the man in charge of a global network that owns the tv challenges. book publishers and newspaper. a report says news corp is considering replacing murdoch. they say it's not a done deal but it depends on what happens when murdoch appears in front of the british parliament tomorrow and he'll answer questions of hacking phones of royal family members, celbrities and hacking done by "news of the world." if murdoch is replaced it will be a bombshell on the scandal. a scandal that grows more shocking by the day. and the latest, a whistleblower found dead in his home. shaun hoare was the first to go on record saying "news of the world" reporters were encouraged to hack into accounts. his death is being treated unexplained but not thought to be suspicious suggesting it was a suicide. this scandal is rocking britain but seems ready to explode here in the united states. the fbi investigating whether a news corp journalist tried to hack into the phones of 9/11 victims and survivors. calls in congress for a investigation. the fbi also says it's aware of reports that actor jude law's phone was hacked while he was in new york. the scandal shows no sign of slowing down. quite the contrary. possibly being replaced as the ceo of his own media empire. a man whose customer base is the whole world. anyone who watches "glee" or reads the "wall street journal" or anyone that goes to the movies or reads books. we have jeffrey toobin and matthew chance. and brian stelter. brian, we'll start with you, rupert murdoch stepping down in the world of media, that's a wow. true or maybe? >> right now it's a maybe. news corp will not deny the bloomberg report on the record. what they say on background, people around the company say there was no meeting today to talk about it. you can tell that's not a real denial. they may want this out here before the testimony in order to change the tone of the testimony. clearly it's going to be a tough day for rupert murdoch and his son. he's a pretty elderly man. whether he leave this is year, next year or five years there's already been talk about succession plans from him and the report from bloomberg is that chase kerry, could step up to be ceo. analysts have been thinking for days it might happen. >> so rupert murdoch, his son and rebekah brooks testify tomorrow. what are we expecting from this hearing? >> well, we're expecting that rupert murdoch will the box office draw. he'll be grilled by british members of parliament. he'll be cross-examined about his extent of the knowledge with what his executives were up to when they apparently, as the accusation goes, authorized these phone hacking antics to go ahead against celebrities and victims of crimes. to what extent he knew and to what extent he'll do something about it. so it will be a pretty explosive day. and obviously, the very fact the the world's most powerful media mogul is appearing in front of the british has parliament to answer questions in this way is a fascinating event in itself. >> so we're talking about this as a business story. rupert murdoch stepping down. and it's political drama because he's so influential in british politics. and american politics. counselor, he knows there's criminal investigations on both sides of the atlantic. rupert murdoch and his depth tigs need to be careful, don't they? >> think of how difficult it is for them. they have to do two almost entirely contradictory things in their testimony tomorrow. one is they have to acknowledge responsibility. they have to say that what is completely obvious is that this was not some aberration. this was not one person or ten people. it was apparently thousands of people who were hacked and the idea that they didn't know is preposterous. but they can't confess to crimes. practically everyone around them has been arrested already. rebekah brooks, rupert murdoch's protége in great britain, arrested yesterday. they have to acknowledge but not admit. frankly, i don't know if it's possible. >> matthew, a bizarre twist. the whistleblower, shaun hoare found dead. what do we know about the circumstances of that death and the investigation? >> he's added this bizarre, human dimension to this saga that continues to develop by the hour here in the united kingdom. the police have issued a statement saying that this man was found at 10:40 in the morning local time. he's been identified as shaun hoare. the former show biz correspondent for "the news of the world" a man that would have been very well placed indeed to know about the antics of fellow "news or the world" journalists. he was the whistleblower and he said to andy coulson, he not only knew the phone hacking took place when he was editor of the paper but he condoned it and actively encouraged it. so this is someone who's been a great source, sort of full of accusations, throughout this scandal. >> so the question shifts to the parliament hearings brian. in the sense that rupert murdoch could be at risk and planning to step down. could come under investigation at some point. as this happens you look at the individual but you say as you look at the individual, look at the power of the individual because of these conglomerates? >> i think this is the best opportunity that critics of the rupert murdoch to speak out saying he has too much power. we're hearing a lot of that out of britain already. they're saying maybe news corp should be broken up. it shouldn't own satellite companies as well as books and newspapers. we're starting to hear this in the u.s. but not nearly as much as in the uk. >> i was in britain the last ten days, and the scope of murdoch's power there is so enormous. the times of london, "the sun," "sky broadcasting." he's courted by politician there of all parties. sure, he has a lot of power here with the "wall street journal" and fox news. but it's not like britain who are just waiting for him. >> as we watch what plays out overseas you hear the fbi and the congress, we're going to watch a parliamentary procedure in britain tomorrow but there's a lot of activity here. where do you see this going? >> i think it's a long shot. this was designed about bribery of government officials abroad. that's not seemingly what went on here. the reports of hacking in the united states have been really sketchy and highly unconfirmed. this really seems like a criminal matter abroad so far. but politically, murdoch is in desperate trouble. >> and the main event the next 24 hours, these hearing, thank you all. let us know what you think. we're on facebook or an twitter. up next, president obama says america doesn't need to change the constitution to balance the budget. well, the public says otherwise. but there's an important catch. and you'll hear from a tea party leader who says the best deal for raising the debt ceiling is no deal. he'll tell us why. and a major development with libya. talks between libyan and american officials. what was said and why it wasn't exactly a negotiation. first, isha sesay. which heard mubarak was in a coma, he wasn't and that he has cancer. and more. what's the real story? 