Transcripts For CNNW Anderson Cooper 360 20120519 : vimarsan

CNNW Anderson Cooper 360 May 19, 2012



each piece of the puzzle can be seen in a number of ways. we've been going through the evidence all last night and all today. some of it, though, speaks for itself. surveillance video from the convenience store where trayvon martin bought candy and iced tea, compelling only if not for the fact it shows the teenager in his last moments alive. and the back of zimmerman's head shows he was injured. a recording between the assistant state attorney in florida and trayvon martin's girlfriend. they were talking on the phone that evening just before the shooting. she told investigators that trayvon martin told him a man was watching him from a car and following him, so trayvon martin started to run. here's part of that interview. >> let me make sure i understand this. so trayvon tells you that the guy's getting closer to him. >> yeah. >> and then you hear trayvon saying something? >> yeah. >> what do you hear trayvon saying? >> why are you following me for. >> why are you following me for. >> yeah. >> then what happened? >> i heard this man, like old man say, what are you doing around here? >> okay. so you definitely could tell another voice that was not trayvon. >> yeah. >> and you heard this other voice say what? >> what are you doing around here? >> what are you doing around here? okay. >> i called trayvon, trayvon, what's going on? >> that's you saying that? >> yeah. >> okay. >> then i called out him and i got no answer from trayvon. >> you could hear there was something going on, like something hitting something. >> yeah. i could hear the grass thing. >> out of the -- okay, then what happened. >> and then i was still screaming, trayvon, trayvon! >> there was no response. >> and the next thing i -- the phone just shut off. >> it shut off? >> the phone shut off. >> can you hear any screaming like help me or anything like that? >> no. >> did you hear any kind of shot? >> no. >> we know from the call that zimmerman made to 911 that he was told not to follow martin. listen. >> are you following him? >> yeah. >> okay, we don't need you to do that. >> okay. >> also just released, a stanford police report called the capias which is a request for charges to be filed. that report is dated march 19 and it says, the encounter between george zimmerman and trayvon martin are unavoidable. if zimmerman had remained in his vehicle and a waited the arrival of law enforcement or conversely if he had identified himself to martin as a concerned citizen and initiated dialogue in an effort to dispel each party's story that trayvon martin was involved in any criminal activity of any kind. randi kaye has more. >> the first evidence of violence? these pictures. george zimmerman told officers that trayvon martin attacked him and threw his head into the concrete. if that's true, are these wounds consistent with a head hitting pavement? documents released last week showed zimmerman had bruises to his forehead, bleed and go -- bleeding and terpdness to his nose. zimmerman declined to be transported to the hospital even after he told officers that his head hurt and he felt light-headed. and there's this. if there was a prolonged struggle, would zimmerman's dna be on trayvon martin's hands? an analysis of scrapings from underneath the teenager's finger nails did not contain any of zimmerman's dna. but the autopsy done on martin does show a cut, quote, a one-quarter by 1/8 inch small abrasion on the left fourth finger, evidence he may indeed have been punching zimmerman. and the encounter with zimmerman after the shooting found him winded. >> he was having a hard time because he looked like he had gotten his butt whoopd, so he was a little bit more of, you know, not shock but like just getting up type of thing. >> there's also another question. if the two men fought, who was it that neighbors heard yelling for help? in a 911 call, one man recalled a man shouting help or help me 38 times in 24 seconds. listen to this 911 call. you can hear someone yelling in the background. >> do you think he's yelling help? >> the discovery showed competing series of events. one thought they heard a young boy screaming for help. one witness, witness 6, as he's called in the document, thought it was the voice of a grown man. >> there was a brac man with a black hoodie on top of either a white guy or now that i found out that he was a hispanic guy, with a red sweatshirt on, on the ground, yelling out help. >> the fbi looked into this, too. but their audio analysis was inconclusive, saying it couldn't determine whose voice it was due to the, quote, extreme emotional state of the person yelling plus overlapping voices. the fbi said there was an insufficient voice quality on the recording. and what about that racial slur zimmerman, a white hispanic, allegedly used when describing trayvon? >> the back entrance. >> fbi said they could not discern the language zimmerman used due to a weak signal and poor recording quality. that is key to the evidence. if he used a racial slur, the chances zimmerman would be charged with a hate crime diminish. but the discovery with one of the zimmerman's coworkers said something else. the man, who is middle eastern, says he is a racist and a bully. >> i was portrayed like