♪ ♪ ♪ good evening, thank you for joining us. we'll be here with cnn's chief dana bash, citing tonight's third republican presidential debate. that is just wrapped up. >> anderson, i'm gonna be speaking tonight with some of the candidates who just finished here on the debate stage minus, of course, the former president. the faraway front runner who has not attended any of these debates. he's competing instead and an event nearby. >> just five candidates this time, in a few moments, we'll hear what voters in iowa watch from cnn's gary tuchman made of what they saw. two candidates, florida governor ron desantis and former u. n. ambassador nikki haley with the two closest in the polls for the president. so many eyes were on them, including this exchange they got into with over china. >> then we will go in and all formal trade relations with china, base they start murdering americans for fentanyl. something -- they's have yet to say they will do. then we modernize our military. when we strengthen our military, when we modernize it, with the focus of cyber artificial intelligence in space when we make sure that we keep the bags of our friends, whether it's in israel, whether it's in ukraine and we should be arming taiwan. >> ambassador haley said somehow i wasn't doing, she welcomed that into south carolina, gave them that land near a military base. wrote the chinese ambassador a love letter, saying what a great friend they were. that was like their number one way to do economic development. in florida, i banned china from buying land in the state. and we kicked out -- we kicked out the confucius institutes at various universities. we recognize the threat, and we've acted swiftly and decisively. >> yes, i brought a fiber glass company ten years ago to south carolina. but ron, you are the chair of your economic development agency that as of last week said florida is the ideal place for chinese businesses. not only that, you have a company that is manufacturer of chinese military planes. you have, it they're expanding to training sites, and two of your airports now one which is 12 miles away from a naval base, then you have another company that's expanding. and they were just invaded by the department foment security. so, mine was ten years ago. yours was -- what your story? >> i abolish that agency that she's talking about. enterprise florida, we abolished it. of course, we banned china. >> -- not exactly a great recruiting pitch. >> check the website last week. >> with me tonight, cnn senior political analyst, -- cnn's abby philip, host of news night. senior political commentator, former obama senior adviser, daniel axelrod, who just exhaled loudly at that exchange. and three conservative -- commoners, scott jennings and david urban. we should quickly mention, david is a consultant for bytedance, a parent company of tiktok the social network that came up in the debate. >> good night, everybody. >> what did you exhale so loudly? >> just enjoying the great pageant of democracy. i mean, look, first of all, this debate is sort of odd. it's like the silver medal round. it's like the gold medal winner has already been declared, and this is the silver medal round. now, it's come down really to two candidates. haley and desantis. and you get what you get, by the way, this is being carried out the same debate on television in iowa right now. one of them, the whole theory of the case is one of them is gonna emerge as the trump challenger. the problem is trump has such a large lead nationally that it just might be meaningless. >> what are they hoping for? some sort of criminal indictment? somehow they'll step into the breach? >> look, trump really only came up of the beginning part of the debate. when they asked directly about him. other than that, to their credit, they were debating amongst themselves about their positions on issues, a little name calling here and there. i think that they're just hoping that he just implodes. nobody is really trying to take it to trump. not even chris christie, the person who's ostensibly in this race to take on trump. i don't see anything changing there. i think haley sees desantis as a problem for her. desantis haley as a problem. ramaswamy sees desantis and haley as a problem. they're all fighting over the same 15% of the electorate. none of them really have a plan it seems to get beyond that, get closer to trump, he's mid 40s. and beyond. it's not changing. >> hope is not a good strategy. >> 40 points ahead. look, they want to take home the silver medal, as david said, what does that get you? it doesn't get you much. what was interesting to me, about tonight, they were given the opportunity to take on donald trump right out of the box. you know, christy did it. haley did it, but ramaswamy, of course, not so much, and desantis said well, he said we'd be tired of winning. i'm tired of losing. still, didn't take him on frontal. they didn't mention, well, a little sharper. you know, they didn't mention anything about the trial. the former president's testimony this past week. or the indictments. none of that came up. and it's clear that they're just still a little nervous. except for chris christie. >> yeah, because, the underlying premise here, if they attack donald trump, whatever percentage they command now will decrease. proportionate to their attack of donald trump. because they're fighting and i, whether the fighting to regain relevance. the party still wants donald trump, until the party moves past donald trump, this isn't even a silver medal round. this is a jv game this is not even for a metal. there is a way to do it. >> i thought that would probably get me the most fire we've seen tonight. because we are two months out from iowa. you have nikki and desantis closing in. and there was a real discussion around the electability issue. coming off of last night, republicans on that stage had been raising alarm bells. we lost in 2020. 2018. 