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[ disco playing ] and this is to remind you that you could save hundreds! yeah, that'll certainly stick with me. we'll take it. go, big money! i mean, go. it's your break, honey. same coverage, more savings. now, that's progressive. call or click today. 15 days until the treasury says it will run out money. a tea party leader says don't raise the debt seeing and he says president obama is lying about the consequences if we don't. "keeping them honest" about what many republicans believe is central to solving the long-term problem. a constitutional amendment to balance the budget. they vote on "cup, cap and balance." cutting spending to 2004 levels and caps it and freezes it right there and calls for a balanced budget amendment to the constitution. >> all that we ask in this bill is that we simply allow the states to weigh in, should the federal government live under a balanced budget amendment. should they do that? >> i don't understand why people won't vote for the a balanced budget amendment because it's the only discipline that will ever force the politics of washington to meet the responsibilities of washington. >> let's do something historic. let's, for the first time in american history, pass a balanced budget amendment through the house and the senate. >> the senate, though, is not expected to pass it. jay carney promised a presidential veto and in his press conference on friday president obama said a balanced budget amendment is unnecessary. >> we don't need more studies. we don't need a balanced budget amendment. we simply need to make these tough choices. and be willing to take on our bases. >> "keeping them honest," a majority of americans disagree on the general question of a balanced budget amendment in a nbc poll in april, 61% support a balanced budget and in a sacks mason dixon poll in may, support was 65%. republicans also were slamming democratic lawmakers for supporting a balanced budget amendment in the past but not anymore. this morning, brian walsh at tweeted, all campaigned on a bba in '06 and now they're flip-flopping. explain. and true enough, ohio senator in 2006. >> i stood up to the president of my own party, not just in opposition to the north american free trade agreement but in support of the balance bud jet amendment welcome, in restoring fiscal sanity to our government. >> and republican operative brian walsh is correct. what he doesn't mention is the new proposed amendment differs significantly from the one those law enforcements supported. it caps government spending at 18% of the economy. for perspective with the government currently spends 25%. the last time the government spent only 18% of gdp was four and a half decades ago in 1966 when the population was younger, medical care cost less and the government provided fewer services. this proposed amendment, part of the cut, cap and balance bill is making its way through congress as the leadership is trying, trying, to hammer out a deal in the white house. but 71% in a new cbs poll disapprove of how congressional republicans are handling the debt crisis. democrats get 58% disapproval. the president gets a thumb's down from 48%. then the tea party, many see the crisis as an opportunity to draw a line and fundamentally change the way the government does business. earlier tonight i spoke with mark meckler, the cofounder and national coordinator of the pea party patriots. mark, business leaders, government officials from the president of the united states and key republican leaders in congress, they say there will be armageddon, disaster if the debt ceiling isn't raised but you don't buy it? >> no, i don't. we've been hearing terms like "armageddon" and disaster since the passage of t.a.r.p., $720 billion that was supposed to save us. it didn't do it then. we didn't see the disaster. the money hadn't been spent. we're not going to see armageddon now. >> you say we won't see armageddon now but to be honest, we don't know because congress has never raised the debt ceiling so we only have predictions. why are you so confident that they're wrong? >> i hear economists and politicians saying exactly opposite and the reality is it will force the politicians to make the different choices they're currently avoiding. we all know there's going to be pain. the bottom line is the politician should make the decisions to cut the necessary programs. >> you say "cut the necessary programs" and one of the things the white house pushes back on if you get to august 3rd, the debt ceiling is not raised, but on that next wednesday, thursday or friday, might be military pay, va benefits, won't go out. the suspect warning that. are you prepared to deal with that fallout? >> we're not prepared to deal with that fallout. the president is lying. money is in place to pay every single program you just mentioned. the only way it won't go out is if the president chooses them. he's threatening the seniors, disabled and military and those threats are nothing more than fear mongering and totally inappropriate. >> yes, there's probably enough money for social security and veterans but at some point the government every month and you know this, the government takes in a certain amount of money but spends because of deficit spending, spends more so something's got to give, right? >> absolutely. that's why i think it's so unfortunate when the president would go after the seniors and disabled. when in reality, there's programs that should be cut. cbo found over 500 duplicative things that need to be cut. the president is the victimizing seniors and the military. he's victimizing the disabled and it's