in washington, d.c. are dealing with a very important question. trying to decide what price should be paid for telling lies that throwed a violent insurrection. eroing the fabric of america and through no fault of their own became subjects of a conspiracy theory. rudy giuliani's defamation trial sued by ruby freeman and her daughter shaye moss. the judge ruled giuliani defamed freeman and moss, now deciding how much giuliani will pay. started with the expectation he made himself that giuliani would testify on his own behalf. he vow yesterday to "give the whole story" in a bit of a dramatic press conference. once he conceded, the trial went to arguments. when that happened, the lawyer asked the jury to award them $24 million each. gottlieb said giuliani "has no right to offer civil servants up to a mob to win a general election." very true. emotional testimony by ruby freeman yesterday. over the course of 90 minutes freeman recounted how she was hounded by death threats, messages calling for her to be lynched. so bad the fbi told her she was not safe as home. she said yesterday, started by one post by giuliani on december 3, 2020 that claimed to show footage of ruby freeman and her daughter pulling suitcases stuffed with ballots. of course, it showed no such thing. in closing arguments giuliani's attorney acknowledged his client "committed wrongful conduct." explaining that he didn't take the stand, because "we feel like these women have been through enough." if you believe in a explanation after the hell rudy giuliani put these two women through, you haven't been probably paying attention enough to everything that's happened the last couple years. on tuesday the judge said giuliani defamed freeman and moss once again speaking to reporters outside court, and accused them of changing votes. the very same allegation that led to this case in the first place. his lawyer also said that his client "hasn't exactly helped himself with some of the things that have happened in the last few days." no kidding. referring, of course, to giuliani's behave outside of the courthouse earlier yesterday. it is definitely true unquestionably. what a thing for your own lawyer to admit about you. where we start this hour with nbc news justice reporter ryan reilly outside the courthouse, plus former deputy assistant attorney general and former u.s. attorney harry litman and senior columnist for the "boston globe" and co-host of excellent in sisters podcast. you've been in the courthouse, walk us through, what happened in the court today? >> reporter: yes. all sort of expecting this big day of rudy giuliani's testimony, because he's been telling us this big day was coming. his lawyer told the jury he was grog to testify and then he told reporters he would testify. the truth would come out. brought back up before the judge. the truth he's spreading a lie. what this case is all about. but he still believes the lows, and that's where the divide comes about between his lawyer and the client himself. rudy giuliani's lawyer i think had trouble controlling what his client was saying this week, obviously. making statements after court each day. that contrasted with what his attorney was trying to say in court. you sort of mentioned there, his lawyer has actually been saying complementary things about the plaintiffs. good people. didn't deserve what happened to them and rudy giuliani did wrong here. basically his lawyer was trying to argue the damage shouldn't be as high at plaintiffs are seeking trying to make that case to jurors. rudy giuliani is on a different planet thinking he didn't nothing wrong in the first place and the lies are true. an extraordinary event with a former mayor of new york city seems to be lost in conspiracy theories still today. >> rudy giuliani is on an entirely different planet is an evergreen statement could be said many times over the past couple years. harry, rudy saying all, making up all sorts of lies including about ruby and shaye moss. when you surprised? yesterday said he's testify. in his own press conference. were you surprised he didn't end up testifying today, harry? >> the short answer is, no. a lot of defendants bluster and giuliani is the king of blusterers, and then don't take the stand. this was his fourth visit to planet earth, and the contrast wean his public blustering, which he's still doing to this day, and his basically silence in court where he has nothing to say couldn't be stronger, and i'm sure the jury saw it as well. it's a civil case. so the -- the attorney for moss and freeman were able to say, look, he didn't testify. but you saw who did. and his lawyer has really nothing to go on. when your lawyer is saying, oh, he didn't help himself too much and these women have suffered enough. man, you know you are in a world of hurt, and that's exactly where he is now. >> what a thing for your lawyer to say about you. so, the big question now, harry, is, how much will they have to pay, and how does the jury decide that? how does the jury decide that? obviously we saw michael gottlieb, they're lawyer, ask for a specific amount. what does the jury weigh? >> it's not easy, because normally they would weigh something. would have had giuliani coming in with information about his, say, net worth. decide whether to punish him but stonewalled that all the way through. some points he made. they have something to go on. an expert who came forward and said here's what it will cost to sort of compensate them for the misery that giuliani has occasioned and saw their own testimony, but it's fairly loose. maybe giuliani hopes that it will be loose enough it will be revisited on appeal, if it's too high. again, if that's your hope, you're in a very sad situation. they have a little bit to go on in terms of expert testimony, testimony from the plaintiffs and basically nothing from giuliani. they pointed to, all they pointed to, his lawyer in closing statements by the plaintiffs. literally all he could point to. >> interesting to see where they kind of limit. i wanted to -- michael gottlieb is a powerful, had a powerful ending today in the courthouse. and while the defense strategy, he said, basically, the defense strategy in this case is no secret. rich, fou people have valuable repations and ordinary people are irrelevant, replaceable, worthless. mr. giuliani's defense is his reputation, his comfort and goals are more important that those of ruby freeman and shaye moss. that is fiction that ends today. so many watching completely frustrated and horrified by what we've seen here. it's like, yes! exactly. tell us a little about the stakes