plants and meatpacking plants. these aren t the most powerful people and where do they turn? you have a right-wing house of representatives and a very right-wing supreme court. exactly and i think this is why so many people feel powerless and ironically some are feeling so powerless that they turn to somebody who looks like a strong man. wright, with a golden toilet. who was actually at this moment giving big tax breaks and promising more tax breaks to the biggest corporations. people need to know that the most important thing to remember is the massive trump tax cut will expire next year. he is not for the regular person. robert reich, thank you so much. that is tonight s reidout . all in with chris hayes starts now. tonight on all in a hero s welcome on capitol hill for the architect of the insurrection. we are 100% unified behind his candidacy. a lot of support. the best speech i ve ever heard. we are incredibly unified in working with president trump to get him elected. tonight, how congressional republicans became accomplices to the criminal ex-president. this is an outstanding group of people. i m with them 1000%. they are with me 1000%. as trump pressures the speaker of the house to overturn his felony conviction. then, new reporting on undisclosed luxury gifts to clarence thomas. and why today s supreme court ruling on abortion pills is just the beginning of the battle, when all in starts right now. good evening from new york, i am chris hayes. a lot has happened on capitol hill since the last time donald trump was there. there was the deadly insurrection he incited. there was the biden inauguration he skipped. there was the record-setting second impeachment he faced and there was a time in the immediate aftermath of all of that, late january, february, march, it seemed he may never be welcome back. but we know how that turned out. today the former president and his 34 felony convictions tracked to capitol hill at the invitation of house and senate republicans where he was received like a different dawn. a crime don. seeking not supporters but accomplices and co-conspirators. they are using us as a bad example of democracy and they are getting away with murder and we are not going to let it happen. you are all elected or you are going to be elected again and reelected. i m with everyone of you and i will be with you always. this is an outstanding group of people. i m with them 1000%. we agree just about everything and if there isn t we work it out. the term kiss the ring has been used so often with trumpet has virtually lost all meaning, but it really was on display in washington today. everything about this appearance was meant to convey the idea of republican party unity and they all performed it strenuously. that unity essentially remaking the party of lincoln into a mafia type operation with him at the top. a man convicted in a conspiracy to pay off former paramore is because he feared their stories would complicate his campaign. a man found liable for sexual assault of exactly the kind he brags about. a man who surrounds himself with lackeys who have been convicted or charged of serious crimes. steve bannon, michael flynn. trump has pardoned or commuted the sentences of many of those men. of course they never snitched. because trump envisions interactions with people in these sort of organized crime transaction terms. you do for me and if i am in a good mood and i am happy with your performance, you will get a cut. the republican party signed up to be part of this. that was on display today with discussions behind closed doors. as sources told reporter jake sherman, trump singled out house republicans who voted to impeach him saying that out of the 10 that impeached only one is left. sherman pointed out that was wrong, there are actually two left, but this was trump basically doing his impression of al capone in the untouchables, pointing out all the people in his gang that flipped on him. a sort of snitches get stitches, stay on my good side message to the foot soldiers. if you think that pressure does not work, look at the outgoing majority leader mitch mcconnell. remember what he said about trump in the aftermath of the insurrection? there is no question, none, the president trump is practically and morally responsible for promoting the events of the day. no question about it. this was an intensifying crescendo of conspiracy theories orchestrated by an outgoing president who seemed determined to either overturn the voters decision or else torch our institutions on the way out. and yet here was mcconnell today. the old man, supplicant, submissive, bending over to kiss the ring. getting a breezy endorsement of trump s capitol hill pilgrimage. reporter: senator how was it seeing the former president? we had a good meeting. we shook hands a few times. he took questions from the audience and it was an entirely positive session. great work, mitch. despite all that plenty of those lawmakers were feckless enough to drip out details of trump s backroom talk to sherman and other reporters because you can never underestimate just how cowardly they are. for instance when trump told republicans today that milwaukee, where we are having our convention, is a horrible city. another source told reporters trump was rambling to the crowd. said it was like, and i quote, talking to her drunk uncle at the family reunion. of course in public those sources will get in line and kiss the ring and give the don whatever he wants. maybe you think this is all being too literal. hyperbolic with the metaphors. crime bosses. surely he does not embrace actual criminal gangs and racketeering and violence as a campaign feature. but this is now part of his campaign. listen closely to this because i still can t get over this. it flew almost completely beneath the radar on the mainstream media. i will include us with this, with the exception of the associated press and a few others. but it was on display at his campaign rally last month in the bronx when he shared the stage with a few supportive guests. where is where is he? come on up, fellas. always going to whisper your accomplishments and shout your failures. trump will shout to the winds for all of us. make america great again. okay so trump is doing a rally in the bronx. to trump those rappers are powerful allies. they are also criminal defendants in a sweeping gang case where prosecutors say they gave material support to a gang during a violent street war with another gang. brooklyn district attorney gonzalez says gang members used more than 30 guns to threaten or eliminate their rivals. in total gonzalez says there was one murder, for attempted murders and 12 nonfatal shootings. what we allege and learned during the course of this investigation was that he used a lot of the money that he earned to help facilitate further gang activity. he encouraged gang members to participate in violent crimes. sheff g, who is the rapper on stage with donald trump that he invited up there. prosecutors allege that he threw a party to celebrate a drive-by shooting in october, 2020, in which one alleged gang member was killed and five others were injured. murder. again, alleged. innocent until proven guilty in our system, but did you hear all of that? imagine what the new york post would have done with this headline if those gentlemen had shown up at a rally for aoc or if president joe biden introduced to them introduced them on stage. but the fact of the matter is that conservatives have a criminal as their preferred nominee and he is embracing a criminal model for the enterprise that is now the republican party. michelle goldberg is an opinion columnist for the new york times. tara, let me start with that. those two individuals on that stage. again, i can t believe it happened and these are not, you know, there are all kinds of ways people have been accused of crime. the system can be unfair, but they are accused of being part of a gang that has killed and shocked and maimed people and they are on stage with donald trump and i don t think it is an accident because i think this is kind of the vibe of the campaign. yeah, i talked about this right after the rally, i think on this network, as a matter of fact. pointing out how despicable this was and how this is seemingly okay now in the law and order republican party. it is such an affront to so many things and it is an insult to the american people that we are supposed to sit here and think this is normal. donald trump is a convicted felon. republicans are welcoming him to capitol hill with a hero s welcome. back to the scene of the crime where mitch mcconnell calls him practically responsible for an insurrection. pal around with accused murderers. this is all normal. it s just fine. it s not. it s not. he gets very frustrating sometimes when there seems to be a moral equivalence made between trump and biden and the way the campaigns are covered. like donald trump did what he did today. he is having these rallies where he is going on random rants about sharks and boats and electrocution. he is palling around on stage with guys who are also alleged criminals. meanwhile president biden is overseas representing the united states with honor and dignity of the g-7 and just entered a security deal with ukraine trying to maintain democracy in europe. there is no moral equivalence. your point about how this slipped under the radar and seems par for the course for donald trump, unfortunately this is who he is. he thinks this is okay and by the way for any black folks who think donald trump is on your side, this is what he thinks of you. black people will like me because i hang around with criminals and they were flashy chains and gold sneakers. it is such an affront, honestly, but this is who donald trump is. michelle, one of the thing that happens and again i use the mafia metaphor, because the unity is so intense. of course behind-the-scenes you have like talking to your drunk uncle. he was rambling. everyone goes and tells reporters and there is this distance. the unbelievable applause and then everyone going to tell the reporter that he was really nuts behind closed doors. right, it kind of brings back memories of 2016 to 2020, where you constantly had republicans in these really degrading displays of fealty and then they would go and try to distance themselves from it when no one was looking. maybe because they think it is all a game and we see how far it goes over and over again. i think after the mafia element, it is not just these two rappers. the trim campaign is leaning hard into mafia metaphors. you have seen the godfather t- shirts and merchandise with godfather iconography. donald trump has compared himself favorably to al capone. recently breitbart ran an interview with peter navarro, former trump official and probably future trump official if trump is reelected. currently in prison in miami. he gave this jailhouse interview boasting about how he gets treated really well because the guards and the inmates love donald trump. sort of how a made demand would be treated if he goes to prison and is still able to slice the garlic really thin. i think what is important is it is not just hypocrisy. not just a defiance of law and order. it is a different model of governance that a lot of republicans have embraced. a hierarchy based on personal relationships that they see as an alternative to technocratic liberalism. yes, mafia state as an aspirational model. and then i never know what s worse, like the people who are pretending or the people who are true believers. i think i know which category marjorie taylor greene is, but let me just play her reaction to seeing donald trump today. i really found his speech to be one of my favorite speeches. he came in, talked to the conference. he was very honest. he was funny. he was joking around constantly with everyone. he was really sweet to me. he said to speaker johnson, okay, you ve got one more seat. you need to be tougher. i was sitting back a little ways. he saw me and he was like hello. he is always so sweet and recognizes me and said are you being nice? he was joking and said are you being nice to speaker johnson? he said okay, be nice to him and i nodded my head. the thing about this is, yes, there is always a duality here. he knows what he is doing and the transactional politics are real and they have all sort of bought into it. it is successful because they are willing to get on board for what it will mean for them. yes of course and to answer your question who is worse, the true believers or the enablers, it is the enablers 100%. the true believers, you can excuse it away that they are so far into it that it is not rational for them. the enablers are the ones who know better and are in a position to say no or to say stop, when no one else will. which is what conservatives were supposed to be doing according to bill buckley, the godfather of modern conservative history. they did not do that. they made a decision that this would be a transactional, politically expedient decision to suck up to donald trump who is a direct and immediate existential threat to our democracy. he wants a club talker see and they are okay with that as long as they get their piece of the pie, but no one is safe under donald trump. he will come for them, too. then we as a country and a democracy have to pay the price. that is why he has to be stopped. go ask mike pence who narrowly avoided correct. getting grabbed by a mob calling for him to be hanged. this is j.d. vance, speaking of people auditioning, to be the next person who may be facing that situation. no real republican with any credibility in the party is still blaming trump for january 6. i think it is a good thing. the republican party is in a good place. i think today was kind of like the button on the january 6 was bad era of the republican party. to whatever extent it was there, today was the definitive marking of the end. right and it has been coming for a while. this is obviously a candidate running extensively on january 6 rioters were heroes and warriors and i m going to pardon the mall. the party has embraced him and embraced that message. j.d. vance is right. there are not very many republicans, if any, who have credibility in their party who will say what mitch mcconnell said after january 6 and what i think most of them know in their hearts to be true. michelle goldberg, tara setmayer, thank you both. when you are the republican pic for president and you want to overturn your conviction for multiple felonies, who do you call? the plea he made to the speaker of the house, next. se, next. clean white socks? it can with tide. do i need to pretreat guacamole? not with tide. this is chocolate, right? just use. tide. yeah. no matter who s doing it, on what cycle, or in what temperature, tide works. so i can focus on all the 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the congress, nor should it be. also donald trump was convicted in the state of new york, not the federal system, but that s not stopping them. the morning after the verdict johnson was on trump news making an appeal to the conservatives on the supreme court. i do feel the supreme court should step in. this is unprecedented and dangerous to our system. i think the justices on the court, i know many of them personally. i think they are deeply concerned about that as we are, so i think they will set this straight. yesterday house republican leaders spent the day whipping a bill that would allow presidents charged at the state level to move cases to the federal court. she is a contributing writer at the atlantic where she wrote about trump s absolute disdain for democracy and joins me now. when i saw this i thought that is nutty and not the way any of this works, but that has not stopped things before. i thought that about the mifepristone suit and look how far that god. so it does seem like they are on board, the house republican caucus, on trying to come up with some way of bailing him out. the house republican caucus may be on board, but i don t think that means whatever they are planning will work. if this bill went through i think there would be serious challenges probably made on realism. congress can t just miss around with state courts however it likes and of course he has already been convicted. his options at this point are really appealing through the new york state court system and then the supreme court. there are a handful of legal arguments that he could make on the grounds of federal law, but that will take a very long time and it certainly won t be done before the election. the reporting around the sort of scotus hail mary and this is the daily beast saying that most request for emergency action go to the justice assigned to a particular circuit. in this case it is sotomayor, who has ruled against trump in a most every case before her. the rulebook says the petitioner may renew the application to any other justice of his or her choice and theoretically continue until the majority has denied the application, which means he could keep on the slot machine until the right justice pops up. i m with you again that that seems implausible even by the degree of standards of this supreme court, but that might be true now. all that stands between us and the unthinkable are are those people in power at the high levels going to do the right thing or do something transparently crazy? i do think this is a case for the courts. institutional equities are important to understand. it is also worth noting, the idea that he could ping-pong from justice to justice, that is not how the court tends to do things now. what they usually do is yes the emergency application will go to justice sotomayor and then instead of going to another justice it would go to the full court as a matter of practice and i think it is safe to say they would almost certainly turn it down. this is an extremely conservative court. it is a hard right court, but it is not really a maga court. there have been issues where trump s issues align with those of the conservative justices and uc benefits for him there, but it is really hard for me to see how he could even get to for justices who would be interested in taking on this case right off the bat. he really would be stretching. i totally agree and i think one of the things you see is mitch mcconnell had this sort of speech after january 6 that was basically like this is not the way you do this. basically he was saying you ve got to do the bush league or thing if you want to take an election away, not this january 6 nonsense. do it the bush versus gore way. that is a ludicrous argument and it has done what it needed to do almost certainly in terms of delaying. to call up mike johnson and yell at him to make a magical bill that i am no longer a convicted felon is not going to do the job. right and i think this is what things look like in a federal system. the congress, the president of trump is elected again, they do not have power over what the new york state courts do. alvin bragg, whose office prosecuted this case as district attorney, he was directly elected by the people of manhattan. to some extent i think what trump is really raging against is just the idea that there might be jurisdictions simply out of his control. that is exactly what has him so worked up. quinta jurecic, thank you. coming up, in case $4 million in gifts weren t enough, what s the, it looks like terrence kalama s forgot looks like clarence thomas forgot to disclose another set of gifts. that is ahead. ahead. clean enough for you? yeah! scrape. load. done. cascade platinum plus. i have moderate to severe crohn s disease. now, there s skyrizi. things are looking up, i ve got symptom relief. control of my crohn s means everything to me. control is everything to me. feel significant symptom relief at 4 weeks with 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tiredness. with cabenuva, you re good to go. ask your doctor about switching. president joe biden is in italy today meeting with the world leaders for the 50th g7 summit. this morning the group posed for the classic family photo. this version of that picture, edited by political scientist ian brehmer, reveals something important about the leaders of the world s biggest economies. they are all unpopular. those numbers are net disapproval ratings with joe biden coming in second, underwater by only 18.5 points. there is one reason why these leaders are also unpopular. all g7 nations and most of the world have faced levels of inflation not seen for decades. none of the leaders are directly responsible for that. as you can see job creation coincided with the end of the pandemic. it was the result of a surge of pent-up demand amidst a constrained supply. but voters totally understandably hate inflation. it has been three or four years of prices going up and they blame the incumbent party. in the u.s. the consumer price index hit a whopping 9% in 2022 and we have actually recovered since then, better than our g7 counterparts. the index dropped to 3.3% as of yesterday. that is the rate of increase. prices are going up at a slower rate. cumulatively prices are still way up here and everywhere, but the truth is that joe biden didn t have a lot to do with the fact this line went up or that it went down. that is mostly circumstances outside his control. the bed. i will say this. joe biden s administration has tried very hard to cut costs for americans wherever they can, taking steps to lower prescription drug costs. canceling student debt. getting rid of junk fees for airlines and banks, for example. but for the most part being real, the rise and fall in inflation was the result of external factors like the pandemic and decisions by the federal reserve outside president biden s control. voters might look and say well then, why does it matter who the next president is? it is calming down on its own. it matters because donald trump is running on the most explicit inflationary platform in modern history. i think we should have a ring around the collar, as they say. i think when companies come in and dump products in the united states they should pay automatically, let s say a 10% tax. i do like 10% for everybody. trump s proposal, a 10% tariff on all foreign goods would basically be a sales tax. it would raise prices for american consumers 10% on everything from avocados to iphones. if you think that is bad, today, behind closed doors outside of the view of cameras, donald trump proposed one of the most arranged policies i have ever heard. he told republican lawmakers behind closed doors that he wants to eliminate the income tax and replace it entirely with tariffs, effectively taking us back to the 19th century. this idea makes as much sense as ripping up the interstate highway system and replacing it with canals. economist paul krugman did some math and estimates the policy would require an average tariff of 133%. not 10%. that is a 133% tax psych on all imported goods that would be passed on to consumers. it would cost americans hundreds of millions of dollars. a policy advisor explained further. another way to put trump s latest incredibly unworkable idea, get this, it would raise taxes by $5000 for a typical family if you are a working person who buys stuff. it would cut taxes for the average family in the top 0.1% by $1.5 million. this proposal would jack up everything everywhere for normal people, crushing the average american s wallet, while giving the wealthiest folks who no longer have to pay income tax and don t buy that much relative to their income, and enormous windfall of millions of dollars. this is the man who has a 50-50 shot of taking the white house, in large part because of the conditions that produced high inflation and he is seriously and earnestly currently running on the most inflationary platform i ve ever 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food programme empower families across the globe. surprise, there are even more undisclosed private jet trips. tonight we are learning supreme court justice clarence thomas took at least three private jet trips paid for by his benefactor billionaire republican harlan crow, according to an ongoing investigation by democrats on the senate judiciary committee. propublica is reporting the newly revealed flights add to the picture of using the jets for personal travel. he owns a high-end jet that can cost over $10,000 per flight hour to charter according to charter company estimates and thomas has repeatedly flown to a destination and back again on the same day. in a statement thomas s lawyer said the trips fell under the personal hospitality exemption and was not required to be asked closed to be disclosed. the reporter who broke the story about many of the undisclosed gifts, he and his rest of his team won a pulitzer for the reporting last year and joins me now. congratulations, by the way. three more trips. what have we learned? the thing that is so striking is the scale of it. we are looking at a picture where harlan crow s private jet, a particularly nice private jet was at the disposal of justice thomas and there are multiple incidents where, for example, flying from washington, d.c. to san jose, california, staying for a few hours and turning around and going back on the same day. that s happened repeatedly. and going from where the jet is based in dallas to d.c. to pick up the justice. it adds to a long list and the picture is a billionaire political donor in a real way subsidizing the life of a justice. they don t make clear the purpose of the trips that included trip from st. louis to montana. location of glacier park international airport. he was scheduled to be in st. louis for a speech. in one instance he flew from the east coast to san jose and returned home later that day. another he took a round-trip flight from washington, d.c. to savannah, georgia. this is how taylor swift or elon musk, that is how they get around. right, the round-trip alone, seemingly for some kind of lunch, we don t know what it was for, still, that could easily cost $100,000 for the flight. probably double the median income that an american makes in a year. it is an extraordinary amount of money. a $100,000 flight. yeah and last week justin thomas amended some prior years disclosure forms to disclose other things harlan crow has paid for. hotels and lodging and vacations. a trip to california. that is the third time he s done that. to be clear, these three no one knew about and no one reported. these were totally new to us. you had no idea? i had no idea. this is it, right? this has to be it. i think we have an absolute, definitive account. look, some of the reporting we did took myself and coworkers months of reporting to piece together these trips that justice thomas and justice alito also got. we don t have subpoena power. the senate judiciary committee does. they said today there would be a full report coming out this summer, so i would not be surprised if there are more revelations. they subpoenaed leonard leo as well, who basically told them to go pound sand. pound sand, thank you for stopping me from saying what i was going to say. harlan crow, he is cooperating. they are getting this from harlan crow. right. they authorized a subpoena. didn t actually issue attended became leverage in negotiations with lawyers and they came up with this deal where he is giving information about the past seven years. potentially not just travel. we will find out when the full investigation comes out this summer. we have to update our bar chart. it is a tough one to read. let s see, which one is thomas? right, there he is on the left. we might need to raise up that bar after we price these ones in. maybe this summer we will get more. can i get your response since i have you here about something justice alito said about your reporting. this is something that he said recently. surreptitiously recorded. take a listen. there are groups that are very well-funded by ideological groups that have spearheaded these attacks. that s what it is, you know. like who? propublica. propublica gets a lot of money and they have spent a fortune investigating clarence thomas for example. have you spent a fortune or are these ideological attacks? it was frankly disturbing to hear this because it was speculation based on no evidence. as one of the two or three reporters who did this work i tell you how it started, which was not a report on justice thomas and alito. we will report on how supreme court justices are spending their time when they are not at the court. it started with a stack of documents of travel records with no names and we pieced together that it is justice thomas taking private jets. we took a hard look at democratic appointed justices and simply found nothing equivalent. if we could put up that bar chart for a second, it is hard to find the signal for the noise in that chart. it takes a lot of energy to uncover that one on the left. right, if somebody out there knows about george soros funding trips, i would love to report it. you can find my contact information on all of our stories. thank you. coming up, as the supreme court rejects the attempt to ban the abortion pill, why the right wing is just getting started on reproductive rights. next. nuggets. impossible. we re solving the meat problem with more meat. when we say it ll be on time they expect it to be on time. turn shipping to your advantage. keep those expectations with reliable ground shipping. thanks brandon. with usps ground advantage®. my name is marie. i m 49 years old and i m a business owner. i own a lemonade and ice cream shop in florida, so i can feel and see that my lines have gotten deeper just from a year out in the sun. i m still marie and i got botox® cosmetic. i did not want a dramatic change. i wanted something subtle. and i m really, 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comfortable. always. fear no gush. they say we should stop eating so much meat. so we made meat out of plants. because we aren t quitters. impossible. we re solving the meat problem with more meat. today the supreme court unanimously rejected an attempt to limit access to the abortion pill mifepristone and that, i should say, is definitely good. mifepristone is used in more than 60% of all abortions in this country, as well as the treatment of miscarriages. it should remain easily accessible, but this case should not have made its way to the supreme court in the first place. it is shocking that it did. the case is based on faulty legal logic and was first introduced by a conservative group in amarillo, texas. incorporated there so they could file the case and ensure it would land before a hard right activist appointed to the bench by donald trump. predictably the pan plan worked. issued a nationwide injunction. the decision was mostly upheld by the court of appeals. that court of appeals is arguably the most radically right wing pro trump court in the land. the supreme court threw it out today because plaintiffs lacked standing and the entire ruse was too ridiculous even for this court. make no mistake, republicans may have lost this battle, but they are still fighting the war. it is all but certain that they will bring a similar suit again and will absolutely do so given the opportunity. they don t want to stop there. today senate republicans blocked a bill enshrining protections for ivf only a day after the southern baptist convention, the largest protestant this domination days protestant denomination in the country voted to condemn the procedure. the republican party and grassroots of the party truly believe in this. they are not going to stop there crow seed against stop there crusade against reproductive rights. joining me now is nbc legal correspondent lisa rubin. i guess let s start with the decision today which was not surprising. they kicked it on what are called standing grounds. what does that mean? standing is the notion that you have to be a person who has been injured to maintain a lawsuit. it goes back to the concept that the courts can only hear cases or controversies, not imagined grievances. what the court is saying is that the alliance for defending freedom did not have standing to bring their suit and there are a couple of lines. in one place justice kavanaugh says an organization that has not suffered a concrete injury caused by a defendant s action cannot spend its way into s standing by spending money together information and advocate against the defendant, meaning the food and drug administration s action. that is the good part of this. but as you noted, there are little easter eggs sprinkled throughout this decision that are sort of gifts to the antiabortion right. in large part because of one side can t have standing, the other can t either. one of the things this says is that doctors should not presume that they will have standing to advocate for their patients. that usually means something very different for pro-abortion doctors than it does on the anti-choice side. that s a great point. i want to read the standing argument the plaintiffs presented, because it is one of my favorites. this is from the initial, i don t think of this is the scotus brief or district court. doctors lose the opportunity to provide professional services and care for the women and child through pregnancy which causes harms to providers who can no longer care for their patients and bring about the successful delivery of a new life. you deprive me of the joy of delivering your baby, which is a tangible harm to me, ergo i have standing. the standing analysis survived the district court and survived the fifth circuit court of appeals. it is kind of galling and there is a twist on that argument, too. you deprive me of the ability to care for more deserving patients, the women who want to deliver their children as opposed to women who present in the emergency room having had a complication. hypothetically, to be clear. that hypothetically might do so. when i am forced to divert my attention from deserving woman a, to take care of you, morally bankrupt woman b. you can do this through the courts or through the department of justice if you have the teeth to do it. here is justice samuel alito talking about, he does not say the name, interestingly. he just reads the u.s. section and the solicitor general of the united states does say the name. listen. shouldn t the fda at least have considered the application i think the comstock provisions don t fall within fda s lane. the comstock laws, those are passed in the victorian era to outlaw basically all tools for abortion and birth control. and really sending them between states. if you want to talk about zombie laws and we have talked about them a lot on your show and others. these are statutes prohibiting abortion or things that allow people to achieve abortion. it was a zombie law and it was understood for many decades that the comstock law had no effect. why? because row was in existence. the biden administration has made clear they don t believe the comstock act needs to be enforced unless the intent is to help somebody accomplish something that would be unlawful and given the mail order prescription of mifepristone is lawful, then the interpretation is there is nothing to be done. a different administration however, you can count on the same sorts of folks to press that heavily with the department of justice. and i want to be clear. there are criminal penalties attached to the comstock laws. the department of justice could conceivably on day one start having the fbi arrest people and prosecute people for mailing abortion drugs. they may not even have to go that far. i think the lesson is that you can terrorize people into not doing anything just by having a law and having the threat out there that somebody could be criminally prosecuted for doing something. the comstock act, this is not a hypothetical. there are lots of folks in right-wing circles writing about and talking about this. lisa rubin, thank you. thank you. that is all in on this thursday night. alex wagner starts now. good evening. there are women already terrified making choices about bodily economy. certainly. fear at all levels of american society. thank you, my friend. today donald trump made his first visit to capitol hill. the first time since his followers ransacked the capital on january 6. to unde
hamas in gaza. i can t thank you enough for making time for us. we re all thinking about you and your family. thank you very much. and we pray for the safe return of all of the hostages as soon as possible. this is a humanitarian issue. this is not some political issue, and people trying to make this a political issue, especially, the government trying to make this political. no, this is a humanitarian crisis. and everything should be done to get them back as soon as possible. thank you very much. that is all in on this wednesday night. alex wagner tonight starts right now. good evening, alex. 250 days, just unbelievable this is where we are. thank you, my friend, as always. so i want to start with a story that in any other universe would have absolutely nothing to do with politics or anything even approximating controversy. the kind of news we all used to read or hear and accept. but in the post-trump era, this kind of news has become a sort of conservative litmus test with potentially disastrous consequences for the health and the well being of thousands and thousands of americans. i am talking about bird flu. i know. stay with me here. if you have been following the news recently, you may have seen that the u.s. is currently dealing with an outbreak of bird flu. bird flu has spread to at least 80 cattle herds across over five states. and because of that outbreak, the fda, the food and drug administration, has issued guidance for how to stay safe and avoid exposure, including warning americans against drinking raw milk. that s because raw milk has the potential to spread animal borne diseases from one species to another. this is pretty straight forward, noncontroversial scientific advice, don t drink raw milk. it s noncontroversial except if you are a conservative who follows the influential, pro-trump youth organization turning points usa. milk is good for you, but here s what the american dairy farmers association or whatever isn t going to tell you is that that pasture rised milk crap, you might as well be drinking water. it does nothing. it s not healthy. ideally, you need to be drinking raw milk. that was alex clark a turning point usa host, and one of the chief proponents of drinking raw milk. miss clark is such a raw milk enthusiast she tells her followers to drink raw milk while pregnant, something that you absolutely not do under any circumstances. and in response to the fda s warning about drinking raw milk during a bird flu outbreak, alex clark told her nearly 200,000 followers on social media, f the fda, legalize raw milk. this issue so animates conservatives that turning point usa is currently selling $35 t-shirts on their website promoting raw milk. now, if this seems like an echo of the anti-vax, anti-fauci, anti-science movement embraced by a ton of conservatives and therefore put a lot of that put a lot of this country at risk, well that is because it is. it is precisely the kind of extreme, own the libs, reality be position that is a hall mark of turning point usa under charlie kirk. charlie kirk and turning point usa have been an influential part of maga land since donald trump was elected in 2016. in recent year, kirk and his organization have become more outspoken about their beliefs, including kirk s embrace of christian nationalism. in addition to running what appears to be a raw milk propaganda outfit, charlie kirk is also a supporter of something known as the seven mountains mandate a philosophy that calls for conservative christians to take over the government. and kirk has started speaking openly about how he wants donald trump to be the champion of that cause. finally, we have a president that understands the seven mountains of cultural influence. finally we have a president that understands the significance of standing, yes, i m going to use a term, in solidarity with the grassroots activists of our country. across the republican party, christian conservatives are becoming more and more emboldened about making america a christian nation under trump, even as trump himself continues to exhibit some very unchristian behavior on a near daily basis. this was donald trump a week ago at a campaign event inside a phoenix mega church. so they come up with this order i won t say it because i don t like using the word [ bleep ] in front of these beautiful children, so i won t say it. i will not say it. but this thing allows millions of people bleep [ bleep ] donald trump swearing in a house of god and then getting the crowd to swear with him in front of children. we ve seen the same thing from trump s allies. here was rudy giuliani speaking at the pro-trump christian reawaken tour just last week. i ve got two prosecutors, fani the i m sorry. fani willis. fani. it s not fanny, and i m not calling her fani. i could drop the part if she d quit and go away. classy. all of this is part of trump s unspoken agreement with the christian far right. they let trump and his allies break the rules and be vulgar and be blasphemous with the expectation that they will refashion american life according to their christian values. may not be a bad bet either. here was trump just this week speaking to a conservative christian organization that believes all abortion is, quote, child sacrifice. you re going to make a comeback like just about no other group. i know what s happening. i know where you re coming from and where you re going. and i ll be with you side by side. you re going to make a comeback and i ll be with you side by side. even as donald trump refuses to give straight answers about where he stands on things like a national abortion ban or contraception, conservative christian groups understand what trump will do for them. it s not that much of a mystery. and part of their confidence here that an extreme christian nationalist agenda is within their grasp, part of their confidence is because these groups don t have to rely on just trump alone. they can count on trump s most powerful ally in the fight for christian dominion, the conservative majority of on the united states supreme court. just this week we heard supreme court justice samuel alito tell a progressive activist that he believes we need to return america to a place of godliness. as elizabeth and lisa write in a new analysis for the new york time, while justice alito is hardly openly championing these views, he is embracing language and symbolism that line up with a much broader movement pushing back against the declining power of christianity as a majority religion in america. the movement s rise has been evident across the country since mr. trump lost re-election in 2020. justice alito and his fellow conservative justices have already delivered for christian right with their dobbs decision, striking down roe v. wade, and soon they will have a chance to do so again. the supreme court is about to rule on two major cases of considerable significance to the christian right. one will determine whether access to the most common form of abortion in this country is significantly restricted or not and another will determine whether doctors in emergency rooms can deny pregnant women medically necessary abortions. how the court rules on these issues could tell us just how much power the christian nationalist movement has gained in this country and how close they are to victory. joining me now are lisa, the national political correspondent for the new york times , she is also the author of the fall of roe: the rise of new america, and with me is mark joseph stern, senior writer who covers the courts and law at slater mag sooeven. thank you both for joining me. lisa, let me start with the piece you have out today in the times. an array of conservative, including anti-abortion activists, church leader, and conservative state legislators has openly embraced the idea that american democracy needs to be grounded in christian values and guarded against the rise of secular culture. i don t think it s an exaggeration to suggest that strain of conservatism now seems to dominate the supreme court as well. do you think that s far off? look, part of what we document in our book, the fall of roe and the rise of a new america, is that latter part of the title, the rise of a new america. what that is about is the radicalization of conservative christians. and we ve seen some of that