so, i want to start with a story that in any other universe would have absolutely nothing to do with politics or anything even approximating controversy. the kind of news we used to read and hear and accept. but post trump, this has become a sort of conservative litmus test with potentially disastrous consequences for the health and the well being of thousands and thousands of americans. i'm talking bird flu. i know. stay with me. you may have seen the u.s. is dealing with an outbreak of bird flu. bird flu has spread to at least 80 cattle herds over five states. because of that outbreak, the fda, the food and drug administration has issued guidance for how to stay safe and avoid exposure including warning americans against drinking raw milk. that is because raw milk has the potential to spread animal born diseases from one to another. don't drink raw milk. this is not controversial unless you are a conservative who follows the influential pro trump youth organization turning points usa. >> milk is good for you. but here is what the american dairy farmer association or whatever is going to tell you is that pasteurized milk crap, you might as well be drinking water. it is not even healthy. ideally, you need to drink raw milk. >> that was alex clark. a turning point usa host and one of the chief proponents of drinking raw milk. miss clark even tells her followers to drink raw milk while pregnant. something that you absolutely should not do under any circumstances. and in response to the fda's warning about drinking raw milk during a bird flu outbreak, alex clark told her nearly 200,000 followers on social media, f the fda. legalize raw milk. this issue so animates conservatives that turning point usa is telling $35 tee shirts on their website promoting raw milk. now if this seems like an echo of the anti-vax, anti-fauci movement embraced by a ton of conservatives and put a lot of this country at risk, well, that is because it is. it is precisely the kind of extreme own the libs reality be position of turning point usa. in recent years, kirk and his organization have become more outspoken about their most extreme beliefs including kirk's full throated embrace of christian nationalism. in addition to running what appears to be raw milk propaganda outfit, charlie kirk is a supporter of something known as the seven mountains mandate. a philosophy that calling for conservative christians to take over the government and kirk has started speaking openly about how he wants donald trump to be the champion of this cause. >> finally, we have a president that understands the seven mountains of cultural influence. finally we have a president that understands the significance of standing, yes in solidarity with the grass roots activists of our country. >> across the republican party, christian conservatives are becoming more and more emboldened about making america a christian nation under trump even as trump himself continues to exhibit some very un- christian behavior on a near daily basis. this was donald trump a week ago at a campaign event inside a phoenix megachurch. >> so, they come up with this order. i won't say it because i don't like using the word [bleep] in front of these beautiful children. so i won't say it. i will not say it. but this thing allows millions of people. >> [bleep] [bleep] [bleep] [bleep] [bleep] [bleep] [bleep] >> donald trump swearing in a house of god and then getting the crowd to swear with him in front of children. we have seen the same thing from trump's allies. here is rudy giuliani speaking at the pro trump christian reawaken tour just last week. >> i have two prosecutors, fani the hoe i'm sorry. fani. now, fani is not forni and i'm not calling her forni. i could drop the hoe part if she would just quit and go away. >> classy. all of this is part of trump's unspoken agreement with the christian far right. they let trump and his allies break the rules and be vulgar with the expectation that donald trump and his allies will carry out their agenda to refashion american life according to their christian values. may not be a bad bet either. here was trump just this week speaking to a conservative christian organization that believes all abortion is quote child sacrifice. >> you will make a comeback like no other group. i know what's happening. i'll be with you side by side. >> you're going to make a comeback and i'll be with you side by side. even as donald trump refuses to give straight answers and where he stands on a national abortion ban, christian conservative groups understand what trump will do for them. it is not that much of a mystery. part of their confidence is because these groups don't have to rely on just trump alone. they can count on trump's most powerful ally. the conservative majority on the united states supreme court. we heard supreme court justice samuel alito tell a progressive activist he beliefs we need to return america to a place of godliness. in a new analysis for the new york times they write while justice writes justice alito is pushing back against the declining power of christianity in america. the movement's rise has been evident across the country since mr. trump lost reelection in 2020. justice alito and his justices have delivered for the christian right with their dobbs decision striking down roe v. wade and they will have a chance to do so again. the supreme court is about to rule on two major cases of considerable significance to the christian right. one will determine whether access to the most common form of abortion in this country is significantly restricted or not. another will determine whether doctors in emergency rooms can deny pregnant women medically necessary abortions. how the court rules on these issues could tell us just how much power the christian nationalist movement has gained in this country and how close they are to victory. joining me now are lisa lara with the new york times and author of the new book, the fall of roe, the rise of new america. and with me is mark joseph stern. senior writer who covers the courts and law at slate magazine. thank you both for joining me. let me start with a piece you have out today in the times. you know an array of conservatives has openly embraced the idea that american democracy has to be guarded guest the rise of secular culture. i don't think it is an exaggeration to suggest that strain of conservatism now seems to dominate the supreme court as well. do you think that is far off? >> part of what we document in our book is that latter part of the title. the rise of a new america. and what that really is about is the radicalization of conservative christians and we have seen some of that coming out of these tapes from the court. but i wanted to draw your viewer's attention to another story today which was that the southern baptist convention which represents the largest protestant denomination in the country. 