in this case and the outcome. >> stakes are very important, because it's not just that ruby, shaye moss and ruby freeman are ordinary citizens. they are people who volunteered to give their time to help the administration of the democratic process. there as election workers. these are people we want to encourage to participate in this, but because of the lies that rudy giuliani was telling, their lives have been turned utterly upside-down, and the valuation of the experts that were offered in this case puts that in the tens of millions of dollars that it would take to restore their reputations. in the beginning, rudy giuliani's attorneys were saying, look. of course, liability was already established, as you pointed out. this is about damages, and that a damage award so high would ruin giuliani. it would be ruinness for him. but we've seen him since double down on it. perhaps opened himself up to more liability. at this point, all his attorneys can do staunch the bleeding say, look, no mas. like, just -- try to understand that he did wrong, and, please show some mercy. so little standing. i expect a very high damages award. >> we will see. ryan, one of the kind of side stories today, a bit. giuliani's defendant false election case was in the courthouse today. harrison floyd facing charges trying to pressure rupee freeman. how could he have been in the courtroom? does that violate anything? what was that scene and what you may have observed? >> i don't think it actually would violate necessarily anything, unless something down in this case, but it's obviously a public court. he's allowed to come into it, yeah. a sort of bizarre spectacle. a note from the producer. jury had a question. the judge meeting with just before coming back into the courtroom. they want to see powerpoints the plaintiff's attorney put together laying out the damages and how they got to that estimate. it wasn't introduced they won't be able to provide the powerpoints, but the underlying information presented to the jury. taking a close look to see if they believe that estimate is on the target. >> an interesting development we just learned from ryan there. harry, what does that tell you? that they're asking for the powerpoints and kind of 9 justifications sounds like for the amount they're asking for? what does that tell you about the status in the courtroom? >> that they're being conscientious in filling in the gaps giuliani left them. that's all that they have to go on, and they want to see. is this rational? they're not just galloping ahead. is think any tloimt what we give? trying to take what they have, it's sort of a half a hand and do the best with it. a quick point on ryan. if giuliani had nothing here we can can expect something similar in the fulton county criminal trial. he really is sort of defenseless at this point, and he's very different in his public persona from what he has to say, which is next to nothing in court. >> so, harry, let me ask you just about harrison floyd as well. i just asked ryan about. he was there today as ryan said. a courtroom, he can be present there. many people could be. what do you make of his decision to show up there? >> well, you know, you would think normally it would have been coordinated with giuliani's folks but he is a particularly bizarre figure. right? the guy who said, yeah, put me in jail a few days. that's okay. the only one actually been in carserated, then violated conditions. just an oddball, and i think it's hard, with just that fact, to draw any conclusion at all. >> so let me come back to you. talking a little about the bigger picture here. as you mentioned, ruby freeman and shaye moss are just two of the many people who serve as election workers, who served to keep our democracy functioning, the subject of threats and intimidation. their journey is not done here. because they will, of course, be likely witnesses in the fulton county case. >> yes. >> which is very clear, of course, for good reason. what do you think this will do? what are you worried this will do? this case? even though they're victorious here and see what money and damages they're awarded, but what will it do to democracy and to people, to the efforts to kind of recruit more people to serve as election workers? >> i think their testimony will be very crucial. not just the fulton county case. mentioned in jack smith's prosecution as well. a core part of this. it's not just about the fact that he was, donald trump was trying to deny the results of an election. it's greater than that. it has an impact on the ongoing administration of justice. i think that's something both fani willis and jack smith will make clear. i can't imagine what ms. moss and ms. freeman have been going through, but the fact they have been willing to testify, willing to speak their truth about the importance of this is so important. i am grateful for them, but i do hope that they continue to take solace and have protection, because of what has, the incoming has been for them. that's precisely why we're here today and what this jury today is weighweighing. >> that justice still is served and the journey, through the wringer. >> harry, it's no secret rudy giuliani isn't exactly rolling in dough right now. so the question i have been wondering is, there's been a lot of money asked for. for good reason in terms damages. what happens if he can't pay the money? what's the process? >> that the "the" question i think i'm starting to realize is pertinent to rudy giuliani. he has to declare bankruptcy. probably after they run their appeals and he doesn't, hardly has money to pay a lawyer for appeals, for appearances, anyway, they file a separate motion to execute on the verdict and he just stonewalls and eventually says i don't have two dimes to rub together, and if he truly doesn't, they are out of luck. that really may be where we are going with rudy giuliani. it's hard to make any other sense of all of the things he's done, including repeatedly refusing to give any of his financial information in discovery in this trial as he was ordered to do. >> in terms of the carrying out of justice or justice winning out, i should say. fox news paid $287.5 million for broadcasting lies. giuliani will pay, we'll see how much asked to pay, how much he's able to pay. obviously the big line has a price. a good thing. where do you think, harry, go to you on this first, this falls? how do these lawsuits kind of impact fighting the big lie? is it an effective deterrent? are we seeing evidence of that? >> i think it is and i agree with kim here. could be blood from a stone principle with