back at war. after hamas breaks the seven-day truce, israel steps up attacks on southern gaza and the u.s. offers a warning. >> as israel defends itself, it matters how. >> how should israel respond? >> a war to eliminate hamas. nothing else will stop us. >> south carolina lindsey graham will join us. and as progressis split with president biden over the war and other priorities -- >> they won't vote. it's 2016 all over again. >> how much could that hurt biden in the fall? progressive caucus chairwoman pramila jayapal is here exclusively. and teflon don? six weeks before the iowa caucuses and drmonald trump is trying to flip the script. >> this campaign is a righteous crusade. >> can anyone counter him? our panel will discuss. hello. i'm dana bash in washington where the state of our union is six weeks from the iowa caucuses, but this election cycle already feels a long time coming. in iowa this weekend, former president donald trump is trying to turn to the general election, with a brazen yet not surprising new claim that actually president biden is a threat to american democracy, not him. even as trump faces charges that he tried to overturn the 2020 election. president biden's general election campaign was complicated again this week by the resumption of the israel/hamas war. overseas yesterday, vice president kamala harris offered words of caution for israel as it picked up its bombing campaign, in an already devastated gaza, where israel is warning palestinians who have already evacuated to the south to move again after the u.s. says that hamas reneged on its deal with israel to release the women they are still holding hostage. here with me now is republican senator lindsey graham. thank you so much for joining me this morning, sir. let's start with the hostages. hamas still has more than 130 hostages, includeing the u.s. government believes eight americans. what should the u.s. and israel do right now to get them out? >> i guess just keep talking and i would put more pressure on iran. hamas doesn't exist without iranian help. our soldiers are being hit in syria and iraq by shiite militia controlled by iran. so what i would do is flip the script here. i would go to iran and say, listen, you need to tell hamas to let these hostages go. if you don't, you're going to start paying a heavier price. >> and you think that just that pressure on iran will actually produce hostages in return? you think it's potentially as simple -- i mean, there's nothing simple here. i don't want to oversimplify it, but that is -- >> no, no, you're right. here's what i believe. if iran felt they were threatened by hamas' behavior, they would have hamas change their behavior. but israel is going back to the fight so here's the big qu question. vice president harris has said, israel has a right to defend themselves. how you do it matters. the secretary of defense said it would be a strategic period for israel to have killed too many palestinians. i don't want any palestinian to die, but how do you do this? vice president harris, tell israel how to destroy hamas in a way not to hurt innocent palestinians and i'll pass it along. i don't know how to do this. because hamas is integrated into the apartments, the schools, and the hospitals. they have tunnels all over the pl place. the reason so many palestinians are dying, i think, is because hamas wants them to die. if you have ideas about lessening civilian casualties, let me know, i'll tell israel, but the idea of hamas still standing when this is over would be the ultimate strategic failure. >> the reason xi said that, obviously, and what secretary austin said, which is what i'll get to in a minute, is that they believe that too many palestinian civilians have been killed. do you agree with that? >> well, tell us how to do it differently. you know, what is too many people dying in world war ii, after pearl harbor? did the american public worry about how many people were dying to destroy tokyo and berlin? i know this is not the same, but it's similar. i mean, after october the 7th, israel's at total war with hamas. what they did, you won't even show on television, probably because you can't. so the bottom line here is, is no republican believes this, by the way. no republican is telling israel to change their military tactics, because i don't know how to change them. i think the goal of destroying hamas is important for israel, really important for the palestinians, and hamas is making it impossible for israel to fight without hurting innocent people. >> there's the humanitarian aspect, which we were just talking about, then there's the strategic question, which you have experience with in other parts of the world, when the u.s. has been in conflicts. and so i want to go back to what you alluded to, which is what the defense secretary lloyd austin said yesterday. he said, if you drive civilians into the arms of the enemy, you replace a tactical victory with a strategic defeat. which he's saying that civilian casualties could create even more enemies. does he have a point? >> no. he's so naive. i mean, i just lost all confidence in this guy. how about focusing on protecting our soldiers, men and women in syria and iraq. strategic defeat would be enflaming the palestinians. they're already enflamed. they're taught from the time they're born to hate the jews and to kill them. they're taught math, if you have ten jews and kill six, how many would you have left? this is like is a tranquil population that's only enflamed, is really naive. i don't want to kill innocent people, but israel is fighting not just hamas but the infrastructure around hamas. look at what happened to the israeli hostages when they were presented to the palestinian population. it's beyond naive. strategic failure is letting hamas stand. but here's the question for the world. when hamas is defeated, what happens next? that's when i want the arab world, the united states, and the western world to come in with a governing plan different than we have today for the palestinian people. i want to come no for a better life for the palestinian people, after you destroy hamas. >> a couple things there. one is, you said you've lost confidence now in secretary austin? >> total. >> but you've been a supporter? >> well, i like secretary austin, but this war has shown to me, if we were attacked like this, which we were on 9/11, if somebody called for us within two months to have a cease-fire against al qaeda, we would have laughed them out of town, we would have run them out of town. secretary austin is telling israel things that are impossible to