Transcripts For MSNBC Chris Jansing Reports 20240702 : vimar

MSNBC Chris Jansing Reports July 2, 2024



it is good to be back with you on this second hour of "chris jansing reports." at this hour, a decision that dramatically reshapes the future of presidential power in this country. the supreme court ruling donald trump is partially shielded from prosecution in the january 6th case. the historic opinion by chief justice john roberts. plus, the scathing dissent from sonia sotomayor, calling the decision a loaded gun that basically makes the president a king. plus, what this all means for special counsel jack smith and when now might this case finally go to trial. our legal experts are standing by. we're also getting new reaction from the trump and biden campaigns. how will today's decision impact an already tumultuous presidential race. our nbc news reporters are following all of the latest developments. let's get right to nbc news legal correspondent lisa rubin. give us the big picture, what this means for presidential power and equal responsibility under the law? >> chris, today the supreme court is taking off the table in large measure the possibility of prosecuting a president for what they do when they're in office, and the consequences for presidential authority are vast as some of the dissenters have noted. it means that rather than fearing prosecution after their conclusion of term in office, many presidents will be largely immune for what they do while they're in office. and that's because the court took off the table anything that comes within a president's core constitutional authority. that's everything from the pardon power to vetoing legislation, to appointing and removing officers, and it even encompasses, for example, his direction of the department of justice as an executive agency. that's one bucket of allegations in this indictment that this court did give clear guidance on saying that the president is absolutely immune for the conversations he had with department of justice officials and his contemplation of removing the then acting attorney general at the time because that person didn't want to do what trump wanted him to do in terms of communicating to state legislatures that they could take back their certificates of electors. >> lisa rubin, thank you. today's decision included a powerful dissent from the three liberal justices. yamiche alcindor is outside the supreme court. the dissent is dramatic on paper, but apparently inside the court, it was even more so. tell us about it. >> that's right. justice sonia sotomayor, you could feel the frustration. she read it aloud from the bench. she said the decision to give presidents absolute immunity on official acts makes a mockery of our founding principles and constitution. i want to read what she wrote, this new officials acts immunity lies about like a loaded weapon for any president who wants to put his political interests, and financial gain above the interests of the nation, even if these nightmare scenarios play out, and i pray they never do, the damage has been done. the relationship between the president and the people he serves has shifted irrevocably. she went on to say the man in charge of enforcing laws can now just break them. ironic, isn't it. she said the president could order seal team 6 to kill a political opponent, take a bribe, stage a military coup and she wrote, immune, immune, immune. justice sotomayor is very unhappy with the way the supreme court is ruling. we have a reporter inside, gary grumbach, while she was reading the dissent, amy coney barrett, one of the conservatives who voted to give immunity was staring about like a statue. we have justice clarence thomas, he seemed to have a hard time keeping his eyes open. at times he was leaning so far back in the chair, he was testing the limitations of the chair's flexibility. and roberts and alito were reading along with sotomayor while she was reading the biting dissent, and justices ketanji brown jackson looking into the gallery. this was a consequential moment where the supreme court expanded the powers of the presidency. chris. >> yamiche alcindor, thank you. well, former president donald trump is celebrating today's supreme court decision. nbc's vaughn hillyard is following this for us. what are we hearing from trump and his campaign? >> he has put out several social media posts since this morning's decision, one in which he says in all caps, big win for our constitution and democracy. proud to be an american. of course, there are the short-term implications that has to do with the charges brought against him as part of the federal election interference indictment and part of the supreme court's decision was to state that he had absolute immunity from any conversations that he had with any department of justice officials. now, of course in that indictment, there were several instances in which they allege as part of an alleged conspiracy to defraud the u.s. that donald trump pressured doj officials to send letters to states claiming that there is election fraud in order to send alternate electors back to washington, d.c. to be counted. there is another allegation in this indictment that he made the statement very directly to the department of justice officials that they were to make the claim that there was corruption and that the rest should be left to him and republican congressional figures to figure out, and so because of that absolute immunity, he will have cover. at the same time, he is facing evidentiary hearings as part of this trial, as it's sent back to the district court under judge chutkan. those evidentiary dates have not been set. they could come potentially before november's election. of course for donald trump, one of the parts of this, though, is the reality that trial on its face will not be taking place until after the 2024 election. and of course, there is major implications potentially on what a second term for the trump presidency could look like as well, chris. >> vaughn, you stick around. you'll be back later in the show. let's head to the white house now, and nbc's aaron gilchrist. what's the reaction from the biden campaign? >> they are essentially saying donald trump just became more dangerous. that has been a core tenant of the campaign, really from day one that donald trump