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CNNW Starting Point April 13, 2012



technology, the rocket technology to put a satellite into space, which therefore implies that they have the technology that would be able to deliver a police tick missile basically to anywhere on the earth. they have not proved that today, obviously. they haven't proved it in any of their three previous attempts to prove it. basically, four missile tests, four rocket launches for zero. that's the first thing. they haven't proven they've got the rocket. the security council is going to have to make some kind of response. we'll have to see how strong that response is. in the past previous two tests they made, when the u.n. security council said strongly to the north koreans, who insisted they had every right to do these kinds of tests, then went ahead and did a nuclear test. whether they did it this time, there are speculations. there are thoughts the underground facility is being prepared for such a test. if that happens, that will be very serious. >> tim schwarz joining us with what happens next. what happened the night george zimmerman killed trayvon martin. the affidavit of probable cause appeared just hours after zimmerman appeared at the seminole county jail. the affidavit is the prosecution's version of what happened that night. but according to the affidavit, martin was, quote, on his way back to the townhouse where he was living when he was profiled by george zimmerman. there's also the 911 call. the prosecutors say a "police dispatcher informed zimmerman that an officer was on the way and to wait for the officer." it goes on to say, "zimmerman confronted martin, and a struggle ensued. zimmerman shot martin in the chest." zara is an attorney who defended george zimmerman before back in 2005 and 2006. it's nice to see you again. thanks for joining us. >> thank you. >> i just read the affidavit, and they say this is bare bones. we should underscore it's the prosecution's version, but what sticks out to you in this affidavit? >> well, soledad, what i think is interesting is the word profiling. i don't think there's evidence of profiling. in the 911 tape george zimmerman is saying things about trayvon he thinks he sees him doing, nothing about his race. he sees him acting suspicious, carrying something in his hand, as well as looks like he's on drugs. those are the words that george uses. there's nothing about his race. so i don't know where the prosecutor is getting the profiling part. that's going to be interesting to see. >> in the 911 call that we've all listened to many times on this panel, he does point out several times in the description of him that he's black, and he also sort of says he looks and describes as what he would define as suspicious activities. in an affidavit like this to sort of prove what charges you're going to go for, second degree murder, do you have to lay out the specifics, or do you have to really sort of say we're going to try to prove the case around profiling. i agree. that word stuck out to me too. >> you do have to talk about the elements of the crime. you have to show a depraved mind. and the prosecutor is going to try to show, soledad, that just to say somebody has a hoody or something in their hand is not a depraved mind. on the other hand, george is going to say, hey, he was acting suspicious, acting like he was on drugs. we haven't heard why george thought this person acted like they were doing something criminal, acting like he was on drugs. that's going to be interesting once we hear george's version. so, yes, we've got to see that. good morning. >> is it not fair to say, however, that, even if he wasn't using a racial slur, and many of us do hear that word and not the word punks, the very fact that he was calling this man the words he was using and the profanities and calling him a punk, if that's what he chose, shows that he was profiling, that mr. zimmerman had passed judgment on this man without breaking any laws. >> but he passed judgment seeing someone he thought was engaged in a criminal act. >> walking? >> he says he looks like he's on drugs. we haven't heard why does george think that? all of us have observed people under the influence of alcohol and drugs. we haven't heard what was he doing that made george think that. that's what made george suspicious, and the prosecutor is going to say, well, that's not enough. everything you saw was innocent details. >> forgive me for interrupting, but i'm just curious. is this something that's the centerpiece of the case as we move forward? and a prosecutor would have to prove that. or are you saying the fact that we don't see it in the affidavit -- which i think everybody kind of agrees it's very bare boned -- is an indication of a big problem for the prosecution? >> the prosecutor, soledad, is going to absolutely have to show that. how else are they going to prove the element depraved mind? they're going to have to show that george's belief was completely unreasonable, and that shows in and of itself a depraved mind. and that's going to be a tough thing, a very tough thing. >> are you surprised it's not in this affidavit, or is this affidavit -- to me, the affidavit seems so bare bones it gave me the sense -- and you guys can jump in and tell me if i'm wrong. that he's essentially trying to leave it vague. there's nothing in the affidavit. let me tell you what alan de dershowitz, the noted defense attorney said. >> an affidavit is supposed to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. this affidavit is perfectly consistent with self-defense. it doesn't even state the elements of a crime. of course, you don't have to say very much in an affidavit showing probable cause, but this doesn't even satisfy that minimal standard. >> does it satisfy the minimal standard in your mind? >> all they need to do is show probable cause. soledad, probable cause is not proof beyond a reasonable doubt. that's the prosecutor's burden at trial. she just needs probable cause for an arrest. so it might be the bare bones minimum. it's not going to get the case dismissed at this point. i'm sure the prosecutor is waiting to bring forth all of their evidence at a much later time. >> at some point there will be a stand your ground hearing. some have