trey: good evening and thank you for joining us, i'm trey gowdy and it's sunday night in america. hamas released some of the hostages taken during the october 7 attack on israel including a 4-year-old american child, which may have you wondering what depraved group take as 4-year-old child in the first place? hamas does. the same group that orphaned that child by killing her mother and father. while people of good conscious celebrate the release of that whiled and others, many hostages we main, separated from their loved ones, deprived of food, light, liberty and most likely humanity. hamas did not, of course, release hostages because t the right thing to do. >> hamas only did so in exchange for plastein january prisoners and a pause in israel's ground invasion in gaza. as fighting resumes, internal medduations are reportedly still on going. so how do you even begin to negotiation with a terrorist group >> we have former navy seal commander and hostage negotiator dan o'shea. thank you for junior service to our country. how do you negotiate when one side doesn't seem to value life the same way the other side does? >> >> it is a challenge but the problem is terrorist organizations, this is how they negotiate with the west and the reason that hamas grabbed over 240 odd hostages and have this leverage knowing this was going to be the only ward they could play and played it very well and ceasefire is for hamas and allows them to retreat. , we arm and refit and reengage in the next phase of idf offense and i have these negotiations were not across the table between israel and hamas and why it's a challenging process going forward. synergy home you know, my wife and i were in israel about 18 months ago and our tour guide told us a story of israeli soldier taken and israel exchanged 1,000 prisoners, some of whom had been sentenced to life for one single israeli soldier. so for those of us who will never negotiate over human life, you have. how do you know what the life of a soldier or american 4-year-old, how do you know what a life is worth when you have trading it? >> well, that is the challenge because that's set -- that sergeant was held for five years and released for as you said over 1,000 prisoners, many of whom were equipmented of capital crimes and the rest. it shows the level of how important every life is in israel. every citizen of israel for 1,001 reasons and we know what they've gone through. the holocaust and everything and they've been attacked and targeted throughout their entuss tense and that's why they value -- existence and that's why they halleluiah life so high. hamas doesn't value life and use their own people as human shields and what we're dealing with in the latest war of gaza and shows the level of difference between those in the west and those in israel that value human life and those like hamas where life is a commodity and spent at will and executed and murdered at will, which is what they did on october 7. trey: i cannot imagine nerve nucleus gauching when you can't agree on the -- negotiating when you can't agree on the value of the currency. before i let you g the fighting resumed in gaza. i'm assuming that's not a good sign for the state of negotiations about current hostages, but maybe i'm wrong about that. >> well, the challenge is if hamas is not wiped out, what happened on october 7 will happen again. time and time again, israel has to deal with it. it happens on average every ten years in a major conflict and they're fighting for their very existence. netanyahu needs to finish what they startedded, which is to wipe hamas out but the challenge is, yes, it puts the hostages back in grave resident and can it -- the calculus of the next batch of hostaging coming out will argue be much higher and l value proved to be worth so much and the price to get the next hostages is a higher sticker price. trey: dan,'shea, thank you for your service and joining us on a sunday nigh. >> my pleasure. >> how do we balance the joy some hostages were release with the reality it was barbaric to take them in the first place. tempering the good news of freedom for some and remembering many are still in captivity. outrebounded do you see depravity up employees and personal and not be forever marred by it. the safety of a 4-year-old child without forget hog made her an orlikowski fin. joining us now is dr. ratan treating freed hostages and there's physical needs and emotional kite logical needs and how do you find those kinds of injuries. >> what's happening in israel and we're treating over and on behalf of those treating them that returned and mental states being conjured and have no precedent in medical literature. we feel that we have to row write the textbook of post-trauma. you have to remember as far as you know, the red cross has not visited nor assisted those who are held captive and there is evidence of severe physical and mental abuse. those held captive are subject to starvation and physical abuse and they were being held in unsanitary conditio conditions d exoteric psychological abuse inflict the on them including separation from family members, separation of siblings, separations of children from their mothers. they were held in solitary confinement and spent long days in total darkness until they developed severe hallucinations. children were forced to watch brutal videos and threats to harm them even after being released and forced to the forced use of psychiatric drugss and other substances. it is clear to us now that we must release hostages and the cruelty is inhumane and intolerable and some of the hostages are in a bad mental state and might even hurt themselves and we now start with integrity physical and mental rehabilitation and required in the treatment of those released from captivities. some of the home comers look fine and happy and physically fine. we know that most of them suffer from severe post-traumatic symptoms and painful memories and entering into the social active sate state and feel they're in captivity and they return to the understanding they've been released and experience difficulties falling asleep and staying asleep and suffer from nightmares at night. they report fear and hypersensitivity to sound and light and some of them developed severe depression. depression