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way. >> and cities are -- some cities are in the exactly the same position. i agree with you. >> you're saying that there's still time for him to fix his problems? >> yeah. >> wait a minute. >> time for him is he's got to get it done by august because he's run for president. what can he do by august? >> first of all, nobody does that. okay? >> nobody fixes new jersey by august. >> case closed. >> that doesn't -- you know, and now becomes the issue. look, this is a governor who when he had been in office for two years in 2012 with all of these problems began considering runs for president. people in new jersey were saying, my god, you ran on this reform agenda reform in new jersey and he's really digging in. and already in two years you're thinking of running for president. so there's a different dynamic in new jersey than there is in this discussion. >> i like it. nobody fixes new jersey by august. that's the line.
question. now let's come to the question. >> reverend al sharpton thank you very much. we're going to be watching the events from selma all weekend long. thank you. >> republicans should send somebody down there. >> i can't believe this is even an issue. i can't believe not one is going. >> send a representative. >> it's a lost opportunity. >> there are -- i read and i think it was in the times today. a lot of rank in file republicans are saying pry vautly what i just said on the air. telling their leadership get down there. send a representative down there. >> yeah. bad week for them. still ahead. democratic congressman jim clyburn will join us. plus, what party insiders are saying in iowa and new hampshire about the hillary e-mail controversy.
system as -- >> so the issue is the 2009 guidelines, right? >> that's the biggest thing in front of us right now. two of the biggest things in front of us. first of all, the president's direct i on this. president obama said you know campaigned, most open administration and meaning this kind of thing. all the sunshine laws and regulations would be observed. then there is a 2009 regulation regulation that goes into effect when hillary clinton becomes secretary of state which says, this is the words, much trickery for hillary. the e-mail must be preserved in the appropriate agency record keeping system. that clearly did not happen. we know that didn't happen. the appropriate record keeping system did not even get these e-mails until a couple months ago. >> tell me lawrence why does this matter even democrats? why am i seeing tweets from
hillary clinton as secretive and paranoia -- and paranoid and it just more catnip for conservatives who can issue subpoenas related to it. we remember how question got to impeachment started with white it is water and a special counsel who went from one kind of investigation to another kind of investigation. benghazi opened a door. all of these things -- >> you say catnip. this isn't a conservative issue. this isn't a republican issue. >> i'm not saying it's only that. i'm saying it is the case that there are conservative republicans who are now issuing subpoenas on the basis of this controversy. >> this is not a republican or a conservative issue. >> as i said earlier, you said there are democrats concerned about this legitimate issues of transparency and all those things. but they're all true. politically speaking this thing build on itself. >> let's go around the table. steve rattner. >> a democrats are concerned.
>> suggest criminal liability here to you? all i've seen so far other than that 1950 law is regulations. when john mccain is out there saying, you know, she committed a crime, that to me is a wild overstatement. >> i don't think that part of the law has criminal penalties attached to it. affirmative responsibility for agency heads to insure that the information of the agency is properly managed and nobody -- i keep imagineing at a confirmation hearing what's your plan to make sure the agency's records are well managed because the state department has had issues around this sort of thing before. the issue never, well, i'm going to hire someone to set up a server i'm going to manage personally. >> john, is it a question to you also that nobody noticed this? there's two parts to this. there's the state department and then there's the white house. and the president who you know chose her for secretary of state. did they not notice that she was using her own erg-mail?
david corn around other democrats and liberals saying come on -- >> what's at issue -- first of all, what's really at issue in the john heilemann world of who is going to be president, what's really at issue ultimately is going to be what's in those e-mails because we live in that smoking gun culture. if there's nothing in the e-mails that bothers anyone if it all seems sensible and business like, then this will turn out to be absolutely nothing. it will be a violation of the speed limit and, you know the car didn't crash anyway so no problem. >> you think so? >> i have no idea what's in e-mails. the trouble with what's in the e-mails, i think for the campaign, and i don't know what you think. because we now are going to take a very long time to find out what's in the e-mails, this thing hangs over for a very very long time. the good thing for the hillary candidacy is it's happening right now. >> let me challenge you though quickly and then let john jump in. i don't know if it's just what's
surrender when he was shot. the overall message in the wake of brown's death is the need to reform that city's police department. reverend al sharpton will be our guest coming up at the half hour. you know that was a big issue here on the set, a real issue of contention. you were pounded for things that you said that actually reflect what the attorney general is saying. i would say to answer the question that he has to how that narrative could take off so quickly, i think it's -- there's a legitimate reason. i think people are so absolutely -- especially in the minority community, feel very focused and targeted and so they jumped on it. >> there's no doubt about it. there's no doubt about it. you don't have to make things up. that's all i was saying at the time. the situation is so bad in the criminal justice system, there are two criminal justice systems. i've said it repeatedly. i said it after trayvon. i said it after eric gardner. i say it all the time here on this set. in this one instance i was