Transcripts For CNNW Anderson Cooper 360 20120421 : vimarsan

CNNW Anderson Cooper 360 April 21, 2012



>> that expression of regret as you'll see did not move trayvon martin's family. it did, however, as you'll also see tonight inject high drama into a bond hearing that many thought would be routine. it was not. zimmerman's apology was only part of the reason why. today's hearing also exposed some of the strengths and many believe weaknesses of the prosecution's case. for example, an investigator today admitted that he does not know one way or another who threw the first punch. martin or zimmerman. even though the second degree murder charge might indicate there was some evidence zimmerman was the aggressor. he admitted that there was no evidence for the claim he was attacked by martin while walking back to his truck. yet he also testified that the state has evidence raising doubts about other parts of zimmerman's story including his claim that trayvon martin was slamming his head against the ground shortly before he pulled the trigger. you add up all the testimony today and you're left believing that this tragedy is like one of those ink blot pictures. a rorschach test. the evidence, at least what we know about it so far does not seem to favor any single interpretation. for instance, there's the video of zimmerman in police custody the night of the killing. an officer appears to touch him then wipes his hand. was it blood? if so a how badly was zimmerman hurt? just seconds before he's seen jumping from a police cruiser and side walking smoothly through the station. yet that same tape also appears to show some kind of injury on the back of zimmerman's head. what do you see there? then there's george zimmerman's call to police. >> are you following him? >> yeah. >> okay. we don't need you to do that. >> okay. >> the prosecution contends that zimmerman kept following martin. testimony from martin's girlfriend who was on the phone with him at the time, apparently until the scuffle began seems to bear that out. yet zimmerman claims he lost martin and was headed back to his truck when martin beat him to the ground. today the prosecution admitted they've got no evidence to disprove that. just some of the pieces that don't add up at least not yet to one clear picture of what happened that night. about the only clarity came in the bail amount. $150,000 and the conditions of george zimmerman's release. plenty to talk about. first david mattingly who was at the hearing. >> reporter: everyone expected revelations. both sides walked into court anticipating new evidence from prosecutors arguing to keep george zimmerman in jail. no one expected this. >> my client wants to make a statement to the court, your honor. >> reporter: wearing a suit and shackles, george zimmerman shuffled to the witness stand and spoke directly to the parents of trayvon martin who were seated in the audience just a few feet away. >> i wanted to say i am sorry for the loss of your son. i did not know how old he was. i thought he was a little bit younger than i am. and i did not know if he was armed or not. >> reporter: but immediately the prosecutor attacked zimmerman questioning his timing and motivation. >> that's really addressed to the family where the media happens to be, correct? >> no. to the mother and the father. >> and tell me, after you committed this crime and you spoke to police, did you ever make that statement to the police, sir? that you were sorry for what you'd done? >> no, sir. >> you never stated that, did you? >> i don't remember what i said. i believe i did say that. >> you told that to the police? >> in one of the statements i said that i felt sorry for the family. >> you did? >> yes, sir. >> so that would be recorded because all those conversations were recorded, right? >> yes, sir. >> and you're sure you said that? >> i'm fairly certain. >> why did you wait so long to tell mr. martin and the victim's mother. the father and mother. why did you wait so long to tell them? >> i was told not to communicate with them. >> reporter: the surprise testimony almost overshadowed a stellar day for george zimmerman's defense. an investigator for the state couldn't answer basic but critical questions. who threw the first punch. >> do you know who started the fight? >> do i know? >> right. >> no. >> do you have any evidence that supports who may have started the fight? >> no. >> reporter: and did forensic analysis of the recordings determine who is that yelling for help on the 911 calls? >> is that part of your investigation? >> yes, it is. >> and has that given you any insight to the extent you're aware of it as to the voice? >> no. >> reporter: fearing for their safety, zimmerman's family testified by telephone. his father talked about his son's injuries. >> his face was swollen quite a bit. he had a protective cover over his nose. his lip was swollen and cut. and there were two vertical gashes on the back of his head. >> reporter: his mother talked about zimmerman's