it in order to avoid a diplomatic showdown at the u.n. this week. the whole world will be watching. but the question tonight is this. where does all this leave israel? joining me now is ehud barak. thank you for joining me. this seems on the face of it to be a very pivotal moment for israel, palestine, for the peace process. what is your take on what is happening? >> it's not easy at the moment. i hope and i believe that a way should be found to make it a launching pad for a new momentum to resume negotiations. no conditions in order to strike a deal. i believe that it's possible. both of us are powerful, two states, two people. i think the differences are not insurmountable. >> the critics argue prime minister netanyahu and yourself, you've been angling for a peace process, for something to happen, for a treaty for a settlement now for decades. and the promises have kept coming, and nothing has happened. is it really that surprising that the palestinians are now going to the u.n. in the way that they are? doesn't there eventually have to be a cutoff point here? >> you know, just 11 years ago i was prime minister of israel and with president clinton we put a far reaching kind of a proposal on the table. arafat at the time rejected it. a few years ago, the then prime minister put an officer and summarily they rejected it. the foreign minister said the palestinians never missed an opportunity to miss an opportunity. i hope it will not repeat itself. until now, we are ready even now. i met with him two or three weeks ago in oman. i met with the palestinian leader. they're serious people, but they have to overcome all resistant from within and from some corners of the other world and move toward real negotiation with no preconditions. we are ready, we'll be there, we'll take care of our security, wee take care of -- we have to take care of our future, especially these volatile, almost volcanic eruptions all around us, but we are ready to make the extra mile and try to reach an agreement. >> the general view appears to be that israel has never felt more isolated because of the arab spring uprising, but that's perfectly understandable that your own security is at stake and you're right in the center of that, you're the defense minister. but rick perry today, the republican candidate for the nomination, a man who may be president within a year has come out today with some pretty strong statements. let me just play you what he said. >> we're equally indignant of the obama administration and their middle east policy of appeasement that has encouraged such an ominous act of bad faith. >> i mean, appeasement is a very strong word to use. do you agree with what rick perry said? >> i don't understand exactly what he meant, in what context he's -- >> let me read you exactly the contents. he said we are indignant that certain middle eastern leaders have discarded the principle of direct negotiation between the sovereign nation of israel and the palestinian leadership. and we are equally indignant that the obama administration's apiecement has encouraged such an ominous act of bad faith. >> i don't think the obama administration encouraged the attitude of the palestinians. i think they are genuinely trying to promote peace and to bring both sides with all due deference to bring them together and to push it. i should tell you honestly that the obama administration is backing the security of israel for which i'm responsible in our government in a way that could hardly be compared to any previous administration. >> is barack obama, in your view -- and you're very experienced in this -- is he a friend of israel? >> i think first of all, he's president of america. he will be friendly to israel, especially security related issues. he's also trying, to the best of my judgment, to be even handed with the palestinian. i don't think he's part of the problem. he's part of the solution and should be. but it's up to us and mainly to our counterpart, the palestinian leadership, mahmoud abbas and to others to show the leadership and start to move. the issue cannot be solved by the american president. it should be solved by the players on the ground with certain support from the rest of the world, which i believe obama is trying to provide. >> if what you're saying is all accurate, then president obama clearly is not, in your eyes, somebody who is appeasing the palestinians. is it, therefore, dangerous for rick perry to come out with statements like this? is it inflammatory? >> i think that i do not pretend to enter into the american political debate. i don't think that appeasement is an accurate description of the policy of this administration. >> is it unhelpful? rick perry is way ahead in the polls to be the republican nominee. president obama's approval rating is quite low. it is likely that rick perry might be the next president of the united states. therefore he's incredibly important. if he comes out with these kind of statement, isn't that dangerous? >> that's up to the american people whoever you will vote for as your next president. it is not up to us. i don't pretend even to involve in it. but i'm a great fan of honesty in ppolitics. i'm not a great believer in polls. but it's beyond us. we expect any american president, from whatever side of the political aisle, to be basically pro-israel in the sense that he might always recognize the common ground t common basis of values, it puts certain responsibilities on ourselves to behave accordingly. it puts a certain responsibility on you. but i believe that we have a much wider support for israel basic cause than could be described through politic glasses or eyeglasses. >> i interviewed prime minister net ma na hue in israel this year. a fascinating encounter in many ways. i suged to him isn't it time that he, being prime minister twice now and gotten no nearer a peace deal, is it not time for what i would call the sadat moment or somebody on the israeli side, and currently it would be him, with your assistance, to be the bigger man here, to be the one that takes the biggest step that is perhaps as popular with your own people, with your own party. in other words, put peace manufacture politics. the moment the palestinians are circumnavigating you to the united nations, is it not the time that many people are crying out for you and netanyahu to get together and say, we're going to