presents a great danger to america if he were to win a second term in office. the campaign has been focused on trying to communicate that medication. we know the campaign held a call a little while ago for the press really to talk about this supreme court decision and the deputy campaign manager said that they just handed donald trump the keys to a dictatorship. that's the messaging that the campaign is really focusing on now, and saying that the president will now go out and try to impress upon americans that there should be fear about donald trump becoming a dictator were he to win a second term in office, and i do want to share with you part of a statement that we did receive from the campaign earlier today in the minutes after that decision came down from the supreme court saying that today's ruling doesn't change the facts. so let's be clear about what happened on january 6th. donald trump snapped after he lost the 2020 election, and encouraged a mob to overthrow the results of a free and fair election. that statement went on to say that he thinks he's above the law and is willing to do anything to gain and hold on to power for himself. i think that really, chris, describes the sort of message you're going to hear from campaign surrogates, from president biden himself as he continues to go about the country over the next four months, at least that's according to what the campaign said to us today on this call, and we know that they're working to fund raise all of this moment in history as well. there have been fundraising e-mails that have gone out from the campaign to his supporters saying that folks should donate more because if trump wins he'll be an even more dangerous and unhinged person. that's the position from the campaign, chris. i wouldn't anticipate a real robust statement of any sort from the white house on this as this is still a part of an active case and the white house has tended not to comment on cases that are in the courts. >> aaron gilchrist, thank you. in 90 seconds, justice neil gorsuch said this would be a ruling for the ages. what impact will today's decision have on america's trust in the supreme court. in the supmere court (restaurant noise) allison! 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(vo) switch to the partner businesses rely on. at its core, today's immunity decision had to address a critical question for the future of democracy. what can be done when a person who took an oath to defend the rule of law in the united states instead breaks those laws. in her dissent, justice ketanji brown jackson wrote departing from the traditional model of individual accountability, the majority has concocted something entirely different, a presidential accountability model that creates immunity and exemption from criminal law, applicable only to the most powerful official in our government. the ruling adds an obstacle for a trial jack smith planned to begin months ago. joining me now, professor of history at rice. jennifer palmieri, former communications director for hillary for america and cohost of msnbc's "how to win 2024" podcast. i want to look back for a moment, doug, about what donald trump said about presidential immunity while on the campaign trail earlier this year. >> you have to give a president immunity, otherwise take a look at harry truman, he wouldn't have done -- if you think hiroshima, not a nice act but did end the second world war, probably, nagasaki, i don't want to do that because my opponents will indict me! >> i wonder what you think this ruling signals about how donald trump might approach a second term. >> well, it's deeply disheartening, and there's really nobody who could claim that our founders, the people who wrote our constitution wanted a president to have this kind of power, this sort of immunity. it's a big win for trump. and somebody like him who's a reckless operator, god only knows what damage could be done. i mean, he is going to be filled with hubris. if he thinks he can use his justice department if he got reelected to go after ex-presidents, you know, clinton and biden. he could go after, you know, former fbi agents, cia people. it's a big step forward to having an authoritarian president, and i find it a sad moment that our supreme court came down with this ruling, but we still don't know all the ramifications of how this will play out down the line. the big thing is it's a day that donald trump can celebrate because this isn't going to come up before the election now, except biden will fund raise on it and say the stakes are high, you're going to get an authoritarian trump with immunity, ran into him by right wing supreme court if you don't elect me. >> jennifer, senate majority leader chuck schumer posted this reaction. this is a sad day for america and our democracy. the very basis of our judicial system is that no one is above the law. treason or incitement of an insurrection should not with considered a core constitutional power afforded a president. does this change the stakes in the eyes of voters, and how do democrats message this? >> i did "meet the press" yesterday and on saturday we do a prep call, and david gellis the executive producer, the immunity case, it's such a big deal. will it change the election. you know, things can't get anymore amped up and then it happened, you know, sad day. it's five alarm fire. i mean, when you read sonia sotomayor's dissent, and she says the president could have seal team 6 kill a political rival, and he would be immune. trump's supreme court has decreed him a king, and now it's just up to voters to say do you want -- there are no guardrails now, second term for trump, there are no guardrails. >> the chief justice says, and i read this in the last hour, that this is a chilling doom scenario that the dissenters are making, wholly disproportionate to what the court actually did today. >> and what assurance does anyone in america have that that supreme court would ever tell this man no? you know, i mean, this is just -- it's not anything i ever expected to see. i had no notion that america was on this kind of collision course. i think for the baden campaign and for people who, you know, after the debate we see the voters seem to be hanging in there with him, and i think now people, i think that this is going to dramatically