work mentoring african-american children in unsafe neighborhoods. >> i had told my son please don't go. it's too dangerous. and he said mom, if i don't go, they don't have nobody. >> reporter: and we heard for the first time from zimmerman's wife. a student unemployed and worried about safety. >> i received hate mail. >> have you reported that to the police? >> no, i haven't. >> have you reported that to my boss ms. corey, and the state attorney's office so somebody could investigate? >> no, sir. >> did you keep those threats? >> i'm sorry? >> did you keep that hate mail? >> yes. >> reporter: the state asked for a million dollar bond. in the end the judge ordered zimmerman released on a bond of $150,000. and safety remains the overriding concern about george zimmerman's release from jail. how is he going to escape all this scrutiny and slip back into hiding he emerged from to turn himself in? >> thanks very much. it was really a stunning day in court. just ahead our legal panel weighs in on what we learned today. sunny hostin, mark nejame, and mark geragos. but first martin family attorney, benjamin crump joining us. we all saw george zimmerman and the family face to face. what was their reaction not just to seeing him but to hearing him talk and that apology? >> it was a very emotional day, anderson. to be within feet of the killer of your child, it was very emotional. in fact, mr. martin wept continuously throughout the hearing. and it was something different because normally he would be the person confident. sybrina, trayvon's mother. but this hearing he was crying and she was comforting him telling him we have to stay strong. that the apology was very self-serving in their opinion. they did not feel it was sincere at all. >> because he had not apologized previously? >> not only had he not apologized previously in 50 days. he wanted to apologize when he was arrested. and it was one of those situations he had ulterior motives we believe. it was a situation -- you know, the real george zimmerman website. the website that he said he authored, that he was in complete control of. that everything that was important, everything that was relevant that he was -- about this matter he was going to put out there. yet in that whole website, he never says i'm sorry for taking trayvon martin's life. he never shows remorse until he gets in the courtroom. and whether he can go free is riding on it, he says i'm sorry. it's really interesting. he takes the stand and he's supposed to address the court and he underhandedly tries to put this apology out to the family. it was one of those things that they really, really thought was very insincere. >> i hear what you're saying. you know a lot of times in these situations an attorney talking to george zimmerman might say -- and he himself said he was told not to say anything. not to apologize. attorneys often say you cannot say anything. don't say you're sorry. it could be used against you later on. are you saying there was a way he could have said i'm sorry that would not have been used against him later on? >> absolutely. he wasn't following his lawyers' advice before. you heard his former attorneys say he started his own website. he was doing what he wanted to do. if he wanted to say i'm sorry, he could have said it on that website. he could have left voice messages with his friends. when he told them to stay strong for george and that stuff. he never showed any remorse, anderson. only when it was self-serving today. sybrina and tracy saw through it. it was hard for them because they kept watching the killer of their son. it was emotional. >> let me just ask you -- i'm sorry. let me ask you. we heard from the special prosecutor what they said on the stand today that they -- a lot of court observers felt maybe their case is kind of weak. that they couldn't say for sure who threw the first punch. does that concern you? >> well, anderson, we believe that angela corey has told us over and over they would not charge him with second degree murder if they did not feel they could get a conviction. we believe this was a bond hearing and they didn't want to show their hand. so they were not going to show all the evidence. one thing that is real interesting was he took the stand, but yet for some reason the court did not let the state get into his credibility. they didn't let them ask questions. he voluntarily took the stand to make this self-serving apology, but yet he was protected when the state got up and tried to attack his credibility. when you are the defendant, the state can always attack your credibility. your credibility is always at issue. and so that was -- that was puzzling why they couldn't inquire of him since he gave up his right against self-recrimination. >> benjamin crump, i appreciate you being on. let us know what you think at home. we're on facebook, google plus. if you watched today's proceedings, tweet me. we'll have more on this. we'll show you key moments from today. was it a better day for the