make this happen, we're going to do a deal, we're going to take more pain in negotiation than we would wish to because the bigger picture is more important? >> i believe prime minister netanyahu genuinely believes in the need to move forward and ready to take the risks to pay the painful price. >> what is the risk that you think is palatable? what is the risk that you're talking about? >> you know, israel, we, for example, we pulled out under my order as a prime minister from lebanon. after staying there for 18 years. under international recognition that there is a resolution. so it ended up being the place from where 45,000 rockets and missiles are aimed at our population including the main central areas of israel like tell veefb. we pulled out from gaza, the last soldier and settler. we end up now with 10,000 rockets aimed at the -- >> here's my problem. not my problem. if there is a problem -- >> believe me. just try to think of 50,000 rockets aimed at manhattan or washington, d.c. >> i totally understand. >> with major focus of attention -- >> nobody disputes that israel has massive security issues. nobody disputes that living under the threat of rockets and everything is an intolerable pressure that you've had to bear. nobody disputes it. but nobody disputes that the oppression that many sooe sew of so many palestinians, millions of palestinians, like the gaza strip, it can't go on. that this impasse has to end. there has to be a finish to this. that's where people look to you and to prime minister netanyahu and say you've been around the block a long time on this. this is a time for you to make the big move. i'll read you what was a fascinating article by thomas friedman, pretty damning about the administration in israel. he said i've never been more worried about israel's future. the crumbling of key pillars of israel's security, the peace with egypt and stability of syria and jordan coupled with the most diplomatically inept and strategically incompetent government in israel's history have put israel in a very dangerous situation. strong words. >> i appreciate tom friedman, but the developments in the arab world, what's called the arab spring, a political weaken we have not witnessed since the ottoman empire is not something created by us or caused by a conflict with palestinians. it would happen and is something which is beyond our control. it mike take place anyhow. we should not hold ourself responsible for whatever happens in the arab world. on the other hand, if you mentioned gaza. you know, in gaza strip we are no more an effective holder of the area. there is hamas government. we gave it to the fatah. and they lost it in a coup d'etat to hamas terror organization with no ground to talk about. hamas doesn't control half of his own people when it comes to talking on their behalf. it is nol not that simple. believe me. if it were much simpler, it would have been already behind us. it's a difficult issue to solve. we have to be responsible for our security. we have a contract with our civilian population to protect them against things that are happening day and night all around us. >> hold that thought. >> we have to do it. >> hold that thought. let's come back after the break and discuss specific click the effects of the arab spring on israel and its security. capital one's new cash rewards card gives you a 50% annual bonus! so you earn 50% more cash. according to research, everybody likes more cash. well, almost everybody... ♪ would you like 50% more cash? 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[ professor ] good morning students. today, we're gonna... at rfeel strongly abouttes personal service. all 27,000 of them. maybe that's why we keep winning personal service awards. hey, you should meet a few. there's stephanie and jack - now he's a great business banker, jose and michael, (bike bell) tamika . she's great. back now with ehud barak who is israeli defense minister and former prime minister. talk to me about the arab spring. we touched on that earlier. but clearly an extraordinary few months for the region. i mean, this is a kind of activity that would normally take generations to happen and it happened in a few months. right in the middle of it is israel. most people feel absolute sympathy with the sense that israel must feel of really being isolated, of being vulnerable, of being surrounded by almost constant instability. what is it like to be the israeli defense minister in the middle of all this? >> it's clear we have to rely upon ourselves, that it's a tough neighborhood. no mercy for the weak, no second opportunity for those who cannot defend themselves. and in a moment of truth -- and we looked very carefully on egypt and tunisia, on libya, on syria, it's clear to us. we will have to stand alone. so we have to be strong and self-confident and well trained and well equipped. and with regard to the americans helping out this administration, extremely consistently but at the same time we have to be open-eyed. the events are beyond our control. i compare it to the need to cross a wide river. you cannot just close your eyes, say the lord is with us and you cannot say, okay, nothing could be done. you have to enter into it, use these -- how you call this, to pull to navigate and to take enough time. you cannot change the direction of the whole stream, but you can choose the point of launching of your crossing attempt in a way that will help you to navigate. we have to be work, we have to be active. we shouldn't be paralyzed like a rabbit under the lights of the -- >> let me ask you, do you think that people in the west have a slightly fanciful notion of what the arab spring has actually been in the sense that -- the reason i ask that, take somewhere like egypt where there's this huge uprising. 