achieve. secretary austin, the reason palestinians are dying, gaza is so condensed, hamas has tunnels under apartments, under schools, under hospitals. if you've got a better idea of how to destroy hamas, pass it on! quit criticizing israel in public. >> i want to move on, but just to quickly follow up, you well know that general stanley mcchrystal ain another war has called i think what secretary austin was referring to insurgent math. each innocent person that is killed ultimately creates new insurgents. you agree with that? >> i get the theory. but i would say that the population has been radicalized for decades. do you not get that? do you know what they teach in the schools? the idea that somehow we're -- israel is radicalizing the people in gaza is ridiculous. they've been radicalized by hamas for years. >> okay, senator, i want to talk about what you and the congress will do. as you well know, there's a big tug-of-war over foreign aid to israel and ukraine. you and your fellow republicans want to include border security and new immigration restrictions. you haven't been able to make a deal yet. would you still vote for that foreign aid if immigration is not includeincluded? >> no. i think their votes for israel apart from the package. republicans overwhelmingly support israel, so do most democrats. republicans are divided on ukraine. republicans are 100% behind strong border security. if you want aid to ukraine, we need to control our southern border. we're having, dana, # 9,000 peo a day come through the last week. you have to change your asylum laws and parole laws to stop the flow. i will not vote for any aid until we secure our own border. reform asylum, reform parole. it's possible to do. democrats don't want to do it, all republicans want to do it. i'm in the helping ukraine until we help ourselves. >> senator, you said this week that texas governor greg abbott should send migrants to states like rhode island and oregon and connecticut where democratic senators oppose this new stricter asylum provision that you want. have you heard back from governor abbott? >> no, i'm going to go visit. here's the problem. you have 11 democratic senators signing a letter resisting changing the laws that attract so many illegal immigrants. 6 million people were encountered in 2023. texas has been overrun. the democratic position is remain in texas. i'm telling governor abbott, why don't you send thousands of these illegal immigrants to the states where senators wrote the letters, rhode island, massachusetts, connecticut, oregon, and let them understand what it's like to live with a broken border. the towns along the border in texas are basically being sold. 6 million people have come into our country illegally in fy23 with no end in sight. >> and what do you say to those who say these are humans and they're not pawns on a chess board and moving them to different states may not be the most humane move if you want to make a political point. >> yeah, well, it is inhumane to live in massachusetts, connecticut, rhode island? it's about making it real to people who refuse to fix the problem. i've been involved in immigration reform for decades. this is a national security problem. this is not about fixing a broken immigration system. it's about fixing a broken border. to my democratic colleagues, if you don't understand what it's like from illegal immigration overwhelming effect on your communities, you need to experience. look at what happened in new york. the governor and mayor of new york are begging for help. so to my democratic colleagues who want texas to bear this burden, forget it. they should be sending them to you. it's not inhumane to live in connecticut. >> let's talk about the 2024 campaign trail. donald trump called obamacare a disaster last night in iowa after reiterating his calls to repeal it. you, sk on voted to appeal obamacare when trump was president. do you think that this is a winning issue right now? would you like to see at vote again? >> here's what -- good question. this is what we try to do when trump was president. let's block the money. the money that we have in washington to minister obamacare is controlled by democrats you'll never meet. let's take that money, send it back to the states, make sure it's spent on health care and see if -- >> so you're okay with -- >> yeah, i'm okay -- i would like to get the money power out of washington and back to the states. i think we should block grant it back to the states and let bureaucrats in washington run our health care. socialized medicine doesn't work. get the money and power of washington and get it in the hands of the people closest to the patient. >> senator, before i let you go, i want to ask you about your fellow republican former congress wang liz cheney. she has a new book out, we sat down for an interview this week and she said she's worried that the chance of a second trump presidency means the u.s. is, quote, sleepwalking into a dictatorship. you, of course, have endorsed donald trump. what's your reaction? >> yeah, yeah. i think a continuation of the biden presidency would be a disaster for peace and prosperity at home and abroad. our border is broken. the only person really going to fix a broken border is donald trump. when he was president, none of this stuff was going on in ukraine, you know, hamas and all of these other terrorist groups were afraid of trump. i think liz's hatred of trump is real. i understand why people don't like what he does and says at times, but in terms of actions and results, he was far better president for biden and if we have four more years of this, liz cheney, then we won't recognize america and the world will be truly on fire. >> senator lindsey graham, thank you so much for joining me this morning. i appreciate it. >> thank you. and less than a year until election day and progressives have a warning for president biden. the quhchairwoman of the progressive caucus, pramila jayapal is here. and again, it's just six weeks until iowa and a lot of action there this weekend. we'll talk about that, coming up. welcome back to state of the union. with the collapse of the temporary truce between israel and hamas, here in the u.s., democratic divisions over the direction of the war and support before israel are once again on full display. here with me now is house progressive caucus chairwoman, pramila jayapal. thank you for coming. it's nice to see you in person. let's start with where we are right now with the war. the white house says very clearly that hamas is to blame for the collapse of this temporary truce for a few reasons. one is that