first major hurdle as house speaker, with the help of democrats. but what's next for the new speaker as he kicks the can to fund the government till next year? as the 11th hour gets underway on this tuesday night. good evening once again. i am stephanie ruhle. live from msnbc headquarters and 30 rockefeller center. we start this evening in the state of georgia, where fulton county district attorney fani willis is taking action after videos of witness testimony were leaked in her election interference case. willis filed for an emergency protective order, saying the release is clearly intended to intimidate witnesses. she's also denied the release came from her office. >> can you say definitively to this audience and the internet audience that it was not your office but make those videos? >> it was absolutely not my office. i want to get open records, requests we have for that -- >> from us. >> yes, for you and every other outlet. we are not going to release information. >> a hearing on the order is set for tomorrow afternoon. the videos show in interviews with former trump attorneys jenna ellis, sydney powell, and keith kenneth chesebro. they have not been independently obtained by the news. senior trump aide dance could be no told her that trump didn't care about the election results, saying, quote, we are not going to leave. chesebro told prosecutors he talked to trump during a meeting about the, quote, alternate electors scheme in key battleground states, and here's part of what sydney powell had to say. >> with powell, were you ever around when someone, anyone, told donald trump he lost the election? >> oh, yeah. >> who? >> pat cipollone, eric herschmann, derek lions, all thought he had lost. >> was that at the meeting? >> yes. >> what was president trump's reaction when he faced this kadri advisers would say we lost? >> it was like, well, they would say that and then they would walk out. and he would say see, this is what i deal with all the time. >> in a statement to nbc news, a trump lawyer said the following. any purported private conversation is absolutely meaningless. they all argue that the only thing that matters is that trump did leave the white house. meanwhile we've got a better idea of just how long this trial could end up taking. >> there will be a trial. i believe the trial will take many months. and i don't expect that we will conclude until the winter or the very early part of 2025. i don't, when making decisions about cases to bring, consider an election cycle or an election season. it does not go in the calculus. what goes in the calculus is, this is the law, these are the facts, and if the facts show you violated the law, then charges are brought. >> with that, let's get smarter with the help of our leadoff panel tonight. katie benner joins us, pulitzer prize-winning justice reporting for the new york times. benji stolen is, here my old friend, watched and bureau chief for semafor, and harry litman, former u.s. attorney and former deputy assistant attorney general. he's also the host of the talking feds podcast, which this week i was lucky enough to be a guest. harry, can we start with the argument that trump's lawyers are making? doesn't matter what they said or did, because in the end trump left the white house. that's a theme argument to making the civil case. it doesn't matter if he misrepresented the value of his business to deutsche bank, deutsche bank didn't lose money. how do those arguments fly? >> not very well. i think they flop on the ground. how rich is that? first he says private conversations don't matter, so if trump says i want to do the coup, that would matter. a witness testified to. it that's absurd. but what he is saying is he left the white house, so the coup that he is been charged with assisting, wasn't successful. that's not a very good defense to the actual charge, that at the end of the day, by the skin of our teeth, or however, we actually were able to escape the catastrophe. that says nothing about the actual charges that he is going to have to answer for, which is what you tried to do. and yes, thank god he didn't succeed. but that's got nothing to do with his guilt or innocence. >> then what stands out to you about those videos, harry? >> you know, first of all, the videos are just what they have put in the can to make sure they have a version from each of these witnesses. i think you have gotten to the hind highlights, jenna ellis saying under no circumstances will we leave. both chesebro and powell really talking a fair bit with trump. the one little nugget from ellis, they were doing here at the time, there are things you could say, but that, i think, is incendiary. the other stuff is just solid and can be useful, but the whole context here, these are people who are gonna come forward and testify at trial, and there is a sort of visceral feeling to, wow, this is what it is going to look like when this former allies turn against him in a fulton county court of law. that, i think, as a kind of, really, bracing effect. >> katie, do these leaks hurt finally willis as she prepares for trial? >> they heard fani willis and a variety of ways, which is probably why she wants this protective order. when you think about what happened, she has distributed this information so she can defender clash to best of the remedy. when this information doesn't come comes out and it is a couple of things. the public begins to debate or information before she can presented at trial. and out of context the arguments that she would want to make in the courtroom. it also does, as she fears, or could have the effect of intimidating witnesses, which certainly you do not want when you're trying to get other people to come forward and perhaps take plead eels. so this is going to have a chilling effect on her ability to do that. and then of course the suspicion, as we saw from the wall street journal clip, that she herself would want to lead. it and also undercuts her own credibility if people don't believe that this did not come from her office. so, again, i think these other reasons why we are seeing her ask for a protective order, and seeing her make moves like no longer distributing these kinds of videos. she'll have people come to her office to watch them. >> benji, what's your take on trump's reaction to this league? on its surface humiliating for him, but he loves to put the crime right out there for everybody to see so he can go on offense. that's kind of his move. >> that's always the thing they say about trump. he says the quiet part out loud. there's always this unique trump angle on scandals, we are