18 days there's a huge revolution. everyone else gets on with their lives. but egypt carries on. what appears to be happening now, is the islam brotherhood, the extreme ends, appear to be seizing more and more political influence and power. is that's what's really concerning you? are you wored you'll end up with a whole lot of iraqs? >> i feel the pain for mubarak. he served his country as an exemplary man for year. but once it happens, it is an inspiring moment, a moving moment for egypt to be standing on its feet and the people demanding their basic rights. but that's promising in the long term. but in the short term it will be very tough. remember the french revolution. the arab societies will go through ups and downs, quite violent periods and probably the muslim brotherhood will take place. there's no basic right for democracy. you cannot expect an intellectual like vaclav havel as the leader. it will be a strong battle between basically the armed forces and the muslim brotherhood. >> like i said, do you worry that you may end up with a series of mini-irans coming out of this arab spring where you have the islamists basically controlling these countries in a way they never have before? >> first of all, we are worried, but a person cannot choose his parents and a nation cannot choose its neighbors. they are whoever they are. these are our neighbors. we prefer to have the canadians as our neighbors, but you got them. >> not every american's happy about that. >> for the foreseeable future, the strongest country a thousand miles around you from libya to tehran. and we are aware of it. we know that part of it is out of the generosity and the far-sightedness of american presidents including president obama. at the same time we understand thatty welcome not ask someone else to protect us. we should be ready to do it on our own and protect the future and the population of israel against any threat from the whole region. >> you're a man of history. i mean, this is the time, isn't it, when you have u.n. now greeting the palestinians. whatever comes out of these votes, and we're not quite sure how it's all going to play out. but the whole arab spring uprisings, everything has moved the game on for israel and palestine. this is the time to do this deal, isn't it? >> it was the time ten years and 20 years. but ever more so i cannot say that it's now or never. we cannot control history. i have nothing against the legitimacy of a palestinian state. we say loud and clear we are for two states for two nations. a secure and protectable or defendable israel side by side with the demilitarized palestinian vibrant state. >> you rightly referred to the great counter you had with president clinton that nearly led to a deal. you said that yasser arafat in the end blocked it when many thought it was going to happen. and president clinton felt very frustrated by that. i'm sure you did, too. do you feel after all these decades you dealt with palestinian leadership, that the current leadership, even if they don't have complete control over all the elements with the palestinians, do you feel there's more chance now of doing a deal with the paper at the head, palestinian leadership, than you've had in your lifetime? >> only time will tell. >> does your gut instinct tell you that? >> it will have to be proven. but hamas is much worse than what they've done in the past. and some others around him are sincere and genuine palestinian leaders who genuinely reject terror. and that's great. hamas, that's the opposite. and some have to find a way to oppress, to suppress, to eliminate politically the hamas influence on their destiny. i think that they deserve the -- it's not the benefit of the -- they deserve the opportunity to prove that they are ready, we expect them to come to the table and let's negotiate both the bottom up aspect that fayad and the op down aspect on an open table with no precondition, trying sincerely, genuinely to overcome. it will be painful, but it is surmountable. i do not buy the idea that either the palestinians or our needs can make it impossible to be bridged. >> minister, thank you very much. >> thank you. up next, a man who is not afraid to say what he thinks about anything or anybody. "x factor" mastermind simon cowell. ♪ [ male announcer ] we're not employers or employees. not white collar or blue collar or no collars. we are business in america. and every day we awake to the same challenges. but at prudential we're helping companies everywhere find new solutions to manage risk, capital and employee benefits, so american business can get on with business. ♪ so american business can get on with business. ♪ priceis it true thata-tor. name your own price.... >>...got even easier? affirmative. we'll show you other people's winning hotel bids. >>so i'll know how much to bid... ...and save up to 60% >>i'm in i know see winning hotel bids now at priceline. the last time simon cowell was here he described it as utter torture and his worst nightmare. with the arrival of the u.s. version of "x factor." it is my chance to welcome him back for another grilling. welcome. >> i'm actually thrilled to be back here. >> don't lie. >> nothing to do with the fact that we're promoting the show. i just wanted to be here. you know that. >> of course. typically selfless. this is it for you? i've known you 20 years, and you have been incredibly successful for most of that time with some pleasing failures along the way well suspect but here you are at the moment. i think knowing you well, it's the biggest moment of your career. am i right? >> yes, yes, it is the biggest moment of my career. i kind of knew what we were getting involved in before we did this. but you're never quite prepared for it. the week before, night before. it's kind of terrifying. i like it. >> someone supremely self-confident like you, how nervous are you? >> well, if you remember, when you and i first started working together on "britain's got talent," god only knows how that happened. >> you hired me. >> i know, but -- god only knows how that happened. i remember going into the audition room for that first time. and i was genuinely petrified because i didn't know if it was going to work or not. then when the show came out the first night, we got the worst reviews. >> yeah. not great ratings. >> not great ratings. >> yeah. >> so i always put myself in that position, but the only thing that gives me confidence each time is when i watch the show back. i know when i've made a good show or bad show. this time we've made a good show. >> how does it differ from the british one, if at all. and from what you've edited so far, how confident are you that it's going to be a big hit? >> it's like comparing you and i. we're both guys, we're both british, but there's a massive difference between how people respond to you and people respond to me. >> great love and affection. utter horror. >> absolutely the other way around. and the show is like that. i