cooling out of these tapes from the court, but you know, i wanted to draw your viewers attention to another story today, which was that the southern baptist convention, which represents the largest protestant denomination in the country, 13 million church goer, came out and said they oppose ivf. this is a fairly radical statement for that group, and we re seeing this return to these christian conservative cultural values from the churches all the way up to alito s statements at the court. so i do think what we re watching is this shift in american power. we don t know where it s going to go, but we have a template for success for this movement, and that, of course, is the fall of roe. and how that network of conservative christian activists and lawyers were able to take down that legal precedent may be a way that they can then move on to tackle these other things they are opposed to like, as we learned today, ivf. yeah, i mean, i do when we talk about shifting the window, moving the goal post on the field, it feels like the activists on the far right are signalling to the alitos of the world, this is where we re at, see if you get here. mark, i want to talk about alito s evolution here, because he wasn t always either this explicit or radicalized when he joined the court. can you talk about his progression to where he is now? yeah, i think a crude but accurate term to describe alito is maga pilled. during donald trump s rise and presidency, alito really let his christian nationalist flag fly and xan to embrace not only the rhetoric but also the substance of this far right christian supremacy and this idea that christianity is rooted in the constitution, that we are a christian nation, and that courts have some kind of obligation to protect and, indeed, elevate christianity above not just other religions but above secular society. and he went on a little bit of a talking tour earlier this decade where he decried the new moral code of secularism that promoted reproductive freedom and lgbtq equality and said that it was an existential threat to christianity. and all of this is reflected very much in his decisions, decisions like one a few years ago where he tried to let pharmacists deny plan b to patients to whom it was prescribed. not, you know, any kind of actual abortion drug but just plan b. and decisions like hobby lobby where he s allowed corporations to restrict employee s access to birth control. and these abortion cases, most notably dobbs as lisa documented, sam alito was always going to be the man to write that opinion overruling roe v. wade. in the coming days and weeks, we re going to get these decisions on abortion, especially involving the abortion pill. and i think alito is quite likely to stick his neck out in that decision and write about how he believes medication abortion is unlawful under existing federal law, under the comstock act of 1873. this is a radicalized justice, very much maximizing his impact by staking out the positions that activists in the grassroots want him to take, legitimizing them and shifting the window and eventually, he hope, transforming them into the law of the land. yeah, i mean, it s quite obvious that the dna of the christian conservative warrior class has imprinted itself upon the supreme court, but lisa, when we talk about the relationship in politics between, for example, donald trump and his pro-maga coalition and the conservative christian warrior class, i wond every if trumpism hasn t imprinted on them. i m thinking about those two pieces of sound where donald trump is in a church, a big church, and the call and response is the word bs. it s a family program, so i m not going to say the actual word. and rudy giuliani is calling taney willis, the d.a. the fulton county, one of the most vulgar things you can call a woman, with distinct racist undertones. this seems to be a new brand of, i guess, christianity, if you want to call it that, in the age of trump. yeah, look, the church has changed politics. but politics has changed the church too. and church, especially conservative evangelical and catholic church, have grown so much more political. as we show in our book the fall of roe, they made this deal with president trump. he promised them in 2016 in iowa christianity will have power, and conservative christians jumped on the trump train, and it ended up being a bullet train for them. they got three justices on the supreme court, and the deal was set. and now they ve been with him for eight years, and it doesn t for conservative christians, they re with him. he can moderate his tone on abortion, say he wouldn t sign a 15-week federal ban, and they re still probably going to stick with him. they are fully bought in and part of this maga movement, and the two are operating together. now, you know, donald trump is in a different position, because the politics of abortion have changed so radically. he senses the toxicity there, which is why you ve seen him come out and say it should be returned to the state, that he supports exceptions for rape, incest, and life of the mother, so that dance has gotten more complicated for him politically, but there s not a sense that he s worried about losing this group that s really become a central core of his movement and his base of support. well, yeah, and i i mean, one wonder where is the guardrails are in any of it. i mean, the republican party has effectively pledged fealty to everything trump represents, christian warrior class and all, and then on the supreme court, mark, how much of a counterweight is someone like john roberts of brett kavanaugh, does the attempt at counterweighing happen on the supreme court? they are a very feeble counterweight when they choose to be one at all. all three of trump s appointees generally vote in lock step with what the republican party wants. trump has, of course, taken over the party, so it is very much his court. and i think it s really disturbing, especially, to look at some of these decisions that do involve extreme circumstances of tragic medical mishaps where wrim in dire of need of abortion, right, this is one of the big cases this term. states are saying these women cannot get abortions that they have to get sepsis, they have to begin hemorrhaging, they have to be dying before they can get abortions. well, republican politicians lined up to agree with those laws and to support those laws of the supreme court you had a ton of republican state attorneys general and republican governors lining up to say we do think woman should be forced to the brink of death before they can get emergency abortions. i think the supreme court will likely agree with them and continue to force these women into these horrible circumstances. and trump is savvy enough not to say anything at it, because he knows he s got his foot soldiers in the judiciary doing the work for him. he s got his guys on the bench who are ready to uphold the most draconian abortion bans imaginable, and he doesn t have to say anything. and just by remaining silent and not speaking out and condemning these ban, he knows he can keep the christian right very much on his side. and that is the whole genius of the strategy behind capturing the courts. you get these justices and judges on the bench for decades, they will do your bidding, they will uphold your extreme law, they will uphold your draconian policies, and most voter, unfortunately, don t draw those lines between the judges and the presidents that appointed them and the parties those presidents belong to, so they get away with this stuff. that s the story of trumpism in the judiciary. a story where there s no accountability. lisa and mark joseph stern, thank you for your time tonight. coming up, the gaslighting continues as republicans vote to hold attorney general merrick garland in contempt of congress. but first, new secret recordings have given us insight into the real thoughts of samuel alito and his wife ma that are ann. i m going to speak to the neighbor at the center of a verbal altercations with the alitos outside her home and made the story about her flags a national scandal. that s next. t her flags national scandal that s next. children are the greatest joy and our best hope for a better future. friends, they are the future. but did you know that millions of kids right here in our own backyard are facing hunger every day without healthy food? it s harder to grow, to thrive, to feel their best. the impact when children don t have enough to eat is tremendous because 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show that you re helping kids build a brighter future for themselves. thank you. families are struggling to make ends meet. these are hard times, but together we can help connect america s kids with meals. so please call now or go online to give. thank you. her uncle s unhappy. i m sensing an underlying issue. it s t-mobile. it started when we tried to get him under a new plan. but they they unexpectedly unraveled their “price lock” guarantee. which has made him, a bit. unruly. you called yourself the “un-carrier”. you sing about “price lock” on those commercials. “the price lock, the price lock.” so, if you could change the price, change the name! it s not a lock, i know a lock. so how can we undo the damage? we could all unsubscribe and switch to xfinity. their connection is unreal. and we could all un-experience this whole session. okay, that s uncalled for. after the new york times reported that two flags associated with the january 6th insurrection had flown at the homes of supreme court justice samuel alito, the justice defended himself in a letter by putting the blame squarely on his wife, martha-ann alito. i was not familiar with the appeal to heaven flag when my wife flew it. i was not aware of any connection between the historic flag and the stop the steal movement and neither was my wife. she did not fly it to associate herself with that or any other group. but audio of martha-ann alito released this week by undercover progressive activist lauren windsor paints a decidedly different picture of mrs. alito s flag collection and why she flew them. you know what i want. i want a sacred heart of jesus flag, because i have to look across the lagoon at the pride flag for the next month. exactly. and he s like, oh, please don t put up flag. i said, i won t do it, because i m deferring to you. but when you are free of this nonsense, i m putting it up, and i m going to send them a message every day. maybe every week i ll be changing the flags. they ll be all kinds. i made a flag in my head. this is how i satisfy myself. i made a flag. it s white and has yellow and orange flames around it. and in the mid sl the word vergagna. in italian it means shame. joining me now is emily, the former neighbor of supreme court justice samuel alito. emily, thank you for joining us tonight. i m eager to hear your reaction to this audio that was released. and we played that specific clip there because it really sounds like mrs. alito is intentional when she flies these flags and that there is absolutely a political point of view she is trying to communicate. what did you make of that audio? absolutely. well, fist of all, thank you so much for having me tonight. it s a pleasure to be here. and to hear her talk about the flags in that way just solidifies what we all know is that they re meant to display a particular message. she mentions the being upset by the pride flag and wanting to fly a sacred heart of jesus flag. well, that flag specifically means anti-lgbtq, anti-pride, so it s very clear what she s doing with the flag. and that just proves us all right that in his statement he s lying where he says we didn t have any reasoning behind it. we don t know what it mean, et cetera. yeah, well, she wasn t trying to be part of a movement or group. i think that that s definitely questionable given fact that she s absolutely flying these flags in response to certain groups. yes, yes. emily, i got to ask you, because she s so animated when she talks about this flag she d like to make that says vergogna, which means shame in italian, it brought back to mind your account of the alitos, according to the new york times , when mrs. alito confronted you, you said something like how dare you behave this way. you ve been harassing us over signs. you represent the highest court in the land. shame on you. the concept of shame really seems to animate her, and i wonder if you could talk more about your interaction with her when the word shame and the concept of shame was discussed. yes. well, that so that interaction, the one that happened on february 15th, the one that they re using as an excuse for why they flew the upside down american flag, which we know doesn t make sense because the flag was up weeks before that. what do i make of it? it s just it was such an intense interaction, and it was about the third time that this has happened, each time escalating more and more. and yeah, i meant it, shame on you for behaving this way. because you do represent the highest court in the land. and that was more intended towards him who was there as well and did not step in. can you talk a little bit about the relationship between the alitos, as you saw it. i mean, he was present for some of these interactions, if you want to call that, and i was there s part of the undercover interview or the undercover audio that we heard where martha-ann alito talks about her plan for gaining seeking justice for all that has befallen her and her husband. let s take a listen to that sound. it s okay because if they come back to me, i ll get them. i m going to be liberated, and i m going to get them. what do you mean by get them? there s a five-year defamation statute of limitations. i don t know who you mean. the media. so martha-ann alito has a plan here. she s mapped it out, five-year statute of limitations for defamation. the question is, is that justice alito s plan? and that begs the question, what is the relationship between these two people, to you think what she says is tacitly endorsed by him, or is that overestimating, you know, her import in terms of a family strategy? yes. you know, i don t think it s for me or anybody else to say that or to pass any judgement on their relationship. all i witnessed was her, you know, behaving in that way and him not stepping in. and what i really just want to point out is that there s no way that he didn t know those flags were flying at his house. and in those same recordings, in his own words he is unable to be impartial. he says that there are two sides and one side must win and he s basically saying that he sits on one side and he says that he can t negotiate with the other side. he can t split the difference, as he put it. and that is a giant red flag. and at this point, we ve moved past the idea of him just recusing and we ve reached the point in the general consensus that it must be removal at this point. i think we re a ways from that, but i do, i mean, i have to ask you, because this is a woman who verbally there were verbal confrontations, i believe she spat at your car at one point. yeah. there s a point in this audio where she says i m german from germany, my heritage is german, you come after me, i m going to give it back to you. in the context of these interactions with her, how did you hear that part of the audio? i think as most people who heard it it was absolutely chilling. and terrifying that people in such a high position of power are saying such threatening and scary things. now, i can t presume to know what she meant by that, but i think a lot of people are assuming kind of the same things. and none of it is good. and we really need to do something to hold this court accountable. this is mostly about his inability to be impartial, and that is his bare minimum job description, and he has said on tape that he can t do that. emily baden, at the center of a national controversy, really appreciate you taking the time to join us tonight. thank you. thank you so much. thank you. still to come this evening, a response to the story we did last night about an apparently coordinated effort to spin a negative story about president biden across a vast network of local tv stations. stick around to hear what the network has to say for itself on that. plus, former obama advisor dan pfeiffer has thoughts on how to take on republicans like house speak mike johnson when they try to rewrite reality. that s next. they try to rewrite reality. that s next. you know, these kids grow so fast, cherish every little moment you get with them. tyler, he s ten, and little dayrl, he s 12. being a single dad, it is hard. really hard. i ve been there since day one. i know how it is, you know, not to have nothing. i don t really get paid much. there s been times i ve went hungry, made sure they ate. there ain t a thing i wouldn t do for em. millions of children are facing hunger. rising food prices are making it tougher to put food on the table. call or go online right now to join feeding america with your gift of just $19 a month, only $0.63 a day. together, thanks to a nationwide network of food banks, dedicated volunteers and the monthly support of people like you. we can fill plates with nutritious food for kids facing hunger this summer. at least now i know i got to, you know, help if i need it. one in five kids face hunger in america and food costs are rising. we are getting closer to the day when no one in america faces hunger. but we can t do it without you. call or go online now. visit helpfeedingamerica.org and give $19 a month. just $0.63 a day. 98% of donations go directly to help millions of children facing hunger from coast to coast and in your own community. and when you use your credit card, you ll receive this exclusive canvas grocery bag to show you re a part of a movement working together to ensure that everyone has the food and resources we all need to thrive. if you re hungry, you know, if they got it feed you. people just got to realize, you know, places like this do exist, they will help you. please call now or make your monthly donation at helpfeedingamerica.org. working together, we can end hunger in america. we re trying to save the planet with nuggets. helpfeedingamerica.org. because we need the planet. and we also need nuggets. impossible. we re solving the meat problem with more meat. it s a weird week for republicans to claim that the justice system has been weaponized against them, given the fact that president biden s own son was convicted yesterday of three gun felony charges brought by the federal government in a case that was heard by a trump-appointed judge and decided upon by a jury of biden s peers, but that didn t stop them. this afternoon house republicans fanned the flame of a weaponized government conspiracy by voting to hold attorney general merrick garland in contempt of congress. the alleged reason for the contempt vote was the justice department s refusal to comply with a congressional subpoena to hand over audio tapes of an interview president biden did with special counsel robert hur. now, to be clear, the justice department has already released a full transcript of that interview, and officials argue that releasing the audio could endanger future investigations. but refusing to comply with a congressional subpoena, hmm, republicans managed to be outraged about that despite the fact that multiple republicans, including congressman jim jordan, who is leading the fight here against merrick garland, multiple republicans have literally defied congressional subpoenas themselves. when speaker of the house mike johnson was asked about that hypocrisy today, this was his response. you talk about apples to oranges, there couldn t be a more clear contrast between that and what we re talking about here. hmm, joining me now is dan pfeiffer, former senior advisor to president obama and cohost of pod save america. thank you for being here. i don t know, is it an apples to oranges comparison or an apples to apples comparison. it seems pretty apples to apples to me. you have members of congress, someone refusing to comply with a subpoena from congress, so yeah, it s apples to apples. the reality is that the headline merrick garland held in contempt of congress is a big, juicy headline for republicans to make hay over. and i wonder how you think democrats and people interested in preserving, i don t know, some shred of democracy, can answer that with a fairly nuanced discussion about subpoenas and why the hur audio would not make sense for future prosecutions. i don t think we have to get into the details of that. that s the conversation they want us to have. the conversation they don t want to have is why republican plans would do nothing to lower prices or higher wages. what they are planning on doing is how they can pass a tax cut for corporations and the wealthy. it will add $3 trillion to the deficit. they re trying to distract from the things that matter to people and their own popular agenda. we sdroebt to play that game as democrats. let me follow up on that, that gets to the central question of this entire campaign as it concerns joe biden, which is how much should he be talking about the sort of institutional threats posed by donald trump, institutional threats to our system of justice, to our democracy, to the voting system, and how much should he talk about, what you say, the bread and butter issue, the economy, inflation, et cetera, you seem to be landing quite clearly in camp b, don t focus on the institutional threats, is that fair? there s no such thing as a single-issue campaign for president. right. it s about a lot. now, it is very clear that most voters by pretty large margins say the economy and inflation are the single most important issue that s going to decide their vote. it s also true that three quarters of voters say that the they are unhappy with the economy and that donald trump has a big advantage on the economy. we have to narrow that gap. that doesn t mean we shouldn t talk about abortion and freedom and the threats that donald trump has. because what ties together donald trump s positions where he wants to cut social security, medicare, cut taxes for the wealthy, repeal the affordable care act, repeal abortion, is maga extremism. that s how i think we should frame it. i do wonder where you think the most movable voters are, right? because the economic stuff is plain to see. it s not a mystery, right? inflation is coming down. the joblessness rate, all of it, and it hasn t sunk in. whereas, i m not necessarily arguing for this, but the polling that we got, i think it was this week, an ap/norc poll, approval of donald trump s conviction nationwide, 15% of republicans approve of his conviction. those seem like the ghost of nikki haley s supporters. and i wonder if you think, you know, given freshness of this story and the fact that people are responding to it, whether there s to blunt about it, gold in them there hills for the democrats and the biden campaign. oh, sure. this is the anti-donald trump coalition is the biggest political coalition in america. but it s very diverse, right? you have voters who are biden voters who are upset about the economy. you have people who are biden voters who are upset about what s happening in gaza. you have trump voter who is may be upset former trump voters. so you have a lot of messages to a lot of people. what we know is there is a sufficient group of people who are deeply concerned about the idea i know this sounds crazy but deeply concerned idea that we should not have a convicted felon as president of the united states. i hope the president takes advantage of this during the debate in two weeks and brings it up. we have to make a full throated, proud, unafraid case against donald trump. that s going to talk about raising prices and cutting taxes for rich people, the threat he poses to freedoms like abortion, contraception, and the threat he poses to all of our freedoms because of the way he wants to govern what he did to try to pull the wool over voter s eyes in 2016 whshgs he got caught for and convicted for, tells a story about the kind of president donald trump would be and we shouldn t shy away from that. given the things we talk about, you know donald trump s going to bring up, well, we think he would bring up hunter biden. there s another trial in california, i believe, in september. should biden be talking about that? playbook suggests this is an opportunity to show empathy and connect with people who have faced hardship that in their own lives and families. what do you think about that? well, this is obviously deeply personal and deeply painful situation for the president, right? he had this is it s obvious every time he s ever been forced to talk about it. in all of the reporting you read, this is something that s very hard for him, of course it is. all this tragedy in his family, dealing with addiction, having to witness that. there s no question donald trump s going to bring it up in the debate. he did it in 2020 to try to rattle biden s case. i think if he can talk about this from the perspective of a father who loves his son, much like the statement that he and the first lady put out after the conviction, that hug he gave his son afterwards that he returned home to give, to show that side of joe biden, i think that is powerful. because the essential truth of joe biden is that he is a deeply empathetic person who is running for president because he cares about everyone else. and he can show that in that moment if that comes. and i think that s the way to do it and the way i think he would do it. i mean, his empathy, i think, does distinguish him from the other person who s going to be across the stage from him. dan pfeiffer, my friend, thank you for making the time tonight, buddy. thank you. coming up, some really good news this week. violent crime is way, way down across the country, but you couldn t be faulted for believing the very opposite, especially if you like watching certain local news stations. we re going to have more on that right after the break. on that right after the break. whoa! how d you get your teeth so white? you gotta use the right toothpaste! dr. c?! not all toothpastes whiten the same. crest 3d white removes 100% more stains for a noticeably whiter smile. new personal best. crest. if you have chronic kidney disease you can reduce the risk of kidney failure with farxiga. because there are places you d like to be. farxiga can cause serious side effects, including ketoacidosis that may be fatal, dehydration, urinary tract, or genital yeast infections, and low blood sugar. a rare, life-threatening bacterial infection in the skin of the perineum could occur. stop taking farxiga and call your doctor right away if you have symptoms of this infection, an allergic reaction, or ketoacidosis. far-xi-ga ed gutters. an allergic reaction, or ketoacidosis. call leaffilter today. and never clean out clogged gutters again. leaffilter s technology keeps debris out of your gutters for good. guaranteed. call 833.leaf.filter today, or visit leaffilter.com. so the president wraps his remarks on crime without a single mention of the growing immigrant crime crisis happening in this country right now. you re seeing since joe biden took office crime skyrocket. wouldn t we love to have a statistic where crime is down 67%? ours is only going in one direction. if you listen to donald trump or conservative politicians and conservative media like fox news, you probably think we are in the middle of a massive crime wave. we are not. this week we got new fbi crime statistics showing that in the fist quarter of this year, crime is yet again down across the board. overall violent crime down 15% from last year. murders down 26%. by every national metric, crime is down. regardless of the facts here, fox is still going big on crime. the organization media matters counted 304 reports about crime on fox in just the first two months of this year alone. the last time the fbi released crime data, back in march, crime data that again showed another drop in crime across the board, fox gave that data approximately two minutes of air time in the first two weeks after the data came out. fox only mentioned the declining crime rate seven times in those two week, and one of those mentions was this one. new data from the fbi claims that the u.s. crime rate is dropping. let s look at this graph while i stab you. given how much elected republicans and national conservative media are pushing the narrative of a staggering crime wave despite the facts, it sort of makes sense that republicans believe there is a rise in crime when really there isn t. but the thing is, it s not just republicans who believe that. recent polling from gallup shows that 77% of all americans believe there is more crime in the u.s. today than there was a year ago. despite, again, the opposite being true. crime went down this year and crime went down the year before. we are in the opposite of a crime wave. so what gives? why do so many americans think that crime is up? well, there are probably a lot of reasons, but there is one reason that does not get enough attention, local news. in 2019, one of seattle s local tv news stations, komo news, put out this documentary entitled seattle is dying. it depicts seattle as a city in decline because of rampant crime and homelessness. the seattle times newspaper was quick to refute the documentary s assertion that seattle was dying, pointing out that both property crime and violent crime have been dropping in seattle for decades, and komo news isn t some independent, whacky outlet, it is part of the sinclair broadcast network, a network of nearly 200 local tv stations. as the washington post put it, sinclair s recipe for tv news is crime, homelessness, and illegal drugs. journalist anne nelson told the washington post , sinclair plays up crime stories in a way that is disproportionate to their statistical presence. or as david told the post, it s a fox news wannabe. that s their model a political tool rather than a journalistic platform. but unlike what people hear from fox news or donald trump, viewers may not necessarily have their radars up when it comes to information they are getting from the local news stations that give them the weather. s stations that give them the weather sinclair broadcast group. a story about how dozens of their anchors from across the country all read the exact same script and this one was pt questioning president biden s mental fitness. sinclair has since given us their response. we are going to get to that, coming up next. . millions of children are fighting to survive due to inequality, conflict, poverty and the climate crisis. save the children® is working alongside communities to provide a better life for children. and there s a way you can help. please call or go online to give just $10 a month. only $0.33 a day. we urgently need 1000 new monthly donors in the next 30 days to help the children we support around the world. you can help provide food, medicine, care and protection, plus so much more that a child needs by calling right now and giving just $10 a month. all we need are 1000 monthly donors in the next 30 days. please call or go online now with your monthly gift of just $10. thanks to generous government grants, every dollar you give can have up to ten times the impact. and when you call with your credit card, we will send you this save the children® tote bag as a thank you for your support. your small monthly donation of just $10 could be the reason a child in crisis survives. please call or go online to hungerstopsnow.org to help save lives today. we have some new developments in a story we covered last night. the newsletters public notice and popular information first brought to attention anchors at dozens of local tv news stations who have been reading the same controversial script about president joe biden based on a widely criticized wall street journal article. have a listen. the wall street journal calling into question the mental fitness of president joe biden. as national correspondent matt galka tells us, the issue could be an election decider. the issue could be an election decider. the stations have one thing in common. they are owned by the conservative leading sinclair broadcast group and tonight we have a statement from sinclair denying wrongdoing or bias. here is a quote. the allegation sinclair is deceiving its audience are spreading misinformation is outrageous. our goal is to buy the accurate and timely coverage. any insinuation otherwise is unfounded and undermines the integrity and hard work of our teams. joining me now is the founder and author of the popular information newsletter. he is one of two reporters who broke the story. thank you for joining me. let me first get your response to sinclair s response. well, i think it was interesting that they ignored really the key issue, which is that they are amplifying and requiring dozens of local, trusted local news broadcasts, to amplify this very shoddy story by the wall street journal questioning biden s mental fitness based on really kevin mccarthy, the only on the record source. so they did not really address that. i think they are unhappy with the fact their tactics are being exposed. this is a problem they have had in the past of sending these very biased scripts to all of their affiliates and having them read them verbatim. can you talk about when you say they were forced to read these. sinclair as part of its defense says giving out scripts is common practice to affiliates and basically there is nothing to see here. from your reporting, what you understand about the pressure, if any, these local anchors are given to read this stuff verbatim? this is been well-established that sinclair, which has 186 affiliates it owns or controls, sends must runs segments that are produced out of their national office. actually after trump was elected in 2016 they hired one of his spokespeople, boris epshteyn as their national correspondent and then would have him do commentary which they required all of these stations to run. so it is true, there are affiliates that have relationships with different services. cnn operates one. there are a bunch of different ones. they will send along scripts, but that is something optional for them to do. this is the corporate parent requiring these affiliates which have all sorts of branding, abc, nbc, everybody, locks, and really pushing very hard right content in a way that is not transparent. the owner of sinclair broadcasting is a gentleman named david smith. he also purchased the baltimore sun not that long ago and i want to read for viewers who are unfamiliar with what has happened. the union representing the newspaper sternal essay monday that the articles do not meet standards. including a one-sided story about immigration policies and an op-ed by the co-owner likening the transgender movement to a cancer. in addition journalists say stories under their names have been changed without their permission and they have been reusing reporting from one of the 185 local tv stations owned by the sinclair broadcast group. this is a feedback loop, it sounds like. what do you know if the editorial practices under david smith? i think he has established himself as a right-wing operative. he has given hundreds of thousands of dollars to right- wing groups and famously he met with donald trump in 2016. jared kushner helped cut a deal where they would get access in exchange for not fact checking. david smith himself said we are here to deliver your message, so it is a very partisan operator, but he is really pulling the strings behind local affiliate neck works affiliate networks that unfortunately viewers may not know what is going on. over 185 tv stations, plus the baltimore sun. judd legum, thanks for your time. that is our show for tonight. now it is time for the last word with lawrence o donnell. . good evening, alex. sheldon whitehouse is joining us to talk about the supreme court. alex, i was fascinated to hear your interview with the alito neighbor
the oklahoma justices ruling said the lingering impact of the massacre does not fall within the scope of our state public nuisance statute and they rule the state can continue to profit from tulsa massacre related tourism without compensating survivors. today s dismissal marks an end to the quest to see justice in their life time, something i got to speak to ms. fletcher about last year. what does justice look like to you? well, everything is beautiful and rebuilt and restored. you know, we think it is just time now that we have justice on all of that to where we can live all our life. and that is the reidout . all in with chris hayes starts now. tonight on all in day people are saying to themselves, where we better off four years ago or are we better off now and it wasn t even close. the greatest confidence game ever played. voters believe they were better off during trump s term than biden s. we are not better off today than we were four years ago. tonight, from crime to the economy and beyond how a political party led by a criminal is conning america. then you, you are working for a felon. a felon. the maga scandal machine and today s contempt about for the attorney general. and the senate push to do something about the ethics crisis in the supreme court. the highest court in the land should not and could not have the lowest ethical standards. when all in starts right now. good evening from new york, i am chris hayes. as we approach the first debate of a presidential election season, earlier than normal between joe biden and donald trump, it is clear that trump and the republican pitch to voters is fundamentally a con job. i mean that in the most literal sense. the term comes from so-called confidence man, fixtures in the late 18th and 19th century who swindled the victims with their confidence. right now that all s bravado is the defining feature of donald trump s attempt to win back the oval office. remember, this is the man who tried to destroy our constitutional republic live on national television and who utterly failed in overseeing the one national crisis he had to guide the nation through the pandemic. and yet trump and his surrogates are constantly telling voters to ask themselves a question, are you better off than you were four years ago? are you better off than you were four years ago? i don t think joe biden can run on the question of are you better off than you were four years ago. that is one question he is praying that he never hears. are you better under four years of joe biden were four years of donald trump. you know, people are saying to themselves are we better off four years ago or are we better off now and it wasn t even close. that, by the way, was all from the past week. we have been running a series on all in responding to that question because the events of four years ago were so shocking, unprecedented, and traumatic. i think a lot of people, i would say most people including myself, have blocked it out. again, i get it. i don t want to think about sitting inside trying to homeschool my kids or attending zuma for my dearly departed uncle or the images of packed hospitals and dying saying goodbye to their loved ones on ipads. of course the fact that most people don t want to think too much about 2020 is an enormous advantage for republicans and the trump campaign who are attempting to pull off this con job. their aim is to kind of magically replace her memory. to distract you from the fact that four years ago we were all living in the midst of disaster. tonight the country has reached another sobering milestone in the coronavirus pandemic, surpassing 2 million cases and this warning sign. hospitalizations are surging in many states. we will start our rallies back up now. we had a tremendous run at rallies. i don t think there has been an empty seat. i think one in texas. we are going to arizona. texas and arizona among nine states reporting a jump in hospitalizations, the best indicator of the viruses toll. we are really doing a financial comeback. the jobs numbers are fantastic. 