giuliani but i think people pay attention, and i think there's a kind of personal sense, even a criminal case, exacting retribution for society. carroll with donald trump, these two very human and victimized workers with rudy giuliani, when the justice system comes through on their behalf, i do think it strikes a broader blow that everybody takes some encouragement from. >> i, of course, undervalued fox news' money they had to pay. $787, of course, not $287. i saved them money by accident. >> for fox news, right. >> saved them some money. ryan, before we let you all go, what else are you waiting for or looking for from the courthouse today? >> you know, as we, this enters a new stage, talking rudy giuliani's money. a thing that came out in court recently he has a new media deal. right? no one's hiring rudy giuliani obviously for his sharp legal mind these days. wouldn't be able to, anyway because of various start is of a lawyer. a media personality at this point. interesting to figure out if they end up getting a significant damage here whether or not they're getting a chunk of that and whether or not ultimately might benefit from giuliani being a continued media personality. a bizarre situation we're in where obviously rudy's sort of at the tail end of his career here and isn't, doesn't have many financial resources available for these plaintiffs to access. >> a long way he's come since 20-plus years ago. thank you all for spending some time with us this afternoon. when we come back, from the gop playbook of rules for me not for thee, the lawmaker leading the charge to investigate president biden has similar business ties he's calling impeachable. talk about that and the party vote with congresswoman slatkin yes. former house speaker paul ryan. harsh words for the ex-president party front-runner out, same time defending the few gop that lost their careers for speaking out. we'll show thaw. you that. and trump and unindicted co-spiriters tried really, really hard to conceal. all of that when "deadline: white house" continues. don't go anywhere. what did you get us? [ chuckling ] with the click of a pen, you can a new volkswagen at the sign, then drive event. sign today and you're off in a new volkswagen during the sign, then drive event. with the freestyle libre 2 system know your glucose level and where it's headed without fingersticks. manage your diabetes with more confidence and lower your a1c. it's covered by medicare for those who qualify. ask your doctor about the freestyle libre 2 system. hey, grab more delectables. ask your doctor about the you know, that lickable cat treat? de-lick-able delectables? yes, just hurry. hmm. it must be delicious. delectables lickable treat. that first time you take a step back. i made that. with your very own online store. i sold that. and you can manage it all in one place. i built this. and it was easy, with a partner that puts you first. godaddy. the biden family had 20 shell companies that the sole purpose, it appears, for those shell companies to launder money through six different banks and the banks called it money laundering in the is a suspicious activity reports. >> $24 million the bidens have taken in. run him through a series of llcs even the boonk said served no purposes. we call that a shell company. a company that doesn't pru good, service, has any assets or anything like that and then laundered money down to the biden family members. >> well, as it turns out that might be your classic case of projection. congressman james comber, the guy you just saw there, chairman of the house oversight committee for months accused hunter biden and other biden family members involved in "shady business" he calls it is under scrutiny for having his own shell company. functions in a similar way as the company used by bidens. new insights to comer's deal open comes after opening an impeachment inquiry into president biden. along party lines all 221 republicans voting yes. despite the vote republicans have yet to show any evidence, not a shred, ofs in conduct from their investigation. chuck grassley leading the investigation into hunter biden on the senate side had to say about it. >> i'm going to just follow the facts where they are, and the facts haven't taken me to that point where i can say that the president's guilty of anything. >> joining me now at the table, democratic congresswoman elissa slotkin of michigan, member of the house armed services committee as well as a candidate for the u.s. senate. congresswoman, thank you for joining me. i just have to start with congressman comer. busy saying a lot, but seemed -- definitely ringleader in this circus, but what do you make of the recent reporting? a little hypocrisy there? >> look, first of all sloppy, right? going to be attacking someone and then you find that you yourself are doing the same thing, like -- clean your story up here, but i think it's part and parcel a bigger, the bigger story, which is this is meant to distract. meant to talk about biden and legal issues instead of trump and legal issues and the republicans are saying that. you have people like senator grassley saying i'm not seeing the facts. then others like trenknell get donald trump back, baby. the reason we're doing this. we need to believe them when they say that and just sad to see every one of my republican colleagues vote in support of that impeachment inquiry. it's just, again, deeply disappointing. >> some of these tactics reminds me, you spend so much time in the national security space. i spent time in it. that typical putinesque, muddy the waters. everybody's corrupt. all of this is bad, to kind of make it a little better. for them. for the corrupt one. you mention, it's been months, years, that ever since biden was elected that some of these, some republicans, not all, marjorie taylor greene an early originator, calling for impeachment. as you noted republican voted for it in a straight party line vote. why now? >> i think it's, again, part of a bigger story going on in our country, which is there are a lot of people on the republican side of the aisle who know that this is nothing. who know that like grassley there's no facts there. they know this is all part of playing field to donald trump. scared of not being re-elected. it's not rocket science. it's a sad story. because it's an american story. not just they're the other side i don't care what they do. as an american i believe in two strong, healthy parties that push and pull and make policy and law better, and that's just not what we have. we have an other side of the aisle doing anything to get re-elected.