trey: what some of these folks saw before they were taken captive, the bashism and the heinous nature of what hamas did and they're unseen injuries and for some it will be a lifelong sentence, their victimhood will be a live long seasons and thank you for treating them and taking care of them and we'd love to have you back to check on their progress. have a good sunday night. more weapons are being sent to the area and both defensive and offensive weapons and the chaos on capitol hill is aif he coulding funding and perhaps the management of this conflict. the war in eastern europe, continues even if it doesn't make the news like it once did, ukraine continues to trying to fight off russian aggression. joining us is fox news national security correspondent jennifer griffin. jennifer, thank you for being here. let's start with whether or not in your judgment the u.s. mail tear is being stretched -- ill mare is being stretched -- military being stretched thinly because of soldiers, weapons or money on capitol hill. >> there's no soldiers involved in the conflict of ukraine or israel for that matter in gaza. what we are seeing being stretch second-degree that supply lains and that -- lines and having to resupply two different conflicts and the burn rate of the ammunition and the shells that are needed in ukraine and the gaza strip for israel as well as missile defense systems and all those intercepters, you're seeing that the pentagon is keeping up but just barely. if the funding is not resolved on capitol hill, right now we're at the reagan library in sim, valley for the tenth annual reagan defense forum. one of the reasons they hold it every year since the beginning of december is that is when they're such a fight in congress over the funding of the defense budget. this year's defense budget is a whopping $886 billion and still being fought over. if they don't get that money, if they don't get those weapon in jeukraine, russia will win and that's a strategic defeat for the united states, trey. trey: hill tearing promotions moving at a snail's pace and may be generous in the senate and is the war in the middle east going to do anything to break the impasse? >> it's been frustrating with the top military officials and the officers families being affected by tommy tuberville's hold on the military promotions and talking about more than 3000 families and officers being affected, but it's not just that, it's leaving open gaps in terms of top leaders of the u.s. military. right now the head of the nsa, the person in charge of cybercom has not been confirmed and being joined by democrat ron wide and these positions are getting politicized and national security is being held hostage and so it's really slowing down the ability of the pentagon to do business and be able to stave off these increasing threats >> what's also interesting is the survey that the reagan defense forum did this year and annual survey for the past five years and found one of the more surprising findings and found that 59% of americans still support funding military aid to ukraine and you don't hear that in washington. this was a very scientific survey, and it just shows that americaamericans explained 40 ys after and explain what had they get by supporting democracies willing to fight autogreats and providing military aid and weapons to protect freedom, they're in support of that and that message needs to be heard in washington. trey: before i let you go, i have to comment on that point you made, the middle east divert as lot of attention and i understand that. but there's still a war in eastern europe and ukraine trying to repel what most of us call an invasion. is your judgment the u.s. will continue to help ukraine? >> i think that the majority in congress, i think if you ask congressional leaders on the armed services committees, on intel committees, they want to support ewe vain and they're even the house speaker and you've heard mike johnson say he plans to support ukraine and the money needs to start flowing and the aid needs to continue if ukraine stands a chance against russia. >> the income basketball jennifer griffin and thank you for joining us on a sunday and look guard to our next visit. >> thank you, trey. trey: coming up, hunter biden will come to cap holohill but there's a catch and do u.s. surveillance programs work and should they be reauthorized and john lee rat cliff joins us next on as a way to say thank you this holiday season, bass pro shops and cabela's club members save even more while supporting conservation during club member mondays. for the first time ever, club 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[ laughs ] mara, your parents are -- exactly like me? i know, right? well, cherish your friends and loved ones. let's roll, daddio! let's boogie-woogie! trey: welcome back to sunday night in america. hunter biden under indictment and criminal investigation and criminal investigation so one might think he would decline an invitation from house republicans to come testify. biden's attorney abby lowell said biden will come for a public hearing but will not sit for a private deposition. why would someone be willing to chance a public hearing but not a private interview? i think i know. there's also growing attention on the reauthorization of what's become a continuevert whys surveillance program and a prop problem with the program or those administering the program? former director of national intelligence john lee ratcliffe. welcome. biden was a public hearing and the house was a private deposition. tell us the difference between everything. >> well, trey, there's a big difference. you and i both now from experience which goes a long way in tieing hunter biden's activities to joe biden in a sniff nerve nucleus near yous or spect cal and done live on national television and members use time to grand stand and witnesses know they only need to stall the clock or bob and weave and not make admissions for a five minute period of time and clock stops and new witness starts all over. you or myself or other members might have as long as an hour to cross examine a witness, confront them with their conflicting statements or corroborating evidence to the things they've done and that's in the case of hunter biden what's really