of. ayman donald trump's gag order in the federal election case to reinstate, it we're gonna have the latest details in just a moment. then even more legal troubles for the ex president. his entire family about to take the stand in his civil fraud trial. and mike pence goes out with a whimper. our farewell to the man who barely made a dent in the 2024 presidential race. i'm even mohegan let's get started. we begin this hour with our breaking news, the judge overseeing donald trump's federal election subversion criminal case has reinstated a gag order she issued on the ex president just earlier this month tanya chutkan also denied trump's request to issue a long term stay of the order which bars him from publicly targeting court personnel, potential witnesses or the special counsel's team while his appeal played out. she originally issued the order after prosecutors raise concerns that the ex president could intimidate witnesses or encourage harm against prosecutors through his public comments. at this hour donald trump now faces to gag orders barring him from discussing his legal cases in the public. here's one from check-in who is overseeing the case by jack smith and washington d. c.. the second one that is from a judges overseeing the civil fraud trial here in new york. now while the orders are both limited in their scope they've a measurable limit on donald trump's speech in his ability to attack the court. here to discuss this is durban reuben. former manhattan prosecutor jennifer horn former new hampshire publican party chair and writer and editor for msnbc daily. jordan i'd like to start with you as a former prosecutor. your reaction to this news with this on trump's gag order basically reinstating it. do you think a particular reason she did this right now it's not surprising for a couple reasons because it was her order in the first place. it would be more surprising she to complete reversals like no you're right trump. so in that respect isn't surprising. trump hasn't done himself any favors while this is being litigated. over the last week with this gag order another case he's been fined twice. so between that and him going after mark meadows as well and the federal election subversion case he hasn't done himself any favors so the judge isn't gonna immediately reversed her own order coupled with trump making it worse from self as usual it's not surprising that he reinstated it. >> prosecutors argued in favor of listening this because trump was attacking individuals associated with the case and now we have that decision. if he continues that behavior i think that suggested he probably will continue with this commentary rhetoric threats against the judge and other members of the court. what happens next if he violates that? >> there are bunch of options on the table. it came up while it was being litigated in obviously that includes penalties up to imprisonment. as we see it play out the new york case those penalties are necessarily being imposed. there was a 5000 dollar fine then a 10,000 dollar fine. so that same approach is going to be what this judge is gonna take there's gonna be very little incentive for trump to keep quiet about the things that are supposedly dangerous. so whatever tools she has just gonna have to impose them more forcefully than judge engoron has been if she wants the order to have teeth. jennifer mike pence excluded from the original order because he was running against trump for president. however some political developments this weekend. he has announced he is out of the race. how should the order reply to him now that he is not a political participant and simply an ordinary citizen who is potentially a witness to an alleged crime. >> i suppose if the judge wanted to have this order applied to every person in this case who could potentially testify against donald trump or have some say or influence it would have to be much less limited. i would have to be much more expansive than that i don't see it going in that direction she hasn't shown any inclination her points have kind of been to hold things back a little bit and not overreact, i don't know if that's the right word but it's so important this gag order even in its limited scope is so important. what we know from history is that donald trump when he starts playing games and is out there with this wild and dangerous rhetoric he does have supporters that will become violent and take action his words to put other people in danger. and i suppose mike pence would love to be included in this gag order but i don't see anything so far that's come out from this judge that would suggest that she's gonna expanded any further at least not right now. donald trump has called jackson's a thug, a deranged lunatic call them very biased and unfair. i suspect those are far from the only insults that we are going to hear from him going forward. if anyone else was attacking figures like that, the truth is there would be a lot more trouble than a gag order, no the facts of this gag order and jack smith was arguing that it should be reimposed as a condition. the fact that in this case going into this the fact that the fines are so small, like jordan is pointing out especially considering how much wealth he has. will you or i would be pretty upset about going $15,000 to the court. trump can remake that the issuing a fund raising email saying can you believe what the spice judge in new york is doing to me. that is chump change to him if it were someone who is not a previous president, for violating the gag order as clearly as he has they would be back in jail. they would be seen as having violated the conditions of their release and should not be out and able to make these threats against witnesses and members of the court. the judge had actually given donald trump, not the benefit of the day but she was willing to entertain his stay and granted the stay until us worked up. she clearly did not have patients for it after what he did earlier this week. walk me through what happens next. the gag orders reinstated but as i understand this process will still go forward and we expect that decision. how long will it take in what could they possibly decide. >> the next thing is trump appealing this temporary denial to the court so trying to get the order back on