defense than the prosecution? mark geragos and others, our legal panel weigh in in just a moment. a self-defense, second degree murder or something else? george zimmerman's story points one way. the charging documents points another. some say the prosecutor's performance today says one thing. and then george zimmerman apologizing on the stand to the martin family. then explaining why he waited so long. listen. >> i felt sorry that they lost their child, yes. >> and so you told detectives that you wanted them to convey that to the parents? >> i don't know that they were detectives or not. >> officers, i apologize. >> i didn't know if they were going to convey it or not. i just made the statement. >> okay. and then you said that you called them up or left a message for them to tell them that. >> no, sir. >> why did you wait 50 days to tell the parents. >> i don't understand the question, sir. >> why did you wait so long to tell mr. martin and the victim's mother, the father and mother. why did you wait so long to tell them? >> i was told not to communicate with them. >> let's talk about that today, a big hearing. lots to talk about. mark nejame, sunny hostin and also criminal defense attorney mark geragos joins me in new york. how do you think the prosecution did? we heard from the detectives he couldn't say who threw the first punch. were you surprised by all this? >> i thought it was abysmal. it was an abysmal performance by the prosecution today. if that's all they have, i've said it before on your show. i don't see him getting past an immunity hearing. >> benjamin crump said maybe they didn't want to show all they had. >> i guess that's a nice spin to put on it. but frankly, if that's all they have and everybody was expecting there must be more, there must be more because this probable cause affidavit was so thin. if this is all they have, i don't see how this gets past immunity hearing. >> sunny, do you agree with that? >> no. i'm sorry i'm not in new york to disagree with mark in person. in technicolor. this was a bond hearing, a motion made by the defense. the prosecution relied on the affidavit for probable cause. they weren't going to tip their hand today. they were going to rely on that affidavit. >> i'll ask you one thing. you're going to tell me -- >> mark, you know that. >> you're going to tell me based on that affidavit you ever thought you were going to keep him in? there was a lot of people yesterday -- all of the pro-prosecution people were all over the air waives saying he's not going to get bond. there's a presumption. >> not me. >> explain that. >> absolutely. >> don't talk all over each other. sunny answer. >> the standard is so very high for the prosecution in terms of a bond hearing in florida. it's beyond beyond a reasonable doubt. i suspect that george zimmerman would get a bond package. everyone knew that. >> mark nejame, $150,000 that's well within the realm it should be? you weren't surprised by that? >> i was predicting it would be about $100,000. that's normal realm. i disagree with mark. he classified this as an abysmal hearing. i think he's being very generous. i think the fact of the matter is that it didn't even rise to that level. the reality of it is, they went ahead and secured and by their open admission that they did not have any proof of who initiated this or how the encounter occurred. there's no opportunity for them to come back and say they're wrong when they swore to that. they swore to that under oath. that's all the evidence they had. so all the secrets they're claiming, sorry. >> when benjamin crump says they didn't want to show their hand and talk about all the evidence they had, you don't think that's true? >> as to these two key points, of course it's not true. because you take the stand and you get asked under oath, what else do you have to establish this or that which is essential elements of this case and they say they don't have anything else. they don't have anything else. that was said under oath. they can't come back and claim otherwise. >> give mark credit. he's willing to slam the prosecutors harder than i was and he has to practice down there. >> zimmerman was on the 911 tape -- and a lot of people focused on this today -- says to the operator that he appears to be in his teens, i believe, is what he says. on the stand, zimmerman today said he thought trayvon martin was just a few years younger than him. he's in his late 20s. let's listen to what he said on the stand. >> i wanted to say i am sorry for the loss of your son. i did not know how old he was. i thought he was a little bit younger than i am. i did not know if he was armed or not. >> how old would you say he was? >> he's got a button on his shirt. late teens. >> late teens. okay. >> so he now seems to be suggesting something else that he thought he was older and i guess therefore somehow more threatening. is that a lie? is that a mistake? what is that? >> innocent misrecollection is what they normally call it. frankly you