totally inappropriate. >> some of those things will be discussed as congress looks at potential cuts and next year's budget and negotiates with this president. but on august 4th, 5th and 6th you could cut some of these things and people always mention foreign aide, it's a tiny amount of the budget. if we get to august 3rd and the debt ceiling is not raised, there are people that are going to have pain. >> absolutely and everybody in the country understands that there will be difficulty. and the thing we do know and american public opinion is, don't raise the debt limit. we understand it's time to reorganize the country and fix what's broken. it's not time to kick the can down the road any further and that's what this president and congress are trying to do right now. >> i think the latest public opinion polls are about even on the split. the public is divide. the republican leaders in congress -- >> to be clear, gallup poll came out last week and by a 2-1 margin the plurality of americans say they don't want to see the debt limit raised. >> a poll tonight says it's even but you make a point about public opinion. republican leaders in congress support raising the debt ceiling. so let's assume they're going to negotiate a deal. what do you hear from the grassroots that let's you stand up and say -- you're wrong. if the republicans say, the house and senate, votes to go along with the deal, is it your message that the tea party will come after you? >> i don't think it's that specific. the message is they're standing against the american people and at least there's always electoral consequences. tea pierce remembers. the largest turnover in congress since 1938. with or without this vote we'll see a much larger turnover in 2012. >> any room for compromise? raising the debt ceiling if it gets something in exchange? or is it your view that, no, just leave it right where it is. the government doesn't get a bigger credit line? >> it's not mark meckler's view. i can only tell you what we've been told by the coordinators and they voted and 86% say do not raise the debt limit period. that's bigger than what the national opinion is but it matches up nicely with the national opinion so we say -- don't raise it. we're not looking for compromise we're looking for cuts. >> do not raise it and i want to come back to -- even if on the day after somebody out there doesn't get his or her check. whether it's a veteran or getting housing a substance or social security check, i agree, i don't think it's likely but it's a possibility. if somebody out there doesn't get a check and they say, we could have had a deal if the tea party republicans had vote "yes" instead of "no" are you worried about that? >> i'm not. you said that decision will come from the president. there's plenty of places cut on august 3rd and 4th that will not cause people to get checks. it's nothing but fear mongering and scare tactics for the president or anybody else to talk about disabled or social security or disabled veterans not getting a check. i would encourage the president to step back from those statements. it's outrageous for him to say things like that. >> appreciate your time. >> thank you, john. >> he said flat out, president obama is, quote, lying, unquote, about the consequences. new polling "the tonight show"s people in the country about evenly divided. about whether it's absolutely essential that it be raised by august 2nd. he and others acknowledge there will be pain. let's head over to the wall. this is a couple of examples, this given to us by the bipartisan policy center in washington. a little basic budget math. the government took in 194 billion last year. paid 240 billion so deficit spending. this august, because the economy is slower they expect to take in $172 billion. $306 billion in bills. so the current projection is $134 billion in deficit spending in august. remember the $172 billion. here's one scenario. if the government decided to pay its bills, no increase in the debt ceiling, pay its bills based on big-ticket items. that would be interest on the debt. social security, medicare and medicaid, defense spenders. unemployment insurance. what you'd get under the big-ticket scenario is a drawing off the line. that's your $172 billion. the government is out of money if you don't increase the debt ceiling. what gets cut? military pay. wouldn't get their checks under this scenario. veterans checks, irs refund. if you're waiting for one you wouldn't get it. nutrition services, foods stamps, wouldn't get paid. federal salaries, education department, other and you heard him mention for reason aide to the palestinians. you have to make the choices and cut it off right here. that's one way. suppose you decided instead we'll put a priority on the social safety net. under this scenario, interest gets paid, social security gets paid, medicare and medicaid and those nutrition services that got cut off last time, you could pay them. housing grants would go out. veterans affairs, unemployment, education and tuition assistance. but under this set of priorities your line is down here and then you're at or slightly above that $172 billion. you cover most of the social safety net here but defense vendors wouldn't get paid. active duty military. irs refunds and federal salaries and that foreign aide. so under either scenario, no increase in the debt ceiling the government has to make priorities and set them whether you do the big-ticket approach or the social safety approach, some of them very tough choices and some politically painful and risky. >> how ill is the former egyptian president? if we believe his lawyer, mubarak is practically on death's door. could his claims of failing health could have anything to do with his upcoming trial. and texas governor rick perry said he feels called to run for the white house. what impact would a perry candidacy have on the race for republican nomination? we'll have answers just ahead. new question tonight about the health of hosni mubarak. his lawyer says the 83-year-old exruler fell ill into a coma yesterday and hospital officials say he regained consciousness by sunday night. the lawyer claims he's battling complications from stomach cancer. egyptian prosecutors don't go that far. they say he suffers from depression, fatigue and low blood pressure. this is what his lawyer told us back in may. >