1.5 million people filed front employment last week, almost 43 million since the pandemic began. i think the economy next year will be maybe the best it has ever been. we are already seeing the stock market going up, because you have a lot of smart people betting on exactly what i m saying. a selloff from wall street amid new concerns about the continuing spread of covid-19. the dow plunging more than 1800 points, its biggest drop in three months. a very important time in our country. a lot of things are happening and i think when it all ends up it is going to end up very good for everybody. there is growing concern tonight that restricting restrictions is causing an increase in covid-19 cases. all lives are precious, not just the people infected by covid, but also the people who are being driven to this because of the lockdown. what is happening in some of those places. that shut down. the poverty rate is going up. what are people going to do if they don t have jobs to go to to earn a living in order to take care of their families? that is the main reason. all of these scare tactics, they don t work this time around. they will not work. i should note one week after herman cain made that appearance on fox news, he attended donald trump s indoor rally. a big, indoor rally in the midst of covid in tulsa, oklahoma and by the end of june he was hospitalized with covid and died on july 30 at the age of 74. naturally every time we do one of these segments i find that looking back at four years ago brings a lot of emotion. most people divide recent history into the before times and the after times, myself included. a lot of us feel nostalgia for the before times and that is exactly what donald trump and his allies are using to build their lie about what really happened. to erase our real memories and implant false ones. that is their project and it has been unnervingly effective so far. four years ago in june, 2020 while we were living through the pandemic donald trump s approval rating was 42%. and when a new poll, 47% of americans say they approve of the job that trump did as president. it is not much, but those five points are basically the margin of the entire election and they are accomplishing that through flat out lies about what is actually happening. take a listen to missouri senator josh hawley doing this today. he s going to run on his record from four years ago versus biden right now. gas under president biden, up 55%. groceries, up 40%. wages down 3%. that is the campaign. that is before we get to crime, before we get to the border. sorry, josh hawley. wages are up. average hourly earnings are actually up 17% from may, 2020 two 2024 in nominal terms, like groceries and stuff. wages have also outpaced inflation for the past 13 months as the washington post pointed out today. crime is way down. look at what has happened with the homicide rate. in 2020 when donald trump was president, he ushered in under his presidency the largest ever one year jump, spiking 30%. by 2023 the homicide rate had tumbled 19% to 5.3 per 100,000 people. new data shows the rate continues to drop dramatically, down another 20 another 26% in the first quarter from the same time period last year. gas prices, are, i will admit, overall higher than they were in the summer of 2020. why were they low then? no one was traveling anywhere. okay? that is why there were cheap gas prices. refrigerator trucks full of cadavers, yeah, the gas prices were low. and they spiked up in the early part of the biden administration with the war in ukraine, but they have been trending in the right direction and continue to fall even as the summer travel season heats up. grocery prices are coming down. not just with inflation which cooled to 3.3% today, but retailers are actually slashing prices on thousands of islands. of items. again, they spiked during the pandemic like they did everywhere in the world, but they are on the right trajectory now and all of this is happening under the incumbent, joe biden. and we are not losing thousands of americans per day to a deadly pandemic. we do not live in a nation in the throes of constant disorder. this time four years ago we were living through the televised murder of george lloyd and the protestant police response that followed while then president trump called for sending in troops. across the country was started as peaceful gatherings protesting the death of george floyd evolved into destruction. from new york, where police and protesters squared off in the streets, to portland where the mayor issued a state of emergency and a city curfew. the nation erupted into scenes of chaos. violence. and widespread destruction into the early morning hours. in some of the nation s biggest cities, the night spiraled out of control early. we had to run rubber bullets. my cameraman has been hit. we have also seen tear gas being used. here we go again. this is exactly what it looks like. oh. whoa. can you hear us? are you okay? reporter: we are surrounded by the police and you saw the way that they dealt with my cameraman. we don t know who they are targeting at the moment. i said you have to dominate the streets. you can t let that happen and we are doing it with compassion, if you think about it. we are dominating the street with compassion. all that happens under the watch of president donald trump. we cannot say or hear that and if he returns to power i am telling you it is a safe bet that we will return to trauma and chaos. she is a democratic strategist who served as an advisor for the 2020 campaign. they both join me now. doug, i wanted to talk to you because in some ways history and recent history is part of what is being contested in this campaign. the legacy of the first trump year, trump term, and particularly 2020, the four years ago in the famous formulation, as a historian and historian and presidential elections, how do you see it? i think january 6 is such a seminal event and for the days after it seemed like trump was toast. everybody was furious that insurrectionists, but lo and behold suddenly mitch mcconnell came back to trump and lindsey graham and they sort of built this coalition and what is it? it is really anti-federal government. that is what trump represents now. that is why we are seeing the american flag hung upside down by conservative justices. and biden is trying to be part of a tradition, presidents club, of all of the other presidents. you saw on june 6, where ronald reagan is. by then saying i represent all of this and trump is sort of the anti-federal government, anger over covid. and that people still feel that their lives became topsy-turvy and they are going to punish whoever the incumbent is. so it is hard for biden to get traction even though as you said, numbers on the economy are good. we are much better off. he has shown great leadership, but communicating that to the people when there is this much frenzy on social media and hatred toward the federal government, it is an uphill battle for biden to get reelected. i was thinking about 2010, the elections in which of course democrats lost. the tea party uprising. a lot of that was something similar was happening. which is people were frustrated with the aftermath of the financial crisis ushered in by the republican party. democrats were the incumbent party and they took it out against the democrats and it was sort of classic like we don t like the status quo because things are bad and they were bad, but the reason they were bad is because what had been passed on. there is something similar here where the things people don t like him a totally understandably, the shocks that came out of covid were not the doing of joe biden. subsequent administrations had to fix that and people still feel frustrated with the pace that is happening. it s interesting that you bring up what happened in 2010 because i think of the history of the democratic party. to clean up the miss of the republican party and as democrats clean up the miss they have to message against republicans who are acting as if they want the party that let estate into it. four years ago donald trump was telling people to drink leach to cure covid while he was having superspreader events. four years ago people were in their homes watching what you just did in a montage, but we were watching that every day for 24 hours, not knowing when we would see our loved ones and then trying to figure out who we were going to vote for when it comes to the president to get us out of this. you know, policy for people to feel it in their pocket books takes a very long time and while you mentioned some great reports for the biden administration, even the global economic report this week that said the global economy is strong because the u.s. economy is getting strong, but people are not feeling that yet. that is not the fault of president biden. that is the unregulated corporations that republicans are blocking anything democrats want to do around this. this debate coming up, president biden will have to figure out how to message that as well as the surrogates and people talking about this between now and election day so people understand how they are not feeling this, even though these historic numbers are bringing us back to a place that the american people really want to be. you know, doug, i think that before times nostalgia is powerful and i think there is another thing in play here and i would like to get your thoughts on it. my view of trump was always that this is a person who is so unsuited to the job above all else that if and when a crisis comes it will be the worst possible response and then covid happened and it was borne out. i think a lot of people think 2020 is a mulligan. it was a meteor that hit earth and they sort of blocked out the degree of insanity in the crisis management that happened that year and i wonder if you think it is possible to remind them or people are so resistant to thinking about it. i think you can and it is going to be imperative that joe biden reminds people, particularly during the upcoming debate with trump. trump has gone through so many legal jeopardy moments and years have gone by and we are running it on television all the time and you have the 34 felony conventions convictions. even when that happens some democrats were saying don t rub it in trump s base. of course you have to rub it in his face. you have to call him a felon. biden has struggled i think with messaging in the sense of this economy that has been building. he called it a transitory pain we were having at one point and then it was bidenomics. instead they have to lay out that our economy is doing well. yes, i feel your pain at milk, groceries, gas, but he has to be the happy warrior like fdr. at times he does that. i felt that when he was in france, talking about freedom and democracy, but other times he gets in a bit of a defensive crouch. you can t be gerald ford with whip inflation now buttons. you can t be jimmy carter, the malaise or crisis of confidence. presidents get reelected with a sense of victory and optimism and better times are yet to come and obama when he ran, he had the killing of osama bin laden which gave him the foreign policy credential that people clearly understood. the revenge of the 9/11 disaster. the sort of past versus future obviously you have two individuals, one is who is 78 and the other is 81. in some ways donald trump is the recent past and i do wonder if because the past four years have been so dramatic and disruptive, people want to go back in time and that is part of the allure. i think people want to go back in time when there was what they felt was more certainty. with covid there was such uncertainty. the racial unrest and then we saw january 6. hindsight is 2020 and for some reason some people as though they people feel as though they were better under donald trump. that wasn t the case. i think we have to make sure that president biden, and i hope his campaign is listening, that he simplifies his message. he has always been the comforter right next to president obama. be that president and then talk about the ways not only has it gotten folks out of this, but he will continue to do so if they give him four more years. along with a congress and senate to keep doing this work. alencia johnson and doug brinkley, thank you both. coming up, the hunter biden narrative backfires on republicans and now they are going after the attorney general instead. that is next. next. impossible. we re solving the meat problem with more meat. for moderate to severe crohn s disease skyrizi is the first il-23 inhibitor that can deliver remission and visibly improve damage of the intestinal lining. serious allergic reactions and an increased risk of infections or a lower ability to fight them may occur. 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have the transcript. today they voted to hold the attorney general in contempt. congressman joe neguse of colorado is assistant democratic leader and member of the judiciary committee and joins me now. congressman, what was this all about? good evening and good to be with you, chris. unfortunately it is a sad state of affairs in washington, d.c. as extreme house republicans have once again found a way to weaponize what are very constitutional and serious tools that the congress has at its disposal. in this case, as you articulated, they pursued a baseless contempt resolution against the attorney general. by way of background as many of your viewers already know, the attorney general fully complied with the requests made by the congress. the department of justice produced over 90,000 pages of documents with respect to this inquiry. more by the way, chris, then the entire department of justice provided during the course of the trump administration and also produced the transcript itself of the president s conversation with the special counsel. the contextual reasons house republicans offered for purposes of the audio were clearly a smokescreen for what was a political exercise. they wanted audiotapes to use them for a campaign commercial and the attorney general cited a number of reasons why ultimately that tape could not be provided. the president invoked executive privilege and republicans in the house of course know that to be the case, but they proceeded anyway. unfortunately i think it is shameful and disgraceful and we will have to see what comes next in the clown show that they have perpetrated on the american people right now. you know, two things i want to note. the republican who voted against it said as a former prosecutor i cannot in good conscience support a position to score political points. the american people expect congress to work for them and solve policy problems. enough is enough. second of all i want to make sure that i have the events right. merrick garland appoints a special counsel to investigate the president. the man that he appoints is a republican who is a donald trump appointee in the justice department. this individual asks for an interview which the president voluntarily complies with i think for nine hours despite the fact that donald trump never gave an interview to robert mueller. he then uses parts of that interview to take political shots at him in the opening introduction. they release the transcript and all of this is deemed, what? partisan by the republicans? how far can you possibly go? the answer is nowhere. there is nothing you can do. that is the question and it is an open question. you articulated the timeline well. i would offer two amendments. one, this attorney general produced as you know the special counsel report in full, unredacted. very different compared to attorney general bill burr. i remember as we dealt with subterfuge with respect to the special counsel investigation and in this case the special counsel testified in front of my committee, as did the attorney general as recently as last week. this is a farce. house republicans know that. it is a way for them to up skate their lack of days for them to obfuscate their lack of an agenda. they prefer to spend time on these political games, which is unfortunate. it is not a coincidence the timing between hunter biden s conviction yesterday and this. this is the new york times reporting. mister trump who aggressively attacked hunter biden in the 2020 election has changed his mind about doing so now. trump said republicans needed to be careful not to go overboard because it could elicit sympathy and make people view the president as a caring father. so they spend years chasing this guy to the ends of the earth. they successfully, let s be clear, they basically successfully control this investigation. the prosecution happens and now it is like we ve got to light a new fire because that one has burned out. look, in their view the circus must continue. their message is not resonating with the american people, so as a result they will continue pursuing political retribution at every turn and of course this is not the first time. they pursued seven or eight different impeachment resolutions at various points in the last 18 months against a variety of cabinet officials. they impeached secretary mayorkas. that was dispensed in the senate without a trial. the attempted impeachment of president biden failed. so i have no doubt that unfortunately these games are going to continue for some time. hope springs eternal that perhaps some in the republican caucus will do what representative joyce did today and ultimately speak truth to power and do the right thing and join us in getting back to the business of the house. congressman joe neguse, thank you for your time. up next, what happened in the senate when the democrats tried to introduce ethics to the supreme court. next. . my mental health was better. but 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same rules that guide members of congress and federal employees. in the senate today democrats ask for unanimous consent to pass a binding ethics package for the court. it was blocked by the top republican on the senate judiciary committee, senator lindsey graham. joining me now is senator jeff merkley, one of several democrats who took to the senate floor arguing why the ethics package should pass. senator, it is good to have you on. first, tell me what the act fix what the ethics package, what would it do? it is so straightforward, chris. it says they would have to have a binding code of ethics at least as strong as the house or senate has. what applies to the executive branch, what applies to other judges, what applies to members of the house and senate applies to the supremes as well. that is like what congressman raskin and ocasio- cortez were talking about. you could not do it as a senator. you could not do it as a mid- level engineer at the department of the interior and you could not do it as any other federal judge. chris, it is just phenomenal. think about what this looks like. it is mega yacht trips. indonesia. tuition for family members. luxury rvs. helicopter flights. you name it. $6 million of gifts over the last 20 years. here is the scenario. for an average person hauled into court and somebody sues you and you find out the person suing you has been going on fishing trips to alaska with the judge. would you think you are getting a fair shake? that there is any possibility of justice in that situation? the answer is absolutely not. that is a profoundly corrupt court and that is what we have today. i think, well, i don t know what the logic is but i think republicans say this is all partisan. the reason you are doing this is because you don t like the rulings in the court, you don t like the ideology, so you are trying to attack legitimacy to a road power for purely ideological and partisan reasons. certainly if republicans want this court to have the force that comes with integrity and respect of the american people, then they should be the first to step forward to clean up this miss. it is in fact a miss and certainly i believe that these justices on the right who were trained and selected by the federalist society to deliver power on a plate to corporations in america, are deeply, profoundly warping the constitution. in favor of corporations and against consumers and environmental laws and many other things. this issue of accepting massive gifts from people who have issues before the court, that stands on its own. separate from any dispute one might have. i want to redo something that sam alito said last summer in an interview with the wall street journal to a lawyer and a writer there. he said i know this is a controversial view, but i m willing to say it, he says. no provision in the constitution gives congress the authority to regulate the supreme court, period. what do you think of that? it is called legislation and the constitution does give legislation power to the congress. it gives the ability to put a code of ethics on the executive branch. yes a president can veto it, but we can override that veto. certainly there was a sense of while the constitution said little about what the court system would look like, there were massive decisions made by congress to decide how the judiciary would be structured and run. so absolutely that does not pass any sort of common sense or legal examination. final question and quickly. on the question of having the chief justice come before the senate. he has basically blown off an inquiry from the chair of the judiciary committee who reached out to him. samuel alito has written to say i am not recusing myself. basically they are like, you are not the boss of us and we don t have to listen to anything you say. is that a tolerable equilibrium? it is not, because they are basically saying we have the right to be corrupt and you can t do anything about it and that deeply undermines a key institution in our country in which we need to have a sense of respect. a sense that it delivers the balls and strikes, as justice roberts once said in his confirmation hearings. right now we are getting profound conflict of interest and that is really sad to hear. chris, here is the thing. justice roberts, in running this court, he has to recognize that he is failing in his responsibility to run this court in a fashion which delivers fairness and a sense of integrity to the american people. one jeff merkley, inc. s very much. we will be right back. if advanced lung cancer has you searching for possibilities, discover a different first treatment. immunotherapies work with your immune system to attack cancer. but opdivo plus yervoy is the first combination of 2 immunotherapies for adults newly diagnosed with non-small cell lung cancer that has spread, tests positive for pd-l1, and does not have an abnormal egfr or alk gene. opdivo plus yervoy is not chemotherapy, 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yervoy. a chance to live longer. right now across the u.s., people are trying to ban books from public schools and public libraries. yes, libraries. we all have a first amendment right to read and learn different viewpoints. that s why every book belongs on the shelf. yet book banning in the u.s. is worse than i ve ever seen. it s people in power who want to control everything. well, i say no to censorship. and i say yes to freedom of speech and expression. if you do too, please join us in supporting the american civil liberties union today. for over 100 years, the aclu has fought for your rights and mine. including the right to read all manner of books. so please call or go online to myaclu.org. for just $19 a month, only $0.63 a day. you can become a guardian of liberty and help protect all the rights promised to us by the u.s. constitution. make no mistake, this move to ban books is a coordinated attack on students right to learn. this is a clear violation of free speech. that s why 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trump s closing message railing against pharmaceutical companies and the like and bernie sanders message from the beginning. it has been almost a decade since my brief flirtation with internet immortality. there was even a videogame created out of that. in my defense it had been a very long day covering the new hampshire primary and we were doing my show where we did so many msnbc shows that you re at jds tavern. in that very moment as i was speaking, in my line of sight, howard feynman sitting in a booth about to take a bite from a huge pastrami sandwich. the legendary political journalist was with us at all of those political moments on every primary, convention, everything in between going back more than 20 years. he was a near constant presence on msnbc, sharing reporting and insight from his career spanning four decades and seven presidents. you confess your weak spot up front, but then you turn it into a virtue and make what you hope is a dramatic and winning contest with your opponent. in this case as you say you cannot out flamboyant donald trump. you cannot be more, in many ways, irresponsible than donald trump. howard fineman was more connected in politics than just about any journalist has been. it was a force of nature who knew everybody in washington. i was so saddened to learn that howard died today at the age of 75 after a long battle with cancer. i knew him well. i knew him to be exceedingly clever and exceedingly kind. and howard had this bravado that they don t make anymore. our thoughts are with the family tonight including his son nick, who is a senior producer here at msnbc. we are all really going to miss him. i saw how easily it picked up my hair every time i dried it. it only takes a minute. look at that! the heavy duty cloths are extra thick for amazing trap and lock. even for his hair. wow! and for dust i love my heavy duty duster. the fluffy fibers trap dust on contact up high and all around without having to lift a thing. i m so hooked! 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first and foremost, a ceasefire. first and foremost, a ceasefire. this is elementary. this is like when there was a ceasefire, hostages came back. now, they happen here and there, they are not a strategic solution to the problem of 120 people still kept in captivity. you know, during seven months of military operation israel succeeded in releasing seven hostages alive. this is, you know, a pace of one hostage a month. eight months, even. so 120 hostages would take ten years time. the hostages have no time. the sanitary conditions are nonexistent. the health is deteriorating by the day. physical and mental. and we must find a way to bring them back home as soon as possible. these are not, you know, these are not only young people, these are elderly people, grandfathers and parents and uncles and people that were taken from their beds at 7:00 a.m. on a saturday, you know, in their pajamas and barefoot sometimes, yeah. in the u.s., one of the things that people there has been kind of a joining of the notion of the war and the justness of it and doing it on behalf of the hostages. many people feel that the war is on behalf of the hostages, and people think that those, you know, who are calling for ceasefire are betraying them or forgetting about them. and you wrote this open letter that basically argued the opposite. and so for people that are people of good faith across the spectrum on this very contested issue, i want to hear your argument to them as a family member. sure, sure. first, again, a ceasefire. why? the thing that endangers the hostages the most right now, idf bombing. this has been from october 8th ongoing where my 9-year-old cousin s son was asked during an interview after he has spent 49 days in gaza captivity, he was asked what do you feel most about your grandfather still being there? without hesitation he answered the idf bombing. the idf bombing endangers the hostages, and the idf bombing, actually, we know about 14 hostages that were killed either by direct hit by the idf or, you know, as after an idf attack, the attackers needed to evacuate the space. they killed them, so you know, the military operation endangers the hostages. it got seven hostages out, 14, at least, dead, and this the whole military maneuver is not getting it s not for the hostages at all. it s not helping them. on the contrary, it gets them further and further away from the hostage deal, further and further away from getting united with their loved ones. because we know that the conditions for the hostage exchange or the prisoners exchange or whatever you want to call this, getting them back home is first, ceasefire. and by waging this war from day one, the israel government initiatives of this military operation is only keeping us apart, keeping us further and further apart. at the beginning it was only northern gaza, then it was rafah, and before that it was elsewhere, and we re just getting further and further apart from a solution to this problem, because the solution should start with a ceasefire. this is, you know, logical and basic. a spokesperson for the group of hostage, his uncle held by hamas in gaza. i can t thank you enough for making time for us. we re all thinking about you and your family. thank you very much. and we pray for the safe return of all of the hostages as soon as possible. this is a humanitarian issue. this is not some political issue, and people trying to make this a political issue, especially, the government trying to make this political. no, this is a humanitarian crisis. and everything should be done to get them back as soon as possible. thank you very much. that is all in on this wednesday night. alex wagner tonight starts right now. good evening, alex. 250 days, just unbelievable this is where we are. thank you, my friend, as always. so i want to start with a story that in any other universe would have absolutely nothing to do with politics or anything even approximating controversy. the kind of news we all used to read or hear and accept. but in the post-trump era, this
seats of government, the seats of power, and embarks on a campaign, a political intimidation, in order to secure outcomes that personally benefit him. and that at the core is part of the sticks of our democracy that are before us today. because once rule of law goes out the window, it is not something that is easy to get back and it is very much a part of the decision that we have to make before us in the next few months. congresswoman alexandria ocasio-cortez, congressman jamie raskin, thank you for your time tonight. i really appreciate it. that is all in on this tuesday night. alex wagner tonight starts now. we have new exclusive audio from the supreme court historical society that lauren winsor has given us and we will be playing that in the hour, so stay tuned. i will pick like i said, exclusive never before heard audio recordings of justice samuel alito speaking to an undercover progressive activist. that is what we have tonight. that is in addition to the bombshell recordings that were released yesterday and we will definitely want to hear these recordings when we play them. if you have been wondering how those secret tapes were made in the very first place, how activists and judges on the highest court in this land, how they came to mingle behind closed doors? the answer to that begins almost 10 years ago to this day when the supreme court handed down a major decision. reporter: supporters of the hobby lobby cheered today s victory. the oklahoma family that owns the chain of 500 craft stores claims that providing insurance coverage for some forms of contraceptives under obamacare would be the equivalent of paying for abortion. the court called the rolling startling and said it will allow companies to opt out of any law they judge incompatible with their sincerely held religious beliefs. the hobby lobby decision. the majority opinion was written by justice samuel alito and it was one of the first signs that conservatives on this court were willing to go after reproductive freedoms no matter the consequence. in the wake of the dobbs decision 10 years later, hobby lobby seemed sort of like the canary in the coal mine in more ways than one. in november 2022, the new york times offered key reporting about how the hobby lobby decision came to be. for years before the court heard the case, conservative christians have been engaged in a campaign called operation higher court. that operation was to personally court and influence the supreme court s conservative justices. that effort was spearheaded by a man named reverend robert shank who would recruit christian couples who he called stuff missionaries to gain access to the judges and to impress upon them the importance of conservative christian values. here is how the new york times described one of their strategies. reverend gave his stuff missionaries close instruction, the justices were more likely to let their guard down at the supreme court historical society annual dinners because they assumed attendees had been properly vetted. ca justice, boldly approach, schenck told the couples according to a briefing document reviewed by the times. if given the opportunity, bear witness to biblical truth, but don t push it, he said. your presence alone at the historical society events telegraphs a very important signal to the justices. christians are concerned about the court and the issues that come before it. that strategy appears to have paid off. according to the times reporting, some of schenck s stuff missionaries were able to build enough of a relationship with justice alito and his wife, martha and, that they obtained advanced notice of the court s hobby lobby decision before it came out. that breach of that unprecedented breach foreshadowed the leaked dobbs decision striking down go versus wade two years later. that specific strategy of using the supreme court s annual historical society dinners as a way to gain access to supreme court justices, it turns out that too is relevant again, just this week. they historical society dinner is a yearly event where wealthy donors give money to a nonprofit dedicated to preserving the court s history. in exchange for their money, those donors get to rub shoulders with some of the justices and their spouses. as it turns out, conservatives weren t the only ones in on this arrangement. last week, progressive activist lauren winsor who happens to be a member of the historical society, bought a ticket for the event. she got in, she pretended to be a conservative donor attending the event with her husband. ms. lender then approach some of the conservative justices and secretly recorded her conversations with them. and busyness has not heard the full tape of what is recorded so we cannot say for certain where edits were made if any were actually made. tonight we have some brand-new, never before heard audio from that event to play for you and when you hear these new tapes, he will hear something familiar to what was on the tapes released yesterday. a justice in this case, justice alito, who is aggrieved and frustrated, who is nakedly partisan and totally unconcerned by appearing to be all of those things in front of a total stranger. remember what we heard yesterday. as someone who really cherishes my face, i just don t know that we can negotiate the way that needs to happen for the polarization to end. i think it is a matter of, like, winning. i think you are probably right. on one side or the other, one side or the other is going to win. i don t know. i mean, there can be a way of working, a way of living together peacefully. but it is difficult, you know, because there are differences on fundamental things that really can t be compromised. they really can t be compromised. so it is not like you are going to split the difference. and that is what i m saying. i think that the solution really is, like, winning the moral argument. like, people in this country who believe in god have got to keep fighting for that, to return our country to a place of godliness. i agree with you. i agree with you. member, at this closed-door cocktail party, winsor was also able to get justice alito s wife, martha and, to explain her deeply personal motivation for flaying two insurrectionist flags in front of their homes. that is a story that has just scandalized this court and is reporting this week would seem to suggest that mrs. alito has no shame about what she has been doing , in fact, quite the opposite. after deriding who have been critical of the scandal, she made clear that these flags she flies are explicitly her form of resistance and response. i know what i want, i want a sacred heart of jesus flag because i had to look across the lagoon at the pride flag for the next month. and he is like, please don t put up a flag. i said i want to do it because i am deferring to you but when you are free of this nonsense, i am putting it up and i am going to send you a message every day, maybe every week i will be changing the flags, i made a flag in my head, this is how i satisfy myself, i made a flag, it is white and yellow and orange flames around it. in the middle is this word. in italian, it means shame. just to be clear here, justice alito has publicly stated his wife did not fly these flags to associate herself with the stop the steal movement or any other group. but it seems quite clear from the clip that his wife very much sees these flags as a form of political expression and a response to what she believes are liberal attacks. perhaps most concerning in these recordings, though, is martha-ann alito s five-year plan for revenge . it is okay because if they come back to me, i will get them. i m going to be liberated, and i m going to get them. there is a five-year defamation statute of limitations. i don t know what you mean by they. the media. okay, so martha-ann alito, the wife of a supreme court justice, that she has a plan to get back at the media by suing for defamation. and she thinks she will have the opportunity to do that in the next five years, when she is free of all this nonsense. is samuel alito s wife telling us something here about justice alito s retirement plans? and how concerned should we all be that a supreme court justices spouse is talking about the american media with open contempt? tonight we have grand brand- new audio from that same event where justice alito himself tells us what he thinks about the press. the other voice you will hear on this tape is an associate of lauren winsor s who was also at this event. i just wanted to ask you, why do you think the supreme court is so is being so attacked and being so targeted by the media these days? well, i think it is a simple reason. they don t like our decisions and they don t like how they anticipate we may decide some cases that are coming up. that s the beginning and the end of it. and there are there are groups that are very well-funded by ideological groups that have spearheaded these attacks. that s what it is. like who? propublica. propublica gets a lot of, you know, gets a lot of money, and they have spent a fortune investigating clarence thomas, for example. everything he s ever done in his entire life, and they ve done some of that to me too. but, you know, they look for any little thing they can find, and they try to make something out of it. and be seen is reached out for comment from both samuel alito and his wife, martha-ann alito, but we have not heard back. joining me now is lauren winsor, progressive activist and the executive producer of the undercurrent. thank you for being here, i know you have had a busy week so far. we are so appreciative of all that you have set this far and all you have to share with us tonight. first, start with a new sound that your organization or your colleague has given us. there are two parts of this new tape that strikes me as concerning. the first is justice samuel alito saying that the media is attacking him because the media doesn t like how they anticipate the court has decided cases and may decide upcoming cases. was that a window into what may be coming down the pipe in the next two weeks? how did you interpret that? i mean, i definitely interpreted it as being a harbinger for bad things to come. did you get the sense when he was talking about the media and specifically citing propublica, for example, and their expensive investigators reporting about clarence thomas, that these stories are very much being shared behind closed doors at the supreme court? his media awareness seemed to be relatively high. it is very high, and he already had a sense of grievance when i first spoke with him in 2023, but it was much more pronounced this year i think in the two conversations that both allie and i had with him. can we talk about the context here? the fact is, you and your colleague both had conversations with the alitos. for those who have not been to historical society of us, is this what happens at them? we know two bombshell series of reports about conversation, advocacy campaigns that are happening between attendees and the justices on the supreme court. it is interesting, i had actually read that initial report in the new york times about reverend schenck and that is part of what played into my going in the first place but i did not read that report and think i should become a member now. it really was incited by the propublica reporting on clarence thomas and it is interesting that justice alito wants to rail about the money taken by propublica for investigating public servants while clarence thomas is not disclosing millions of dollars of gifts from gop donors and i have no idea what propublica s finances are but as someone who is an independent journalist, i would imagine that the money that clarence thomas is taking probably read the budget of propublica in any given year. is such a good point, what did you hear in justice alito s explanation for that? did you hear it almost seems as if there is certainly no contrition, but there is not even an acknowledgment that there was any wrongdoing on the part of clarence thomas in accepting potentially millions of dollars in unspecified gifts from conservative donors? it is not verbatim, but it is almost for meeting verbatim, making something out of any little thing. i don t consider any little thing to be buying my mother s house or paying for my nephew s tuition or getting a free rv loan. and these are all things he has accepted from gop donors. so, it would be a much different story if this were just about vacations he was taking with his wife and the family, most people would write it off as, it was a trip. most people would not consider traveling with friends or associates as being something that is that big of a deal, that is not actually what we are talking about with clarence thomas, is it? no, it is another order of magnitude, it would seem. and it has been going on for years. i guess some part of me is surprised that you, not knowing the alito s, you re just a random member of the historical society, is able to even get within shoulder rubbing distance of a justice and then draw him into conversation about some of the most incendiary topics in this country, which is a partisan divide. how did it actually unfold when you were in the room with the justice? it should be stated that in the guidance for the events, the historical society says, if you broach topics that are before the court, it may be grounds for you to be kicked out and so there is definitely a deliberative process in, how do i approach someone that, you know, not only are judges supposed to be really the height of discretion, the height of, you know, judgment, right? this is the highest court in the land, this is the supreme court justice, so i definitely went into this assuming that i was not going to get anything newsworthy. in 2023, i did not get anything newsworthy. but, i thought, you know, throughout the year that transpired, the media s scrutiny on justice alito has intensified so much and his grievance level is probably so much more peaked, that unlike clarence thomas who did not show up to this dinner but has been reported to have shown up to it many times, and he did not show up in 2023, by the way, that justice alito would probably attend anyway, even though he was undergoing this very intense media glare and sure enough, he was there and i think, you know, it was just something that i can t say what was in his mind so i don t know if in 2023, he had the same level of grievance and, you know, it changed over the course of the year? there are a couple options there. did it change or was it always there and he just felt more comfortable? was it hard to get him to talk? at the very end of this conversation, he says, are you a lawyer? i think he is talking to your colleague, i am not sure if it is you or her but it wasn t like you had offered any biographical information other than you had a husband who is not in the room. and i wonder why you operate that piece of information? how did you actually get into conversation with him? did you go up to him and start talking to him? the reason why i brought up my husband was that in 2023, i came with a male friend. the context of it was, we had a conversation after dinner, in 2023, my male friend was with me , he was not with me in 2024, so when i saw justice alito solo, it was one-on-one. it was, hi, there, my husband really wants to let you know that we are rooting for you, that you really have all the grit. the reason why i said you have all the grit, if it does not stick out to people, this is because donald trump had treated something out about how , you know, there should be more justices like samuel alito , with the grit that samuel alito has, so i felt like it was kind of a flag, if you will , to justice alito, that it was a safe space for him? a safe space, yes. i was trying to signal to him very coyly without saying trump because it goes back to the way the conversation to bridge a conversation with someone who has the highest level of discretion come you can t talk about partisan politics, if i had locked up in answer to talking about joe biden or donald trump, he would have shut down. so talking about polarization was really a way into the conversation that wasn t as aggressive but also indicative of what i was really trying to get out, was, is he acting on bias? and i really do believe that the american people deserve to know, is the supreme court so compromise that we do not really have impartiality, the bedrock of our judicial system? i think hearing it from his mouth, that he cannot be impartial, there are things that cannot be compromised, that needs to be fuel for journalists and for congress to say, tell us, what are the things that can t be compromised? lauren, look. you brought us into a room that few people are ever in and i think these tapes are revelatory and they are coming at a time of crisis for this court. we are not in having this conversation, thank you for bringing some of that conversation to our air, we are really appreciative, thanks for spending some time with me tonight. thank you, alex pick coming up this hour, we have new details about donald trump s presentencing meeting with his probation officer. it turns out he is being treated differently, just maybe not in the way he would like you to believe pick for scott hunter biden today joined donald trump in becoming a convicted felon facing possible jail time. does that mean the system is now en route? we will get into the republican response, coming up next. next. chewy, a citi client, uses citi s financial expertise to help drive its growth and keep its supply chain moving, so more pet parents can get everything they need. right when they need it. keeping more pets, and families, happy. for the love of moving our clients forward. for the love of progress. if you have chronic kidney 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we could all unsubscribe and switch to xfinity. their connection is unreal. and we could all un-experience this whole session. okay, that s uncalled for. president biden s son, hunter biden, was found guilty today on three felony gun charges. given this news you might have thought maybe the conspiracy about president biden rigging the justice system, maybe you thought that is going to collapse. it did not. today is the first step in delivering accountability for the biden crime family pick we have been saying two-tier system of justice for some time. the president son being convicted on three counts [ inaudible ] it doesn t, every case is different and clearly the evidence is overwhelming here. do you think the department of justice is still left nice against conservatives even though we see this verdict today? absolutely, when they tell school moms they are domestic terrorists because they don t like what is being taught in their classroom and other things, we can go into it, but we can go into it, but we want. atrial campaign statement released today callcenter better s trial nothing more than a distraction from the real crimes of the biden crime family. and in lockstep with the party front-runner, the chairman of the house oversight committee, republican james, said the work will not be done until the department of justice investigates everyone involved in the the biden s correct influence peddling schemes. joining me now is the cofounder and editor at large of the bulwark. thank you for joining me. this criminal conviction is apparently a distraction from the real crimes of the biden crime family pick is that strategy going to work? today s conviction was awkward, right? it is awkward for the talking point that it was all right, that biden justice department was weapon eyes only against republicans. but we live in a world in which the reality and the fact have a hard time catching up, you can see how deeply invested republicans are in there talking point about the biden crime family pick so it is not a shock that they are going to continue to repeat those talking points over and over and over again. but, i do think the contrast and the reaction to the conviction of donald trump in the conviction of hunter biden has been very, very telling here. again, it is always difficult to know how it is going to play out. we may see this at the debate. and other biden folks think this is going to come up at the debate and you know donald trump is going to try to make an issue of the fact that the president s son is a convicted felon which will be offered, being a convicted felon himself . but democrats have been making this point and let me even make the point that there are a number of democrats who are facing indictments under the biden justice department, not just the president s own son, but a democratic senator, senator menendez, henry cuellar, down in texas, these are all democrats. if the system is so rigged, how do they explain that? the answer is, they don t feel the need to explain that at all. they are just going to go with a spin. i just wonder who the spin is for, right? you talk about the reaction, this was a statement from the president of the united states after his son is convicted of felonies. as i said last week, i am the president but i am also a dad, jill and i love our son and we are so proud of the man he is today. so many families who have had loveland battle addiction understand the feeling of pride seeing someone you love, out the other side and be so strong and resilient in recovery. as i also said last week, looks at the outcome of this case and will continue to respect the judicial process as hunter considers an appeal. jill and i will always be there for hunter and the rest of our family with our love and support. nothing will ever change that. it is a very strong statement, it is a tough statement for a father to make, and i think [ inaudible ] whatever the republican argument here is about biden rigging the system, among the [ inaudible ] i don t think there is any reason to doubt his word at this point. and again, this creates a really significant difference between the tantrum donald trump and his supporters have thrown and the acceptance of the rule of law and the decision of a jury that was represented with all of this evidence. the point you re making is, who is this for right now? almost everything republicans say is for the audience of one, it is for donald trump. this is what the base wants to hear about that is not the group of voters who will be deciding the selection. not to ask too poetic about it but i think embedded in biden s statement is a call to empathy, right? for those who have fallen, for people who have addiction and are trying to make it through a dark period, versus trump, who is all grievance all the time, and i think we think a lot we don t know a lot about where this country is headed, but really, appealing to people s since of forgiveness and empathy does not seem like a political strategy that has an expiration date. am i being too soft here? no, again, it is a very interesting contrast. if donald trump s superpower is his shamelessness, his refusal to ever take responsibility or apologize, joe biden s superpower is his empathy. and again, republicans aren t going to give him any credit for it but i do think there are a lot of americans who are going to say, this is a tragic situation, there are questions about hunter biden s judgment and his behavior, but also what you are seeing from joe biden is, this is what a father, a father who has lost his other son, how they would react to something like that. and i think there will be a sliver of the electorate, a crucial sliver, that is going to look at that and say we understand that seems human to us. that seems like something that we can identify with and admire as opposed to the constant conspiracy theories and the victim cardplaying and really, the vicious attacks on the criminal justice system and the jury system coming from donald trump. it is a real choice i had. this is going to be very, very indicative of who we are as a country. thank you again for your time, it is great see you. thank you. still to come this evening, we have new reporting about what appears to be a coordinated effort to broadcast disinformation about this fall s election on your local newscast. when it comes to donald trump a criminal conviction, republicans need a reality check. we have one, that is next. nex. with all the money i saved i thought i d buy stilts. being so tall definitely has its advantages. oh whoa. here you go, kiddo. thanks. hi honey ready to go? 