ., , ., and we do. but it is not a manifesto commitment. _ and we do. but it is not a manifesto commitment, you _ and we do. but it is not a manifesto commitment, you are _ and we do. but it is not a manifesto commitment, you are not _ and we do. but it is not a manifesto commitment, you are not going i and we do. but it is not a manifesto commitment, you are not going to i and we do. but it is not a manifesto i commitment, you are not going to do it...? �* , commitment, you are not going to do it...?�* , ., ., , it...? because what we have been highlighting _ it...? because what we have been highlighting here _ it...? because what we have been highlighting here is _ it...? because what we have been highlighting here is the _ it...? because what we have been highlighting here is the cost i it...? because what we have been highlighting here is the cost of- highlighting here is the cost of living crisis that people are being affected by, partially because, if not mostly, by the reckless economic decisions made by the conservative government crashing the economy, pushing up interest rates for the economies of the lady who has got a mortgage and being in her house were 22 years, pus