the -- i don't know if you ever watched comedy, this guy called ahmed the terrorist? >> no. >> okay, so it's a little guy, he's got this weird voice and some, that was me in the story, so the story turned my accent to, no, i kill you! >> in his 911 call just before the shooting, zimmerman indicated the teenager looked like he was on drugs or something. but even though we now know trayvon's blood had thc in it, the active ingredient in marijuana, that may not mean he was high. one toxicologist cautioned thc can linger in a person's system for days, even spike after death. and hln's dr. drew pinsky warned marijuana typically does not make someone more agressive. you would think we would be closer to learning the truth about what happened, but really, the one thing we know for sure is that a single gunshot fired straight into the chest of trayvon martin killed him. randi kaye, cnn, atlanta. >> one note, in a story published in today's atlanta sentinel, the witness described as witness 6 who said he heard it was zimmerman yelling for help later told florida law enforcement he wasn't so sure who it was. joining me now live is former los angeles deputy district attorney, author of "guilt by degrees." how important were zimmerman's wounds on those pictures during the trial? >> i think they are highly significant. i think those are going to be defense exhibits as the first thing they can introduce and through the very first witness they put on. those are consistent with everything that he said, you know, contrary to what people were speculating on in terms of the tape when you see him cleaned up at the police station, this shows him bleeding with cuts and everything else. i don't know that it's going to be the death knell for the prosecution, but it certainly is something that the defense is going to want to put out there. >> martin's girlfriend was on the phone with him. we played part of that recording. i want to listen to what she said to authorities a little bit more. >> let me make sure i understand. it was trayvon saying that? >> yeah, that's why i was calling his name. >> he was saying what now? >> get off. >> is it clear you were hearing that or you think you heard it? >> no, i could hear him say, get off, get off. >> she said she could hear him say get off, get off. how critical do you think that is from the girlfriend? >> very critical. the girlfriend's testimony is actually compelling. when it comes to a credibility challenge, and there will be a challenge to her credibility because she is so pivotal, people will look at this and the prosecution will point out she could have embellished her statement a great deal more than she did, but she did not. it comes across as extremely forthright and candid and very unembellished. very truthful testimony. she makes a case for them that this was an attack provoked by zimmerman, that he was the one going after trayvon martin, that he was the one that kept pursuing, that he was the one that initiated the confrontation, and very likely initiated a civil confrontation with trayvon martin, bumped him, caused him to drop his phone, and because he made a confrontation, that's going to be very difficult for the defense. >> i'm not sure those statements come in. there are some u.s. supreme court cases recently. i would bet you the defense challenges her ability to testify to what was said in that conversation. >> based on? >> hearse. -- hearsay. you don't have the -- marcia knows what i'm talking about. >> i do, and he's right. mark invite, there is going to be a big challenge, a big fight. i think it comes in as an excited utterance, if you will, on trayvon's part. i think the testimony will be admitted but there will be a big fight to keep it out. >> the fact she didn't come forward, she was kind of tracked down by trayvon martin's father getting the cell phone records, calling the number. does that speak to her credibility at all? >> yes. if it gets in, and part of the challenge is going to be, wait a second, she's going to testify. you can't cross examine the declareant, that being trayvon martin, and the judge may not let it in. but if they do, there will be challenges to her credibility. without destroying her or anything else, there would be a surgical quality to the cross examination to try and show that what she heard and what she remembers hearing was not quite what she thinks it is. >> just very quickly from both of you, marcia, how do you think things look for george zimmerman right now? >> i do think there has been some support for his defense in the release of these latest documents, but anderson, i have to tell you, i look at these injuries and i think, really? are these the injuries of someone who justifiably, reasonably -- that's a really important word here -- reasonably believes that his life was in imminent moral peril. i don't think so. not to me. i could see how this wound on the back of the head could have occurred as a result of him falling, because after he attacks trayvon, trayvon fights back, they both fall to the ground. we know that's true, both sides will concede that. and if trayvon is actually whaling on him which the defense will show, he's going to need more than a quarter inch scratch on his finger. >> if this was any jurisdiction other than a stand your ground jurisdiction like florida, i would say this is going to trial. it would be a no-brainer other than a probable cause shooting. but after seeing this evidence, i think there is a legitimate shot for the defense here to get a ruling that he is immune and that this case doesn't go to trial. it's by no means a slam dunk, but i think there is a shot. >> okay. appreciate it. follow me on facebook and twitter at anderson cooper. let me know what you think about that, mark, and marcia's assessment on anderson cooper. mitt romney is back saying he helped create 100,000 jobs while he was at bain capital. we'll check the facts, when we come back. 