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(vo) in two seconds, eric will realize they re gonna need more space. (man) gotta sell the house. (vo) oh.open houses. or, skip the hassles and sell directly to opendoor. (man) wow. (vo) when life s doors open, we ll handle the house. i just went through a rigged trial in new york. it is a rigged system, a terrible system, actually, but it is a rigged system. the whole system is rigged. this was a rigged trial by a conflicted judge who was corrupt. rigged, rigged, rigged, rigged. that has been donald trump by the refrain during his criminal trial in new york, the entire system is rigged against him. and yet, the system really seems to be bending in his favor lately as we saw yesterday at his probation interview. trump s interview lasted less than half an hour and trump was allowed to attend the meeting over zoom from his mar-a-lago beach club in florida. with his lawyer, seated by his side. just for perspective here, according to a statement released by multiple public defender groups in new york city, public defenders are deprived of joining their clients for these meetings, the option of joining these interviews virtually by zuma is typically not extended to the people we represent either. joining me now is duncan levin who was a federal prosecutor and served as a senior staffer in the manhattan va s office, he is now a criminal defense attorney. thank you for joining me to make sense of this madness her. first of all, the circumstances of this probation, they sound relatively easy, maybe even cushy but donald trump says that everything is rigged against him. who is right? this is something that is a routine and it typically takes hours. to the extent that there have been things that have been different for him, they have only been different in his favor. most defendants have to come there in person, it is a drab office, these things take hours, there are reports his probation interview took half an hour. this is an opportunity for probation to actually ask the types of questions that a judge might want to know on sentencing that don t come out in the trial. this defendant is somebody who is so well vetted, everybody knows everything, but for most defendants, the judge does not have a sense of who they are as a person. what their family situation is, with her immigration status is, are they using drugs? a lot of people notice about donald trump but you could say half an hour maybe all you need but the fact is, this is them doing their due diligence and to the extent that it is on zoom, the lawyer is there, it is only half an hour, to the extent it is rigged or indifferent, it is only been in his favor picked the other piece of this he likes bringing up is the presence in this case on the da side of amending matthew purkey. they were to the department of justice and now works for alvin and they have literally used matthew to be like, the missing link between job biden, the publisher of the justice department and alvin bragg, the prosecutor that has sought charges against donald trump. for people who aren t familiar with this line of attack, this is how comp talks about matthew. matthew colangelo is a radical left from the doj who was put into the state, working with lakisha james , and then was put into the district attorney s office to run the trial against trump. we will take issue with it put into passive in that statement but you have gone between the doj and the das office, so you know what it is like, i guess, to be a plant. first of all, is that a normal thing that happens? and how in line with reality is this argument? this is something that is also being jammed up on capitol hill a lot. in a letter today, the department of justice said this was conspiratorial speculation. i think it is something a lot more sinister and dark that is going on, this is an attempt to really undermine law enforcement and to so distrust of the public if enforcement function. first off, the manhattan das office and doj walk together all the time, everything today. there are joint task forces on terrorism, on hate crimes, there is a joint task force that looks the filings the banks viral, the suspicious activity reports, there have been drinking since i have been prosecuted by the department of justice and manhattan das office against banks like standard charter, hsbc, ing and barclays, there have been cases every day that rd conflicting between department of justice and the manhattan das office, they don t arrest the same person or step on each other s toes and people go back and forth, and from the manhattan das office to the aspersion of justice and back to the manhattan das office, robert morgan was the most famous manhattan da who served for 35 years from 1975 to 2010, prior to becoming elected as a manhattan da with the united states attorney for the southern district of new york. he was an obama plant quick exactly, a stooge of the ministration. it is preposterous, right? and yet there is no sense these cries of foul play are going to end anytime soon. this is all coming to a head on july 11 when there is the sentencing hearing for trump and i guess i wonder what your expectation for that is and whether there is anything to be done around the cries of foul play in a rigged system that are inevitably going to come up no matter what trump is sentenced to? this is such a hard decision for the judge and you would not wish it on your worst enemy and frankly on both sides, nobody should want him to go to jail or want anyone to go to jail, it is a sad day. that being said it is a tough decision for him to make. the prosecution is virtually going to be asking for jail time. the defense is looking for a conditional discharge saying he has been punished enough by the felony and that is it. it will be an outcry on both sides no matter what it is. this is something that is very difficult decision. i don t know that there is any way to the political thicket of it, other than to say this is a judge who has really been around the block and will be taking this seriously unfairly and i think you ll see a sentence that is free of some of those political considerations, something that he will be, maybe dom amato, but i think both sides will be able to make of it like a rorschach test, if you will, they will be able to argue around it what ever it is. that is not exactly you are not giving me the inside dope on what you think it would be and i would never put you on the spot for that, but for all the we have seen thus far it feels like the volume is only going to increase. thank you, my friend, for being here, helping us all through this. coming up, trump appointee judge eileen cannon tosses out part of trump s indictment in the classified documents case. we are going to get to that but first, some very orwellian messaging broadcast from your trusted local news station, that is next. next. at bombas, we re obsessed with comfort. softness. quality. because your basic things should be your best things. one purchased equals one donated. visit bombas.com and get 20% off your first order. when life spells heartburn. how do you spell relief? r-o-l-a-i-d-s rolaids dual-active formula begins to neutralize acid on contact. r-o-l-a-i-d-s spells relief. our greatest responsibility is to serve our treasure valley communities. eastern iowa communities. we are extremely proud of the quality balanced journalism that cbs-4 news produces. but we are concerned about a troubling trend of irresponsible, one-sided news stories plaguing our country. we are concerned about a troubling trend of irresponsible, one-sided news stories plaguing our country. do you remember that nightmare fuel from 2018? the media organization, sinclair broadcast group, which owns nearly 200 local tv news outlets, had dozens of their local anchors across the country all read the same orwellian script about bias in the media. unfortunately, some members of the media use their platforms to push their own personal bias and agenda to control exactly what people think. this is extremely dangerous to our democracy. today, sinclair broadcast group was caught again, with dozens of local anchors, again, reading the same script. the newsletters public notice and popular information first brought attention to the copycat newscast, which featured a script you might say has a very clear, conservative agenda. the wall street journal calling into question the mental fitness of president joe biden. illustrate journalism with reporting calling into question the mental fitness of president joe biden. is national correspondent matt galka tells us, the issue could be an election decider. the issue could be an election decider. now, the story, these dozens of local news outlets ran with was based on a widely panned piece in the wall street journal last week, claiming that behind closed doors, president biden was showing signs of mental slippage. the only people quoted on the record in that piece to support that reporting were republican officials, including former speaker of the house, kevin mccarthy, who is not at all known for being the most reliable anything. meanwhile, several democrats including senator chris have come out publicly to say that they get quotes to the wall street journal for that piece and the paper chose not to include them. include them. chose not to include them. said he told the journal that biden is someone who is sharp, engaged, and leads the conversation. on aside from the clear partisan edge to all of this, recent polling from gallup says that americans have very low trust in media outlets. just 32% of the country trust the media. but, that is not true when it comes to local news. pew research polling from earlier this year showed that 71% of americans trust their local news outlets. which is what makes what sinclair is doing here snow so nefarious. maybe you don t trust the wall street journal or cable news, but it might trust the station that gives them the weather, and that is the real issue. that issue could be an election decider. election decider. because there are places you d like to be. farxiga can cause serious side effects, including ketoacidosis that may be fatal, dehydration, urinary tract, or genital yeast infections, and low blood sugar. a rare, life-threatening bacterial infection in the skin of the perineum could occur. stop taking farxiga and call your doctor right away if you have symptoms of this infection, an allergic reaction, or ketoacidosis. far-xi-ga they say we should stop eating so much meat. an allergic reaction, or ketoacidosis. so we made meat out of plants. because we aren t quitters. impossible. we re solving the meat problem with more meat. if you have generalized myasthenia gravis, picture what life could look like with. vyvgart hytrulo, a subcutaneous injection that takes about 30 to 90 seconds. for one thing, could it mean more time for you? 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it is certainly not a critical factor. all this means is that it is not sitting in what is otherwise known as a speaking indictment. it is still information prosecutors can bring out at trial, and almost certainly will litigate to make sure they can bring it out, as evidence of a prior bad act strictly in the context of mr. trump s intent, his motive, his desire, his willingness to conceal this information that he knew he knew he had classified documents, he knew he wasn t authorized to have them and he was retaining them at mar-a- lago. this is a minor, little victory for mr. trump. otherwise, the motion was denied. otherwise, the issue, of course, is that it just took so long. this could have been resolved weeks ago. it never needed to take this long. if it is not a significant win for trump, is it indicative, though, of a broader tension between the special counsel s office and this judge? because throughout this case and it seems like it has ratcheted up in recent months there is maybe not a volley because it seems like it is coming from one side, the judge does not seem happy with jack smith or his team. yes, certainly the tensions continue to boil and they have reached the point where in a hearing just a few weeks ago, prosecutors were so upset and frustrated with their attempts to try to explain to judge cannon their view on the case law and how certain legal precedents apply that the judge had to basically counsel them to calm down. none of us were there, i don t know how badly that got out of hand, but it is never a good sign when you are a lawyer and the judge is telling you to calm down. but, let s be honest about where this is going. judge cannon, for whatever reason, has chosen to take a slow and methodical approach. she hasn t granted donald trump anything of substance, yet, at any point in this case. but because of how she has dragged it out, because she is making sure the classified portions in particular are taking forever, it is almost guaranteed this will never see the light of day, it will never go to trial before people go to the voting booth in november. that seems guaranteed, there seems to be a question about whether we will see the trial, period. but, that seems to be based on politics. trump filed another motion to dismiss today, this one says that the fbi destroyed evidence by not preserving exactly where the classified material was in proximity to nonclassified material and trump is arguing he didn t pack the boxes, he didn t know what was in there. how substantive is this? or, does it matter, is it just more delay, delay, delay? i think it is largely a delay tactic, but the hope is that they might get an evidentiary hearing, something big mentioned in the motion, they want a hearing to probe into how this was conducted, how the boxes were organized, this way whether or not there is something to whether there are allegations of bias or improper storage. on the merits, it s garbage. it has nothing to do with anything in terms of destruction of evidence, and it doesn t absolve trump of the idea that he willfully retained the documents. he knew he had them in 2022, when he turned stuff over to the archives. they told him, hey, there s classified documents in this stuff. they knew he had them over the course of the next year, talking to his lawyers telling him, turn them over. and the fbi kept funding stuff in what you are turning over. it will ultimately not change anything, but quite possibly with the way judge cannon handles things, it could drag it out just a little bit more. just a little bit more. we are now at the first anniversary of the mar-a-lago case, the grand jury and bob dikeman came down on june 8th, 2023. anyone s guess if we get to the second anniversary. bradley moss, thank you, sir, for your time tonight. have a good night. that is our show for this evening. now, it is time for the last word , with jonathan k part. lawrence o donnell come in for jonathan.
again, along with obamacare, of course. the funny thing is, trump is using this approach to try to appeal to latino voters, while at the same time promising to bring to america the political style and economic policies of the strongmen leaders of places like argentina and venezuela, which have some of the highest inflation rates in the world right now. make it make sense. tomorrow is set to be a big day for economic news. we will get a new inflation report in the morning and the fed will give an update on interest rates in the afternoon. so is rachel maddow would say, watch this space. and that is tonight s reidout . you can follow me on tiktok and instagram and follow our show accounts on instagram and tick tock. all in with chris hayes starts now. tonight on all in as we deliberated today, we reached a verdict pretty quick. the presidents son found guilty of violating federal gun laws. no one in this country is above the law. everyone must be accountable for their actions, even this offender. tonight, what today s verdict does and does not mean about the rule of law in america. everyone is saying, where is hunter? a two-tiered system of justice we have. and how we campaign led by a convict is vetting potential running mates. certainly like having committed a crime and the scandal that just won t end. i want a sacred heart of jesus flag because i have to look across the lagoon at the pride flag. tonight jamie raskin and aoc together on their push to get answers from the supreme court. can you tell us how the supreme court and specifically the chief justice have addressed these scandals? when all in starts right now. good evening from new york. i am chris hayes. in a political era marked by a never-ending string of historic firsts, here is another today. a rare court decision that conservatives received with glee. hunter biden has been found guilty on all counts in his gun trial, federal trial in wilmington, delaware. hunter biden, the last living son of the sitting president was convicted today on three felony counts connected to lying on a federal firearms application in 2018 by not disclosing his struggles with drug addiction. he had that gun for 11 days. hunter biden now faces 25 years in prison and his father, president joe biden, did not blast the case as a crooked witchhunt. he did not target the prosecutors, the judge and the jurors, some of whom called into major news shows to discuss the verdict with no fears for their safety in this high-profile case. president biden did not shake his fist at the justice system. he put up this statement. as i said last week, i am the president, but i am also a dad. jill and i love our son and we are so proud of the man he is today. so many families who have had loved ones battle addiction understand the feeling of pride. as i also said last week, i will accept the outcome of this case and will continue to respect the judicial process as hunter considers an appeal. jill and i will always be there for hunter and the rest of our family with our love and support. nothing will ever change that. i have to say i find that genuinely touching. his love of family. also respect of the process. it is an incredibly stark contrast to the ceaseless barrage of absolutely unhinged authoritarian histrionics we all witnessed last month. remember? not just donald trump, but the entire republican party. all of the people dressing up like donald trump who went to the courthouse so he will pick them to be vice president. all of them basically calling to tear down the entire judicial system or casting aspersions on new york jurors or the judge or the prosecutor. everyone. all because their nominee got caught falsifying business records and was convicted unanimously by a jury of his peers on 34 felony counts. this was a rigged trial by a convicted judge who was corrupt. a disgrace. this is like a soviet style thing. show me the person and i will show you the crime. this was a political smear job. this is what you see in banana republics. this is the most outrageous travesty i ve ever seen. this is a justice system that hunts republicans while protecting democrats. this was a hoax, a sham. do we want to become a country where we try to jail are political opponents? what do you think the party affiliation of hunter biden is? and so this hunter biden conviction is as clear a moment of contrast as possible between the two major coalitions, the major parties in the country today. what it illustrates is that one party, under donald trump, and this is important, has placed itself outside the american constitutional order, while the other is trying to defend and uphold it. that was clear as day on january 6, but particularly in the aftermath there was palpable were among republicans. lots of them talking about how horrified they were and resigning from the administration and all of that. and there was a sense the party wanted to distance themselves from trump s lawlessness. that was then. today they are fully united as a party in opposition to the constitution. an attitude by one of the most powerful conservatives you ve never heard of. he wrote portions of the heritage foundation s project 2025 on how to remake the executive branch and a trump presidency. the washington post identified him as a potential chief of staff. he lays out his vision for a post-constitutional presidency to turn the government into a flatly authoritarian project or failing that, just a mafia style. disease more control of the justice department and assert power to withhold congressional appropriations and that is just on trump s first day back in office. meanwhile democrats are not just making statements of faith, they have taken real actions to preserve those institutions and their independence. no better example of this is the prosecution of hunter biden. remember how this started? okay, back in 2018 under david weiss, the u.s. attorney trump appointed in delaware, the fbi probed hunter biden. there were subpoenas, but there were no charges and remember, trump grew angry that his justice department had not publicized the investigation into his opponents son during the 2020 election. after trump lost the election, republicans insisted president biden would obstruct justice to keep his son free and they called for a special counsel to investigate. when a new president comes and it is his right to replace any u.s. attorney they want. they usually do. biden replaced all of trump s appointees except for two. who bill barr had test to investigate the russia probe. and david weiss, who was investigating his own son. that is because the new president, at the pains of a possible criminal conviction of his surviving son in recovery, wanted no appearance of impropriety or interference and infect biden s attorney general merrick garland went a step further and appointed weiss as special counsel to make sure his work on the hunter biden case was truly independent. that was a move that republicans opposed. the house judiciary committee writing, david weiss can t be trusted. this is just a new way to whitewash the biden family corruption. after all that an appeal deal was worked out with hunter biden and ultimately rejected by the courts. weiss ended up charging the president son for an offense so rarely prosecuted that even trey gowdy, the former congressman and prosecutor, could scarcely believe it. i did gun prosecutions for six years. i went after convicted felons. i went after people who were fugitives from justice. i went after lots of different people who were prohibited from possessing a firearm, but i bet there were not 10 cases prosecuted nationwide of addicts or unlawful drug users who possess firearms or lied on applications. i bet there weren t a dozen, which makes you wonder of all the cases you could be pursuing in delaware, why are you pursuing this one? all of this was facilitated by democrats in the white house and department of justice and capitol hill to restore faith in equal justice under the law and the norms of the constitutional order. donald trump flagrantly violated the law, interfering with the department of justice. stewing when he could not interfere further. publicly calling for prosecutions. you may have forgotten that months into his presidency troubles calling federal prosecutors and cultivating relationships with them, including the u.s. attorney for the southern district of new york. and obama holdover who was overseeing the investigation into stock trades made by trump s health secretary. he said those calls made him uncomfortable and he was fired as u.s. attorney less than a day after he finally refused to take a call from president trump. the administration would later tell propublica, trump s personal attorney bragged about getting him fired with reportedly telling trump, this guy is going to get you. the former united states attorney for the southern district of new york joins me now. an interesting study in contrast over the past few weeks. what strikes you about the reaction? when you think about the biden family and how joe biden in particular thinks about his job and not just his job, but his family. upon a conviction or before the conviction, the arrest and indictment of his son, given what his family has been through, you would think every fatherly instinct would ve been to protect him. if you are a father, and i know you are, you love your children more than you love yourself. you try to protect them from harm and you try to protect them from bad consequences. the biden family has suffered lots of bad things as a family and yet there are some things more important than that when you are the commander in chief and basically the president of the country and one of those things is that no one is above the law and the rule of law matters. here is an occasion as you were playing out in the intro, where joe biden had absolute authority. literal authority. he had no authority over robin bragg and did not direct the prosecution of donald trump. it is his justice department. he had the authority to direct people not to prosecute his son. he could have fired the special counsel. he could have directed the special counsel not be appointed in the first place. he could have pardoned his son preemptively. all of that conduct, given that it is his son, it kind of makes you pause and think about ton about how unbelievable that is. in a million years, if the shoe were on the other foot and donald trump was facing his son being prosecuted, by me if i had been held over. a biden holdover prosecutor, not in a million years with that have happened. some of the people on the right, the people who support donald trump, are trying to cast this as some clever program by which this actually proves they yes. i will say it is outlandish imagining don junior getting in trouble with guns and drugs, but stephen miller said this. the gun charges are a misdirection and an easy opt to sell to a quiet media that is also willing to be duped. this is about protecting joe biden and only joe biden. no matter what happens, right, the corrupt deep system is deeper than you realized. if every possible outcome, every possible permutation is arguably a point in your favor, maybe your position is terrible. i used a different word than terrible. honestly i don t even think he was required to keep david weiss on in delaware. honestly, when i say bend over backwards, that is bending over it would have been perfectly reasonable to replace him. obviously it would not be reasonable to say wink wink, nagy nudge. but if you say do your thing. by the way some other features are important to point out and you mentioned some in the intro. the jury verdict came out. they did not dox the jury or attack the judge. he did not say this is a witch hunt. he said what people say. what i used to say when i was u.s. attorney for 7 1/2 years. you win some and you lose some. we say we respect the verdict of the jury. completely opposite to what donald trump said. it was striking. after that trump verdict, i remember judge kaplan in the federal civil trial with e. jean carroll told the jurors, look, you can talk to the press if you want. i would advise you not to. in alvin bragg s case they did not and i think we all know the reason. they would expose themselves to harassment and possible threats and violence. here you had the jurors talking to us, which, great, am a reporter. i like it, but what a contrast. it is a very stark contrast and i think it goes to show that when joe biden and his supporters talk about the rule of law and nobody being above the law, they mean it. you can disagree with joe biden s policies and talk about the border and all of these things that are not in my bailiwick, but on the question of whether or not the rule of law is to be enforced and no favor given to anyone, including the son of a sitting president of the united states. the republicans are full of it on trump side and biden is not. he has walked the walk. my final question for you is about independence in the department of justice. we have a post mix in order. one of the things about nixon and the reckoning at a level of regulation, norms, and that schuetz was the department of justice can t just be a tool in the hands of the executive to pursue vendetta to prosecute and punish enemies to protect friends. the trump vision is exactly that and in fact, explicitly that. they really think we are going to come in and it is going to be like day one, go open an investigation on that person, prosecute them. what they have accused everyone else of doing. there is a great irony. one of the cases pending against donald trump, the mar-a-lago documents case in federal court in florida, donald trump steam has made a number of motions to dismiss the indictment. one of those is vindictive prosecution. there is no evidence that joe biden or anyone else directed the investigation and prosecution and indictment. by saying the things they are saying now that you are pointing out, donald trump is ironically laying out the foundation for a vindictive prosecution motion to dismiss on behalf of all the current people donald trump will be going after. he is announcing his plans before election. all of those statements and those plans, project 20/25 and everything else, will be chapter and verse and asking for those dismissals of those indictments. coming up, congresswoman alexandria ocasio-cortez and jamie raskin on the litany of scandals rocking the supreme court, but first, what we are learning about donald trump s rude awakening from the justice system, next. system, next. shop etsy anytime for furniture, lighting, and other thoughtful pieces made by real people to bring a little something extra to the ordinary. find handmade items that add wow to your walls, help your party set-up pop, and new things to help you fall in love with your family room again. when you want 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swelling. tell your doctor about your medical history, muscle or nerve conditions, and medications, including botulinum toxins as these may increase the risk of serious side effects. see for yourself at botoxcosmetic.com. donald trump has been convicted of 34 felonies so now americans, the ones who don t know at least, are getting a crash course in the way things change when you become a felon in this country. since his conviction in new york trump is expected to have his gun license revoked under federal law. convicted felons are prohibited from possessing a gun. that was part of the issue in the hunter trial. it is unclear what that means for guns in his possession now with cnn reporting he told the probation officer yesterday he has a gun in florida. he could lose his liquor licenses for his golf clubs because new jersey law prohibits any person who has been convicted of a crime of moral turpitude from possessing a liquor license. the question, have you ever been convicted of a crime, is often on job applications. it is the subject of campaigns to get rid of it, to help former convicts get jobs and reenter society. that question is apparently still part of the vetting of trump s vice presidential pick, where it seems only one member of the ticket gets to be a felon. they asked us for a number of things. i think a number of people have been asked to submit this and that. like your taxes or something? criminal background? have you committed a crime? have you ever lied about this? certainly you have those conversations. he extensively covered trump world including his recent reporting on the juror. it is interesting to watch folks who don t know this and to watch the various implications of being convicted of a felony and all the different types of regulations and things you cannot do. in some states it is disenfranchisement, voting, liquor licenses and the like. being a person of color and a former prosecutor, i am unmoved by these newfound epiphanies on the right with respect to the reality of life in america if you are a convicted felon. one thing i find to be particularly interesting is how the right is scrambling to rearrange the narrative of what it is to be a felon. think of this for a moment. you re talking about the party that planted its flag on the notion of law and order in america, now having to walk out and say it is politically advantageous for our candidate to have 34 convictions on his record. this is a narrative they are not going to be able to square, but it is funny to watch them try. he invited in the bronx on stage, folks who are facing charges for a broad conspiracy with people that includes moving heavy drugs and violent crime. very serious, gnarly stuff. and has them on the stage like hey, this is our thing now. let s be clear, you are talking about whether someone is an associate of new orleans. an associate of felons. the list is long. i think they are trying to be like, it is actually good we are felons and they don t actually believe that. it s amazing how much the tough on crime philosophy falls by the wayside when it is the racist game show hosts turn in the barrel. donald trump and his minions talk day in and day out about a two-tiered system of justice. he is correct that one does exist in this country, it is just he is at this tier and everyone else s at this tier. so many things no other defendant could get away with. including the judge and all that stuff, he would have been put in jail for sure. absolutely and now behind the scenes and in the open he and his maga brain trust are getting ready to exploit parts of the u.s. criminal code to go after alvin bragg, letitia james, jack smith, if he returns to power in 2025. some of this is being cooked up behind the scenes and policy papers, but so much is being done in the open. you ve also got them moving to get alvin bragg before a committee. he will testify with the gop led judiciary committee. one question i had about all of this, does any of this matter in the process that trump was going through? no, it does not. you don t think it matters, talking about it is all rigged? does that matter for sentencing? donald trump s public rhetoric absolutely matters. i thought you were referring to alvin bragg going to capitol hill, which is something i think he should not do. with respect to the things donald trump is parroting in the dialogue around his case, that matters. one of the things the probation officer is going to take into account is what degree of understanding and remorse do you have? i screwed up, i m sorry. exactly. to walk in his office and say that when you have every opportunity with the microphone in front of your face. you ve reported on this and this has been going around the house republican leaders are privately gauging support for legislation that would let current and former presidents move a state case to federal court. have you heard any of that? we reported in rolling stone at the end of last month that trump had been personally calling around to different conservative allies, including republican lawmakers on capitol hill, to lobby them. when i m back in office, wouldn t it be great if you passed legislation that is ready for me to sign to have former and current presidents be able to move their cases to federal court. again, i think they are getting high on their own supply. i feel like that is a bad bill to vote for. for a front-line republican member. right? i m not crazy. if you are a maga lawmaker, certainly there is a cute appeal to it. it is not only moderate republicans on capitol hill saying maybe we shouldn t do this. i ve spoken to cronies who are close to donald trump who have told me maybe we should not go down this route because don t we want to use state a.g. s and conservative district attorneys to go after joe biden or hillary clinton? yes, the principal applying equally would hang them up. there is back and forth about the gun situation, charles. i m sure you have encountered this. what does the law say about whether he can keep the gun in florida? in your crime. he more likely than not will need to turn the gun in in florida. he is going to have a grace period where that is allowed. well technically he might be in violation of the law upon notice of conviction, he is probably going to be allowed but it does not surprise me he has to turn it in in florida. there is an incredible thing happening which is the hunter biden conviction was about a felony conviction. he lied on forms. committing a felony in terms of taking drugs and owning a gun. so he lied on the forms. now we have the ex-president holding a gun, having been convicted of a felony. a remarkable set of circumstances. charles coleman, asawin suebsaeng, thank you both. still to come, samuel alito s wife has more thoughts about flags, amazingly. aoc and jamie raskin on the supreme court legitimacy crisis, ahead. 50 days!? and its refill reminder light means i ll never miss a day of 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i think it is one of these things were trump didn t think there was a problem with it. i think he thought it was fully within his rights to order the breakup of any company he did not like and i think white house counsel sort of restrained that. there is so much circumstantial evidence that the white house and presidency were involved in antitrust decisions that it is hard to deny it. you can find the full conversation i had in this area. scan the qr code that is on your screen. also you can listen to it wherever you get your podcasts. impossible. we re solving the meat problem with more meat. i was stuck. unresolved depression symptoms were in my way. i needed more from my antidepressant. vraylar helped give it a lift. adding vraylar to an antidepressant is clinically proven to help relieve overall depression symptoms better than an antidepressant alone. and in vraylar clinical studies, most saw no substantial impact on weight. elderly dementia patients have increased risk of death or stroke. report unusual changes in behavior or suicidal thoughts. antidepressants can increase these in children and young adults. report fever, stiff muscles, or confusion, as these may be life-threatening, or uncontrolled muscle movements, which may be permanent. high blood sugar, which can lead to coma or death, weight gain, and high cholesterol may occur. movement dysfunction and restlessness are common side effects. stomach and sleep issues, dizziness, increased appetite, and fatigue are also common. side effects may not appear for several weeks. i didn t have to change my treatment. i just gave it a lift. ask about vraylar and learn how abbvie could help you save. dad is a legend. and his legendary moves might be passed down to you. dancing is just one of the many inherited traits you can discover with ancestry dna. get it for dad, and together you can see which traits were inherited, the places where they started, and the people he shares them with. best of all, it s on sale for father s day. but get movin , this sale is only for a limited time. upset stomach iberogast indigestion iberogast bloating iberogast thanks to a unique combination of herbs, iberogast helps relieve six digestive symptoms to help you feel better. six digestive symptoms. the power of nature. iberogast. shop etsy for thoughtful pieces made by real people to bring a little something extra to the ordinary. find items that add wow to walls and make you fall in love with your family room again. when you want one-of-a-kind pieces to refresh your home. etsy has it. no two bodies are the same. some pads, never got that message. but, always flexfoam did! it protects against different flows for up to zero leaks. and it flexes to fit all bodies, for up to zero feel. feel it yourself with always flexfoam. when we say it ll be on time, they expect it to be on time. turn shipping to your advantage. keep those expectations with reliable ground shipping. thanks brandon. with usps ground advantage®. we re talking about cashbackin. not a game! we re talking about cashbacking. we re talking about. we re not talking about practice? 