they refuse to release the remaining women, some of whom, sounds like, most of whom are 20 to 30-year-old woman. they're hostage inside gaza. they also renewed the military attacks against israel. you have repeatedly called for israel to implement and indefinite cease-fire, but given what we have just seen with what i just described, is that realistic? >> well, it's what has to happen. and i do think it's realistic. i think what we saw is after, you know, many weeks of saying we couldn't get to a cease-fire, that was not going to happen, we did have a temporary cease-fire. and what happened? we were able to see a significant number of hostages released. we were able to get humanitarian aid into gaza. and i think the long-term plan for what happens is incredibly important. now you've seen vice president harris made a very strong statement yesterday, defense secretary lloyd austin also was very clear that if you engage in urban warfare in the way that israel did in northern gaza, what you will do is perhaps win a temporary victory or reprieve, but you're not going to win the long-term strategic war. so the only way, dana, to get through this is to make sure that we, first of all, do not have the kinds of casualties that we saw in northern gaza. there's no way to do that with the kind of war that israel is waging right now, on gaza. >> a couple of things, one is, you said it worked. yes, there were hostages who were released, but it wasn't even an actual hard cease-fire. they were just right to get another day and hamas wouldn't comply. so what makes you think that hamas would comply with the longer term cease-fire? >> well, i think this is all about negotiation. qatar has been incredibly helpful here. it's not clear to me from the reporting who was to blame for -- >> you don't believe the u.s. -- the biden administration, that hamas -- >> well, i just think it's very complicated. >> young women. >> i think it's very, very complicated. it's not -- we don't have all the information in front of us. we obviously can, you know, can rely on some statements that are made, but i think that in these negotiations, everybody wants something. and i think qatar has said that hamas is still at the table. israel should still be at the table. in fact, some of the hostages -- the israeli hostages are saying that israel should still be at table. this is a complex negotiation and it doesn't happen unless both sides are willing to come to some kind of an agreement. that's how we got the first seven days. >> that's a really important point about both sides being willing to come to an agreement, because regardless of what has happened last week, and let's just say there is a more permanent cease-fire, you are hearing from hamas leaders over and over again that the brutal massacre of the 1,200 israeli civilians was just the beginning, just a rehearsal. and that they want to continue to do it over and over again. so a cease-fire would keep that brutal terrorist regime in place in gaza. >> i don't think that's true. i think that what is true is that hamas needs to be taken out. it is a terrorist organization. >> how would you do that? >> but i think the way to do that, as many terrorism experts have said, is to create a durable and strong coalition of allies within the middle east, with the united states, with israel, to make sure that we have a long-term political solution, that there is an alternative to hamas to lead in gaza, and to establish a state for palestinians. this is -- i mean, we cannot -- we have to condemn what hamas did on october 7th. we cannot allow for 15,000 palestinians to date to have been killed. three quarters of whom are women and children, and say that that is going to help us in the long-term. morally, dana, morally, but also, strategically, for israel, the only way through this is to create a situation where there is a political solution that involves a palestinian state and an israeli state. >> i think ideally, what you're talking about could make sense. it's just unclear how you get from here to there. who's going to get rid of hamas if -- i mean, if -- if there's no continued war and i think what you're relying on is the pressure from arab states, and they haven't been willing to do that. >> well, part of the reason they haven't been willing to do that is because we have been allowing israel to really indiscriminately bomb hospitals, violate international humanitarian law sand so we are creating -- >> okay, pre-october 7th -- can i ask you one more thing. you have seen the information and intelligence that hamas have used their own civilians. the death of civilians are, it's horrendous, but hamas has used its own civilians as human shields. those hospitals and so forth are places where hamas keeps weapons and keeps its hamas leadership, that they have their headquarters there. >> dana, international humanitarian law says that you cannot attack a hospital unless there is some circumstances, if rockets are fired from that hospital, that is one thing. but hospitals are protected. we have had refugee camps that are bombed. right now, there are -- the only pediatric hospital in gaza is not operating. if we want to defeat terrorists, we have to abide by international humanitarian law. that is just my fundamental belief. and that at the end of the day, what we need is a lasting coalition. that is not going to be formed if israel continues to do what they are doing. and the united states cannot be backers of this kind of indiscriminate bombing. that is my firm belief. we should have conditions on military aid, in the same way that we do for every other country. >> i want to ask you about sexual violence and the -- it's kind of remarkable that this issue hasn't gotten enough attention, globally. widespread use of rape, brutal rape, sexual violence against israeli women by hamas. i've seen a lot of progressive wo women, generally speaking, they're quick to defend women's rights and to speak out against using rape as a women of war. but downright silent on what we saw on october 7th. and what might be happening inside gaza right now to these hostages. why is that? >> i don't know if that's true. we always talk about the impact of war on women in particular. in fact, i remember 20 years ago, i did a petition around the war in iraq. >> have you talked about it since october 7th? >> absolutely. and i've condemned what hamas has done. >> specifically against women? >> absolutely. the rape, the -- of course. but i think we have to remember israel is a democracy. that is why they're a strong ally of ours. and if they do not comply with interna