13million church goers came out and said they oppose ivf. so this is a fairly radical statement for that group. and we are seeing this kind of return to these christian conservative cultural values from the churches all the way up to alito's statements in the court so i do think what we are watching is this shift in american power. we don't know where it is going to go. but we have a bit of a template for success for this movement. and that of course is the fall of roe. and how that network of conservative christian activists and lawyers were able to take down that legal precedent. maybe a way they can then move onto tackle these other things that they are opposed to like as we learned today, ivf. >> i do. when we talk about shifting the overton window and moving the goal post. it feels like the activist on the outside and the fringes of the far right are signaling to the alitos of the world. this is where we are at. see if you can get here. and mark i wonder if you can talk a little bit about alito's evolution here. because he wasn't always this either explicit or in some ways radicalized when he joined the court. can you talk a little bit about his progression to where he is now? >> i think a crude but accurate turn to describe him is maga pilled. he really let his christian nationalist flag fly. and, began to embrace not only the rhetoric but also the substance of this far right christian supremacy and this idea that christianity is rooted in the constitution. that we are a christian nation and courts have some kind of obligation to protect and indeed elevate christianity above not just other religions but secular society. and he went on a little bit of a talking tour earlier this decade where he decried the new moral code of secularism. that promoted reproductive freedom and lgbtq equality. they said it presented an existential threat to christianity. he tried to let pharmacists deny plan b to patients to whom it was prescribed. not any kind of actual abortion drug. but just plan b. in decisions like hobby lobby where he has allowed corporations to restrict employees access to birth control. and more recently, and of course, these abortion cases most notably dobbs as lisa documented. sam alito was always going to be the man to write that opinion. but in the coming days and weeks we will get these decisions on abortion involving the abortion pill and i think alito is quite likely to stick his neck out in that decision and write about how he believes medication abortion is unlawful under existing federal law. this is a radicalized justice staking out the positions activists in the grass roots want him to take. legitimizing them and shifting the window and eventually he hopes transforming them into the law of the land. >> i mean, it is quite obvious that the dna of the christian conservative warrior class has imprinted itself upon the supreme court. when we talk about the relationship and politics on donald trump and the christian warrior class, i wonder if trumpism hasn't imprinted itself on them. donald trump is in a church. a big church. and the call and response is the word bs. and rudy giuliani is calling fani willis one of the most vulgar things you can call someone with racist undertones. >> look, the church has changed politics but politics has changed the church, too. and churches, especially conservative evangelical and catholic churches have grown so much more political. they made this deal with donald trump. he promised them in 2016 in iowa, christianity will have power. and conservative christians jumped on the trump train and ended up being a bullet train for them. they got these three justices on the supreme court. and the deal was set. now they have been eight years. conservative christians are with him. he can moderate his tone on abortion. and they are still probably going to stick with him. they are fully bought in and part of this maga movement. now donald trump is in a different position. you have seen him come out and say it should be returned to the states. he supports exceptions to the ban for rape, insist, and life of the mother. so that dance has gotten a little more complicated for him politically. but there is not a sense he is worried about losing this group. >> one wonders where the guardrails are in any event. the republican party has effectively pledged fealty. how much of a counterweight is someone like chief justice john roberts or bret kavanaugh? does even the attempt at counterweighing happen on the supreme court? >> they are a very feeble counterweight when they choose to be one at all. all three of trump's appointees vote in lock step with what the republican party wants. trump has taken over the party so it is very much his core. and i think it is really disturbing especially to look at these decisions that do involve extreme circumstances of tragic medical mishaps where women are in dire need of abortion. this is one of the big cases this term. states are saying these women cannot get abortions. that they have to get sepsis, they have to be dying before they can get abortions. well, republican politicians lined up to agree with those laws and to support those laws at the supreme court. you had a ton of republican state attorneys general and republican governors lining up to say we do think women should be forced to the brink of death before they can get emergency abortions. the supreme court will likely agree with them and continue to force these women into these horrible circumstances and trump is savvy enough to not say anything about it because he knows he has his foot soldiers in the judiciary doing the work for him. he has his guys on the bench who are ready to uphold the most draconian abortion bans imaginable and he doesn't have to say anything. by remaining silent, and not speaking out in condemning these bans, he knows he can keep the christian right very much on his side. and that is the whole genius of the strategy behind capturing the courts. you get these justices and judges on the bench for decades. they will do your bidding. they will uphold your extreme laws. they will impose your draconian policies and most people unfortunately, most voters don't draw those lines between the judges and the presidents who appointed them and the parties those presidents belong to so they keep getting