2023. with donald trump we continue to lose, and nikki haley the best case she has that she performs head to head against joe biden, better than any candidate on that stage and donald trump. that is the message you don't even have to alienate voters. by going after the policy, the personality, of the indictment. and it wasn't there. >> the electability argument was thought to be the main way to get him for so long. and then the national polling started to change. and for the last several weeks republicans have been looking at poll after poll, showing biden circling the drain. and trump going up, nationally, and in the swing states, if you're a republican you like donald trump, you say, well, anybody's gonna beat joe biden. ? >> that's the failure of litigating the case before this. >> that's desantis's main argument. i'm the one who's gonna take on. >> yet he does worse head to head. >> tonight, what was interesting, desantis, i think, for one of the first times really took on nikki haley. because she's obviously standing in his way. you know, he took her on in ways that he hasn't done before. he attacked her without being attacked first. >> i would just say this about last night. what we saw last night, across america, we continue to see, is republicans misaligning on the abortion issue. every one of those candidates on that stage is in the losing side of the abortion question. they all want a six-week ban. so -- >> not tim scott, he laid out a pretty clear challenge everybody to go to 15 weeks. it's true, i understand that. my point, that this isn't really, they're not really advancing the ball. they're not electable. they're not more electable. >> before we jump to abortion, because i think haley had a really strong answer on that. just a second something that scott said, nikki haley's principal argument in the first debate was that trump couldn't win, and that she could. she didn't repeat that argument now for the reason that scott said. republicans believe any of these guys could beat biden. and they might as well go with a guy they like. and the guy they want. >> i thought haley, by the way, just on the merits, had a really strong night. abortion in otherwise. i thought desantis had a really strong open. so, if you agree, it's got down to those two as the real possible here they both were very good. there were some great answers tonight on desantis assailing biden over some of his response on israel. you know, i thought haley taken on ramaswamy by the way. ramaswamy, he's like the guy running the ship in space balls. he went right to ludicrous speed. right out of the gate. >> people like that, scott. they like it. -- >> in the realm of mel brooks movies, space balls was not the finest. let's show the nikki haley what she said about abortion. >> somehow, i wasn't doing -- >> be honest with the american people. this is a personal issue for every woman and every man. i am unapologetically pro-life. not because the republican party tells me to be. but because -- my husband michael was adopted, i had trouble having both of my children. i'm surrounded by blessings. having said, that when you look post roe, a wrong was made right. they took the hands of unelected justices, and they put it in the hands of the people. now, we're seeing states vote. what i'll tell you, as much as i'm pro-life, i don't judge anyone for being pro-choice. and i don't want them to judge me for being pro-life. so, when we're looking at this, there's some states that are going more on the pro-life site. i welcome that. there's some states that are going more on the pro-choice site, i wish that wasn't the case, but the people decided. when it comes to the federal law, which is what's being debated here, be honest. it's gonna take 60 senate votes, a majority of that house, and a president to sign it. so, no, we haven't had 60 senate votes in over 100 years. we might have 45 pro-life senators. so, no republican president can ban abortions. any more than a democrat president can bend the state laws. let's find consensus. let's agree on what how we can ban late term abortions. let's make sure we encourage adoptions, and good quality adoptions. let's make sure we make contraception accessible. let's make sure that none of these state laws put a woman in jail or give her the death penalty for getting an abortion. let's focus on how to save as many babies as we can, and support as many moms as we can. and stop the judgment. we don't need to divide america over this issue anymore. >> can i just say about that, nikki haley, to credit where it's due, that has been her position from the beginning. of her campaign for the presidency. you are seeing a lot of the other candidates, i saw a softening in desantis's position tonight. i spoke to chris christie last night, during our coverage of the election, he also adopted basically that position. even donald trump coming to this place was after nikki haley. early on in this campaign, when she made those kinds of comments, she was criticized for not coming out strongly enough at the certain point to say, i support x number of weeks, 15 weeks, 20 weeks, what have you. so, you know, now that we have two cycles, basically, the dobbs decision being a political disaster for republicans, people are looking at that answer and say, it's calibrated exactly the right way perhaps. but to her credit, she's been saying that, and i'm seeing, to my ear, i felt like desantis was the one who moved the most on his abortion. he talked about a six-week ban. >> after he signed the 15-week thing. >> he didn't talk about that really. he was talking about basically some kind of compassion of conservativism position. which is not where he was a year ago. >> let's just play what he said. >> i'm reminded of a story about a young mother who is struggling in jamaica about 40 years ago, 45 years ago. she was counseled to not have a baby. because she was poor. baby would not have opportunity. and she came close to having an abortion. she decided to have the baby, born poor in jamaica. the reason i know that story, because that baby girl ended up emigrating to the state of florida, becoming a lawyer and a judge. and i appointed her to the florida supreme court in august of 2022. >> you've got to do a better job on these referendums. of all the stuff that's happened in the pro-life cause, we've been caught flat-footed on these referendums. they have been losing the referenda. a lot of the people who are voting for the referenda a republican to vote for republican candidate. you have to understand how to do that. >> so, a fine night for ron desantis, but i've seen him grow as a candidate, i'm not seen him grow