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the opposite of pride. the alito s have not responded to requests for comment but none of what ms. alito said change the facts that justice alito allowed this to fly over his home while he sits in the highest court in the land hearing cases related to the insurrection on january 6 and sits on the court with his buddy clarence thomas whose wife was interviewed by the committee about her text with donald trump s chief of staff. both refused to recuse themselves, despite the obvious appearance of bias. when faced with an increasingly urgent question, what can be done about the out-of-control court? today democrats held a roundtable on the ethical crisis in the supreme court. i should note that one of the expert legal witnesses there was my wife. leading the panel was jamie raskin, the ranking member of the oversight committee and newark congresswoman alexandria ocasio-cortez, the vice ranking member, and they join me now. it is good to have you on. thanks for having us. i will start with you and what the agenda was today. obviously you can t call hearings yourself as a ranking member and not the chair, but what were you trying to do today? oversight democrats wanted to respond to the national clamor over this crisis of legitimacy at the supreme court. so we analyzed the ethics crisis. we analyzed the political crisis around what got us into this and the blockaded confirmations of people like merrick garland, nominated by president obama to the court, and then we began to talk about what things could be done in the specific case of justices alito and thomas and generally about the ethical collapse of the supreme court. it is the highest court in the land with the lowest ethical standards. the only government officials in the land who are not governed by a binding ethics code. there is no process by which we can hold any of them accountable, so it violates the essential principle that james madison identified as the heart of our justice system. which is that no man can be a judge in his own cause. so we began to explore different avenues of holding them accountable. congresswoman, you said something toward the end of the hearing that it cannot be the case as a constitutional matter, as an almost intuitive commonsense matter, that they are not subject to any checks. we have three branches. checks and balances move between the positions and justice alito said in the wall street journal interview that congress has no ability to regulate us whatsoever. what should congress be doing? what are you brainstorming basically? what is the conversation about what those can be? of course justice alito s position is laughable in this. this idea that he can be and that the court should be accountable to nobody and that the only person they should be accountable to our themselves. this kind of scouts promise sort of set up for how we should be having ethics standards for the highest and most consequential court in the land. it is completely unacceptable and not only is it unacceptable but to have anyone of our coequal branches be completely unaccountable to the others is paving the path to authoritarianism, tyranny, the abuse of power in the united states. it is structurally, completely unsustainable. so it is not a question of if congress has jurisdiction and power over the supreme court. it is what power are we going to exercise in order to reign in a fundamentally unaccountable and rogue court? one of the beautiful things about today s roundtable is we were also able to call in one of our senate colleagues, senator whitehouse, who has been pursuing extensive investigations into the dark money network that has been exerting influence over the court and we raised and discussed varying measures from term limits to an actual binding ethics standard and also congressman raskin and myself will be introducing forthcoming legislation to even have the supreme court be subject to the same $50 gift rule that he and i are subject to, as are everyone else who are members of congress. that is a great point. my understanding, i was talking to my wife, kate shaw, about this. to give testimony during the hearing. she pointed out to me if i am not mistaken that things, for instance, you can get a book deal as a supreme court justice. that is allowed. but you could not like to be a partner that is something that congress passed a statute to say what you could and could not do, because obviously it would be nuts to be a supreme court justice and have a side gig as a lawyer. we all understand that. congress can pass statutes that say this activity is just not allowed. congress has a ban on outside employment and as aoc was saying, we have a $50 gift ban, so none of us goes anywhere near doing that. you don t do $500,000 vacations? that s the comical thing. members of congress don t even understand that. under what circumstance would a supreme court justice be accepting hundreds of thousands of dollars or millions of dollars in foreign travel were paid tuition for family members or a recreational vehicle, motor stagecoach? it is outlandish for us to complicate to contemplate. it is like the normal business as usual at the supreme court that they are collecting millions of dollars and hundreds of thousands of dollars from their so-called friends. we need to clean that up. we said we will start with something simple that the whole country will be able to understand immediately and intuitively. we want a $50 gift ban. they make $300,000 a year. pay for your own lunch and pay for your own vacation. that does seem quite clear, congresswoman, and also has the advantage again. there are particular issues to deal with, but in some ways the only way to legislate it or for congress to act is outlining broad principles that are equally applicable. absolutely and as all of us as public servants, whether it is both chambers of congress, any of us are subject to the same or similar uniform code of ethics and the fact that the supreme court, which is already unelected, at least for those of us who run for office we have to re-run for office every two years in the house. for an unelected body of nine people, appointed for life, to not have any sort of binding, strict ethics code to which they cannot only be held accountable, but which can be enforced, is actually ludicrous. and it is almost unbelievable that we are sitting here in the year 2024, over 200 years after the establishment of this country, and that we actually have not addressed this issue. it is long past doing and it is common sense. one of the things we addressed, chris, was how the private corruption of the justices mirrors the public corruption of justice. it is this roberts court, this right-wing court dismantling civil rights laws, civil liberties, women s rights to choose, labor law, consumer law, you name it. as they grow more and more removed from the experiences of the way the rest of us live, the more they are willing to demolish the protections. the there are a bunch of things that happened outside of the ap purview that you have to do with equal justice under law and i wonder if both of you would stick around to talk ul about that, is that all right? 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i mean, it was very presidential and, you know, he showed in his statement love for his son and love for his country including the rule of law. the different reactions between a republican colleagues and our democratic colleagues with the trump verdict and hunter biden verdict, it is just astounding. nobody on our side said that the fix was in, nobody said that it was a travesty, nobody said that the justice needs to be turned upside down. everybody accepted it. hunter biden, like donald trump, had the right of counsel which you exercise, you have the presumption of innocence, he had the right to take the stand which he chose not to do like donald trump chose not to take the stand and they have both had unanimous jury verdicts finding that they were guilty on all counts. so i am saying about that what i said about donald trump s verdict which is, they have a right to appeal and they can do that under due process, thank god we have got that in america. and we are going to stand by the rule of law and the system of justice, for the same reason that we are fighting for a supreme court that restores its integrity and reputation because we need to have that kind of confidence, not just at the trial level in federal court or state court. we need to have it going all the way up. those of supreme court justices are just a complete runaway body. speaking of state court in new york, congresswoman, obviously you represent part of new york, there was a huge amount of insults and vitriol that has been directed at alvin bragg both from donald trump on down and people carrying water for him, that has now escalated. he will now he is being called by the house republicans before the judiciary committee and be grilled by house republicans who have rallied behind mr. trump since his conviction last month. gop lawmakers are perpetuating his false narrative that president biden ordered his prosecution. what you think about the fact that they are not escalating to the point where they will call alvin bragg before congress? what we are seeing here unseld is an outright abuse of power in the politicization of the seats of power these republicans hold in order to intimidate the courts and exact political revenge. we have to just look at this from a basic jurisdictional point of view. alvin bragg is not even this is not even a federal case in the same way. we are looking at a state court. and we are looking at municipal and state courts and we have republicans who are trying to haul them in, on what grounds exactly? this is not federal court, they do not have jurisdiction over it, this is truly just and attempt at public targeting. and we see that they do this, this is in the middle of donald trump, it is in the model of invoking and trying to incite as much anger and intimidation in order for them to get the outcomes that they want. they are so eager to be fans to donald trump that their political judgment is off because that is not where the public is and the public understands, with the hunter biden verdict in the donald trump verdict, the rule of law is just working and they are intervening, as you say, and an estate case in order simply to placate donald trump pics to precisely, what we are also seeing here is the stark contrast between joe biden and donald trump. and in president biden, we have both come yes, a loving father who is there to be supportive of his son, but also a president who respects rule of law and is willing to accept the outcomes of the case even if that outcome is not in favor with his family or his personal outcomes. whereas, you have donald trump who takes and finances the seats of government, the seats of power, and embarks on a campaign, a political intimidation, in order to secure outcomes that personally benefit him. and that at the core is part of the sticks of our democracy that are before us today. because once rule of law goes out the window, it is not something that is easy to get back and it is very much a part of the decision that we have to make before us in the next few months. congresswoman alexandria ocasio-cortez, congressman jamie raskin, thank you for your time tonight. i really appreciate it. that is all in on this tuesday night. alex wagner tonight starts now. we have new exclusive audio from the supreme court historical society that lauren winsor has given us and we will be playing that in the hour, so stay tuned. i will pick like i said, exclusive never before heard audio recordings of justice samuel alito speaking to an undercover
we can secure our world. don t just use a password alone. mfa sends a call, a text or a code to your phone. learn more at cisa.gov/secureourworld that s how we can secure our world! on that note, i wish you a very good night. from all our colleagues across the networks of nbc news, thank you for staying up late. i will see you tomorrow. tonight on all in. as we deliberate, we reached a verdict pretty quickly. the president s son found guilty of violating federal gun laws. no one in the country is above the law. everyone must be accountable for their actions. what the verdict means and does not mean about the rule of law in america. everyone is saying where is hunter? two tiered system of just a we have. the campaign led by compact is vetting potential running mates. i don t know. certainly, like, you committed a crime. the alito scandal that will not end. you know what i want? i want a sacred heart of jesus flag because i have to look across the lagoon at the pride flag for the month. jamie raskin on the push to get answers from the supreme court. can you tell us about how the supreme court and specifically the chief justice have addressed the scandals? all in starts right now. good evening from new york. i m chris hayes. in a political era marked by seemingly never ending string of historic firsts, there s another one today. a record decision the conservatives received with glee. hunter biden has been found guilty on all counts in his gun trial. federal trial in wilmington. hunter biden, the last living son of the sitting president was convicted today on three felony counts related to his lying on a federal firearms application in 2018 by not disclosing the struggles with drug addiction. he had the gun for 11 days. hunter biden now faces as much as 25 years in prison and his father, president biden, did not blast the case is a which one or target the prosecutors, judge, and jurors some of whom called into cable news shows to discuss the verdict with no major fears for their own safety in this high-profile case. president biden did not shake his fist at the justice system. he put up the statement. as i said last week, i am the president but i am also a debt. jill and i love our son and we are proud of the man he is today. so many families who ve had loved ones battle addiction understand the feeling of pride seeing someone, the other side and be so strong and resilient in recovery. as i also said, will accept the outcome of this case and will continue to respect the judicial process is hunter considers an appeal. jill and i will always be there for hunter and the rest of our family with our love and support. nothing will ever change that. i find that genuinely touching. love of family, respect for the process. its income incredibly stark contrast to the ceaseless barrage of absolutely unhinged authoritarian histrionics we all witnessed last month. remember? not just from donald trump but the entire republican party. other people dressing up as donald trump who went to the courthouse so he will pick them to be the vice president and mob chanting for them to be hanged. all of them calling to tear down the entire judicial system are casting aspersions at new york jurors or near justice for the judge or the prosecutor. all because their nominee got caught falsifying business records and was convicted unanimously by a jury of his peers on 34 felony counts. this was a rigged trial by a conflicted judge who was corrupt . a rigged trial, a disgrace. this is like the soviet style thing. show me the person and i ll show you the crime. it was a smear job. it was an attack job. it s what you see in a banana republic. the problem is democrats have crossed the line. it s a justice system the hunch republicans while protecting democrats. this was a hoax. a sham. do we want to become a country where we jail political opponents? republicans and protects democrats. what do you think the party affiliation of hunter biden is? and so, this hunter biden conviction is as clear a moment of contrast as possible between the two major coalitions, the major parties and political polls today. what did illustrates is one party under donald trump, and this is important, has placed itself outside the american constitution while the other still trying to defend and uphold of. that was closed in january 6 but at that time, particularly the aftermath, there was palpable horror among republicans. lots of them talking how horrified they were. re-signing from the administration and all that. there was a sense the party wanted to distance themselves from trump s lawlessness. that was then. today they are fully united as a party in opposition to that. attitude typified by possibly the most powerful conservative you ve never heard of russ vought, portions of the heritage foundation project 2025 on how to remake the executive branch in a trump presidency. this week, the washington post identified russ vought as a potential chief of staff and the trump administration even if he lays out his vision for a post-constitutional presidency to turn the government into a flatly authoritarian project or failing that, just a mafia state. reporting that he is help craft proposals from trump to deploy the military to quash civil unrest, seize control of the justice department, and assert the power of appropriations and that s just on trump s first day back. democrats are not just making statements of faith and the legal institutions, they have taken reelections to preserve those institutions and their independence. no better example of this is the prosecution of one hunter biden. remember how this started? back in 2018 under david weiss, the u.s. attorney the trump- appointed in delaware, the fbi probed hunter biden and there were subpoenas but no charges. remember, trump grew angry at that, quote, was justice department had not publicized the investigation into his opponent s son during the 2020 election. after trump lost that election, republicans insisted president biden would obstruct justice to keep his son free and they called for a special counsel to investigate hunter biden. when the new president comes in, it s his right to replace any u.s. attorney who wants in the usually do. been replaced donald trump s appointees at doj except for two. john durham who bill barr tasked with investigating the rusher probe, trump special. and david weiss who was investigating his own son. that is because the new president, at the pains of a possible criminal conviction of his surviving son in recovery wanted no appearance of impropriety or of fearon s. merrick garland went a step forward. and he appointed david weiss as special counsel to make sure his work on the hunter biden case was independent. that was a move that republicans opposed? the republicans in the house judiciary, david weiss can t be trusted. it s a new way to whitewash the biden family s corruption. after all of that and a plea deal that was worked out with hunter biden but ultimately rejected by the courts, he ended up charging the president s son for an weapons are rarely prosecuted that even trey gaudi, the far right ex- congressman and former prosecutor could scarcely believe. i did gun prosecutions for six years. i went after convicted felons. i went after people who were fugitives from justice. i went after lots of different people who were prohibited from possessing a firearm. i will bet you they were not 10 cases prosecuted nationwide of addicts or unlawful drug users who possess firearms relied on applications. i bet there were not a dozen. it makes you wonder of all the cases you could be pursuing in delaware, why are you pursuing this one? all of this facilitated by democrats in the white house and the department of justice and capitol hill, all to try to restore faith and equal justice under the law and the norms of the constitution. trump flagrantly violated the norms at every turn. stewing we could not interfere further. publicly calling for prosecutions. you may have forgotten this nugget that months into his presidency trump was calling federal prosecutors and cultivating relationships with them including the was attorney for the southern district beat barrera, obama holdover who was overseeing investigation into stock trades made by trump s health secretary tom price. he said those calls made him uncomfortable and he was fired as u.s. attorney less than a day after he finally refused to take a call from trump. people inside the administration would later tell propublica, trump s personal attorney bragged about getting bharara fired reportedly telling trump this guys going to get you. the former u.s. attorney for the southern district of new york joins me now. an interesting study in contrast over the last few weeks. indeed. what strikes you about the reaction today? when you think of the biden family and how joe biden in particular thinks of his job, and his family, upon a conviction before the conviction, the investigation and arrest and indictment of his son given what his family is been through, you would think every parental, a fatherly instinct would ve been to protect him. if you are a father, you love your children more than you love yourself. you need to protect them from harm and you try to protect them from bad consequences. the biden family has suffered bad things as a family and yet there s some things more important than that when you are commander-in-chief and the president of the country. one of those things is no one is above the law and the rule of law matters. this that you have been pointing out, joe biden had absolute authority, literal authority. no authority over alvin bragg and did not direct the prosecution of trump. it s his justice department and he had authority to direct people not to prosecute his son. he could ve fired special counsel and directed them not be appointed in the first place. he could ve pardon has some preemptively. he could still pardon him but he said he will not do that. all of that conduct given it is his son, it s kind of think how unbelievable that is. in 1 million years if the shoe were on the other foot and donald trump was facing the prospect of his son being prosecuted by me if i had been held over, a biden holdover or obama holdover prosecution, not in 1 million years with that have happened. some of the people on the right who support donald trump are trying to cast this as some clever ops program by which this actually proves it to hash i will say it s outlandish to announce don jr. getting in trouble with guns or drugs. stephen miller said it s a misdirection and easy effort doj to sell to appliance media that s too willing to be due. it s about protecting joe biden and only joe biden. no matter what happens, the corrupt rigged system is steeper than you realize. if every possible outcome, permutation is arguably a point in your favor, maybe your position is terrible. i used a different word than terrible. i don t even think he was required even by probity to keep david weiss on in delaware. honestly. when i say bend over backwards, it would ve been perfectly reasonable bend over backwards above and beyond. and it would not be reasonable to say wink wink, nudge nudge. if you say, do your thing. he didn t have to do with. other features important to point out and you mentioned some of them in the intro. the jury verdict came out and they didn t dox the jury or take the judge. he didn t say it s a travesty of justice or a witch-hunt. he said what i used to say when i was attorney and from time to time even though with the you win some and lose some. we respect the jury. opposite of what trump did. one of the most striking things is after the trump verdict and i remember judge kaplan in the federal civil trial with e. jean carroll told the jurors, you can talk to the press, i advise you not to. and they did not. in alvin bragg s case they did not talk to the press. they would expose himself to harassment a possibly threats and harassment. i m a reporter and i like it. what a contrast. it s a stark contrast. i think it goes to show and when joe biden and his supporters talk about the rule of law, they mean it. you can disagree with his policies. talk about the border and other things that are not in my daily work but on the question of whether or not the rule of law is to be enforced in fear or favor to be given to anyone including the son of a sitting president of the united states, the republicans are full of it on the trump side and biden is not. walk the walk. final question, independence and the department of justice. we have a post-nixon order. one of the things about nixon, a level of regulation, norms, and statures was the department of justice can t just be a tool in the hands of the executive to pursue vendetta. to prosecute and punish enemies. to protect friends. the trump vision is that. explicitly that. russ vought, they really think we are going to come in ski and it will be day one open investigation and that person and prosecute them. that which they accused everyone as of doing, they are saying, there is great irony, one of the cases pending against donald trump, the mar-a- lago case in florida, donald trump s team is made a number of motions to dismiss the indictment. one is vindictive prosecution. there is no evidence of that. no evidence that joe biden or anyone else directed that prosecution and indictment. by saying the things they re saying now that you are pointing out, donald trump ironically laying the foundation for a vindictive persecution motion to dismiss on the part of all the current people who donald trump will be going after because he s announcing his plans before election. all the statements in the plans, project 2025 and everything is will be chapter and verse in the briefs asking for the dismissal of those indictments. that s a great point. preet bharara, thank you. coming up congressman alexandria ocasio-cortez and jamie raskin on the scandals rocking the maga supreme court. donald trump s rude awakening from the criminal justice system. l justice system. her uncle s unhappy. i m sensing an underlying issue. it s t-mobile. it started when we tried to get him under a new plan. but they they unexpectedly unraveled their “price lock” guarantee. which has made him, a bit. unruly. you called yourself the “un-carrier”. you sing about “price lock” on those commercials. “the price lock, the price lock.” so, if you could change the price, change the name! it s not a lock, i know a lock. so how can we undo the damage? we could all unsubscribe and switch to xfinity. their connection is unreal. and we could all un-experience this whole session. okay, that s uncalled for. donald trump has been convicted of 34 felonies and now, americans, the ones who don t know at least getting a crash course the way life changes when you become a felon. since his conviction, trump is expected to have his gun license revoked under federal law. convicted felons are prohibited from possessing a gun. that was part of the issue when the hunter trial. it s unclear what it means for guns he has in his possession a. he told the probation officer he has a gun in florida. he could lose his liquor licenses first three new jersey golf clubs. new jersey prohibits any person who is been convicted of a crime of moral turpitude from having a liquor license. have you ever been convicted of a crime is often on job applications. a subject of reform campaigns to ban the box as a way to help former convicts get jobs and reenter society. that question about criminal convictions is part of the vetting for vice presidential pick where it seems only one member of the ticket gets to be a felon. the vast for a number of things. a number of people have been asked to submit this and that. like taxes? i don t know everything. criminal background? have you convicted a crime. charles coleman and civil rights defense attorney. a senior political reporter at rolling stones who has covered trump world. trump hoped would save him from conviction. they join me. it s interesting to watch folks who don t know this to watch the various implications of being convicted of a felony and the different regulations and things you cannot do. in some states it s voting, liquor licenses, and the like. speaking as a person of color and a former prosecutor, i am unmoved by these newfound epiphanies that are occurring on the right with respect to the reality of life in america if you are a convicted felon. one thing i find to be particularly interesting is how the right is scrambling to rearrange the narrative of what it is to be a felon. you are talking about the party that has planted its flag on the notion of law and order in america now having to walk out and say it s politically advantageous for our candidate to have 34 convictions on his record. this is a narrative they are not going to be able to square but it s funny to watch them try. he had invited on stage in the box, two folks broad conspiracy of folks like moving heavy drugs and violent crime. very serious stuff and has them on the state. this is our thing now. you were talking whether someone is an associate of felons. that is donald trump s jam. the list is very long. shockingly long, especially for someone who held the highest office in the country. i think it is a psych job. they re trying to say it s good we are felons. it s amazing how the tough on crime falls by the wayside when it s the racist game show host. donald trump and his minions love to talk to in and day out but two tiered system of justice. he is correct that one does exist in the country but he is at this tier and everybody is below. there s so many things he has been doing lately that no other defendant in a criminal trial could get away with. including the stuff he said about the judge. behind the scenes and in the open, and his maga brain trust prepared to exploit parts of the u.s. criminal code, as we have reported, to go after the alvin bragg sand letitia james and jack smith if he returns to power. some of this is cooked up behind the scenes in policy papers but so much is done in the open. you also have got them get alvin bragg before a committee. he is going to testify at the gop led judiciary committee. one question i have about this is, does any of this matter in the process that trump is going through? no, it does not. ramose, the probation officer? it s all rigged? does that matter from what sentencing? his public rhetoric absolutely i thought you were referring to alvin bragg. with respect to the things that donald trump is parroting and continues to parrot in the public dialogue around his case, that matters. one of the things a probation officer will take into account is what degree of understanding and remorse do you have? i screwed up. i am sorry. when you are in every opportunity in front of a microphone saying what a political prosecution this was. you have been reported on this that house republican leaders are gauging support for legislation that would like current and former president move a state case to federal court. have you heard any of that? oh, yeah. we reported at the end of last month that trump had been calling around to different conservative allies including republican lawmakers on capitol hill to lobby them when i m back in office, wouldn t it be great if you passed legislation ready for me to send that can have former and current president move their cases to federal court? again, i think they re getting high on their supply. i feel like that is a bad bill to vote for. for a front-line republican member. if you are a maga lawmaker, there is a cute appeal to it. it s not only moderate republicans saying maybe we should not do this. i have spoken to extremely maga attorneys close to donald trump with told me, maybe we shouldn t go down this run. we want to use state ag s and district attorneys to go after joe biden or hillary clinton. the principle applying equal he would hang them up. there is back and forth about the gun situation. i m sure you have encountered this. folks have guns. what does the law say about whether he can keep the gun in florida, new york crime. he will probably need to turn the gun in in florida. he will have a grace period or that s allowed. technically, he might be in violation of the law upon the notice of conviction, he will probably allowed some leeway but it would not surprise me if he has to turn it in. hunter biden conviction today was about he lied on a form because you cannot in terms of taking drugs and own a gun. violation of federal law and lied on the forms and of the ex- president holding a gun. having been convicted of a felony. it s a remarkable set of circumstances. thank you both. samuel alito s wife has even more thoughts about flags. aoc and jamie raskin on the supreme court s legitimacy crisis. itimacy crisis. hi, i m janice and i lost 172 pounds on golo. a friend told me that i was the only one holding me back from being as beautiful on the outside as i am on the inside. once i saw golo was working i felt this rush. golo really works. donald trump wins in november his plans including as the washington post reports a plot to convert federal civil service into an authoritarian tool to report friends and punish enemies. the scope of his plan his desire to weaponize the government against perceived foes. one of the most striking example was a trump department of justice lengthy battle to block the merger between at&t and time warner on antitrust grant. there was always a suspicion which is been all but confirmed that trump was trying to block the merger because he did not like time warner s news network cnn. antitrust and trump s hands was another tool of government authority that could be used to corrupt ends. in the latest episode of my podcast series why is this happening with pot 2024 those steaks? i talked with timothy who is the architect of president biden s antitrust policy. we talked about the respective records of donald trump and joe biden as president when it comes to antitrust action. there were indications, genuine bits of evidence, and a widespread perception amongst i think fortune 500 corporate elite that this was essentially, if you are with trump, if you were his friend you could get the merger approved and it you were his enemy you would have a problem. this became this powerful almost unilateral lover for trump to wield against people he did not like and the most notorious case being, and i think it was somewhat surprising, when the doj announced it would block a proposed at&t time warner merger. there is some evidence to suggest that at least partly it was born of the animus trump hat of cnn s coverage of him. that is pretty bad. i think it s a thing where trump didn t think there was a problem with it. no. i think he thought it was within his rights to order the breakup of a company he did not like. his white house counsel sort of restrained were slightly dead and that. there is so much circumstantial evidence that the white house and the presidency were involved in antitrust decisions that it s hard to deny it. you can find the full conversation i had with him who is a fascinating guy and an amazing record in this area by going to why is this happening? the stakes by scanning the qr code on your screen. you can listen to it wherever you get your podcast. ur podcas flight. cirkul is the energy that gets you to the next level. cirkul is what you hope for when life tosses lemons your way. cirkul, available at walmart and drinkcirkul.com. i must admit i was skeptical when supreme court justice samuel alito blamed his wife for that upside down american flag flying at their home after january 6. a symbol adopted by trump supporters who believed the 2020 election was stolen. it seemed like a convenient explanation but it looks like justice alito was telling the truth when he said infamously, quote, my wife is fond of flying flags. i am not. listen to her in a recent conversation secretly recorded and released by activist lauren windsor. you know what i want? i want a sacred heart of jesus flag because i have to look across the lagoon at the pride flag for the next month. and he s like, please don t put up a flag. i said i won t do it because i am deferring to you. but when you re free of this nonsense, putting it up and i m going to send a message every day, maybe every week. i made a flag in my head. this is how we satisfy myself. i made a flag. it s white and yellow and orange flames around it and in the middle is this word. in italian that means shame. shame. the opposite of pride? they have not responded to an nbc news request for comment but none of what she said changes the facts that justice alito allowed the flag to fly over so molly sits in the highest court on the land hearing cases related to the insurrection in january 6 and he sits on the court along with his buddy clarence thomas his wife was interviewed by the january 6 committee better tax with trump s chief of staff. both justice thomas and alito refused to root recuse himself despite the obvious appearance. we are faced with an urgent question. what can be done about us out of control court? democrats in the house oversight committee held a roundtable on the ethical crisis in the supreme court. one of the expert legal witnesses was my wife. leading the panel was jamie raskin, ranking member the oversight committee and new york congresswomen alexandria ocasio-cortez, the vice ranking member and they post join me now. good to have you on. thank you for having us. i will start with you about what the agenda was today to convene this. you cannot call hearings herself as a ranking member and not the chair. what were you trying to do today? the oversight democrats wanted to respond to the national clamor over this crisis of legitimacy at the supreme court. we analyzed the ethics crisis and we analyze the political crisis around confirmations that got us into this and the blockade of confirmations of people like merrick garland who was nominated by president obama that we began to talk about what things could be done both in the specific case of justices alito and thomas and about the ethical collapse at the supreme court. the highest court in the land with the lowest ethical standards. the only governmental officials in the land who are not governed by a binding ethics code. there is no process by which we can hold them accountable. it violates the essential principle that james madison identified as the heart of our justice system which is no man can be a judge in his own cause. we began to explore different avenues of holding them accountable. congresswoman, you said something toward the end saying it cannot be the case, a constitutional matter as an almost intuitive common sense matter that they are not subject to any checks. we have three coequal branches. checks and balances between them three branches in the position alito said in an interview that congress has no ability to regulate us whatsoever. what should congress be doing? what are you brainstorming? what s the conversation about what those checks can be? of course, justice alito s position is laughable. this idea that he can be and the court should be accountable to nobody and the only person that should be accountable is are themselves. this scouts promise sort of set up for how we should be having ethics standards for the highest and most consequential court in the land. it s completely unacceptable and not only unacceptable, but to have one of our coequal branches be completely unaccountable to the others is paving the path to authoritarianism, tyranny, the abuse of power in the united states. it s structurally, completely unsustainable. it s not a question of if congress has jurisdiction and power over the supreme court. it is what power are we going to exercise in order to reign in a fundamentally unaccountable and rogue court? one of the beautiful things about the roundtable today is we were able to call in one of our senate colleagues, senator white house, who has been pursuing extensive investigations into the dark money networks that has been exerting influence over the court and we raised and discussed a varying degrees of measures from term limits to actual binding ethics standard and congressman raskin i myself will be introducing a forthcoming legislation to even have the supreme court be subject to the same $50 gift rule that he and i are subject to is everyone else is, members of congress. that is a great point. i was talking to my wife kate shaw who gave testimony today before your hearing. she pointed out to me that if i m not mistaken, things like, you can get a book deal as a supreme court justice but you could not be a partner of wilmer hail. that s something congress passed a statute to say what you could or could not do. you would be nuts to be a supreme court justice and have a side gig as a lawyer. presumably, you can change data congress can pass statutes that says this is not allowed. congress has a ban on outside employment and as aoc was saying, we have a $50 gift ban. none of us goes near doing that. you don t do $500,000 vacations? that s a comical thing. members of congress don t even understand that. what circumstances would a supreme court justice accept millions of dollars in foreign travel prepaid tuition for very family members or recreational vehicle, motor stagecoach. it s outlandish to contemplate. that s a general level of funds for people over here. the normal business as usual at the supreme court that they are collecting millions of dollars and hundreds of thousands of dollars from the so-called friends. we need to clean that up. we said, we will start was something simple that the country can understand immediately. we want a $50 gift ban for u.s. supreme court justices. they make $300,000 a year. pay for your own lunch and you re on vacation. that does seem quite clear congresswoman and has the advantage, there s issues to deal with. in some ways, the only way to legislate for congress to act as outlaying broad principles that are broadly applicable. absolutely. as all of us as public servants of federal public servants whether it s both chambers of congress, the white house, many of us are subject to the same if not extremely similar and uniform code of ethics. the fact that the supreme court which is already unelected, at least for those of us who run for office, we have to re-run for office every two years in the house. for an unelected body of nine people appointed for life do not have any sort of binding, strict ethics code to which they cannot only be held accountable but which can be enforced, is actually ludicrous. it s almost unbelievable that we are sitting here in the year 20 24/200 years after the establishment of this country, and we have not addressed this issue. it is something that s long past doing and it s common sense. one thing we addressed is how the private corruption of the justices mirrors the public correction corruption of. it has been dismantling civil rights law, civil liberties, women s right to choose an abortion, labor law, consumer law, you name it. as they grow more removed from the experiences of the way the rest of us live, the more they are willing to demolish the protections the rest of us need to. there s a bunch of things to happened outside of the purview of this question, the court has to deal with equal justice under law and i wonder if you would stick around to talk about that. love to. love to. are you still struggling with your bra? it s time for you to try knix. makers of the world s comfiest wireless bras. for revolutionary support without underwires, and sizes up to a g-cup, find your new favorite bra today at knix.com craig here pays too much for verizon wireless. so he sublet half his real estate office. and sizes up to a g-cup, [ bird squawks loudly ] to a pet shop. meg s moving company uses t-mobile. so she scaled down her fleet to save money. and don s paying so much for at&t, he s been waiting to update his equipment! there s a smarter way to save. comcast business mobile. you could save up to 70% on your wireless bill. so you don t have to compromise. powering smarter savings. powering possibilities. still with me congressman jamie raskin and congresswoman alexandria ocasio-cortez, the ranking and vice ranking members of the house oversight committee. today, the president s son was convicted on counts he was charged with. i went to read the president s statement and get your reaction. he said i will accept the outcome of this case and will continue to respect the judicial process. jill and i will always be there for hunter and the rest of our family with our love and support. nothing will change that. what did you think of that? i mean, it was very residential and he showed in his statement love for his son and love for his country including the rule of law. the different reactions between republican colleagues and democratic colleagues with the trump verdict in the hunter biden verdict, it s astounding. nobody on our side said the fix was in. nobody said it was a travesty. nobody said that justice system needs to be turned upside down. everybody accepted it. hunter biden like donald trump had the right of counsel which he exercised. he had the presumption of innocence and had the right to take the stand but chose not to do. trump chose not to do. they had unanimous jury verdicts finding they were guilty on all counts. i am saying about that what i said about trump s burdick which is they have a right to appeal and they can do that under due process. thank gut we ve got that in america and we will stand by the rule of law and the system of justice for the same reason we are fighting for a supreme court that restores its integrity and reputation. we need to have that kind of confidence not just at the trial level, federal court or state court, we need it all the way up. those supreme court justices are a runaway body at this point. speaking of state court in new york, congresswoman you represent part of new york. there was insults and vitriol that has been directed at alvin bragg from donald trump down in the people s carrying water for him. that has escalated. he is being called for the house republicans before i think the judiciary committee and be grilled by house republicans have rallied behind trump since his conviction. gop lawmakers are perpetuated the false narrative that president biden ordered his prosecution. what do you think about the fact that they are escalating to the point where they will haul alvin bragg before congress? what we are seeing here unfold is an out right abuse of power in the politicization, the seats of power these republicans hold to intimidate the courts and exact political revenge. we have to look at this from a basic jurisdictional point of view. alvin bragg is not even dad it s not even a federal case. we are looking at a state court. we are looking at municipal and state courts. we have republicans who are trying to haul them in, on what grounds exactly? it s not federal court. they do not have jurisdiction over it. it is truly an attempt at public targeting. we see they do this. it s in the model of donald trump and the model of invoking and trying to incite as much anger and intimidation in order for them to get the outcomes they want. and they are eager to be servile sycophants of donald trump that their political judgment is up. that s not where the public is and they understand what the hunter biden verdict in the donald trump verdict the rule of law is working and they are intervening as you say in a state case in order to placate donald trump. precisely. what we are also seeing is the stark contrast between joe biden and donald trump. president biden we have yes a loving father who was there to be supportive of his son but also a president who respects the rule of law and willing to accept the outcomes of a case even if the outcome is not in favor with his family or his personal outcomes. you have donald trump who takes and weaponize is the seats of government, the seats of power, and embarks on a campaign of political intimidation in order to secure outcomes that personally benefit him. that at the core is part of the stakes of our democracy that are before us today. once rule of law goes out the window, it s not something that is easy to get back. it s very much a part of the decision we have to make in the next few months. thank you for all your time tonight. that s all in on this tuesday night . night . tuesday night. good evening, alex. we have some new exclusive audio from the supreme court historical society that lauren windsor has given us and