change the race in biden's favor in terms of people understanding. they just said he could be king. you know, they are never going to tell him no. and there is one way to stop him, and that's to elect biden. >> if i can just say, i have known you for a long time. >> i know. >> way way back to some of my earliest campaigns in the '90s. or maybe early 2000s. . >> yeah. >> i worked in the white house when you were there. i sat in your office, and we had conversations at times of great national import. i don't know if i've ever seen you this emotional. >> it is. it's so scary. it's just, it's like, yeah, it is. i mean, when you read, you know, everyone needs to read the dissents about what this could actually mean, and like, when sotomayor says, it's so chilling when she goes through the things he could do. he would consider to be official act of office. and of course justice roberts, you know, couches this to try to make it seem as if there's some kind of limits here, when have they ever limited him. it's terrible that this impacts jack smith's trial, the underlying case, but i feel like that's kind of beside the point in terms of what they're signaling they're going to allow this president, you know, if trump is elected, that president to do. >> this has been, doug, and maybe understating a little bit, an emotional time for a lot of people. an emotional time from what they saw on thursday, an emotional day today in a ruling that maybe went beyond what they thought potentially even their worst case scenario realistically might be. i want to read for you, doug, what the "wall street journal" said. no case to date has put trump's personal interests in the hands of the justices he appointed and from who he has expected a sympathetic hearing. two other justices have familial ties to the cause. justice clarence thomas's wife, ginni thomas, urged white house steps to block biden from taking office. justice samuel alito's wife flew flags at the couple's homes like those carried by january 6th rioters, the justice has said. this is the "wall street journal." what does this likely mean for the public's view of, trust in, and how history will judge this court? >> well, history is going to judge that 2016 election as the pivotal moment when donald trump beat hillary clinton, he was able to then come in and put those three supreme court justices on, and they were ardent, right wing conservative federal society justices. i don't think anybody should be shocked by what the supreme court said today in the sense that it's 6-3. we're living in a hyperpartisan time and the fact that trump got three justices and if he becomes president again, could get a fourth, tells you we're living in a, you know, we're going backwards in time here. but the supreme court's been in crisis. i mean, fdr, after he won in 1936 election and he tried to pack the supreme court, he tried to add justices to it, but he had his own party reigning them in. the problem today is the republican party is just celebrating. they have no desire to reign trump in. they want the supreme court to act in a hyperpartisan way and they're getting the goods. i use the word sad. we could get more, you know, deep wounded about it, but the reality was since they got those justices on, this has been a -- we've seen roe v. wade disappear. we have seen affirmative action disappear. we decided what they decided in the supreme court about chevron, gutting environmental laws. we're living in a time of revolution. it's a -- where the power of the presidency is gaining, and if trump wins, he could possibly, probably would have supreme court in his hip pocket, the senate in congress, and that is a frightening scenario. i don't know where one checks him at that point. >> there's that old saying, jim, don't get mad, get even. but i do wonder, if this has a motivating impact, especially for some democrats who felt maybe after thursday, i don't know if i can really get into this. i don't know if i can put my heart and soul into the race, and does it have the opposite, what's going on with the president, and still a decision that has to be made, and we haven't seen a reading off a teleprompter, a speech that was written for him. does this get lost in that? >> oh, i don't think this gets lost this that, when people are following along. i don't think any decision gets lost because it's just so, and wow, fourth of july week. they basically said, you know, again this was justice sotomayor saying -- they're saying the president can be a king, and doug said, as an authoritarian model. so i don't think -- i don't think, and i did before it happened on saturday, i just don't know that this is going to really ratchet things up anymore. everything is ratcheted up and things are divided but it's so chilling to read the actual decision and then to understand the impacts that the minority opinion puts in there, that i do think it is -- it will be part of the other conversation, and i think, you know, when you -- it's like this really isn't about individuals. this is about a larger principle, and i can see republicans who maybe never in their life thought they would vote for a democrat, you know, voting for biden after this. i think that it just -- and i don't know if the supreme court, i mean, presumably they thought they were helping him in some way, and by releasing this so late in the -- >> in the term. >> yeah, but i just -- i think it's going to have an opposite effect. the argument against him is none of this is spin. none is hyperbole. he has project 2025. he said what he's going to do, and the supreme court is told there are no guardrails. if it's official, you don't need to be held accountable. >> jennifer palmieri, please stick around. doug brinkley, always great to have you on the program. thank you. still ahead, one of the officers who defended the capitol on january 6th reacts to the news that donald trump has been given at least partial immunity. >> for most people january 6th happened for a few hours. for those of us who were in the thick of it, it has not ended. t. wait for insurance to approve a test or approve a medication. we didn't have to worry about any of those things thanks to the donations. and our family is forever grateful because it's completely changed our live

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