away with this stuff and that is very much the story of trumpism in the judiciary. >> yeah. a story where there is no accountability. thank you both for your time tonight. coming up, the gaslighting continues as republicans vote to hold attorney general merrick garland in contempt of congress. but first, new secret recordings have given us insight into the real thoughts of samuel alito and his wife martha anne. i will speak to the neighbor who is at the center of a verbal altercation with the alitos and made the story about her flags a national scandal. that's next. flags a national s that's next. (bell ringing) someone needs to customize and save hundreds with liberty mutual! (inaudible sounds) (elevator doors opening) wait, there's an elevator? only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, ♪ ♪ liberty. ♪ ava: i was just feeling sick. and it was the worst day. mom was crying. i was sad. colton: i was diagnosed with rhabdomyosarcoma. brett: once we got the first initial hit, it was just straight tears, sickness in your stomach, just don't want to get up out of bed. joe: there's always that saying, well, you've got to look on the bright side of things. tell me what the bright side of childhood cancer is. lakesha: it's a long road. it's hard. but saint jude has gotten us through it. narrator: saint jude children's research hospital works day after day to find cures and save the lives of children with cancer and other life-threatening diseases. thanks to generous donors like you, families never receive a bill from saint jude for treatment, travel, housing, or food, so they can focus on helping their child live. ashley: without all of those donations, saint jude would not be able to do all of the exceptional work that they do. narrator: for just $19 a month, you'll help us continue the life-saving research and treatment these kids need. tiffany: no matter if it's a big business or just the grandmother that donates once a month, they are changing people's lives. and that's a big deal. narrator: join with your debit or credit card right now, and we'll send you this saint jude t-shirt that you can proudly wear to show your support. nicole: our family is forever grateful for donations big and small because it's completely changed our lives and it's given us a second chance. elizabeth stewart: saint jude's not going to stop until every single kid gets that chance to walk out of the doors of this hospital cancer-free. narrator: please, don't wait. call, go online, or scan the qr code below right now. [music playing] ♪♪ innovation in health care means nothing if no one can afford it. ♪♪ at evernorth, we're helping to unlock barriers. ♪♪ using our 35 plus years of pharmacy benefits management experience to save businesses billions while boosting medication adherence. helping plan sponsors and their members be at their best. that's wonder made possible. evernorth health services. after the new york times reported that two flags associated with the january 6th insurrection had flown at the homes of supreme court justice samuel alito, the justice defended himself last month in a letter by putting the blame squarely on his wife. martha anne alito. i was not familiar with the appeal to heaven flag when my wife flew it. it was not aware of the connection between the historic flag and the stop the steal movement and neither was my wife. she did not fly it to associate herself with that or any other group. but audio of martha anne alito released this week by undercover progressive activist lauren windsor paints a decidedly different picture of ms. alito's flag collection and why she flew them. >> you know what i want? i want a sacred heart of jesus flag because i have to look across the lagoon at the pride flag for the next month. >> exactly. >> and he's like oh please don't put up a flag. i said i won't do it because i'm deferring to you, but when you are free of this nonsense i'm putting it up and i'm going to send them a message every day. maybe every week i'll be changing the flags. i made a flag in my head. this is how i satisfy myself. i made a flag. it's white and it is yellow and orange flames around it and the middle is the word vergogna. that in italian means shame. >> joining me now is emily baden, the former neighbor of samuel alito. thank you for joining us tonight. i'm eager to hear your reaction to this audio. we played that specific clip there because it really sounds like mrs. alito is intentional when she flies the flags and there is absolutely a political point of view she is trying to communicate. what did you make of that audio? >> absolutely. well first of all, thank you so much for having me tonight. it is a pleasure to be here. to hear her talk about the flags in that way solidities what we all know is that they are meant to display a particular message. she mentions being upset by the pride flag and wanting to fly a sacred heart of jesus flag. that flag specifically means anti-lgbtq. anti-pride. so it is very clear what she is doing with the flag and that proves us all right when he said in his statement he is lying. he said we don't know what it means. et cetera. >> that she wasn't trying to be a part of a movement or a group. that is definitely questionable given the fact she is absolutely flying the flags in response to certain groups. emily, i have to ask you, because she is so animated when she talks about this flag she would like to make that says vergogna which means shame in italian. it brought back to mind part of your account with the alitos where this is according to the new york times, when mrs. alito confronted you, you said something to her like how dare you behave this way. you have been harassing us over signs. you represent the highest court in the land, shame on you. the concept of shame really seem to animate her. i wonder if you could talk more about your interaction with her when the word shame and the concept of shame was discussed. >> yes, so that interaction, the one that happened february 15th is the one they are using as an excuse for flying the upside down american flag which does not make sense. because it was up weeks before that. what do i make of it? it was such an intention interaction and it was about the third time this has happened. each time escalating more and more. and yeah. i meant it. shame on you for behaving this way. because you represent the highest court in the land. and that was more intended toward him as well. >> can you talk about the relationship between the alitos as you saw it? he was present for some of these interactions and i was, there's part of the underc