normally there is this, well, but cover-up is the crime. in trump's place he often says his intentions out loud and says there is nothing wrong with it and then let the chips fall in as people try to prove that there is something untoward about it. you think back to, for example, the famous perfect phone call, which we try to get ahead of in this first impeachment by just insisting, well we're just gonna put this out there, it's completely fine, if you see something wrong with, and that's ridiculous. even initially few republicans felt okay defending that. but a lot of people were very thrown by the idea that you just try to get out in front of this, say i have nothing to hide here, even if it's come out only after years of trying to suppress it, and just completely lean into it. i think that's what you would expect for from trump in this case. >> harry, if you were in fani willis's shoes, how would you react to this league, and how concerned would you be about witness intimidation? as a whole lot of other people that they would like to get to cooperate. >> that's true. but look, they had asked for a protective order and the judge, judge mcafee, hadn't addressed it. i don't think the defendants did anything wrong. i do thing think that katie's points are well taken, although we're gonna see this argument at 1:00 tomorrow, because david schaffer and trump tomorrow have, i'm going to proffer a less restrictive order and they are going to say, you know, this isn't necessarily meant, as she says very clearly in her motion, to intimidate witnesses. i think it is meant to show, to show somebody side that they won. it wouldn't automatically follow that you would have the protective order. and i think mcafee will enter something. but when you think about what trump is doing, east west north and south, to vilify and savaged for witnesses, this seems like pretty pale beer. >> now let's talk about what it could do the other witnesses, katie. these leaked videos could have an impact on other defendants who are thinking about taking a plea deal. but they don't want to be out there like this. >> they don't want to be out there like this, and also it would give other defendants and idea, an inkling of what people are saying about them. they can actually start defending against comments that someone like ken chesebro or sidney powell has made. they can come up with excuses for why they made those comments. they could create a defense or an information. in other circumstances would not. have it hurts fani willis. when she wants to do is get people into a room and asking questions. if they already know the answers that she is aware of, they'll have an easier time, i think, trying to defend themselves. >> benji, let's talk about the big shocker we heard just a few minutes ago. fani willis saying this trial could go into early 2025. obviously past election day. what does that mean for trump? music to his ears? >> in general trump's strategy in pretty much every one of these cases has been to try to delay, delay, delay, push it is far down the line is fossil, hopefully something will happen in his favor by then. he could win the public to his side. in his side he is the most unusual legal strategy of all, which is he could win the presidency, which would make some of these cases unlikely to come forward and the federal cases he could potentially pardon himself ordered you jade to drop them. it's a very unusual case. so probably anything happens later he likes. having said that, it would create an insane situation if we have a presidential election where the presidents potentially on trial as the election is heating up and reaching its peak, and it's unresolved, for trying to overturn the previous election. we are so far off the map politically at that point. it's hard to even know what keys to adhere to. >> at that point, we are so far from normal right now. the republican front runner with 91 charges stand against him and the number two republican is a mile behind him. we left normal, what was, it six years ago? harry, is this timeline fantastic for trump? does it mean his whole plan of delay is working? >> if it holds. i found it starting as well, stephanie. she said this could be a four -month trial. but there is now only one trial to set. we think mcafee is going to maybe set it early next month. why do we now have 16 months from there? if she including appeals? is she just trying to dampen expectations? we think it will be a long trial, but she's obviously contemplating that there are going to be a lot of delays until it starts. i would have thought, and this has always seemed very complicated trial and a bit of a gamble to make it by november 2024. but man, she is really projecting that this is going to be longer than i think most people have considered, when all that has to happen now is a trial date beset. there's only gonna be one trial. so that really struck me. >> katie, to harry's point, months and mounts strike lots of people. and lot of people say this georgia case has the clearest evidence against trump. so at this point does it look like this will be the last of these cases to finish at trial? >> i don't know if we'll be in the last, because the florida documents case is going to take quite a long, time figuring out the classified information issues and people can start exchanging information. and the very sixth case is not clear that's going to move as quickly as some people who do not want trump to be president would like. but what is interesting, and again, that this is a case where we're going to see a campaign intersect with pressure on trump in a courtroom. we haven't really seen anything like this before, but what we will see is a trump starting to show some of his true colors that we would only get in glimpses. we see articles about him imposing martial law, about taking people and civil service, putting in people who will only follow his orders no matter what, daniel consider to shun. we're gonna start seeing some of this more erratic side of trump, they will come out during some of these trials. we've only seen it to some degree, with his behavior in a civil trial in new york. that's gonna be happening in the heat of the election. as we go in to november. it is unclear how republicans are going to respond to that sort of full picture of what donald trump is going to act like when he is under this much pressure in competing criminal trials. >> benjy, since you have thoughts about things being abnormal next year, let's talk about where we are right now because right now donald trump ramping up some disturbing and dangerous