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>> no. here's the reality. private equity -- the purpose of private equity is to connect firms that need capital and expertise with investors and 70% of the clients of private equity are endowments, charitable foundations, pension funds, public and private, and together, private equity-backed firms produce or create, back 8 million jobs in this country. that's what private equity does. it returns an investment to the investors and those investors in turn, they are invested in, creates jobs. we are talking about numbers, he should stop talking about numbers. he should just defend private equity and how it is a growth industry, grows jobs, creates jobs and contrast it with the obama policies which are creating growth at under 2%. that is not growth. private equity firms grow at 6% greater than their peer industries, so we should talk about the two concepts, private and public-backed operations. and that's what the campaign should be about, not how many numbers. >> but isn't it odd that he is taking credit for one thing that happened after he left bain but not taking responsibility for something else that happened after he left bain? >> yes, that's probably politically awkward but i'm going to say what i always say. >> okay. >> i would rather have a politically awkward candidate with good policies than a very cool politician that obama is, with horrific, proven failed policies. >> yeah, i would like to gamble like mitt romney does. if i could just go to the craps table and get credit for the money i won and not have to pay the money i lost, i would be a rich man today. i like that accounting that he does. i just wish could i get steve wynn to set up the same way mitt romney does. >> you are saying, james, he is trying to have it both ways? >> of course he is, and he put it at issue. he started talking about central to his campaign, jobs he created at bain. maybe he created some, some got lost. well if you take credit for the ones that you create that were created while you were at bain or after you left bain, then you got to take the responsibility for the ones that you lost. and that's the way it is and that's nothing unfair about pointing that out. if he wants to point out the companies that succeeded, people to the companies that failed. >> which in other conversations, anderson, he has. because that's how the private free enterprise system works. you win some, you lose so you take a risk, you lose some. but the point is not to go out and vampire, as that commercial, that ad is distorting what it's all about. and that's not -- this is not going to be what this campaign is about. it is going to be about how obama's policies have failed. we are not -- people don't care what mitt romney did in a contracting steel industry 20 years ago. they care what obama's not doing today to create jobs. >> james, is it. >> obama has created more jobs now -- >> sorry, james go ahead. >> the truth is he has created more private sector jobs than his predecessor created, romney was 47th out of 50th in job creation and that was after louisiana suffered hurricane katrina, which obviously we had massive job losses. so, romney's record is certainly nothing imminently fair to talk about -- want to talk about obama's job creation record as president, we can talk about his job creation record as governor of massachusetts. that is a totally fair thing to do and i'm sure they will do that. >> is it critical, james, of president obama to attack mitt romney on, you know, basically doing what private equity does, which to mary's point is make money for the investors and sometimes creating jobs, sometimes cutting jobs, doing -- to attack him on that in those ads and then the same day that those ads are released, holding a big fund-raiser with private equity firm here in new york with blackstone? again, if romney would have said i made a lot of money for the people invested in me, that is a totally true thing. romney put it at issue by claiming that he created these jobs without -- without counting the jobs that they lost. again, it's the example of me at the craps table. i don't just get to count what i win, i got to count what i lose, too. it was romney's accounting that put this at issue. if he had said, look, i'm a terrific guy, i will return 23% to my investors and i know how to run a private equity company, obama might have trouble refuting that, but romney put it at issue by making central romney's claim that he only gets to count the jobs that he created, not the jobs that were lost. >> mary, it is true when you look at a private equity firm perspect

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