you have donald trump who takes and weaponize is the seats of government, the seats of power, and embarks on a campaign of political intimidation in order to secure outcomes that personally benefit him. that at the core is part of the stakes of our democracy that are before us today. once rule of law goes out the window, it s not something that is easy to get back. it s very much a part of the decision we have to make in the next few months. thank you for all your time tonight. that s all in on this tuesday night . night . tuesday night. good evening, alex. we have some new exclusive audio from the supreme court historical society that lauren windsor has given us and we ll be playing that in the hour so stay tuned. will. like i said exclusive never before heard audio recordings of justice samuel alito speaking to an undercover progressive activist. that s what we have tonight. that is in addition to the bombshell reportings that were released poyesterday, and you l definitely want to hear these recordings when we play them. if you ve been wondering how those secret tapes were made in the very first place, how activists and judges on the highest court in this land, how they camehi to mingle behind closed doors, well, the answer to that begins almost ten years ago to this day, when the supreme court handed down a major decision. supporters of the hobby lobby cheered today s victory. the oklahoma family that owns the chain of 500 craft stores claimed that providing insurance coverage for some forms of contraceptives under obamacare would be the equivalent of paying for abortion. the court called the ruling startling. the hobby lobby decision. the majority opinion was written by justice amsl alito, and it was one of the first signs that conservatives on this court were willing to go after reproductive freedoms no matter the consequence. now, in the wake of the dobbs decision ten years later hobby lobby seems like the canary in the coal mine in more ways than one. in novemberys 2022 the new yor times offered key reporting about how the hobby lobby decision came to be. for years before the court heard the case, conservative christians have been engaged in a campaign called operation higher court. that operation was to personally court and influence the supreme court sth conservative justice. the effort was spearheaded by a man named reverend robert shank, who woulder recruit christian couples, who he called stealth missionaries, to gain access to theto judges and to impress upo themes the importance of conservative christian values. here s how the new york times described one of their strategies. reverend schenk gave his stealth missionary close instruction. the justice were more likely to let their guard down at the supreme court historical society s annual dinners because they were sure they d be properly vetted. see a justice, boldly approach, he told the couples. if given the opportunity bear witness to biblical truth but don t push it, he said. your presence alone at had historical society h events telegraphs a very important signal to the justices christians are concerned about the court and the issues that come before it. that strategy appears to have paid off. according to the times reporting some of schenk s stt missionaries were able to build enough of a relationship with justice alito and his wife, marketa anne, that they obtainea advanced notice of the court s hobby lobby decision before the camebb out. that breach, that unprecedented breach foreshadowed the leaked dobbs decision striking down roe eight yearswn later. and that specific strategy of using the supreme court s annual society historic dinners as a way tost gain access to supreme court justices, well, it turns out that, too, is velerant again just this week. it s a yearly event where wealthy donors give money to a non-profit dedicated to preserving the court s history, and in ouexchange for their mon, those donors get to rub shoulders with some of the justice and their spouses. as it turns out, conservatives weren t the only ones in on this tidy little arrangement. last week progressive activist lauren winder who happens to be a member of the historic society bought a ticket for the event. when she got in, she pretended to be a conservative donor, attending the event with her husband. ms. windsor approached some of the supreme court justices and secretly recorded her conversations with them. nbc news has not heard the full tape of what was recorded so we cannot say for full certain if edits were made if any were actually made. tonight we have some brand new audio from that event to play for you. and when you hear these new tapes, you will hear something familiar to what was on the tapes released yesterday. a justice, in this case justice alito, who is aggrieved and frustrated, who is nakedly partisan and totally unconcerned by appearing to be all those things in front of a total stranger. remember what we heard yesterday. as a catholic and as someone who, like, really cherishes my faith, i just don t i don t know that we can negotiate with the left in the way that, like, needs to happen for the polarization to end. i think that it sti a matter of like, winning. i think you re probably right. on one side or the other one side or the other is going to win.oi i don t know. i mean, there can be a way of working, a way of living together peacefully, but difficult, you know, because there are differences on fundamental things that really can t be compromised. they really can t be compromised, so it s not like you re going tomi split the difference. and that s what i m saying. it s just, i think that the solution really is, like, winning the moral argument. like people in the country who believe in god have got to keep fighting for that to return our country tot a place of godline. i agree with you. i agree with you. remember at this closed door cocktail party ms. winder was also able to get justice alito s wife, martha anne, to justify flying the two flags in front of their homes. these recordings this week would seem to suggest mrs. alito has no shame about what she be been doing here, in fact quite the opposite. she made clear these flags she flieshe are explicitly her formf resistance and response. you know what i want?at i want a sacred heart of jesus flag because i have to look across the lagoon at the pride flag next month. exactly. and he s like oh, please don t put up a flag, and i said i won t do it because i m deferring to you. but when you re free of this nonsense, i m putting it up. i made a flag in my head, this is how i satisfy myself. i made a flag, it s white and it s yellow and orange flames aroundd it, and in the middle the word vergonia. vergonia in italian means shame. just to be clear justice alito hasr publicly stated his wife did not fly these flags to associate herself with the stop the steal movement or any other group, but it seems quite clear from that clip haze wife very much sees this flags as a form of political expression and a response to what she believes are liberal attacks. perhaps most concerning in these recordings, though, is martha-ann alito s five year plan for revenge. there s a five year defamation statute of limitations. i don t know what you mean by them. the media. martha-ann alito says she has a plan to get back at the media by suing for defamation and she thinks she ll have an opportunity to do that in the next five years when she s free of all this nonsense? is she telling all of us here about justice alit opg s retirement plans? and how concerned should we be a supreme court justice s spouse is talking about the american media with open contempt? tonight we have brand new audio from that same event where justice alito himself thinks what he thinks about the fourth estate, the press. the other voice you ll hear on this tape is an associate of lauren windsor s who was also as this event. i justis wanted to ask you w do you think the supreme court is so is being so attacked and being soso targeted by the media? well, i think it s a simple reason. theyle don t like our decisions and they don t like how they anticipate we may decide some cases that areom coming up. that s the beginning and the end of it, and there are there are groupst, that are very well-funded by ideological groups that haveic spearheaded these attacks. that s what it is. like who? propublica. propublica, gets a lot of you know, gets a lot of money. and they have spent a fortune investigating clarence thomas, for example. but they you know, they look for any little thing they can find, and they try to make something out of it. nbc news reached out for comment from both samuel alito and his wife martha-ann alito but we ve not heard back. lauren, thank you for being here. i knowk r you ve had a busy weo far. we re so appreciative of all that you ve said thus far and all that you have toou share wi us tonight. let me first start with the new sound your organization or your colleague has given us. there are two parts of this new this new tape that strike me as concerning. the first is justice samuel alito saying that the media is attacking him because the media doesn t like how they anticipate the court has decided decided cases and may decide upcoming cases. was that a window into what may be coming down the pike in the next two weeks? how did you interpret that? te i mean i definitely interpreted it as being a harbinger for bad thing tuesday come. did you get the sense when he was talking about the media and thenou specifically citing propublica, for example, on their extensive investigative reporting about clarence thomas alito is reading that these stories are very much beingor shared behind closed dos at the supreme court? i mean his media awareness seemed to be relatively high. oh, it s very high. and he already had a sense of grievance when i first spoke with him in 2023, but it was much more pronounced this year in the two conversations that both ali and i had with him. i k we talk about the context here? the fact is you and your colleague both had conversations with the alitos. for those of us who haven t been to the supreme court historical society events, is this what happens at, them? we now have two bombshell reports about conversations, advocacy campaigns happening between attendees andpp justices on the supreme court. it s interesting. i actually read that initial report in the the new york times about reverend schenk, and that s part of what played into my going in the first place, but i didn t read that report and think i should become a member now. it really was incited by the propublica reporting on clarence thomas. andngcl it s interesting that justice alito wants to rail about theha money taken by propublica for investigating, you know, public servants why clarence thomas is not disclosing millions of dollars in gifts from gop donors, and i have no idea what propublica s finances are, but as someone who is an independent journalist, i would imagine that the money that clarence thomas has taken probably rivals the budget of propublica in any given year. yeah, i mean it s such a good point. what did you hear in alito s sort of explanation for that? did you hear it almost seems as if there s certainly no contrition, but there s notce en ant acknowledgement that there was any wrongdoing on the part of clarence thomas in accepting potentially millions of dollars in unspecified gifts from conservativepe donors. i mean, you know, it s not verbatim but it s almost verbatim. making something out of any little thing i don t understand any little thing to be, you know, buying my mother s house or paying for my nephew s tuition or getting a free rv loan. and these are all things that he s accepted from gop donors. so it would be a much different story if this was just about vacations he was taking with harlan crow and his wife and family. most people would write it off as, oh, it was a trip. most people would not consider traveling with friends or associates as being something that s that big of a deal, but that s not actually what we re talkingot about with clarence thomas, is it? no, it s other order of magnitude we ve seen and it s been going on for years. you just a random member of the historical society is able to get even within shoulder rubbing distance of a justice and then grow him into conversation about some of the most incendiary topics of this country, which is the c partisan divide. how did it actually unfold when you were in the room with the justice? so it should be stated that in the guidance for the event thate historical society says you broach topics gnat are before the court, it may be grounds for you to be kicked out. so there was definitely a deliberative process in how do i approach someone in that you know, not only are judges supposed to be really the height of discretion, the height of, you know, judgments, right, this is the highest court in the land. this ishe aou supreme court jus, so i definitely went into this assuming i was not going to get anything newsworthy. in 2023 i did not get anything newsworthy, but i thought, you know, throughout the year that transpired, the media scrutiny on justice alito has intensified so much, and his grievance level is probably so much more peaked that unlike clarence thomas who did not show up to this dinner but has been reported to have shown up to it many times, and he didn t show up in 2023, by the way, that justice alito would probably attend anyway even though he was undergoing this very intense media glare, and sure enough he was there. and i think it was just something that i can t say what was in his mind, so i don t know if in 2023 he had the same level of grievance and, you know, it changed over the coursg of the year. sure. there s a couple options there. you know, did it changeorally was it always there and he just felt more comfortable? was it hard to get him to talk? at the very end of this conversation he says are you a lawyer? i think he s talking toou ali, yourki colleague. i mle not sure if it s you or h, but it s not as if you offered any biographical information other than you had a husband who s in the room. and i wondered how you got that piece of information. did you go up to him and start talking tort him? so the reason why i brought up my husband is that in 2023 i came with a male friend, so the context of it was we had a conversation after dinner in 2023 my male friend was with me, he was not with me in 2024, so when i saw justice alito solo it was one-on-one, it was, hi there, my husband really wants to let you know that we re rooting for you, you know, that you really have all the grit. and the reason why i said you have all the grit if it doesn t stick out tot people, this is because donald trump had tweeted something out about how there should be more justices like samuel alito with the grit that samuel alito has. and so i felt like it was kind of a flag, if you will to alito, that it was a safe space for him. a safe space, yes. i was trying to signal to him very coyly without saying trump because itit goes back to the w to broach a conversation with someone who has the highest level of discretion, you can t talk about partisanis politics. if i had walked up to him and started t talking about joe bid or donald trump, he would have shutdown. so talking about polarization was really a a way into the conversation that wasn t aggressive but also t indicativ of what he s really trying to get at, which is he acting on bias? and ie really do believe that e american peopleo deserve to kn is the supreme court so compromised that we do not really have impartiality, the bedrock of our judicial system. i think hearing it from his mouth that he cannot be impartial,nn that there are this that cannot be compromised. that needs to be fuel to tell us, look, what is it that can be compromised? you brought us into an environment and these tapes are regulatory and coming at a time of crisis for this court. it is we re not done having this conversation. thank you for bringing some of that conversation to our air. we re really appreciative. thanks for spending some time with me tonight, lauren windsor. thank you, alex. coming up this hour we have new details about trump s presentencing meeting with his probationth officer. turns out he is being treated differently, just maybeea not i the way he d like you to believe. but first hunterto biden joined donald trump in becoming a convicted felon facing possible jail time. does that mean the system is now unrigged? we ll get into n the republican response coming up next. get int response coming up next. president biden s son, hunter biden was found guilty today on three federal gun charges. you may think the maga conspiracy about president biden rigging the justice system, maybe you thought that s going to collapse. it did not. today is the first step for delivering accountability for the biden crime family. you ve been saying two tier system of justice, and here is the president s son being convicted. it doesn t. every case is different, and clearly the evidence is overwhelming here. do you think the department of justice is still weaponized against conservatives even though we still see this verdict here today? absolutely. when they tell there are school moms they re domestic terrorists because they don t like what s being taught in their classrooms and others things we can go into it but we can go into it, but we won t. a trump s campaign statement said hunter biden s trial nothing but a distraction of the real crimes of the biden crime family. republican james comer said the work will not be done until the department of justice investigates everyone involved in the biden s corrupt influence peddling schemes. this conviction is apparently a distraction from the real crimes of it biden crime family. is that strategy going to work? today s conviction was awkward. it was awkward for the talk this was all rigged, the biden justice department is rigged only against republicans, but we live in a world in which the reality and the facts have a hard time catching up with the spin. and you can see how deeply invested the republicans are about talking about the biden crime family. so it s not a shock they re going to continue to repeat those talking points over and over again, but i do think the contrast and reaction to the conviction of donald trump and the conviction of hunter biden has been very, very telling here. and, again, it s always difficult to know how it s going to play out. we may see this at the debate. i know the biden folks think this is going to come up at the debate. again, democrats have been making this point and the media have been making the point that, you know, there are a number of democrats who are facing indictments under under the biden justice department, not just the president s own son by a democratic senator, senator menendez, henry quer down in texas. if the system is so rigged, how do they explain that and the answer is they don t feel the need to explain at all, they re just going to go with the spin. when you talk about a reaction this was the statement from the president of the united states after his son is convicted of felonies. as i said last week i am the president but i m also a dad. squill and i love our son and we re so proud of the man he is today. so many families who have had loved ones battle adekz understand the feeling of pride seeing someone you love come out the other side and be so strong and resilient in recovery. as i also said last week i ll respect the outcome of this case and continue to respect the judicial process as hunter continues to appeal. jill and i will always lead our family with our love and support. nothing will change that. that a strong statement, a tough statement for a father to make, and i feel that undercuts whatever the republican argument is here about biden rigging the system among the voters that will actually matter this next election. well, there are three things there. number one, the conviction of hunter biden shows the system is not rigged. it also shows this is the way the rule of law looks. and president biden has also said you know, has said on the record he ll not use his pardon power if to free his son if hunter biden gets a prison sentence. and some people were skeptical about that, but i don t think there s any reason to doubt his word at this point. and again, this creates a really significant difference between the tantrum that donald trump and his supporters have thrown and the acceptance of the rule of law and the decision of a jury that was presented with all this evidence. the point you re making is who is this for right? almost everything republicans say is for the audience of one is for donald trump. this is what the base wants to hear, but that is not the group of voters who will be deciding this election. and i think embedded in biden s statement is a call to empathy, right, for those who have fallen, for people who have addiction and are trying to make it through, you know, a dark, dark period versus trump who is all grievance all the time. and, you know, i think we think we don t know a lot about where this country is headed, but really appealing to people s sense of forgiveness and empathy doesn t seem like a political strategy that has an expiration date. i don t know, am i being too soft here? no. and again, it s a very interesting contrast. if trump s super power and his shamelessness, his refusal to ever take responsibility or apologize, joe biden s super power and his empathy. and again, republicans aren t going to give him any credit for it, but i do think there are a lot of americans who are going to say this a tragic situations. there are questions about the hunter biden judgment and his behavior, but also what you re seeing from joe biden is this is what a father, a father who has lost his other son, how they would react to something like that. and i think there will be a sliver of the electorate, a crucial sliver going to look at that and say we understand that seems human to us, that seems like something we can identify with and admire as opposed to the constant conspiracy theories and the victim card playing and the really vicious attacks on the criminal justice system and the jury system coming from donald trump. yeah, it s a real choice ahead, and this is going to be very, very indicative of who we are as a country. charlie sykes, thank you again for your time, my friend. it s great to see you. thank you. still to come this evening we have some new reporting about what appears to be a coordinated effort to broadcast disinformation about this fall s election on your local newscast. plus, when it comes to trump s criminal conviction, republican need a reality check. we have one. that s next. d a reality check. we have one. that s next. are you still struggling with your bra? it s time for you to try knix. makers of the world s comfiest wireless bras. for revolutionary support without underwires, and sizes up to a g-cup, find your new favorite bra today at knix.com norman, bad news. i never graduated andfrom med school.-cup, what? -but the good news is. xfinity mobile just got even better! now, you can automatically connect to wifi speeds up to a gig on the go. plus, buy one unlimited line and get one free for a year. i gotta get this deal. i know. faster wifi and savings? .i don t want to miss that. that s amazing doc. mobile savings are calling. visit xfinitymobile.com to learn more. doc? i just went through a rigged trial in new york. it s a rigged system, and it s a terrible system, actually. but it s a rigged system. it s all rigged. the whole system is rig. this was a rigged trial by a conflicted judge who was corrupt. rigged, rigged, rigged, rigged, rigged, rigged. that s been donald trump s refrain during his criminal trial in new york. the entire system is rigged against him. and yet the system really seems to be bending in his favor lately as we saw yesterday at his probation hearing. trump s interview lasted less than half an hour, and trump was allowed to attend the meeting over zoom from his mar-a-lago beach club in florida with his lawyer seated by his side. just for perspective here according to a statement released by multiple public defender groups in new york city, public defenders are deprived of joining their clients for these meetings. the options of joining these meetings virtually by zoom is typically not extended to the people we represent either. joining me now is duncan levine. he s now a criminal defense attorney. duncan, thanks for joining me to make sense of this madness here. first the circumstances of this probation interview. they sound relatively easy, maybe even cushy, but donald trump says everything is rigged against him. who s right? this is something that is so routine, it typically takes hours. and to the extent there s been things that have been different for him, they ve only been different in his favor. most defendants have to come there in person. it is a drab office. these things take hours. there are courts probation interviewed that took half an hour. this is the opportunity to ask on sentencing that don t come out in the trial. this is defendant so well vetted, but for most defendants the judge doesn t have a sense who they are as a person, what their family situation is, what their immigration status is. are they using drugs, who are they covorting with? so a lot of people know this about donald trump. you could say, well, half an hour maybe all you need, but the fact is this it is them doing their due diligence. to the extent it s all zoom, the extent it s rigged or different, it s only been in his favor. the only piece of this he likes bringing up is the presence in this case on the d.a. s side of a man named matthew colangelo. they ve used him to be the missing link between joe biden, the puppeteer of the justice department and alvin bragg who sought criminal charges against donald trump. this is how trump talked about michael. colangelo is a radical left from the doj who was put into the state working for litigious james and was then put into the district attorney s office to run the trial against trump. we ll take issue with the put into passive in that statement, but you have gone between the doj and the d.a. s office so you know what it s like i guess to be a plant. first of all, is that a normal thing that happens, and how in line with reality is this argument? yeah, and this is something that s also being ginned up on capitol hill a lot. and in a letter just today the department of justice said this was conspiratorial speculation. this is an attempt to undermine law enforcement and to sow distrust of the public and law enforcement function. first off manhattan d.a. s office and doj work together every single time. there are joint task forces on terrorism, on hate crimes. there are joint task forces that looks banks file of suspicious activity reports, and joint cases such as standard charter and ing and barclays. there are cases every day deconflicted between the department of justice. on the manhattan d.a. s office they don t arrest the same person or step on other s toes. robert, the most famous manhattan d.a. who served for 35 years from 1975 to 2010 prior to becoming elected as the manhattan d.a. was the united states attorney for the southern district of new york. so he was an obama plant. exactly. a stooge for the administration. this is all coming to a head on july 11th when there is the sentencing hearing for trump. and i guess i wonder what your expectation for that is and whether there s anything to be done around the cries of foul play and a rigged system that are inevitably going to come up no matter what trump is sentenced to. it s just such a hard decision for judge merchan, and you wouldn t wish it on your worst enemy. that being said it s a tough decision for him to make. the prosecution is definitely going to be asking for jail time. the it was is going to be asking for a sentence of the conditional discharge thing. there s going to be outcry on both sides no matter what it is. this is something a very difficult decision and i don t know there s any way through the political thicket of it other than to say this is judge who s really been around the block and he s going to be taking this seriously and fairly, and i think you ll see a sentence free of some of those political consideration, and it may be down the middle, but i think both sides will be able to make like a rorschach test, if you will, and they ll be able to argue around it, whatever it is. you re not giving me the inside dope on what you think it would be. i would never put you on the spot for that, duncan. but for all the cry we ve seen thus far it seems it s only going to increase heading up to july 11th. thank you for being here. it s helping us all through this. coming up trump appointee aileen cannon tosses out trump s appointment in the classified documents case, but first some orwellian messaging being broadcast from your local news station. that s next. broadcast from yours station. that s next. oooh! i can t wait for this family getaway! shingles doesn t care. shingles is a painful, blistering rash that can last for weeks. ahhh, there s nothing like a day out with friends. that s nice, but shingles doesn t care! 99% of adults 50 years or older already have the virus that causes shingles inside them, and it can reactivate at any time. a perfect day for a family outing! guess what? shingles doesn t care. but shingrix protects. only shingrix is proven over 90% effective. shingrix is a vaccine used to prevent shingles in adults 50 years and older. shingrix does not protect everyone and is not for those with severe allergic reactions to its ingredients or to a previous dose. an increased risk of guillain-barré syndrome was observed after getting shingrix. fainting can also happen. the most common side effects are pain, redness, and swelling at the injection site, muscle pain, tiredness, headache, shivering, fever, and upset stomach. shingles doesn t care. but shingrix protects. ask your doctor or pharmacist about shingrix today. our greatest responsibility eastern with you communities. mid-michigan communities. we re extremely proud of the quality that cbs 4 news produces. we are concerned about a troubling trend of irresponsible one-sided news stories plaguing our country. do you remember that nightmare fuel from 2018? the media organization sinclair broadcast group, which owns nearly 200 local tv news outlets had dozens of their local anchors across the country all read the same orwellian script about bias in the media. today sinclair broadcast group was caught again with dozens of local anchors again reading the same script. the newsletter s public notice and popular information first brought attention to the copycat newscasts which featured a script you might say has a very clear conservative agenda. the wall street journal calling into question the mental fitness of president joe biden. the wall street journal is out with reporting calling into question the mental fitness of president joe biden. as national correspondent matt galka tells us, the issue could be an election decider. the election could be an election decider. now, the story these dozens of local news outlets ran with was based on a widely panned piece in the wall street journal last week claiming that behind closed doors president biden was showing signs of mental slippage. the only people quoted on the record in that piece to support that recording were republican officials including former speaker of the house kevin mccarthy, who is not at all known for being the most reliable anything. meanwhile, several democrats including senator chris coons have come out publicly to say they gave quotes to the wall street journal for that piece and the paper chose not to include them. coons says he told the journal biden is someone who s sharp, engaged, and leads the conversation. now, aside from the clear partisan edge to all this, recent polling from gallop shows americans have very low trust of national media outlets. just 32% of the country trust the national media outlets, but that is not true when it comes to local news. pew research polling from earlier this year showed that 71% of americans trust their local news outlets, which is what makes what sinclair is doing here so nefarious. maybe your neighbor doesn t trust the wall street journal or cable news, but they must trust the station that gives them the weather, and that is the real issue. that issue could be could be an election decider. be an elr a slow network is no network for business. that s why more choose comcast business. and now, we re introducing ultimate speed for business our fastest plans yet. we re up to 12 times faster than verizon, at&t, and t-mobile. and existing customers could even get up to triple the speeds. at no additional cost. it s ultimate speed for ultimate business. don t miss out on our fastest speed plans yet! switch to comcast business and get started for $49.99 a month. plus, ask how to get up to an $800 prepaid card. call today! in an order that otherwise denied yet another attempt by the defense the end the prosecution of donald trump by the handling over his classified documents, judge aileen cannon has given mr. trump a partial win. judge cannon agreed to strike one incident from special counsel jack smith s indictment. the paragraph describing after he left the presidency trump allegedly showed a classified map of a foreign country to the representative of a political action committee while saying that an ongoing military operation in that country was not going well. trump allegedly admitted at the time he shouldn t be showing the map to someone without security clearance and told the person not to-look too closely at it. while the incident illustrates how allegedly cav clear trump was with classified information, prosecutors never charged trump with crimes involving sharing classified information, and now the judge has struck it from the indictment. joining me now is bradley moss, a national security attorney who routine lee represents federal officials and members of the military in matters pertaining to classified documents. bradley, how big of a deal is it for prosecutors that this map incident has been struck from the indictment? it s certainly not a critical factor. all this means is it s not sitting in what is otherwise known as a speaking indictment. it is still information that prosecutors can bring out at trial and almost certainly will litigate to ensure they can bring it out as sort of the evidence of a prior bad act strictly in the context of mr. trump s the intent, his motive, his desire, his willingness to conceal this information, that he knew he had these records, he knew he had classified documents. he knew he wasn t authorized to have them, and he was retaining them at mar-a-lago. this was a very minor victory for mr. trump, otherwise the motion was dismissed i m sorry, denied by judge cannon. the issue, of course, is that it took so long. this could have been resolved weeks ago. it never need today have taken this long. if it s not a significant win for trump is it indicative, though, of a broader tension between the special counsel s office and this judge? because throughout this case, and it seems like it s ratcheted up in recent months, there s maybe not a volley because it seems like it s coming from one side. the judge does not seem happy with jack smith or his team. yes, certainly the tensions continue to boil, and they ve reached the point that in a hearing just a few weeks ago it got to prosecutors were so upset and frustrated with their attempts to try to explain to judge cannon their view on the case law and how certain legal precedents applied, that the judge had to basically counsel them to calm down. none of us where there, i don t know how badly that got out of hand. but it s never a good sign if you re a lawyer if the judge is telling you to calm down. let s be honest where this is going. judge cannon for whatever reason has chosen to take a slow and methodical approach here. she hasn t granted donald trump anything of substance, but because of how she s dragged it out and how the classified portions of in particular are taking forever, this is guaranteed it never see the light of day, will never get to trial before people go to voting booth in november. that seems a guarantee. there s an open question whether we ll see the trial period but that s going to depend on politics. trump filed another motion today. this one says the fbi destroyed exculpatory evidence but not describing what the classified material was in proximity to nonclassified material and trump argued he didn t pack the boxes, he didn t know what was in there. how substantive is this? does it matter? i think it s a delay tactic at best they might get an evidentiary hearing. they want to have an evidentiary hearing to probe into huthis was conducted, how the boxes were organized this way, whether or not there s something to their allegations of bias and improperly storage. on the merits, it s garbage. it has nothing to do with terms of spoilation of evidence or obstruction of evidence, and it doesn t absolve trump of the idea he willfully retained the documents. he knew he had them in 2022 when he turned stuff over to the archives and they told him, hey, there s classified documents in this stuff. he knew he had them over the course of the next year talking to his lawyers and they told him to turn them over. he knew it when the fbi told him we keep finding stuff in the stuff you re turning over. it will in the way judge cannon handles things drag it out just a little bit more. a grand jury indictment came down on june 8, 2023. anyone s guess whether we get to the second anniversary. bradley moss, thank you so much for your time tonight. have a good night. that is our show for this evening. way too early with jonathan lemire is coming up next. this case was about the illegal choices the defendant made while in the throes of addiction, his choice to lie on a government form when he bought a gun and the choice to then possess that gun. no one in this country is above the law. everyone must be accountable for their actions, even