rhetoric, calling his opponents vermin, just one example. are things only going to get worse from here? >> absolutely. [laughter] but this is par for the course for trump. he's made similar comparisons, dehumanizing opponents, and just like in this instance, in those instances, people often bought up that this was rhetoric associated with fascism and dictators and horrible's atrocities, historically. what is interesting about this instance, this is the first time are starting to see this is in a general election context. we know the republican primaries this plays very well. voters who are not plugged into those republican primaries have not really been paying attention to trump the same way in the last year. we are only now starting to see biden, biden's campaign, for example, really trying to make an issue out of these comments and try to really pressure, for example, the news media into giving them a lot more coverage, even though trump says incendiary things all the time. there is nothing new about these. but these things broke through and partly because of that and forced the trump campaign to respond in a serious way, in a way they have not before. i do think that is something to watch going forward. how this plays in a general election environment as opposed to these republican primaries where trump is cleaning up. >> and now we cover how we cover donald trump is a complicated thing when we cover everything he says, people get furious that we're giving him too much of a platform and hanging on every word, and when we don't, and he says awful incendiary things, well the problem is, the american people aren't seeing it or hearing it, and it's dangerous. benjy sarlin, harry litman, katie benner, thank you for starting us off tonight. when we come back, every day families of hostages that are still in gaza are pleading for any news of their loved ones as israel's military says it is now carrying out a targeted operation against hamas in gaza 's largest hospital. jonathan greenblatt is here on all of it. and later, the new speaker gets a big hand from democrats to avoid a shutdown. jason johnston and reed galen breakdown mike johnson's chances of surviving the speakership. the 11th hour just getting underway on tuesday night. you want to be able to provide your child with the tools or resources they need. with reliable internet at home, through the internet essentials program, the world opened up. fellas, fellas. that's how my son was able to find the hidden genius project. we wanted to give y'all the necessary skills to compete with the future. kevin's now part of this next generation of young people who feel they can thrive. ♪ ♪ >> just hours ago the idf announced it was, quote, carrying out a parasite and targeted operation against hamas in a specified area the al-shifa hospital. meanwhile tens of thousands of people gathered in washington, d. c. today to demand the release of hostages and condemn antisemitism around the world. there are still over 200 hostages being held by hamas. lester holt spoke to some of their families. >> i feel like kidnapped is not the right world. it's so much worse than that. when our son is dancing at a music festival, has his arm blown off, and is taken, all of us, together, our children, our loved ones, are american citizens who are wrongfully taken from where they were and for 39 days have been somewhere in gaza. >> their kidnapped loved ones our neighbors, loved, ones and fathers, even a three year old girl. >> my name is lewis herschmann of charlie, and i'm the grand aunt of abigail norrie don, and she is three years old, and she was objected from her kibbutz after her parents with a both muddled. >> three year old abigail saw her mother killed, than her father as well. >> abigail was in her father's arms. and if they ran a terrorist shot him and killed him and he fell on to abigail. >> abigail, six and ten -year-old sibling somehow got away. they saw her hiding under their dad and then -- >> abigail who crawled out from under her father's body. and full of his blood, went to a neighbor, and they took her in. >> later, abigail and the neighbors were kidnapped. >> the last thing we learned was that somebody saw a terrorist taking this mother, her two kids, and abigail out of the kibbutz. >> when you look around at this group, what do you feel? >> i think that what is driving all of us is a sense of hope. >> all of us have our own families, but now we have a new family. this is my new family. >> this new family, now on a mission in washington, including a meeting at the white house. >> can you give us an idea what was shared with you? >> i can say this, and i think speaking for all of us, we are extraordinarily grateful to the biden administration as a whole for taking what is clearly such a keen interest, not just in our own loved ones but in all of the approximately 240 hostages that were taken that day. not >> with us for more, jonathan greenblatt, ceo and national director of the anti-defamation league. he wrote the book, it could happen here, why america is tipping from hate to the unthinkable, and how we can stop it. jonathan, tell us about the march today. it was about your very book, how we can stop it. >> yeah. the march today was unlike anything that i have ever been involved with. the only thing that i would adjust, it wasn't tens of thousands of people, it was hundreds of thousands. the reports that i heard tonight were upwards of 300,000 people on the mall. and you had folks that came in, jews and non-jews, from all political parties, from all corners of the country, and at least the jewish people from all different levels of observance it was a multi ethnic, multi racial crowd. but they had american flags, and israeli flags. they saying the national anthem and is the israeli national anthem. and it was full of light and hope and joy. and so even in this moment of heartbreak, to see that opening, stephanie, to see those hostage families interviewed, it absolutely breaks your heart. this was a moment of joy that i think all of us really needed. >> when you talk about all these people coming together, that means republicans and democrats. it is very rare that we see bipartisanship today. how did that come together. >> it's really extraordinary. you have mike johnson and hakeem jeffries and chuck schumer all holding hands with joni ernst on the stage. i've never seen that before. i don't know if we'll see it again. and we had people in the crowd, some with maga hats, i saw them, read, make america great again hats, and then other people who were clearly with lgbtq pride flags, with jewish stars