to build a talk to a general election audience. as a republican, i got what he was saying, it didn't move the needle for me. but nikki haley, to her credit, has had a nuanced and lead on the issue of abortion from the outside of her campaign. i would actually argue that, if last, night there's the kind of criticism over glenn youngkin in virginia. had his message sounded more like that's where you can get a broad swath of the country left right and center to at least come to the table and have the conversation that's a general action can i think you gonna see donald trump like the falling message. trump's been there not be able to articulate. reasonable rating. >> let's cut a deal, when a great place, we should cut a deal. >> here's the thing about being a general election candidate to be a general election candidate, you have to get to the general election. so, ron desantis has one thing in mind, which is to win the iowa or to do well enough in iowa to keep on playing the game. that is a lot of evangelical voters in iowa. this is why he's so embraced that six-week ban in the first place. she is showing up better in the polls, she certainly may be the best general election candidate, but it's how do you get from here to there. >> i think she understands this is an emotional issue. it's not just donald trump saying, let's cut a deal. it's a real estate deal. let's come up with 15 weeks, this is an emotional issue. and i think that's what nikki haley understands. that's what ron desantis was trying to do by talking about a personal experience with someone. but when she says let's not judge people on either side, i think people want to hear that, because they understand it's emotional. and it's very different from any other issue they're gonna discuss. you know, i think she's just been out front on this. from day one. >> she's more able to go down this road to access point, then desantis. she's really playing, like you said, for new hampshire. he's playing for iowa. you just can't go as far. i think we republicans, walking to the iowa caucus who want exceptions. they want something a little different. by and large, that's a more conservative group on this than other social issues than you might run into in new hampshire. you just thinking about the math and the tactical move here. desantis has to get there. he doesn't get there on round one. she's left for round two. >> again, the question is, what does it matter? what does it matter? if trump wins by 40 or 50 points in iowa, does it matter? >> by the, way trump is not playing the same game. he's not playing the same game as any of these people. >> the rules don't apply. >> then he wins big in new hampshire. he wins big in south carolina. wids begin about. this is all the move. this is academic. it's academic. >> susan b anthony list antiabortion groups, basically, think trump is selling them out on this issue of abortion. it is not impacted him the most. >> he appointed the court that overturned roe v. wade. that's all he has to say. >> criticize donald trump. >> argument in the polls. reflected nothing, no diminution. his voters are not pressing on these issues. they got one issue. vindication. they think he's gonna get nominated, they think he's gonna be biden, fair and square. and they think they're gonna be vindicated on russia, impeachment, policy, indictments. all of it. january 6th. they think they're getting vindication and ultimately the we told you. so they're not sitting here parsing out these individual issues. the only way to get vindication for them is to nominate trump. no issues gonna put him off that. >> you know what? talk about new hampshire, i think that is, a couple of, he didn't do well in iowa. new hampshire is perilous for him here. you have democratic voters participating. haley is trying to do well enough in iowa, she loves to finish second, to have that face-off in new hampshire on the theory of desantis will be gone from the race but the question is can anyone ultimately overtake trump. if it doesn't happen in new hampshire. and it doesn't happen in iowa, it's everybody gets it. >> party handshake. >> south carolina. that's her strategy. if she can in iowa. >> i think this is all academic. >> by the way, national polls at this juncture, do not mean much. you combine the average polling of every candidate on that stage. and they don't add up toward donald trump's. i think we have to start, as a party being realistic about the fact that short of some outside factor, 91 indictments were not enough. donald trump will be the nominee, tonight, to me, did not in any way to move the needle. if anything, it just narrowed it to nikki and desantis. >> i agree. i don't think the needle moved. also, to your point about this idea of maybe desantis being gone at some point, a lot of people are going to trump. >> that's actually right. >> haley is not necessarily -- >> the desantis strategy was to out-trump trump. and to run to the right of trump. he has succeeded in winning the admiration of trump voters, but they have trump. >> look at the state of florida. donald trump's far more popular than ron desantis in his own state. >> gonna take a short break, candidate vivek ramaswamy joins dana next. coming up. is it 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billion dollars back to that same country. >> then you, is there any truth to that? >> so, major problems, with both parts of that claim for mr. ramaswamy. number one, the claim about a supposed bribe, to hunter, biden is completely uncorroborated. number two, there is not one iota of evidence, nothing at all, to suggest that aid to ukraine, which has been approved by bipartisan majorities, has anything to do with any member of the biden family. so, what we know about this claim of a bribe? well, all we know is that, in 2020, a confidential fbi source told the bureau that for years prior, he had heard the ceo of ukrainian energy company, where hunter biden sat on the board, say that the ceo had given two 5 million dollar payments, 1 to 1 biden, and one to another. a dramatic claim. but that claim, from the informant, contained no proof whatsoever, in, fact the fbi report in memorialized allegation, said the source cannot even authorize the opinion of the accuracy of the claim. subsequently, the house h