pause. trump had it down as litigation is playing out. that's something we'll want to look out over the coming week. that's probably the next action we're going to see well a more long-lasting order happens from the appeals court. i think we'll see this stay litigation and pause because trump is gonna want to try to get the appeals court to put the pause back on will they consider the ultimate decision whether this gag orders lawful in the first place. >> how do you see this newly reimposed gag order affecting the gop primary. we know the president's going to say, he's going to say as he said before that they're trying to limit my free speech there trying to hurt me. but the truth is they have said this specifically that the president has the right to say whatever he wants to say even politically about this case, he just doesn't have a right to threaten the personnel of the court and witnesses. >> the problem that the judge is addressing here is that donald trump is targeting very specific people in certain circumstances. frankly i think it will have very little impact on the primary. his opponents in this primary have already defended him and his right to free speech in suggested that this gag order is inappropriate in that manner it won't impact trump's own supporters. it won't impact the general gop base even those who are not specifically supporting him right now they also look at donald trump as the leader of the party. they will back to his wishes and his statements and when he says his right to free speech is being infringed upon, they will back him up. just like when he says the election was stolen, even though we know wasn't. they still back him up. frankly, i don't think this will impact his position or the way anybody else in this primary is dealing with them. >> your thoughts that mike pence is out of the race, and how that impacts how he may approach the jacks mitt case. >> could he potentially now since he's not someone seeking voters. -- >> we flip against the president. >> everyone on the show tonight would be a huge fan of that happening. will actually happen though. i don't know. mike, pence the fact he had to drop out for doing the right thing. even in his book, the most recent book the fact that he still skirted over how bad it really wasn't truly horrifying it is. the president was saying to cheat basically and keep him office. pence could once again surprise us and do the right thing. especially now that he has no real upside to continuing to downplay what happened. he has given testimony before his folk in the special counsel solely be a witness at the trial i don't know? but the chances are higher now i will say. >> i panel please stick around don't go anywhere we have a lot more to discuss after the break. we will shift to another trump case as the ex president and his children are set to testify in the civil fraud trial this week. who is here at the headlines. >> good to see you some of the stories we are watching for you over 1000 people gathered this evening. remember the 18 victims of wednesday shooting in maine. they packed a church for the ceremony was someone monitors outside this is the first official city event after the days of locked in off the manhunt. >> now 48 with six people missing the hurricane hit acapulco mexico as a category five storm leaving residents without power or communication. and initial autopsy result is inconclusive pending a toxicology report in the left friends actor matthew perry. he was found after a drowning in a hot tub yesterday and at some of the palisades area and southern california. there is no apparent foul play. he 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to get an $800 prepaid card with a qualifying internet bundle. comcast business, powering possibilities. here's why you should switch fo to duckduckgo on all your devie duckduckgo comes with a built-n engine like google, but it's pi and doesn't spy on your searchs and duckduckgo lets you browse like chrome, but it blocks cooi and creepy ads that follow youa from google and other companie. and there's no catch. it's fre. we make money from ads, but they don't follow you aroud join the millions of people taking back their privacy by downloading duckduckgo on all your devices today. >> donald trump is about to have the worst legal week of his life. that might sound hyperbolic to you, but i just want you to consider this for a moment. we've got the new york attorney general letitia james and her 250 million dollar -- trump in his real estate empire that will force the ex president and three of his oldest children to the witness stand, starting this coming week. donald trump jr., a codefendant and the case, is expected to testify this wednesday, november 1st. this brother eric also a codefendant, will testify the very next day. ivanka trump will testify on friday november 3rd, and the family patriarch himself will testify the following monday, november 6th. new york attorney general alleges that the -- financial statements that were given to banks, insurers, and others to help secure loans and deals. trump denies any wrongdoing and is called the trial a politically motivated sham. but, the case could strip trump of some of his corporate holdings and key properties like trump tower. this week's schedule -- blockbuster stretching the child, because the attorney generals office knows that, the prosecution plans to rest its case asked after trump testifies. speaking of, aside from his three minute appearance on the stand this week to answer questions about violating a gag order, donald trump hasn't testified in open court in a decade. and his children are the most significant witnesses yet. not just because of their family ties to donald trump, but also because of their current or former stature within the trump organization. ivanka trump worked as the executive vice president of the company for years until she left to work in the trump white house. letitia james claims that she had her own hand in the fraud, saying, quote, miss trump called misleading financial statements to be submitted to deutsche bank and the federal government. according to new york officials, as trump's -- fraudulent net worth to save him as much as 100 and $50 million on $400 million worth of deutsche bank loans. ivanka will also