suggested that, in fact, that actually could be another moment in which all this ends. you could have the case tossed after the stand your ground hearing, do you think? >> that's absolutely correct. the defendant will file a motion, and they just have to show it by preponderance of the evidence that they are entitled to that defense, and then the state can try to rebut that at that hearing and say, judge, do not grant this motion. let this go to a hearing, a trial. there's just not enough there for the defendant has not met their burden. >> forgive me. i feel like you're walking me through law 101. forgive me. the stand your ground defense, you don't actually have to prove that you were fearing for your life. you just have to -- you don't necessarily have to be at risk for your life. you have to prove that you were afraid for your life. is that correct? >> right. he may have been wrong, but he has to believe that he was facing serious bodily injury or death. his version is he wasn't wrong. his version is trayvon struck at him and tried to hurt him. so he's going to stick with his version. in the beginning, we weren't sure what his version was. whether or not trayvon attempted to hit him. he now has said, no, trayvon was attempting to punch him, struggle. there is evidence to decide that he is entitled to a defense. >> his burden of proof under this stand your ground law is he just has to be fearing for his life. he doesn't have to prove that realistically he should be fearing for his life, he just has to prove that he was fearing for his life. >> exactly. the prosecutor is going to say that under the circumstances he's the one who instigated the whole thing. the prosecutor is going to say he's the one who confronted trayvon, came up to trayvon, not the other way around. remember, soledad, george's version is trayvon approached him and came up to him and said, do you have a problem with me? so we have two versions completely factually different. >> quick final question for you. no bond at this point. are you surprised that he's going to continue to stay in jail, or would you expect that for a little while? >> i do expect that for a little while. that's very common. it's very unusual to get a bond for a crime punish by life at an initial appearance. now it's up to the defense attorney to file a bond motion and get that heard before the judge as soon as possible. so it's very possible we will have a bond hearing as early as next week. >> right. zahra walking us through this case. we appreciate it. nice to see you, as always. >> thank you, soledad. >> let's get right to kate bolduan. she's filling in for christine with the headlines. >> good morning to you, soledad. good morning, everyone. an all night armed standoff comes to an end this morning with two suspects found dead. the man and woman faced off with police at a home in greenland, new hampshire. police had come to the home earlier in the night as part of a drug investigation. a shootout broke out, and the police chief was actually killed. four other officers were injured. the suspects were killed in either a murder/suicide or a double suicide. gunned down police chief michael maloney was only days away from retirement. there are only ten officers in that town. and democratic strategist hilary rosen apologizes for saying ann romney never worked a day in her life. the remark about a stay at home mom of five and grandmother of 16 angered republicans and democrats. president obama weighed in saying that doesn't reflect what he believes at all, using his wife and mother as examples. >> there's no tougher job than being a mom. and when i think about what michelle's had to do, when i think about my own mom, a single mother raising me and my sister, that's work. >> and get this one, the hero mayor deserves a key to his own city this morning. newark, new jersey mayor cory booker saves the life of a woman trapped in her burning home. booker says he came home to find his neighbor's house in flames. he raced in, snatched her out of bed, and carried her outside. tweeted about it later saying, "thanks to all who are concerned. just suffering some smoke inhalation. we got the woman out of the house. we are both off to the hospital. i will be okay." quite a story, though. and using your money to reward a quote, unquote, jackass and score free meals. the scandal at the general services administration seems to only be growing. it all started with the news that the agency in charge of saving taxpayer dollars was partying it up in vegas at a lavish conference that cost more than $800,000. well, now, new transcripts from an inspector general's report shows or suggests, at least, that officials created a jackass award as an excuse to hold ceremonies that included taxpayer funded dinners. cnn received documents from the house oversight committee that also show there was a five-day conference for interns at a resort in palm springs reportedly included sweets and a catered awards dinner yet again. next hour, we talk to roll call reporter jonathan strong who's been investigating this scandal and reveals even more on this spending spree. and we're not at hogwarts anymore apparently. jk rowling's new book has been revealed. it will be called the casual vacancy. it's reportedly described as a black comedy for adults. it's rowling's first book since the harry potter series. it will be released september 27th. we'll have to see if there's as much excitement about this series or this book at least. >> that's a lot of pressure, isn't it? >> sure is. >> you go from being the zillion dollar best seller to eh. hopefully, she'll do well. i'd read it. >> i'm definitely going to read t i'm sure she's got a lot of pressure on her. ahead this morning on "starting point," the nfl bounty snitch, as some are calling him, revealed. there's a man who's been outed as the whistleblower on that bounty story, taking lots of heat this morning. we're going to talk to the writer who has outed the guy. also, the dollar bill, don't have to pay for coke anymore. just open your arms and give a hug. i actually love this idea. hug your vending machine and get a coke. and if you're about to head to work and don't want to miss the rest of the show, follow our live blog at cnn.com/startingpoint. here's john's play list. 