[laughs] but i do it all the time, sorry. That does it for us tonight. Well see again on monday, provided i still have a job. Now is time for the last word with lawrence odonnell. Good evening, lawrence. Good evening, rachel. And who needs commercials . Come on. The audience is very grateful for that move. Rachel, i listened to your interview with Attorney GeneralKeith Ellison, who managed the prosecution of Derek Chauvin. So fascinating to hear his perspective on it. He of course among many other things, really great moves, hired the dream team of special prosecutors. He brought two attorneys out of private practice to prosecute this case. The lead prosecutors. Theyre going to join us in this hour. But they wouldnt have been there. They would have been in that courtroom without Keith Ellison calling the police and putting them in that courtroom. Yeah, and to have had not only the conviction, but to have had this landmark sentence today i mean that number is going to mean Something Different to everybody whos looking at it. To have the judge conclude that on a 12 and a half year presumptive sentence under minnesota guidelines, a full decade higher than that, foreign officer. When so few officers are charged, let alone convicted, let alone sentence to anything other than negligible time, really was a historic thing today. Rachel, at the end of the hour, we have something special. Jane richard, The Little Girl who grew up, is growing up in the neighborhood where i grew up in boston, she was seven years old when she lost her leg in the Boston Marathon bombing. Her brother, martin, standing beside her was killed. Her mother was injured. Her father was injured. They were all there as a family watching them marathon. Jane, tonight, stood up in fenway park, saying the National Anthem and i cant even talk about it now, rachel. Its so moving and were going to show that at the end of the hour. Its a special night for us. Im already falling apart thinking about it. So, youve already effect to me. I should not have mentioned it until the kind comes. Because its going to be hard for me to compose myself for that. But thank you, rachel. And its time for you to go fishing. Its friday night. Do you want me to tell you a quick dad joke to help you reset emotionally . Please, please. Okay, whats the best thing about switzerland . The mountains . I dont know. But the flag is a big plus. [laughs] come on, that helped write . That did it. That did it. Your weekend starts now,. Rachel thank you, lawrence. Thank you. Well the breaking news for a defendant trump tonight. Donald trumps Criminal Defense Lawyer told nbc news that he expects the Manhattan District Attorney to file criminal charges next week. The Manhattan District Attorneys office is expected to hit Donald Trumps company with criminal charges as soon as next week. Multiple people familiar with the matter tell nbc news. The New York Times reports that both the Trump Organization and its chief financial officer, Allen Weisselberg, could face criminal charges. The times reports the Manhattan District Attorneys office has informed donald j trumps lawyers that is considering criminal charges against his family business, the Trump Organization, in connection with Fringe Benefits the Company Awarded a Top Executive according to several people with knowledge of the matter. If the caves moves ahead, the District Attorney cyrus r. Vance jr. Could announce charges against the Trump Organization and the executives. [inaudible] the prosecutor looking into whether [inaudible] representing Donald Trump Tells nbc news in a statement, it looks like they are going to come down with charges against the company and that is completely outrageous. Ive been practicing for over 50 years and ive never seen a case like this where they would indict or charge an individual or company, on tax evasion, for using a company car or company apartment. And then tie it to the company that he is working for, without any evidence that what he did benefited the company. They are doing this just to get back at donald trump. They could not get a little weisselberg to cooperate and tell them what they wanted to hear. And that is why they are going to the for these charges and they could not get him to cooperate because he would not say that donald trump had knowledge, or any information that he may have have been not detecting properly the use of cars or an apartment. Rod frechette he also told nbc news that the Trump Organization lawyers met with cy vance is off his yesterday, and try to persuade the Manhattan District Attorneys office not to go forward with charges. Quote, we met with prosecutors on thursday, and i asked for the meetings with side vance. And he agreed that we need. There were a number of prosecutors and our lawyers. We try to persuade them that they should not go forward with these charges because they are miniscule, and do affect any of Donald Trumps companies. Miniscule. Free rent in New York City and private School Tuition in New York City, it easily be worth millions of dollars. The New York Times reports that at least one representative of the new York AttorneyGenerals Office also attended the meeting with Trump Lawyers. The office of new York State Attorney general Letitia James is conducting a civil inquiry into some of the same issues the District Attorneys office is examining. But they joins advances criminal investigation in recent weeks. Donald trumps criminal lawyer, rod foreshadow, told nbc news, the legal steps that he expects to be taking next week. Quote, the Corporate Office will plead not guilty and we will make an immediate motion to dismiss the case against the cooperation. Mr. Trump is outraged that they are still going after him, by going after his company where he has loyal employees for decades. On sunday, Allen Weisselbergs former daughterinlaw, jennifer weisselberg, who is cooperating with tsai vance investigation, said this on and msnbc about Allen Weisselberg. Hes blindly loyal. He doesnt have the same moral compass, i think, that i do. Where you tell the truth. He stayed blindly loyal to, not just donalds business, but his practices in the way he treats people. The way he is willing to destroy people that are in silent. Just in the way he is. They are morally, they have the same moral compass, the same integrity. But he has always been blindly loyal to donald. I also think its about control. Allen is a control freak. I think once things start to get messy and people are flipping or flopping, that scares him. So, hes just going to stay diligent and stay the course, keep going to work. And hold out. Joining us now for this discussion, daniel goldman, former federal prosecutor. Daniel alonso, former assistant da in manhattan. And david cay johnston, pulitzer prizewinning reporter. Dan alonso, let me begin with you since this is your old office at work here. You wouldve been in this meeting if you are at your older job at the das office. This week, what do you make of what nbc news has learned today . You have Donald Trumps lawyer