likely be asked -- historic old post office property in washington, which trump later converted into a luxury hotel. then, there's don junior and eric, who are still actually running the company to this day. both are his trustees and executive vice presidents. all three children not only have intimate knowledge of donald trump's allegedly shady business dealings, but they're also accused of actively participating in those allegedly shady dealings. it's no surprise that trump's been lashing out at judge arthur engoron and on his fail social media site. he spent the last -- any kind of accountability, running away from fines, or any kind of government oversight, legal punishment, but finally, thanks to the new york attorney letitia james, there's nowhere left for him to run, and nowhere left for him to hide. let's bring back my panel to break all this down. jordan, i'll start with you. what can we expect ivanka does take the stand? how damaging could her testimony before trump in her brothers? >> quite damaging, and i think the prospect of earthbound testimony from the entire trump family is going to make this an even spookier halloween week for them than it was going to be already. as you rightfully pointed out, when we talk about the trump children, these aren't just people who happened to be related to a guy who runs this big business. they're in the business themselves. don and eric now, and ivanka formerly. but importantly to their, as the attorney general has pointed out, she still retains an interest. that's part of what made it impossible for her to get out of testifying, even though she's no longer a defendant in the case itself. so i think we got gonna see four of them is having to walk this tightrope -- not wanting to commit perjury, but not wanting to essentially turn on their father, but it's really turning on themselves to, to the extent that they either do or could in a more tangential way have an interest in the family business. so how they're gonna talk that type road remains to be seen this week, but this is what i'll be looking out for. >> very quickly, jordan, how do you as a prosecutor ensure that they don't commit perjury? because the logical convention would be that if these aren't shareholders or have a big important stake and executive vice presidents in the company as is the case with the two sons, you would think the logical wisdom would be that they would want to protect whatever they may have done in the past by any means necessary. how do you, as a prosecutor, ensure that they are going to tell a truthful, honest testimony, and not lie on the stand? >> so, one of the reasons that we might see something more truthful from them then we might otherwise think is, remember, before this trial even started, they lost a huge chunk of this case and already being found liable for the ongoing fraud. really what we're seeing play out in the trial are some other aspects of that fraud, and also how much they're gonna have to pay for it. but i think the fact that they're already in so much trouble really only leads them so much wiggle room to shield the company. there's not a lot of room that they have. we could wind up actually seeing some significant, what else seem like, emissions from them, and maybe they will be, but an important thing to remember is that they've lost a big part of this case before the trial has even started. >> interesting. very important reminder there. jennifer, it's one thing for trump to downplay his relationship with witnesses like michael cohen. he's even doing it with cases in georgia, with jen ellis saying he doesn't know who these people are, more or less the fact. but he can't say that about his own kids. he can't say that in trial, and certainly not in the court of public opinion, when he had his daughter with him at the white house, and he's boasted about his children all of his life. >> sure. you would think so. you would think so. >> it sounds like you think there might be an opportunity for him to throw them under the bus. >> absolutely he will throw them under the bus if he thinks it will benefit him. that's exactly where i was headed. you know, are you suggesting you can't imagine donald trump saying, oh, junior never told me about that, oh, eric never told me about that. of course he would. of course he would. of all the things that have happened, his own adult children who brought in his operation testify against him in a manner where the public will be fully informed of everything they say, this is probably the most damaging thing in this whole process that could happen to donald trump. especially, frankly, ivanka. because she is the one -- she was, i'm sorry, on the campaign trail, and then in the white house. she had very, very high likability and approval ratings amongst republicans, amongst donald trump's supporters. they liked, her they trusted her, she was one of his best surrogates. at the same time, that's not to suggest that any of this testimony, again, will change how his most ardent supporters see him. they will find an excuse for why, somehow, his children were forced to say things, that they're going to suggest or just not true. >> what do you expect to hear from donald junior and eric trump? >> i expect them to follow in their father's footsteps, plead the fifth when they can, try and spin, try to avoid directly answering questions whenever possible. because what it really comes down to, is they've been holding the bag for him for the last several years. while he was in the white house, they were the ones technically in charge of the trump organization. they are still the ones who are handling day-to-day operations. so they are here to take the fall, basically, for their father. i can absolutely see a world where trump senior does trying to spin it as, oh yeah, junior in, eric they were making these decisions without me, even though i'm sure his signature is on all the documents that tish james has in front of her. i think that's what it's gonna come down to, considering how invasive they can be. what documents does laetitia james have in front of her that she can show, well, this clearly states this thing, versus this discrepancy over here in this file that was federal filed to deutsche bank or the federal government -- probably a great week to be tiffany tr