delay tactic. if hope at best they might get an evidencey hearing. how the boxes were organized this way. whether or not there is something of allegations of bias and improper storage. on on the merits, it doesn t absolve trump of the idea that he willfully retained the documents. he knew he had them in 2022. when he turned stuff over to the archives. he is talking with his lawyers they are telling him to turn it over. we keep finding stuff. it will not ultimately change anything. but it will quite possibly the way judge cannon handles things but it will drag things out a little more. we are at the first anniversary of the mar-a-lago case. anyone s guess whether we get to the second anniversary. bradley moss, thank you for your time tonight. have a good night. that is our show. now it is time for the last word with jonathan who is in for lawrence o donnell. good evening. i would love to know if we are going to have a classified documents case but who knows. prepare a sheet cake with the number not on the cake and eat it or not. let s just eat it anyway. have a good show. today, a jury convicted hunter biden, the only surviving son of president joe biden, oh three federal gun felonies. after a little less than three hours of deliberations, 12 jurors many president biden s home state of delaware agreed with prosecutors that hunter biden lied on a mandatory gun purchase form by saying he was not illegally using or addicted to drugs at a time when he was. president joe biden responded with this statement. as i said last week, i m the president. i am also a dad. jill and i love our son. and we are so proud of the man he is today. i will accept the outcome of this case and continue to respect 2 judicial process as hunter considers an appeal. joe and i will also be there for hunter and the rest of our family with our love and support. nothing will ever change that. he didn t attack the verdict. he didn t say it was rigged. no. all the wild and irresponsible reaction to the verdict today came from republicans. some of whom have embraced the conspiracy myth that the justice department charged and convicted hunter biden of these felony to misdirect from other crimes. bigly crimes. unnamed. unspecified. imagined biden crimes that are much bigger and badder than all the actual crimes donald trump is charged with. steven miller posted the hunter biden verdict was proof that doj is joe s election protection racket. the trump campaign called it a distraction from the real crimes. one right wing commenter thinks it was cover for the trump prosecution? you go after donald trump and hunter biden. okay. in republican s defense, you might go a little crazy, too, if you had to defend backing a known fraudster, sexual abuser and now 34-time convicted felon for president. in a new op ed, merrick garland denounced the republican attacks on the justice department. quote, they are baseless, personal, and dangerous. today the doj sent a let tore jim jordan to confirm there were no emails between any justice department officials and the office of manhattan district attorney alvin bragg. quote, the department has no control over the district attorney. the committee knows this. despite that, district attorney bragg has agreed to testify before the house on july 12th the day after donald trump s sentencing. a spokesperson for the manhattan da s office said it undermines the rule of law to spread dangerous misinformation following the full count felony conviction in people v trump. nonetheless, we respect our government institutions and plan to appear voluntarily before the subcommittee after sentencing. joining us now, neil, argued more than 50 cases before the supreme court. he is a professor at georgetown law, an msnbc legal analyst and host of the podcast court side. thank you so much for being here. so now, some republicans are pushing the hunter biden jury verdict as proof of a doj conspiracy. this is some kerry matheson red yarn over a cork board stuff. did you have that on your bingo card? it is almost impossible. the verdict today makes these conservative claims look ridiculous. for years these conservatives have been crowing about a politicized justice department. what happened today, the justice department convicted the president s own son. his only living son. imagine what that would take. the president gave you that job. you have the power as every attorney general does to end the prosecution. with the stroke of a pen. and you didn t do it. that s what the rule of law is all about. and, similarly, the constitution gives the president the power to pull the plug on any prosecution. that is part of article two. so biden, president biden could have absolutely ended this prosecution once and for all. he didn t do it. that s the test about someone who has convictions in the system. and when it is over, you didn t hear joe biden wining about a trump judge though the judge here is literally a trump judge appointed by trump. rather you heard the president saying he would accept the outcome of the case. i know no other word for that but presidential. he even went so far as to say he wouldn t pardon his son. we saw this with judge merchan and it is merrick garland s way too, trying to lower the temperature in the wake of these overthe top trump republican attacks. do you think he is responding proportionally to the trumpian all-out war on our justice system? i was really glad to see the attorney general s op ed today in the washington post saying look, what the department does is justify the rule of law and we do so fairly and impartially. that s the justice department that i saw jonathan when i worked there in two different administrations. and it is like why people respect this country so much. this morning i had the privilege of speaking at a naturalization ceremony for 150 new citizens from 54 countries and what do they respect about america? they respect exactly a verdict like this. even the president s own son could be convicted by the president s justice department and the president s prosecution arm because this president respects the constitution and respects the rule of law. unlike some of these republicans who spit on this every chance they can. what do you expect to see when mat hat tan da alvin bragg testifies? i expect to see a big nothing. all sorts of innuendo related to how joe biden helped orchestrate the felony conviction of his own son though it was overseen by a trump appointed special council. and adjudicated by a trump judge. i m sure we will hear cray-cray like that. the justice department said today there was no communication between the prosecutor who is the centerpiece of these crazy conspiracy theories and the justice department. zero. none. so have the hearing by all means. that is part of congress responsibilities. but it would be nice to have some facts in these hearings. be nice to have some. but i m not expecting any. thank you for coming to the last word. thank you. so, here is how you know trump knows it could get much worse for him. he is a dumb son of a [bleep] convicted felon trump indicted for his unsuccessful attempt to overturn the 2020 election praised the january 6th rioters who attacked the capitol calling them warriors. those j6 warriors were warriors but they were victims of what happened. all they were doing is protesting a rigged election. that s what they were doing. while trump was ranting in las vegas sunday, president biden was returning from france after commemorating the 80th anniversary of d-day. the biden campaign has released this ad slamming former president trump for being a draft dodger. a good commander-in-chief is somebody who gives a [bleep]. i served in the united states marine corp. i m ed mccabe. i served from the 1990s until 2014. i m matthew mclaughlin. it is the first time i m shaking the hands of a president of the united states. it was pretty impactful to me to see an individual that supports troops not just on the battlefield but when we return home. i see a man in joe biden who accepts accountability and responsibility and when i see his predecessor donald trump, i see a man who is only in this for himself. who criticizes veterans. who doesn t see it important for him to go to the funerals. donald trump has zero accountability in his life. he is a draft dodger. simple as that. yesterday, draft dodger donald trump sat for his first probation hearing as a convicted felon. a mandatory requirement before his sentencing july 11th. meanwhile, president biden held a white house event commemorating juneteenth. a federal holiday he established in 2021 to recognize the emancipation of enslaved african americans after the civil war. in his remarks, president biden reminded the audience why black history is still so important. let s be clear. they are all ghosts trying to take us back. taking away your freedoms, making it harder for black people to vote. closing doors of opportunity. attacking the values of diversity. equity and inclusion. banning books about black experiences. trying to erase and rewrite history. it is not just about the past. it s about our present and our future. it is whether that future is a future all of us, not just for some of us. folks, black history is american history. black history is american history. joining us now, former assistant democratic leader in the house of representatives, congressman james cleiburn. a cochair of the biden harris 2024 campaign. congressman, always great to see you. welcome back to the show. i was at the juneteenth event last night and president biden has touted the inflation reduction act. lowering drug prices. but listen to how roy wood jr. talked about that achievement. we have legislation for cheaper prescription drugs. insulin is down to $35 if you are a senior. i don t know if anybody here has paid for insulin before. but that is like the bottle service of prescription drugs so we appreciate that $35 right there. i love the relatable roy wood jr. used to break it down. it is funny, but telling a policy success story. does the campaign need to do more of that? well thank you very much for having me. absolutely. we have to get this out there. this administration has a record that is unequal even cannot be imagined. by a lot of people who thought about these things as we went into the last election. this administration with this rescue plan has brought young children out of poverty. with this infrastructure bill is put in $65 billion for internet when we had no money for infrastructure in the previous administration. the chipping science act. it is inflation reduction act. all of these things people said could not be done. joe biden did them. and i get a little irritated when i hear people telling me well, he isn t talking loud enough. he didn t show the kind of energy we want. we are about substance. substance. not style. that is what will move this country forward. that is what will leave for our children and grandchildren a country to be proud of. real substance. you can talk loud. you can misrepresent. you can prance around. but, the question is, what are you doing? i used to listen to my dad s sermons and one of the things i learned early, it is their deeds that get them. not their words. if you get caught up on the words, they will pay any attention to the deeds, you might believe in donald trump. but if you are all about deeds, you will be supporting this president. this administration. biden and harris. let s talk about, some more deeds. because today, the biden administration announced that medical debt can no longer be considered in credit scores. president biden has made debt elimination one of his pitches on the campaign. but new polling shows americans are split on student loan forgiveness. three in ten adults approve while four in ten disapprove. how concerned are you about those polling numbers we see on the screen right there? i think it is because people have misrepresented this whole thing about student loan debt elimination. joe biden, if you look at the program, he made it very clear. we are talking about eliminating this compounded interest. and all these things that have accumulated beyond what the original debt was. i have a constituent. not a black constituent. a constituent in north charleston who wrote a letter to the president with a copy to me. his original loan was $60,000. over the years he has paid back nearly $200,000 because of compounded interest. and paying for it for more than 20 years. and still owed money. so when he eliminated that debt, it was on the compounded interest. not the original loan. and people need to look at that. when i hear senator romney says that this was a bad deal, how can it be a bad deal? the principle is paid back a long, long, long time ago. these people are paying compounded interest that has been put out there by people who are making money when the original principle was paid back a long time ago. so that is what is going on here. so nobody is paying anybody s debt. they paid off the debt. the compound interest people are collecting and putting people in the poor house as we say down south. let me get you on one more thing. let s talk comments that entertainment 50-cent made on capitol hill last week. listen to this. i said i m identifying with trump. why do you say that? because they got rico charges. congressman, your reaction, black men are moving to trump because they have rico charges? look. he should have been with me last saturday night at this south carolina naacp freedom fund dinner. 100% support for joe biden. not one single person in there, male or female, for donald trump. should have been with me at greater target memorial ame church on sunday morning. 100% for joe biden. not a single person there. for donald trump. i don t know where 50-cent is hanging out. but i hang out with the naacp. i hang out with the black community. back faith community, and i don t see any support for donald trump. these people are not worried about rico, they are worried about their children s student loan debt. they are worried about the cost of insulin when it comes to their health care. they are worried about affordable housing. they are worried about broad band deployment. that s what they are getting from this president and they are not thinking about whatever it is 50-cent is talking about in rico. it is down in georgia. that is what donald trump violated. and so, we are upset because he is being called to account for violateing the rico statute? come on 50-cent. that is worth a dollar to know better. congressman, always great to see you. thank you for comeing to the last word. thank you very much for having me. all right, 50 cents. coming up, we are 11 days into pride month and there is one person i know who isn t celebrating. justice samuel alito s wife has been caught on tape sharing her exasperation at seeing pride flags from her house. and that s not the only reason we should be worried about what s on those secret recordings. that s next. those secret recordings. that s next. i have moderate to severe crohn s disease. now, there s skyrizi. things are looking up, i ve got symptom relief. control of my crohn s means everything to me. control is everything to me. feel significant symptom relief at 4 weeks with skyrizi, including less abdominal pain and fewer bowel movements. skyrizi is the first il-23 inhibitor that can deliver remission and visibly improve damage of the intestinal lining. and the majority of people experienced long-lasting remission at one year. serious allergic reactions and an increased risk of infections or a lower ability to fight them may occur. tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms, had a vaccine or plan to. liver problems may occur in crohn s disease. now s the time to ask your gastroenterologist how you can take control of your crohn s with skyrizi. control is everything to me. learn how abbvie could help you save. i brought in ensure max protein with 30 grams of protein! those who tried me felt more energy in just two weeks. -ugh. -here, i ll take that. woo hoo! ensure max protein, 30 grams protein, 1 gram sugar, 25 vitamins and minerals. and a new fiber blend with a prebiotic. ( ) it s never a good time for migraine, especially when i m on camera. that s why my go-to is nurtec odt. for the acute treatment of migraine with or without aura and the preventive treatment of episodic migraine in adults. it s the only migraine medication that helps treat & prevent, all in one. don t take if allergic to nurtec odt. allergic reactions can occur, even days after using. most common side effects were nausea, indigestion, and stomach pain. people depend on me. without a migraine, i can be there for them. talk to your doctor about nurtec odt today. my wife is fond of flying flags. that is what supreme court justice samuel alito said when he blamed his wife for flying two different flags at their home associated with the stop the steal movement and carried by rioters at the january 6th insurrection. new secret recordings of his wife martha anne alito are revealing more about what motivates her to fly flags. you know what i want? i want is a sacred heart of jesus flag because i have to look across the lagoon at the pride flag for the next month. and he is like oh, please don t put up a flag. i won t do it because i m deferring to you, but when you are free of this nonsense, i m putting it up and i m going to send them a message every day. maybe every week. i made a flag in my head. this is how i satisfy myself. i made a flag, it is white. and it is yellow and orange flames around it and in the middle is the world vergogna. vergogna in italian means shame. that is the wife of a supreme court justice being openly hostile to a complete stranger about the pride flag. a symbol of freedom and equality for the lgbtq plus community during pride month. people. like me, being proud of who they are makes her mad. it makes her want to send them a message. it makes her want to fly a flag that says shame. this is not a woman who is unclear about the message of the flags that she is flying. and for what it s worth, i don t think anyone would care if they looked across the potomac and saw a jesus flag flying. there are lots of martha annes in america who also harbor this kind of grievance. but this is martha anne alito. she is not just any random person. she is married to a supreme court justice for life. one of the most powerful people in the country who is actively rolling back americans constitutional rights. justice alito authored the majority opinion revoking nearly 50 years of rights for women when the court overturned roe v. wade. and that laid the foundation for another right wing justice with a right wing wife. clarence thomas, to target the lgbtq plus community by saying the supreme court should reconsider two cases that affirm the rights of same sex couples including same sex marriage. martha anne alito longs for the day when 74-year-old justice alito is quote free of all this nonsense. she is thinking about who will replace him on the court. are you? joining me now, kelly robinson, president of the human rights campaign. your reaction to what we heard. shocking but not shocking in the same sense. what she is saying about flags, it is not about flags. it s a dog whistle to maga bullies across the board. what she wants to do is use the flag as a symbol to talk about how they want to push us back into the closet. when i talk about what it represents, tomorrow represents eight years since the pulse mass shooting where 49 members of our community s lives were stolen forever. this kind of violent action and political rhetoric leads to real world outcomes so anyone that is listening to her, anyone that is watching what she says, should be very, very concerned. not only about her words but what it means in terms of the actions of people that are listening to her. uh-huh. this audio, new audio from justice alito tonight. listen. justice alito tonight. listen. kelly, does this sound ominous given the two abortion cases and january 6th cases to be decided? to me it sounds hypocrital. i remember when barack obama wore a tan suit and people acted like it was the end of democracy. and now, we are talking about a whole supreme court justice whose wife is saying things like this who is espousing these belief that s are concerning for someone on the highest court of the land. so i do think that anyone that is listening to the words that are coming out of justice alito s mouth, you should be concerned. but i also know if you are a person of color, if you are an lgbtq plus person, a woman, someone who is nonbinary, we don t have the luxury of putting our fear into a state of analysis. it is more critical than ever that we get out and we vote this november. our lives are quite literally at stake. uh-huh. trump is out there giving comfort to anti-abortion groups promising to defend life. these also sound like rights this ideological supreme court has no interest in protecting. they don t. they have said the quiet part out loud already. we have to remember that when roe v. wade was overturned and justice thomas concurrence, he said out loud, the next the court should revisit lawrence. they should revisit griswold. they asserted our basic rights as lgbtq plus people in this country and our right to contraception so any time they say that these things are not on the table, look at what they are doing. we should be very concerned about what we are seeing and take it as a call to action. at the end of the day, we still live in a democracy. our votes still count. and there is something that we can do right now about how this court has gotten so far disconnected from its actual mission in our democracy. as i mentioned before, i was at the juneteenth event where i met your beautiful wife last night. but that s not the point why i m bringing that up. i want to play something that vice president harris said last night. watch. across our nation, we witnessed a full-on attack on hard fought hard won freedoms and rights. including the freedom of a woman to make decisions about her own body, the freedom to be who you are and love who you love openly and with pride. the freedom from fear of bigotry and hate. the freedom to learn and acknowledge our nation s true and full history. and the freedom that unlocks all others, the freedom the vote. how important is it to stress to voters that the supreme court is on the ballot in november. what is at stake is more samuel alitos or more ketanji brown jackson. exactly. what i saw from kamala harris, that is leadership. at the end of the day when we think about this election coming up, it is not just about two candidates, it is two fundamentally different visions for our country. when you talk to people, a lot of our fears are the same. worried your kids will have a better life than you do. concerns about inflation. making sure schools are good and welcoming and safe. but i want to make sure that whoever we elect that their solutions are about moving us forward and not pulling us back. what the supreme court has shown that they are willing to do from the overturn of roe v. wade to all they have said and done in the last year, they are willing to roll back the rights not only of the last ten years or last 40 years but the last 100. we have got to do something about it for the sake of all of our communities and especially for the sake of our kids. kelly robinson, thank you very much for comeing to the last word. thank you. coming up, it s election night in nevada. a must win state for joe biden and kamala harris and a muster win seat for democrat ifs they hope to hold onto the senate. nevada senator jack see rosen joins us next. rosen joins us next. clogged gutters can cause big problems fast. until now. call 833-leaffilter today for your free gutter inspection. i ve had terrible flooding problems on my porch. now i understand why. right now leaffilter is offering a free inspection, on your schedule. leaffilter is a permanent gutter solution, so you never have to worry about costly damage from clogged gutters again. call us today and schedule your free inspection. to schedule your free inspection, call 833.leaf.filter today or visit leaffilter.com. -cologuard®? 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i can tell you latino voters in nevada, they are the decisive vote. and my team in nevada, so many of them born and raised in nevada, i myself lived here the last 50 years just about. we are in the community all the time. we are listening and we are responding. i sit on the small business and entrepreneurship committee. we talk about all the latino small businesses. so many entrepreneurs. we want to be sure they have all the tools that they need to keep and start their small business and thrive. it is really important. and we talk about education. and our environment. we are connecting with our latino voters. the same issues that matter to everybody else. senator rosen, the late long time nevada senator harry reid built a famous statewide democratic organization in nevada. is the reid machine still in effect in nevada? what that means around nevada state. we work together to make sure we do our field program. we are talking about the issues. we coordinate. being sure we are communicating. working together. nevada families, they really matter. listening to them and delivering for them really matters. we will have the new va hospital. they are searching for their 50- acre site now. it will be a game changer fir the veterans in northern nevada. whether it is seniors, veterans, students, or a tourism economy. we are listening and delivering. senator jackie rosen of nevada. thank you very much for coming to the last word. thank you for having me. coming up, biden is beating trump in a new election forecast and one of the big reasons is biden s strength in the key swing state of wisconsin and particularly, with a group of voters who make up the bulk of the trump base. that s next. the trump base. that s next. yself i was ok with my moderate to severe rheumatoid arthritis symptoms. with my psoriatic arthritis symptoms. but just ok isn t ok. and i was done settling. if you still have symptoms after a tnf blocker like humira or enbrel, rinvoq is different and may help. rinvoq is a once-daily pill that can rapidly relieve joint pain, stiffness, and swelling in ra and psa. relieve fatigue. and stop further joint damage. and in psa, can leave skin clear or almost clear. rinvoq can lower your ability to fight infections, including tb. serious infections and blood clots, some fatal; cancers, including lymphoma and skin; heart attack, stroke, and gi tears occurred. people 50 and older with a heart disease risk factor have an increased risk of death. serious allergic reactions can occur. tell your doctor if you are or may become pregnant. done settling? 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the issues they care about our kitchen table issues that a lot of us talk about. affordable healthcare. women s reproductive rights, voting rights, saving our democracy, good education and childcare. basically kitchen table issues. what do you say back to them? we talked about some of the issues that president biden and harris put forward. the jobs that have been created. money that has come into green county for various rings such as our ymca and county seats in the city of monroe. basic issues like that. we try to point out to people what is being done. on the flipside on the ground, what do you hear from voters about trump if anything? that they really do not want him back in office. it is as simple as that. been, how voters get their information has changed, much more now on social media then with traditional advertising. how has that changed voter outreach? the first thing we have to assume is there is no silver bullet. you may get something on the local news that reaches some voters. some are reading the weekly newspaper that comes in. maybe they pick it up at the grocery store. we have to be everywhere. social media platforms, foreign science, door to door organizing, phone calls and text messages. show up at parades and county fairs, we build a surroundsound environment. we assume just because you said something somewhere does not mean anybody heard it. you have to say it everywhere and over and over. that is what it takes. trump is trying to confuse people. we need to bring people s focus back to what affects them directly. their freedom to make decisions about their own body and living in a democracy. who is fighting for them. trump promising wealthy donors whatever they want. that contrast does resonate for people but you have to go to where the voters are. sandy you have been nodding in agreement. my last question is, if biden were to come to green county and ask your advice on what he should say to voters, what would you tell him? that is a good question. i would guess to just be honest with them on what he plans to do for the voters, listening to them and what their issues are is the most important. being able to address those. if biden could come to green county, they would be ecstatic. we have 90 seconds left, same question been, what would you say team biden needs to work on or watch out for? we love biden coming to the state because he does listen to people. when they hear from him they moved toward him and when they hear from trump they move away. we have 97-99 assembly district covered. anybody that wants to help us organize you can volunteer at the website. biden really digs into what he is delivering. he announced a $3 billion investment by microsoft in a community where trump showed up and promised the sun, moon and stars and never did anything. that contrast really lance. for people that wonder what jobs they will have in 10 years, when biden shows up and does something it clicks. we want him to keep coming and we think we can draw a contrast with trump who talks big and delivers nothing and uses power to exact revenge instead of serving the people. i think it is guaranteed that biden and harris will be back in wisconsin multiple times before election day. thank you both very much for coming to the last word. we will be right back. ht back. that helps treat and prevent, all in one. to those with migraine, i see you. for the acute treatment of migraine with or without aura and the preventive treatment of episodic migraine in adults. don t take if allergic to nurtec odt. allergic reactions can occur, even days after using. most common side effects were nausea, indigestion, and stomach pain. it s time we all shine. talk to a healthcare provider about nurtec odt from pfizer. citi s industry leading global payments solutions help their clients move money around the world seamlessly in over 180 countries. and help a partner like the world food programme as they provide more than food to people in need. together, citi and the world food programme empower families across the globe. i wanna hold you forever hey little bear bear. i m gonna love you forever c mon, bear. you don t.you don t have to worry. be by your side. i ll be there. with my arms wrapped around. craig here pays too much for verizon wireless. so he sublet half his real estate office. 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uncalled for. and on that note, i wish you a very, very good night. from all of our colleagues across the networks of nbc news, thanks for staying up late. i ll see you at the end of tomorrow. exclusive never before heard audio recordings of justice samuel alito speaking to an undercover progressive activist. that s what we have tonight. that is in addition to the bomb shell recordings released yesterday and we will definitely want to hear these recordings when we play them. if you have been wondering how those secret tapes were made in the very first place, how activists and judges on the highest court in this land, that begins almost ten years add to this day when the supreme court handed down a major decision. supporters of the hobby lobby cheered today s victory. the oklahoma family that owns the chain of 500 craft stores claimed providing insurance coverage for some forms of contraceptives under obama care would be the equivalent of paying for abortion. that will allow companies to opt out of any law they judge incompatible with their sincerely held religious beliefs. the hobby lobby decision. the majority opinion was written by justice samuel alito and one of the first signs that conservatives on this court were willing to go after reproductive freedoms no matter the consequence. in the wake of the dobs decision, hobby lobby seems like the canary in the coal mine in more ways than one. november of 2022, the new york times offered key reporting about how the hobby lobby decision came to be. for years, conserve tiff christians had been engaged in a campaign called operation higher court. that operation was to personally court and influence the supreme court s conservative justices. it was spearheaded by a man named reverend robert shank who would recruit christian couples he called stealth missionaries to gain access to the judges and impress upon them the importance of conservative christian values. the justices were more likely to let their guards down at the historical genders. see a justice, boldly approach, he told the couples. if given the opportunity, bear witness to biblical truth, but don t push it. he said. your presence alone at the historical society events telegraphs a very important signal to the justices. christians are concerned about the court and the issues that come before it. that strategy appears to have paid off. some of shank s stealth missionaries were able to build enough of a relationship with justice alito and his wife martha anne they obtained advance notice of the hobby lobby decision before it came out. that breach, that unprecedented breach foreshadowed the leaked dobbs decision striking down roe eight years later and that specific strategy of using the supreme court s annual historical society dinners as a way to gain access to supreme court justices, turns out that, too, is relevant again just this week. the dinner is a yearly event where wealthy donors give money to a non-profit dedicated to supporting the court s history in exchange for their money, the donors get to rub shoulders with the justices and their spouses. as it turns out, conserve tiffs weren t the only ones in on this little arraignment. last week, lauren winsor who happens to be a member of the historical society bought a ticket tothe event. when she got in, she pretended to be a conservative donor. she approached some of the conservative justices and secretly recorded her conversations with them. nbc news has not heard the full tape of what was recorded so we cannot say for certain where edits were made if any were actually made. tonight, we have some brand new never before heard audio from that event to play for you. you will hear something familiar to what was on the tape s release yesterday. justice alito who is aggrieved and frustrated. who is nakedly partisan and totally unconcerned by appearing to be all of those things in front of a total stranger. remember, what we heard yesterday. as a catholic and as someone who really cherishes my faith, i just don t, i don t know that we can negotiate with the left in a way that like needs to happen for the polarization to end. i think that it is a matter of like winning. i think you re probably right. on one side or the other, one side or the other is going to win. i don t know. i mean, there can be a way of working together or living together peacefully. but it is difficult. there are differences on fundamental things that can t really be compromised. they can t really be compromised. so it s not like you re going to split the difference. that s what i m saying. i think the solution really is like winning the moral argument. people in this country who believe in god have got to keep fighting for that to return our country to a place of godliness. well, i agree with you. i agree with you. remember, at this closed door cocktail party, windsor was able to get justice alito s wife to explain her deeply personal motivation for flying two insurrectionist flags in front of the alito homes. that is a story that had just scandalized this court and these recordings this week would seem to suggest mrs. alito has no shame about what she has been doing here. in fact, quite the opposite. after deriding feminazis who have been critical of the scandal engulfing her husband, she made clear these flags are explicitly her form of resistance and response. you know what i want? i want a sacred heart of jesus flag because i have to look across the lagoon at the pride flag for the next month. exactly. and he s like oh, please don t put up a flag. i said i won t do it because i m deferring to you, but when you are free of this nonsense, i m putting it up and i m going to send them the message every day. maybe every week i will change the flags. i made a flag in my head. this is how i satisfy myself. i made a flag. it is white. it is yellow and orange flames around it. and in the middle of is word vergogna. it means shame. just the be clear here, justice alito has publicly stated his wife did not fly the flags to associate herself with the stop the steal movement or any other group but it seems clear his wife very much sees the flags as a form of political expression and a response to what she believes are liberal attacks. it s okay. when they come back to me, i ll get them. i m going to be liberated and i m going to get them. what do you mean by they? there is a five year defamation statute of limitations. i don t know who you mean by they. get them. the media. okay. so, martha anne alito, the wife of a supreme court justice say she has a plan to get back at the media suing for defamation and thinks she will have the opportunity to do that in the next five years when she is free of all this nonsense. is sam alito s wife telling us something about justice alito s retirement plans? how concerned should we be that a supreme court justice s pows is talking about the american media with open contempt? tonight, we have brand new audio from that same event where justice alito himself tells us what he thinks about the fourth estate. the press. the other voice is an associate of lauren windsor s who was also at this event. i just wanted to ask you why do you think the supreme court is being so attacked and being targeted by the media these days? it is a simple reason. they don t like our decisions and they don t how we anticipate we may decide some cases coming up. that s the beginning and the end of it. and there are groups of very well funded by ideological groups that have spearheaded these attacks. that s what it is. gets a lot of money. and they have spent a fortune investigating clarence thomas for example. you know everything he has ever done his entire life. and they ve done some of that with me too. but you know they look for nit little thing they can find and try to make something of it. nbc news reached out for comment from samuel alito and his wife but have not heard back. joining me now is lauren windsor. progressive activist. lauren, thank you for being here. i know you have had a busy week so far. let me start with the new sound your organization, your colleague has given us. there are two parts of this new tape that strike me as concerning. alito says the media has not liked how the court has decided cases and may decide upcoming cases, was that a window into what may be coming down the pike the next two weeks? how did you interpret that? i interpret it as a harbinger of bad things to come. did you get the sense when he was talking about the media and specifically citing propublica and their extensive investigating about clarence thomas. that these stories are very much being shared behind closed doors of the supreme court. his media awareness seemed to be relatively high. oh it s very high. he already had a sense of grievance when i first spoke with him in 2023. but it was much more pronounced this year. two conversations that ali and i had with him. can we talk about the context here? for those of us who have not been to supreme court historical society events, is this what happens at them? we have two bomb shell series of reports about conversations, advocacy campaigns and attendees from the supreme court. i initially read the report in the new york times about reverend shank. that played into my going in the first place. but i didn t read that report and think i should become a member now. it really was incited by the propublica reporting on clarence thomas. justice alito wants to rail about the money taken by propublica for invest good faithing public servants while clarence thomas is not disclosing millions of dollars of gifts from gop donors. i have no idea what propublica s finances are, but as someone who is an independent journalist, i would imagine that the money that clarence thomas has taken probably rivals the budget of propublica in any given year. it is such a good point. what did you hear in alito s explanation for that? did you hear, it seems there is no contrition. but is not even an acknowledgment there was any wrong doing on the part of clarence thomas in accepting potentially millions of dollars in unspecified gifts from conservative donors. i mean, you know, it is not vergogna bay verbatum. i don t consider that paying for tuition or getting a free rv loan. these are all things he has accepted from gop donors. it would be a different story if this was just about vacations he was taking with harlan crow and his wife and family. most people would write it off as oh, it was a trip. most people would not consider traveling with friends or associates as being something that is that big of a deal. but that is not what we are talking about with clarence thomas. it is another order of magnitude and it has been going on years. i guess some part of me is surprised that you not knowing the alitos, you are just a random member of the historical society is able to even get within shoulder rubbing distance of a justice and draw him into conversation about some of the incendiary topics in the country. the partisan divide. how did it unfold when you were in the room with the justice? it should be stated in the guidance for the events, the historical society says if you broach topics that are before the court, it may be grounds for you to be kicked out. so there is aprocess. how do i approach someone with that not only are judges supposed to be really the height of discretion. the height of you know, judgments. right? i definitely went into this assuming i was not going to get anything news worthy. in 2023, i did not get anything news worthy. the scrutiny has intensified so much and his grievance level is much more piqued that unlike clarence thomas who did not show up to this dinner. but has been reported to have shown up to it many times, and he didn t show up in 2023 by the way. that alito would probably attend anyway though he was undergoing this intense media glare. sure enough, he was there. and i think it was, i can t say what was in his mind so i don t know if in 2023, he had the the same level of grievance and it changed over the course of the year. there s a couple of options there. did it change? was it hard to get him to talk? at the very end of this conversation, he says are you a lawyer? it wasn t like you had offered any biographical information other than having a husband who was not in the room. how did you actually get into conversation with him? did you just go up to him and start talking to him? so the reason i brought up my husband was that in 2023, i came with a male friend. so, the context of it was we had a conversation, after dinner in 2023, my male friend was with me. he was not with me in 2024. so when i saw justice alito solo, it was one on one. it was hi there, my husband really wants to let you know we are rooting for you. you have all the grit. the reason i said you had all the grit, this is because donald trump had tweeted something out about how you know, there should be more justices like samuel alito with the grit samuel alito has so i felt like it was flagged if you will. to alito. that it was. a safe space for him. a safe space, yes. i was trying to signal to him coyly without saying trump. because it goes back to the way to broach who has the highest level of discretion. you can t talk partisan politics if i walked up to him and talked joe biden or donald trump, he would have shut down. so talking polarization was a way to, a way into the conversation that wasn t as aggressive. but also indicative of what we were trying to get at. was he acting on bias. and i do believe that american people deserve to know. is the supreme court so compromised that we do not really have impartiality that bedrock of our judicial system. i think hearing it from his mouth that he cannot be impartial that some things cannot be compromised, that needs to be fuel for journalists and congress to say what are the things that cannot be compromised? look, you brought us into a room that few people are ever in. these tapes are revelator. it is, we are not done having this conversation. thank you for bringing some of that to our air. we are really appreciative. thanks for spending some time with me tonight lauren. thanks alex. coming up this hour, we have new details about donald trump s presentencing meeting with his probation officer. turns out, he is being treated differently. just maybe not in the way he would like you to believe. the first hunter biden today joined donald trump in becoming a convicted felon facing possible jail time. does that mean the system is now unrigged? we ll get into the republican response coming up next. epubli response coming up next. missing out on the things you love because of asthma? get back to better breathing with fasenra, an add-on treatment for eosinophilic asthma that is taken once every 8 weeks. fasenra is not for sudden breathing problems or other eosinophilic conditions. allergic reactions may 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( ) president biden s son hunter biden was found guilty on three felony gun charges and given this news you might have thought the maga conspiracy about president biden rigging the justice system, maybe you thought that is going to collapse. it did not. today is the first step in delivering accountability for the biden crime family. you have been saying two tiered justice system some time. the president s son being convicted three counts. every case is different. and clearly the evidence was overwhelming here. do you think the department of justice is still weaponnized against conservatives though we see this verdict? when they tell school moms they are domestic terrorists because they don t like what is taught in the classrooms. we could go into it but we won t. a trump campaign statement released today calls hunter biden s trial nothing more than a distraction from the real crimes of the biden crime family. and in lock step with the party front runner, the chairman of the house oversight committee said the work will not be done until the department of justice investigates everyone involved in the biden s corrupt influence peddling schemes. joining me now is charlie psychs. charlie, thank you for joining me. this criminal conviction is a distraction from the real crime family. is this going to work? it was awkwardment it is awkward for the talking point it was all rigged. that the biden justice department was weaponnized only against republicans. but, we live in a world in which the reality and the facts have a hard time catching up with the spin. and you can see how deeply invested republicans are in their talking point about the biden crime family so it is not a shock they will continue to repeat those talking points. over and over and over again. but i do think the contrast and the reaction to the conviction of donald trump and the conviction of hunter biden has been very, very telling here. this will come up at the debate and you though donald trump will try to make an issue of the fact that the president s son is a convicted felon which will be awkward being a convicted felon himself. but democrats have been making this point. and the media have been making the point that there are a number of democrats facing indictments under the biden justice department. not just the president s own son. they don t feel the need to explain that at all. they will just go with the spin. i wonder who the spin is for. you talk about the reaction. this was the statement from the president of the united states after his son is convicted of felonies. as i said last week, i am the president, but i am also a dad. jill and i love our son and we are so proud of the man he is today. so many families who have had loved ones battle addiction understand the feeling of pride seeing someone you love come out the other side and be strong and resilient in recovery. as i also said i will accept the outcome of this case and continue to respect the judicial process as hunter considers an appeal. jill and i will always be there for hunter and the rest of our family with our love and support. nothing will change that. i mean, that just, it is a very strong statement. it is a tough statement for a father to make. and i feel like that just undercuts whatever the republican argument is of the rigging of the system. among the voters that matter. the conviction of hunter biden shows the system is not rigged. it also shows this is the way the rule of law looks. this is what it looks like when no one is above the law. and president biden is also said, you know, has said on the record, that he will not use his pardon power to free his son if hunter biden gets a prison sentence. now, there are some people skeptical about that. but i don t think there is any reason to doubt his word at this point. and again, this creates a really significant difference between the tantrum donald trump and his supporters have thrown and the acceptance of the rule of law and the decision of a jury presented with all of this evidence. the point you are making is who is this for right now? almost everything republicans say is for the audience of one is for donald trump. this is what the base wants to hear. but, that is not the group of voters who will be deciding this election. and not to wax too poetic about it charlie. but embedded in biden s statement is a call to empathy. right? for those who have fallen for people who have addiction and are trying to make it through a dark, dark period. versus trump who is all grievance all the time. and i think we think a lot of things. we don t know a lot about where this country is headed but appealing to people s sense of forgiveness and empathy doesn t seem like a political strategy that has an expiration date. am i being too soft here? no. again it is an interesting contrast. joe biden s superpower is his empathy. and republicans are not going to give him any credit for it but a lot of americans will say okay. this is a tragic situation. you know, there are questions about hunter biden s judgment and his behavior. but also, what you are seeing from joe biden is, this is what a father, a father who has lost his other son, how they would react to something like that. and there will be a sliver of the electorate with crucial sliver that will look at that and say we understand that seems human to us. something we can identify with and admire in opposition to the conspiracy theories and the victim card playing and the really vicious attacks on the criminal justice system and the jury system coming from donald trump. yeah. it is a real choice ahead. and, this will be very, very indicative of who we are as a country. charlie, thank you for your time. it is great to see you. thank you. still to come this evening we have some new reporting about what appears to be a coordinated effort to broadcast disinformation about this fall s election on your local newscast. plus, when it comes to donald trump s criminal conviction, republicans need a reality check. we have one. that s next. eality check. we have one. that s next. 