did a better job there of cross examination than was done at the hearing today. >> they didn't point that out? >> that's what i'm saying. i watched that, i'm being charitable if you listen to the other mark by saying it's abysmal. i watched that. i don't see how they get past an immunity hearing. >> investigate on a probable cause affidavit particularly why he used the word profile. i want to play that clip. >> did you consider it to be a considerable type of profiling? >> no. >> then why'd you use the word profiling rather than noticed, observed, saw, or anything besides the very precise word profiled. and by the way, was that your word? did you come up with that word? >> i don't recall. this was a collaborative answer. i mean, excuse me. a collaborative document. >> when you swore that to be true, what did you mean that to indicate? >> that zimmerman saw martin, formed an idea in his head, and contacted the sanford police department. with no facts. >> sunny, obviously profiled is a loaded term. was it smart for the defense attorney to cast doubt on that? >> you know, i thought mark o'mara did a wonderful job today. i thought the prosecution did a good job as well. but that is a charged term, profiling. i thought the detective did a good job in explaining it. >> we've got two attorneys. one says it's abysmal and another says it's worse than that. how can you say they did a good job? >> i think they did a good job. this was a bond hearing. this wasn't a full blown trial. this wasn't an immunity hearing. the prosecution did what they needed to do. and they always do this type of -- >> they've got the detective now under oath on the stand saying he has no idea about two of the crucial areas. and you're telling me that's a great performance? that that's something -- they're going to get that transcript. they're going to use that at the immunity hearing. >> we've got to leave it there. >> goes a step further. >> go ahead then we go. >> briefly. sunny, you couldn't be more incorrect. the standard here was -- >> incorrect how? >> hold on, please. was proof evident and was presumption great? so the state knew they had a burden of establishing that. they asked for no bond. they knew this was going to be subject to attack. >> this was -- >> hold on. they left it wide open. it was more than a bond hearing. they should have been prepared. >> more than a bond hearing? it's a bond hearing. >> i got to go. sunny hostin, thank you. mark nejame and mark geragos, thanks for being here. and the observers that are supposed to be monitoring a cease-fire in syria. if there's no ceasefire. and second the suv in the video, practically the entire u.n. monitoring force there. keeping them honest straight ahead. well, keeping them honest tonight, how many people do you suppose you'd need to monitor a ceasefire in a country the size of syria. before answering, consider here in new york there are 34,500 members of the new york police department. 34,000 police officers policing 8 million people and no one is waging war. also consider it takes four on ice officials to keep the piece such as it is at a hockey game. how many observers does the u.n. have on the ground in a country of nearly 23 million people? six. not 6,000. not 600. six people. two more than at tonight's stanley cup playoffs. and here is what they're up against. [ explosions ] >> that is homs today. that is shelling. one shell landing followed by a bracketing shot. then in a few seconds you'll see a third shell landing between the first two. heavy artillery, the kind only the syrian military has. the assad regime promised last thursday not to use it. promised not to fire on neighborhoods. promised to pull tanks and troops and snipers out of cities. i don't know how many times i repeat this every night, they haven't done any of that. the opposition says at least 57 people died today in syria. we can't confirm that number. that's nearly ten times the number of u.n. observers currently on the ground. ten times the number of dead versus u.n. peacekeepers. in fairness, the six monitors are only an advance team. next week there could be 30. 30. here's the reaction to that number earlier from the activist known as zaidoun. >> 30? we need 30 observers for one neighborhood only. >> what do you hope happening? what do you hope the international community does? >> the international community should send 3,000 observers and believe me, the regime will fall the same day. the regime would be toppled the same day. we would have people rushing to the streets for demonstrations. we want this regime to go peacefully but we need the help. we need the help of the rest of the world. don't tell me you couldn't have sent us more than 30 observers. 30? these are good for an examination. not observe an army of half a million people just firing all types of arms against civilians, against unarmed civilians. >> 30 observers expected. the u.n. secretary-general ban ki moon wants t

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