saying we expect to be charged next week. The company will plead not guilty. He will ask for dismissal. Hes already to go to court next week. Well we should take donald Trump Lawyers at their word and Rod Frechette He is a very good lawyer. Ive actually tried cases against him. So, hes obviously correct. They are going to charge these entities. Its unclear from the recording whether theyre going to charge weisselberg. The official he says they are. So it sounds to me, if they really are focusing only on the perks, that is a real case. But it is not the main case that we have heard is being prepared all of these months. It doesnt mean such a case will come down the road, but it means that right now they are focusing on the failure by while sober to pay taxes on fringe and suffolks that are taxable. And the companys complicity in that would be an alleged fraud. So, it looks like theyre going to indict a corporation, which is obviously authorized under new look your law. And this weisselberg sounds like they called his bluff. It sounds like hes not cooperating, and theyre charging him. And i would say without prejudice to charge more stuff down the road. Daniel goldman, what do you make of this news . I dont doubt at all what rod for charity is saying about the indictments next week is true. I also did a trial against ron, who is an oldtime New York City lawyer. Very good. [inaudible] to indict a company basically on that conduct as dan alonso knows very well, because he wrote the memo for the manhattan das office. In order to indict a corporation, you need to show persistent and pervasive conduct. And im guessing theres more than these Fringe Benefits. But lawrence, lets underscore how serious an indictment is for a corporation. Particularly like the Trump Organization. If a corporation is indicted, you can expect all of its lenders to call their loans. Meaning they want to be paid back, because banks do not, and in some cases cannot, deal with indicted corporations. So, they will try to call their loans. The Trump Organization, of course, has we more debt than they have equity. Meaning that they cannot repay all of their loans right now. And that lee could lead ultimately to bankruptcy. So, this is incredibly serious discussion about charging the Trump Organization. David if this is about these Fringe Benefits that Allen Weisselberg gets for free, or his kids get for free, free apartment in New York City can easily be a quarter of 1 Million Dollars a year. That adds up pretty quickly, private School Tuition, New York City, 60,000 a year. How many kids are we talking about . This number is not miniscule to anyone not named trump. But theres two ends of this. The company presumably is deducting those expenses as some kind of Business Expense because there is really no other way the company can book those expenses. The recipient owes income tax on it and does not paying income tax on it. Is that basically the shape of this . It may not be in the case of the Trump Organization. Donald trump by his own town often has far more Tax Deductions and he can make use of. We dont know how to be accounted for. Its also very central here. Ron jean besser sell the press on the most minimal view of this case. The lakes dont come from prosecutors. They never come from ground to erie prosecutors. Theyre all from the other side or People Associated with the other side one way or another. Trying to shape the news and public perceptions. Its simple to assume iran for shady has significantly narrowed the scope of what he learned in that meeting yesterday that went on for 90 minutes. Donalds books and records could be completely fraudulent. Donald in the past has been known to produce completely fraudulent records. You do this with a 1984 tax return where his own lawyer testified against him. And said the tax return was a forgery. Business records violations and new york are 25 year felony if i remember correctly. 25 year felony. Its a serious matter. This is probably more than that as described by run for shoddy. What but you expect us to see next week based on what we think we know tonight . Im basing are not just on mr. Statement. It was on a statement. But also reporting from the New York Times and nbc news it sounds like they have it from multiple sources that they are going to go forward with things surrounding the Fringe Benefits and you are right lawrence it is a not in significant amount of money. Its not the case of the century because even if you have over 1 Million Dollars in undeclared income still under new york law going to be 100,000 plus in taxes that werent paid. Its not an enormous tax loss. With that said, its a taxpayer financed fringe benefit. It is serious enough to prosecute, and there is as dan goldman pointed, up this policy that i issued on behalf of the da many years ago where there is a whole series of factors. Some of those factors are with the company cooperating, whether they self reported. Could they get low marks on that . One factor is collateral consequences. Dan mentioned perhaps the company would go into bankruptcy. I think prosecutors have considered that quite carefully as well. Considered that quite carefull as well. I am skeptical whether they will call the loans because the banks want to be repaid and if the loans are performing and they call them they arent going to have their money so im not sure its so clear banks will call loans because of an indictment. Particularly one that is narrowly drawn, as i expect this one to be. Again we wont know until next week. Dan, well the federal prosecutors in the Southern District of new york be kind of looking over the shoulder at this and wondering, look, if there are Tax Violations within New York State law, that might translate into federal Tax Violations . I dont think so, lawrence. The reason as the Southern District had an investigation into the Trump Organization. And appears to have closed it perhaps turning over some of their materials or perhaps not to the manhattan das office. I think the Southern District for whatever reason is out of this game and is out of this investigation. And some, ways thats a shame. Because the conduct that we are talking about, the federal penalties are much more severe than the state penalties. I think a federal rico charges much more obtainable than the equivalent little rico in New York State. Certainly some of the fraud as dan said the tax fraud and maybe perhaps some of the other fraudulent activity would be punished much more harshly. The reason why that matters i think is that Ellen Weisselberg is playing a game of chicken here and he is saying i dont think you have anything on me thats going to put me in jail. Perhaps for anytime. And certainly not for a long time. So, im going to state loyal to my guy, donald trump. Im not going to cooperate. That may be very different if he were facing five, eight, ten years. Daniel goldman, daniel alonso, and david cay johnston, thank you all very much for starting us off tonight. 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