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and that's pretty cool. ♪ new developments in that pay for play bounty scandal. new orleans coach joe vit is now the interim head coach. but this coach is the one that everyone is talking about. he's a former quality control coach. his name is mike ciriullo. he's being called the snitch who outed the bounty scandal. as a former whistleblower, he's outed him. thanks for talking with me. >> thanks for having me. feel how this one goes. >> are you getting a lot of flack? do you feel like people are piling on? >> actually, there's not. most of it has been okay. the reception down in new orleans really, i know a lot of people think that they'd appreciate this. they really don't. i'll go to my grave believing the bounty scandal is not quite what it is and these are really nice guys. i can tell you, after i got off the radio the other day, there was no warm and fuzzy with the people at the saints practice facility. they don't want this. >> when you say the bounty scandal is not what it is, what do you mean? >> i don't want to go into great detail because i think it's something that should be put to rest pretty soon, but i know these guys. i know the guys that are being put out of football for a while by the league. if they don't want mike cerullo's name run around and damaged, they don't want anybody to get hurt. it shows that nobody got hurt and no bags of money were exchanged. >> watch me through this. as much as you know i love new orleans, and i root for the saints all the time. football is not necessarily my greatest strength. so you name mike cerullo as the whistleblower. what was your proof for that? you did it on a show. >> the name had been bounced around a lot. there was a perfect storm of information for me. until i moved to los angeles a few months ago, i lived in connecticut, which is where he was working a couple of years after leaving the saints. i also work in many fields, as you know. i'm becoming the president of national lampoon this week and a lot of other business ventures that i'm in. and someone from completely outside of football, they called me a while back and asked me about him. i didn't even know who he was. i had to look him up and see who he was. for a reason i don't feel like going into anymore, i was given his name and some information about him and that he was the informant. i'd like to apologize for my radio interview, for calling mike cerullo a snitch. i should know better. he was an informant or a whistleblower. >> your apology is you named him wrong versus naming him at all. >> no, he's the right guy. he is the guy. i believe he's the guy, and i'm here taking my heat. he's going to take some heat as well. but i should have been a little more professional than to call him a snitch. you know, football and sports are supposed to be community building and positives. and unfortunately, this is negative, and what i feel really bad about is that i got carried away. my personal animosity towards this guy made it my opinions and my voice on it a little stronger than it should have been. >> why did you have personal animosity on it? >> i'm a saints fan, and these are my friends, and i got a little riled up. i wanted to find out who he was. i researched. i made sure that it was him. it is him. nobody's denying that it's him. and i was a little more aggravated in that interview that i did the other day than i've ever been. all the interviews i did about my book "patron saints" have been positive. i like being positive. i like making people laugh. frankly, being this negative and seeing the negative things i said inflamed in the community and online has been rather sickening to me. you guys are the hard news -- yeah. >> i'm sorry for interrupting. i wanted to read the comment from university of connecticut, which is cerullo left the saints in 2010, and he works at uconn. it looks like he's up for a job, i think it's at princeton. they said this. they had no comment really. "neither mike cerullo nor the university will comment on the subject. the matter is based on speculation by the media which does not warrant comment." do you worry that you've hurt his opportunities? again, your apology is because you called him a snitch versus saying he's not the guy. >> he is one of the guys, if not the only guy, yes. >> why are you mad? i mean, you know it, when i heard the story -- again, i am not the greatest football fan even though i love the idea that everybody in new orleans dresses up and wears saints gear on game day. i think it's fantastic. but to me, the whole idea of the bounty system just seems so horrific and so antithetical to what you talk about, community building and the game itself. why are you not enraged that that bounty system was happening? >> because i don't really believe it did, as being described. >> really? >> i think -- there's no court of law with the national football league, ands that the way that functions. roger goodell made his decisions. the saints presented their case. and because it's the nfl, you don't get to see what it was. but i'm telling you, i know the guys that are accused, gregg williams. sean payton, i work with sean's foundation. i've been down there. the good they've done in that community can't be quantified. and that this happened is unfortunate. whatever is being said is being taken this way. but, look, they're taking phenomenal penalties. for an nfl coach to sit out for a year, for mickey loomis, the general manager, one of the greatest men i've known in the field at any time, to be out for eight games, to be humiliated like that, they're suffering. everyone should move on. it won't happen again. the good, long-term benefits is now there will be clear rules on what bounty systems can be done. if it's going on anywhere else in the nfl, it won't. >> you actually calm out and revealed mr. cerullo's name because former tight end shocky was rumored to be the whistleblower. now that you've revealed this, are rumors that shockey is the whistleblower is gone? >> i'm not a friend of jeremy shockey's -- >> you've said several times this morning that we're not getting the general picture. you know gregg williams. i am a football fan. i've heard the tapes. if we're mis

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