necessary and one transaction alleged here is hunter biden is official with associations with the chinese communist party received $5 million into a corporation and hunter took 4,000 and transfers to his own corporation and took $150,000 and transferred to joe biden's brother james biden is wife sarah and then sarah biden then transferred $40,000 to now president joe biden. >> going through and confronting him takes time and deposition is the only way to get to the truth. trey: you were part of almost every high profile hearing i can remember and you were a trial attorney doing death penalty cases before yocking to congress, would you rather have five hours or five minutes. >> trey, our investigation when you and i were on the committee together into cross fire hurricane, more appropriately known now as the russia collusion hoax. as a result of our ability to have hours questioning witnesses like jim combmy, peter stroup, lisa page and all of those folks ultimately every single single fbi and doj official involved in league issue of surveillance tools and a fake dossier created bay political opponent against the trump campaign resulted in each one of those people being terminated or resigning in disgrace from the fbi or department of justice, that only took place, trey, because of the depositions that we took over the course of hours. none happened because of any five minute questioning by any member of congress. no one is that skilled to be able to get those kind of admissions under oath in that short period of time. trey: all right, before i let you go, you mentioned surveillance programs. do you think they should be reauthorized and should they be reauthorized with significant reforms in >> i do. look, i was as you know before congress this week briefing the house intelligence and judiciary republicans on this very issue, the problem they're wrestling with, trey, is it's just as we talked about with cross fire hurricane and other instances where the fbi, the department of justice, the cia, others have piceoused these national security tools, but as dni, i use the same tools to brief the president of the united states on threats from china, iran, russia, mexican cartels, and to give him an accurate threat picture and to keep americans safe as commander in chief. they absolutely must reauthorize section 702 but they should do so with the kind of reforms and department of justice and intelligence community from misusing in the past. trey: foreman dni and u.s. attorney and great state of texas john lee ratcliffe, thank you for joining us on a sunday night. >> great to see you. trey: coming up, we'll break down the newsom desantis debate as democrats began to worry that president biden might be the only person who thinks the economy is doing well on infections and flu, rsv and pneumonia also on the rise. trey: welcome back to sunday night in america. it's good when governors with different views debate. there may have been ultimately tearier motives for -- ulterior motives for ron desantis and gavin newsom to get together and should be a debate on what government is do and should do or state or feds or local government or you, our country is in great conflict right now. conflict which may be unsustainable. conflict might be good for business and reward those that make money off fear and anger, but it is not good for you. or the country. contrast is what we need. tell us what you believe and why you believe it and let us decide who has the better vision for the country. part of the debate was about the economy and president biden proudly call it is bidenomics, but the numbers don't look great for that as a winning issue, not right now at least. to be fair, are republicans wise to telehealthcare without a clear vision on what they'd change and how. >> leslie, everybody expects me to show my favoritism to charlie hurt and i'll trick him and start with you. people saw a pretty vibrant governor with decent hair and is that going to help democrats while they're questioning whether the current candidate, current president is too hold to run? >> i don't think the debate changes the needle on anything and argument that hillary won three out of three with tram and certainly with john kerry and bush back in the day and neither kerry or clinton were president. and neither, i think gavin newsom was spot on when he said one thing we have in common is neither of us will be the 2024 nominee. i think that not only to be true, but the numbers show that to be true. look, i woke up this morning and said i know what i'm going to say and know what chaily will say, love you, charlie, but desantis kicked newsom's butt and all over twitter and republicans going i don't like california or gavin newsom but i understand why californians like him, wow. gavin newsom isn't running and ron desantis is. when you look at numbers even had miz own state as my governor pointed out, he's not doing well and this. trey: charlie, you're moderating a debate between two leading political figures and what's your role of government contrasted withture and have the community and individual. what would you ask if you were -- in you had the nation's attention and two leading political characters, where would you go? >> well, i think that's a great question. i think i would prone start with immigration to answer your question. i thought the questions that sean hannity asked were perfect questions. they were great questions and they were about the issues that people care most about. they were about crime, they were about taxes, they were about illegal immigration. all of that stuff is fantastic. but what i thought was so fascinating about it, and leslie's right, i do think that ron desantis did a better job, but the reason i think he did a getter job is because he was talking about the issues. >> he was answering -- talking about his philosophy about governing, you know, a red state compared to a blue state. weather i thought was so interesting is the degree that gavin newsom strained himself to never talk about any of the issues w. he did talk about the issues, literally shawn hannity would put a smart and hing facts about crime or immigration or californians fleeing the state and he was trying to score cheap points off ron desantis instead of actually defending his phi