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(inaudible sounds) (elevator doors opening) wait, there s an elevator? only pay for what you need. liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty. right now across the u.s., people are trying to ban books from public schools and public libraries. yes, libraries. we all have a first amendment right to read and learn different viewpoints. that s why every book belongs on the shelf. yet book banning in the u.s. is worse than i ve ever seen. it s people in power who want to control everything. well, i say no to censorship. and i say yes to freedom of speech and expression. if you do too, please join us in supporting the american civil liberties union today. for over 100 years, the aclu has fought for your rights and mine. including the right to read all manner of books. so please call or go online to myaclu.org. for just $19 a month, only $0.63 a day. you can become a guardian of liberty and help protect all the rights promised to us by the u.s. constitution. make no mistake, this move to ban books is a coordinated attack on students right to learn. this is a clear violation of free speech. that s why the aclu is working to fight against censorship in all its forms. it is so important now more than ever. so please call or go to myaclu.org and become an aclu guardian of liberty, for just $19 a month. use your credit card and you ll get this special we the people t-shirt and more to show you re helping to protect the rights of all people. the aclu is in all 50 states, d.c. and puerto rico defending our first amendment right of free speech and all of your constitutional rights. because we the people, means all of us. so please, call or, go online to myaclu.org today. but st. jude has gotten us through it. st. jude is hope for every child diagnosed with cancer because the research is being shared all over the world. i just went through a rigged trial in new york. a rigged system. it is a terrible testimony actually. but it is a rigged system. the whole system is rigged. this was a rigged trial by a conflicted judge who was corrupt. rigged, rigged, rigged, rigged. that s been donald trump s refrain during his criminal trial in new york. the entire system is rigged against him. and yet, the system really seems to be bending in his favor lately as we saw at his probation interview. it lasted less than half an hour and he was allowed to attend over zoom from his mar-a- lago beach club in florida with his lawyer seated by his side. just for perspective here, according to a statement released by multiple public defender groups in new york city, public defenders are deprived of joining their clients for these meetings. the options of joining them virtually by zoom is typically not extended to the people we represent either. joining me now is duncan levan who served as a senior staffer at the manhattan da s office. he is now a criminal defense attorney. thank you for joining me to make sense of this madness here. first of all, the circumstances of this probation interview. they sound easy. but donald trump says everything is rigged against him. who is right? this is something that is so routine and it typically takes hours. to the extent there have been things that have been different for him. they have only been different in his favor. most defendants have to come there in person. it is a drab office. these things take hours. there are reports his probation interview took half an hour. this is an opportunity for probation to ask the type of questions that a judge might want to know on sentencing that don t come out in the trial. so this is somebody obviously, this defendant is somebody who is so well vetted everybody knows everything. but for most defendants, the judge doesn t have a sense of who they are as a person. what their family situation is. their immigration status is. are they using drugs so a lot of people know this about donald trump. but, so you could say well, half an hour, maybe all you need. but the fact is this is them doing their due diligence. to the extent it is on zoom. the lawyers there. it is only half an hour to tex tent that it is rigged or different, it has only been in his favor. the other piece of this that he likes bringing up is the presence in this case on the da side of matthew calangalo. he previously worked at the department of justice and now works for alvin bragg and they have literally used him as the missing link of joe biden and alvin bragg. let me say for people who are not familiar, this is how trump talks about him. he is a radical left from the doj who was put into the state working with letitia james and put into the district attorney s office to run the trial against trump. we will take issue with it. put into? passive in that statement. but you have gone between the doj and the doj s office. is that a normal thing that happens and now in line with reality is this argument? in the letter, just today, the department of justice said this was conspiratorial speculation. i think it is something a lot more sinister. it is an attempt to undermine law enforcement. first off, the manhattan da s office and doj work together all the time. there are joint task forces on terrorism. on hate crimes. there is a joint task force that looks at the filings that banks file. the suspicious activity reports. there have been joint cases prosecuted by the department of justice and the manhattan da s office against banks like standard charter, ing. there have been cases every day that are deconflicted between the department of justice. they don t arrest the same person. people go back and forth. i went from the manhattan da s office and back. robert morgan, the most famous manhattan da who served for 35 years from 1975 to 2010, prior to becoming. he was an obama plant. is that you are telling me? a stooge of the administration. it is preposterous, there is no sense these cries of foul play will end any time soon. this is all coming to a head on july 11th when there is the sentencing hearing for trump and i guess i wonder what your expectation for that is. and whether there is anything to be done around the cries of foul play in a rigged system that are inevitably going to come up no matter what he is sentenced. it is such a hard decision for the judge and you wouldn t wish it on your worst inny or both sides. nobody should want him to go to jail or want anyone to go to jail. it s a sad day. the prosecution is virtually going to be asking for jail time. the defense is virtually going to be asking for a sentence of a conditional discharge saying he has been punished enough by the felony. and there will be outcry on both sides. i don t know there is any way through the political thicket of it other than to say this is a judge who has been around the block. he will be taking this seriously and fairly and i think you will see a sentence that is sort of free of some of those political considerations. something that he will be, maybe down the middle. both sides will be able to make of it like a rorschach test and they will be able to argue around it. well, that is not exactly, you are not giving me the inside dope on what you think it would be. but look. for all of that we have seen, it feels like the volume will only increase into july 11th. thank you for helping us through this. coming up, trump appointee judge aileen cannon tosses out part of trump s indictment in the classified documents case. but first, some very orwellian messages being broadcast from your local news stations. that s next. your local news stations. that s next. i m out of breath, and often out of the picture. but this is my story. ( ) and with once-daily trelegy, it can still be beautiful. because with 3 medicines in 1 inhaler, trelegy keeps my airways open for a full 24 hours and prevents future flare-ups. trelegy also improves lung function, so i can breathe more freely all day and night. trelegy won t replace a rescue inhaler for sudden breathing problems. tell your doctor if you have a heart condition or high blood pressure before taking it. do not take trelegy more than prescribed. trelegy may increase your risk of thrush, pneumonia, and osteoporosis. call your doctor if worsened breathing, chest pain, mouth or tongue swelling, problems urinating, vision changes, or eye pain occur. what a wonderful world [laughing] ask your doctor about once-daily trelegy for copd because breathing should be beautiful, all day and night. it s time. yes, the time has come for a fresh approach to dog food. everyday, more dog people are deciding it s time to quit the kibble and feed their dogs fresh food from the farmer s dog. made by vets and delivered right to your door precisely portioned for your dog s needs. it s an idea whose time has come. your best defense against erosion and cavities is strong enamel. nothing beats it. i recommend pronamel active shield because it actively shields the enamel to defend against erosion and cavities. i think that this product is a game changer for my patients. it really works. our greatest responsibility is to serve our treasure valley communities. eastern iowa communities. mid michigan communities. we are extremely proud of the quality, balanced journalism that cbs4 news produces. but beare concerned about a troubling trend of one sided news stories plaguing our country. we are concerned about a troubling trend of irresponsible one sided news stories plaguing our country. do you remember that nightmare fuel from 2018? the media organization sinclair broadcast group which owns nearly 200 local tv news outlets had dozens of their local anchors all read the same orwellian script about bias in the media. unfortunately, some members of the media use their platforms to push their own personal bias and agenda to control exactly what people think. and this is extremely dangerous to our democracy. today, sinclair broadcast group was caught again with dozens of local anchors again reading the same script. the newsletter s public notice and popular information brought attention to the copy cat newscast which might have a very clear conservative agenda. the wall street journal calling into question the mental fitness of president joe biden. the issue could be an election decider. the issue could be an election decider. now the story these dozens of local news outlets ran with was based on a widely panned piece in the wall street journal last week. claiming that behind closed doors, president biden is showing signs of slippage. the only people quoted on the record to support that recording were republican officials including former speaker of the house kevin mccarthy who is not at all known for being the most reliable anything. meanwhile, several democrats said they gave quotes to the wall street journal for that piece and the paper chose not to include them. he told the journal biden is someone who is sharp, engaged and leads the conversation. now aside from the clear partisan edge to this, gallop shows that americans have low trust of national media outlets. but that is not true when it comes to local news. pew research polling showed that 71% of americans trust their local outlets. maybe your undecided voter neighbor doesn t trust the wall street journal but they might trust the station that gives them the weather. and that is the real issue. that issue could be an election decider an election decider [music playing] tiffany: my daughter is mila. she is 19 months old. she is a little ray of sunshine. one of the happiest babies you ll probably ever meet. [giggles] children with down syndrome typically have a higher risk for developing acute myeloid leukemia, or just leukemia in general. and here we are. marlo thomas: st. jude children s research hospital works day after day to find cures and save the lives of children with cancer and other life-threatening diseases. tiffany: she was referred to st. jude at 11 months. they knew what to do as soon as they got her diagnosis. they already had her treatment plan drawn out. and they were like, this is what we re going to do. this is how long it s going to take. this is how long in between. this place is like a family to us now. like, i can t say enough how grateful we are to be here. medical bills are always a big thing to everybody because everybody knows that anything medical is going to be expensive. we have received no bills since being at st. jude. we have paid for nothing. marlo thomas: thanks to generous donors like you, families never receive a bill from st. jude for treatment, travel, housing, or food so they can focus on helping their child live. for just $19 a month, you ll help us continue the lifesaving research and treatment that these kids need now and in the future. join with your credit or debit card right now, and we ll send you this st. jude t-shirt that you can proudly wear to show your support. tiffany: anybody and everybody that contributes anything to this place, no matter if it s a big business or just the grandmother that donates once a month, they are changing people s lives. and that s a big deal. [music playing] a slow network is no network for business. that s why more choose comcast business. and now, we re introducing ultimate speed for business our fastest plans yet. we re up to 12 times faster than verizon, at&t, and t-mobile. and existing customers could even get up to triple the speeds. at no additional cost. it s ultimate speed for ultimate business. don t miss out on our fastest speed plans yet! switch to comcast business and get started for $49.99 a month. plus, ask how to get up to an $800 prepaid card. call today! in an order that otherwise denied yet another attempt by the defense to end the criminal prosecution of donald trump over his handling of classified documents, judge aileen cannon has given trump a partial win. the paragraph describing after he left the presidency, he allegedly showed a classified map to to someone. he admitted at the time he shouldn t show the map to someone without security clearance and told the person not to look too closely at it. while it illustrates how allegedly cavalier he was with classified information, prosecutors never charged trump with crimes involving sharing classified information and now the judge has struck it from the indictment. joining me now is bradley moss. bradley, how big of a deal is it for prosecutors that this map incident has been struck from the indictment? it certainly is not a critical factor, all this means is it is not sitting in what is otherwise known as a speaking indictment. it is still information that prosecutors can bring out at trial and will litigate to ensure that they can bring it out is sort of the evidence of a prior bad act in the context of mr. trump s intent. his motive. his willingness to conceal this information. that he knew he had this records. this is a minor victory for mr. trump. the issue is that it took so long. it could have been resolved weeks ago. it never needed to have taken this long. if it is not a significant win for trump, is it indicative of a broader tension? because throughout this case, it seems like it is ratcheted up in recent months. there is maybe not a volley. the judge does not seem happy with jack smith and his team. the tensions continue to boil. in a hearing just a few weeks ago, it got to prosecutors were so upset. and frustrated with their attempt to try to explain to judge cannon their view on the case law and how certain legal precedents applied, that the judge had to basically counsel them to calm down. none of us were there. i don t know how badly that got out of hand. but it is never a good sign if you are lawyer and the judge tells you to calm down. judge cannon has chosen to take a slow methodical approach here. she has not granted donald trump anything of substance yet at any point in this case. but because of how she has dragged it out, it is almost guaranteed this will never see the light of day. they will never get the trial before people go to the voting booth in november. that seems guaranteed. there is an open question about whether we will see the trial period. but that will depend on politics. i do need to ask trump filed another motion to dismiss today. this one says the fbi destroyed evidence by not showing where it was in contrast to nonclassified material. trump says he didn t pack the boxes and know what was in there. how substantiative is this or does it matter? is it just more delay? i think this largely is a delay tactic. if hope at best they might get an evidencey hearing. how the boxes were organized this way. whether or not there is something of allegations of bias and improper storage. on on the merits, it doesn t absolve trump of the idea that he willfully retained the documents. he knew he had them in 2022. when he turned stuff over to the archives. he is talking with his lawyers they are telling him to turn it over. we keep finding stuff. it will not ultimately change anything. but it will quite possibly the way judge cannon handles things but it will drag things out a little more. we are
destruction of evidence, and it doesn t absolve trump of the idea that he willfully retained the documents. he knew he had them in 2022, when he turned stuff over to the archives. they told him, hey, there s classified documents in this stuff. they knew he had them over the course of the next year, talking to his lawyers telling him, turn them over. and the fbi kept funding stuff in what you are turning over. it will ultimately not change anything, but quite possibly with the way judge cannon handles things, it could drag it out just a little bit more. just a little bit more. we are now at the first anniversary of the mar-a-lago case, the grand jury and bob dikeman came down on june 8th, 2023. anyone s guess if we get to the second anniversary. bradley moss, thank you, sir, for your time tonight. have a good night. that is our show for this evening. now, it is time for the last word , with jonathan k part. lawrence o donnell come in for jonathan. i would love to see if we get the classified documents case, but who knows? she take, with the number not on the cake, and eat it depending or not, if it happens. if it is sheet cake, let s just eat it, anyway. have a good show. thank you. today, a jury convicted hunter biden, the only surviving son of president joe biden, of three federal gun felonies. after a little less than three hours of deliberations, 12 jurors in president biden s home state of delaware agreed with prosecutors that hunter biden lied on a mandatory gun purchase form by saying he was not illegally using or addicted to drugs at a time when he was. president joe biden responded with this statement. as i said last week, i am the president, but i am also a dad. jill and i love our son, and we are so proud of the man he is today. i will accept the outcome of this case and will continue to respect the judicial process as hunter considers an appeal. jill and i will always be there for hunter, and the rest of our family with our love and support. nothing will ever change that. she didn t attack the verdict. he didn t say it was rigged. he didn t attack the judge, the prosecutors, or the jury. no, all the while, an irresponsible reaction to the hunter biden verdict today came from republicans. some of whom have embraced the conspiracy myth that the justice department charged and convicted hunter biden of these felonies to misdirect from other crimes, big-league crimes, unnamed, unspecified, imagined, biden crimes that are much bigger and better than all of the actual crimes donald trump is charged with. x trump adviser, steve miller, posted, the hunter biden verdict is proof that doj is the democrat protection racket. he called the verdict a distraction from the real crimes. one right-wing commentator things hunter biden was prosecuted as cover for the trump prosecution? i don t know if this is fair, you go after donald trump and you go after hunter biden. okay, in republicans defense, you might go a little crazy, too, if you had to defend backing a known fraudster, sexual abuser, and now 34 times convicted felon for president. in a new op-ed, attorney general merrick garland denounced the attacks on the the justice department. they are baseless, personal, and dangerous. today, the doj sent a letter to jim jordan to confirm that there were no emails between any justice department officials and the office of manhattan district attorney, alvin bragg. the department has no control over the district attorney, just as the district attorney has no control over the department. the committee knows this. despite that, district attorney bragg has agreed to testify before the house on july 12th, the day after donald trump s sentencing. a spokesperson for the manhattan d.a.s office said, it undermines the rule of law to spread dangerous misinformation, baseless claims, and conspiracy theories following the jury s return of a full count felony conviction in people be trump. nonetheless, we respect our government institutions and plan to appear voluntarily before the subcommittee after sentencing. joining us now, former acting solicitor general of the united states, who has argued more than 50 cases before the supreme court. he is a professor at georgetown law and msnbc legal analyst and host of the podcast courtside with neil cocktail. neil, thank you much as always for being here. so, now, some republicans are pushing the hunter biden jury verdict as proof of a doj conspiracy. this is some carrie matheson red yarn over a corkboard stuff. eight you have that on your bingo card? it is almost impossible. i mean, jonathan, the verdict today makes these conservative claims look ridiculous. i m i mean, for years, these conservatives have been pulling about a politicized justice department and so on. what happened today, this justice department convicted the president s own son, his only living son. i mean, imagine what that would take. imagine you are the attorney general and the president gave you that job, jonathan, one of the most important jobs in the country, in the world, and you have the power as every attorney general does, as merrick garland does, to end the prosecution with the stroke of a pen and you didn t do it. garland didn t do it. that is what the rule of law is all about, and similarly, the constitution gives the power to the president to pull the plug on any in the constitution, that is article two. so, president biden could have absolutely ended this prosecution once and for all. he didn t do it. that is the test about someone who has convictions in the system. and when it is over, you didn t hear joe biden whining about a trump judge even though the judge here is literally a trump judge appointed by trump, rather you heard the president say, he would accept the outcome of the case. i know no other word for that, but presidential. even went so far as to say he wouldn t pardon his son, that is how much respect he has for the system. so, neal, we saw this with judge merchan, and it seems to be merrick garland s way, too, trying to lower the temperature in the wake of these over the top trump republican attacks. do you think he is responding proportionately to the trump be an all out war on our justice system? i was really glad to see the attorney general s op-ed today in the washington post basically saying, look, what the department does is just apply the rule of law, we do so fairly and impartially. that is the justice department that i saw, jonathan, when i worked there in two different administrations. it is why people respect this country so much. this morning, i had the privilege of speaking at a naturalization ceremony for 150 new citizens from 54 countries, and what did they respect about america? they respect exactly a verdict like this, that even the president s own son can be convicted by the president s justice department and the president s prosecution arm, because this president, as almost every president in our history does, respects the constitution and respects the rule of law, unlike some of these republicans, like stephen miller, who spit on this every chance they can. what do you expect to see when manhattan d.a. alvin bragg testifies before jim jordan subcommittee? do you think you made the right decision? i expect to see a big nothing. i expect to see all sorts of innuendo, akin to the kind of innuendo we are hearing today about how joe biden helped orchestrate the felony conviction of his own son even though it was overseen by trump appointed national council and adjudicated by trump judge i am sure we will hear craig cray like that, but there will be no fax, because as the justice department even said today, literally, there was no communication between the prosecutor, matthew, angelo, the centerpiece of these crazy conspiracy theories, and the justice department, zero, none. so, have the hearing. by all means, of course, that is part of congress responsibilities and oversight. , it would be nice to have some facts in those hearings. yeah, it would be nice to have some. i am not expecting any, though. neal, neal katyal, thank you very much for coming to the last word . thank you. so, here s how you know can pick the convicted felon, trump, knows it can get much, much, much worse for him. you have a deranged individual named jack smith, he is a deranged, john dumb guy, he is a dumb son of a convicted felon, trump, indicted by special prosecutor jack smith on multiple criminal charges for his unsuccessful attempt to overturn the 2020 election, also praised that january 6th writers that attacked the capital calling them warriors. those january 6th warriors, they were warriors, but more than anything else, they were victims of what happened. all they were doing was protesting a rigged election, that is all they were doing. while trump was landing in las vegas sunday, president biden was returning from france after commemorating the 80th anniversary of d-day. the biden campaign has released this ad, featuring three american veterans slamming former president trump for being a draft dodger. a good commander in chief is somebody who gives a [ bleep ]. i registered, i served in the united states marine corps point my name is ed mccabe. i served from the 1990s until 2014. my name is matthew mclaughlin. i was a navy pilot for eight years. it is the first time i m shaking the hands of a president of the united states. it was pretty impactful to me to see an individual that supports troops not just on the battlefield, but when we return home. i see a man in joe biden who accepts accountability and responsibility, and when i see his predecessor, donald trump, i see a man who is only in this for himself. who criticizes veterans, who doesn t see it important to go to the funerals. donald trump has zero accountability in his life. is a draft dodger, simple as that. yesterday, draft dodger donald trump sat for his first probation hearing as a convicted felon, a mandatory requirement before his sentencing on july 11th. meanwhile, president biden held a white house event commemorating juneteenth, a federal holiday he established in 2021 to recognize the emancipation of enslaved african americans after the civil war. in his remarks, president biden reminded the audience why black history is still so important. but, let s be clear, they are all ghosts, and they are trying to take this back. they are taking away your freedoms, making it harder for black people to vote. well, i will have your vote counted. closing doors of opportunity, attacking diversity, equity, and inclusion. if you can believe it, banning books about black experiences, trying to erase and rewrite history. or, this is not just about the past, this is about our present and our future. it is whether or not that future is the future for all of us, not just some of us. folks, black history is american history. black history is american history. joining us now, former democratic leader of the house of representatives, james clyburn of north carolina, he is a co-chair of the biden- harris campaign, congressman clyburn, always good to see you, welcome back to the show. i was at the juneteenth event last night and president biden has touted the inflation reduction act, and lowering drug prices, but listen to how the events host, comedian roy wood junior, talked about that achievement. we have legislation now for cheaper prescription drugs because of this administration. insulin is down to $35, if you are a senior. and i don t know if anybody here has paid for insulin before, but that is like the bottle service of prescription drugs. so, we appreciate that $35 right there. [ laughter ] congressman clyburn, i love the relate ability roy wood jr. used to break it down. it is funny, but it is telling a policy success story. does the campaign need to do more of that? well, thank you very much for having me, jonathan. absolutely. we have got to get this out there. this administration has a record that is unequaled, even cannot be imagined by a lot of people who have thought about these kinds of things as we went into the last election. this administration, with this rescue plan, has brought young children out of poverty with this infrastructure bill. it has put in $65 billion for internet when we had no money for infrastructure in the previous administration. it is chips and signs act, it is packed act, it is inflation reduction act. all of these things people said could not be done, joe biden did them. and i get a little irritated when i hear people telling me, well, he isn t talking loud enough. he isn t showing the kind of energy we want. we are about substance. substance, not style. that is what will move this country forward. that is what we will leave for our children and grandchildren, to be proud of. real substance. you can talk loud, you can misrepresent, you can prance around. but, the question is, what are you doing? i grew up in the prostitute and i used to listen to my dad s sermons. one of the things i learned early, it is their deeds that make them, not their words. and if you get caught up on the words, and don t pay any attention to the deeds, you might believe in donald trump. but, if you are all about deeds, you will be supporting this president, this administration, biden and harris. well, let s talk about so, more deeds, congressman clyburn. today, the biden administration announced that medical get that can no longer be considered in credit scores and president biden has made debt elimination one of his major pitches on the campaign, but new polling shows that voters are split on student loan forgiveness. three out of 10 approve and four out of 10 disapprove. how concerned are you about the polling numbers we see on the screen there? i think it is because people have misrepresented this whole thing about student loan debt elimination. joe biden, if you look at the program, he made it very clear, we are talking about eliminating this compound it is interest and all of the things that have accumulated beyond what the original debt was. i have got a constituent not a black constituent, but still a constituent in north charleston who wrote to the president and copied to me. his original loan was $60,000. over the years, she has paid back nearly $200,000 because of compounded interest, and paying for it for more than 20 years and still owed money. so, when he eliminated that debt, it was on the compounded interest, not the original loan. and people need to look at that. when i hear senator romney saying that this is a bad deal, how can this be a bad deal? the principal is paid back a long, long, long time ago. these people are paying compounded interest that has been put out there about people who are making money when the original principal was paid back a long time ago. so, that is what is going on here. so, nobody is paying anybody s debt. they paid off the debt. it is a compounded interest that people are electing and that is putting people in the poorhouse, as we say down south. congressman, let me get you on one more thing before we have to go in a couple of minutes. let s talk about comments that entertainer, $.50, meanwhile on capitol hill last week. listen to this. what do you think appears as significant to african-american men this election? i see them identify with trump. why do you say that? because they got rico charges. congressman clyburn, your reaction, black men are moving to trump because they ve got rico charges? [ laughter ] look, he should ve been with me last saturday night at the south carolina naacp freedom fund dinner. 100% support for joe biden. not one single person in their, male or female, for donald trump. he should have been with me at greater target memorial miami church on sunday morning, 100% for joe biden. not a single person there for donald trump. i don t know where $.50 is hanging out, but i hang out with naacp. i hang out with the black community, black faith community, and i don t see any support for donald trump. these people aren t worried about rico statutes, they are worried about their children s student loan debt. they are worried about the cost of insulin, when it comes to their healthcare. they are worried about affordable housing. they are worried about broadband deployment. that is what they are getting from this president and they are thinking whatever it is, what they will talk about in rico statutes. the rico statutes down in georgia, that is what donald trump violated. and so, we are upset because he is being called to account for violating the rico statutes? come on, 50 cent. that is worth a dollar to know better. [ laughter ] congressman james clyburn, always great to see you. thanks for coming to the last word . thank you very much for having me. [ laughter ] all right. $.50. we are 11 days into pride month and there is one person i know who is in celebrating justice samuel alito s wife has been caught on tape sharing her exasperation in seeing pride flags from her house. and that is not the only reason we should be worried about what is on those secret recordings. that is next. at is next. that helps treat and prevent, all in one. to those with migraine, i see you. for the acute treatment of migraine with or without aura and the preventive treatment of episodic migraine in adults. don t take if allergic to nurtec odt. allergic reactions can occur, even days after using. most common side effects were nausea, indigestion, and stomach pain. it s time we all shine. talk to a healthcare provider about nurtec odt from pfizer. summer. it s the hungriest time of year for kids across america. kids whose hardworking families are struggling to make ends meet. whether it s working the crazy hours so you can have enough money for food or, you know, just giving up things for your personal self, and it s just yeah, gotta feed your kids. far too many kids are missing the meals they need this summer. that s why i m here now asking you to join me in helping end child hunger in america for just $0.63 a day. that s only $19 a month. you can help provide healthy meals to power kids through their days. they re growing at this age, and they need the best diet they can have. so please, call now or go online to helpnokidhungry.org right now give $19 a month, only $0.63 a day. and when you use your credit card, you ll get this special team t-shirt to show that you re helping kids build a brighter future for themselves and for the world. we want to ensure that all of our kids have healthy meals every day, and many of our parents and many of our communities are still suffering. it s very difficult to, you know, have a good family setting when we are worrying about having enough food for your family. you can help kids get healthy meals this summer and all year long. please join me in supporting no kid hungry today. for just $0.63 a day, only $19 a month. you can help provide healthy meals to kids across america and in your local community. thank you for giving. thank you for giving. thank you! families are struggling to make ends meet. these are hard times. so please call now or go online to give. my wife is fond of flying flags. that is what supreme court justice samuel alito said when he blamed his wife for flying two different flags at their homes that are associated with the stop the steel movement and carried by writers at the january 6th insurrection. new secret recordings of his wife, martha and alito are revealing more about flying flags. you know what i want? i want a sacred heart of jesus flag because i have to look across the lagoon at the pride flags next month and he is like, please don t put up a flag. and i said, i want to do it because i am referring to you. but, when you are free of this nonsense, i m putting it up and i m going to send them a message every day, maybe every week i will be changing the flags. they will be all kind, this is how i satisfy myself. i made a flag. it s white and it is yellow and orange flames around it and in the middle is the word vergona, which means shame in italian. that is the wife of a supreme court justice being openly hostile to a complete stranger about the pride flag. a symbol of freedom and equality for the lgbtq+ community during pride month. people, like me, being proud of who they are makes her mad. it makes her want to send them a message. it makes her want to fly a flag that says shame. this is not a woman who is unclear about the message of the flags she is fine. and for what it is worth, i don t think anyone would care if they looked across the potomac and saw a jesus flag flying. there are lots of martha-ann s in america who also harbor this kind of grievance. but, this is martha-ann alito. she is not just any random person, she is married to a supreme court justice, for life. one of the most powerful people in the country, who is actively rolling back americans constitutional rights. justice alito authored the majority opinion revoking nearly 50 years of rights for women when the court overturned roe v wade. that laid the foundation for another right-wing justice with a right-wing wife, clarence thomas, to target the lgbtq+ community by saying the supreme court should reconsider two cases that reaffirmed the rights of same-sex, including same-sex marriage. so, martha-ann alito longs for the day when samuel alito is free of all this nonsense. she is thinking about who will replace him on the court. are you? joining me now, kelly robinson, president of the human rights campaign. kelly, thank you for coming back to the last word . your reaction to what we heard from mrs. alito? shocking, and also not shocking in the same sense. what she is saying about flags, it is not about flags, it is a dog whistle to maga bullies across the board. what she wants to do is use the flag as a simple to talk about how they want to erase us from public life, to push us back into the closet. and when i think about what today represents, not only is it pride month, but tomorrow represents eight years since the pulse mass shooting, were 49 members of our communities lives were stolen forever. this type of violent action and political rhetoric leads to real-world outcomes. so, anyone that is listening to her, anyone who is watching what she says should be very, very concerned. not only about her words, but what it means in terms of the actions of the people that are listening to her. this new audio from justice alito tonight, listen. i just wanted to ask you, why do you think the supreme court is so is being so attacked and being so targeted by the media these days? well, i think it s a simple reason. they don t like our decisions and they don t like how they anticipate we may decide some cases that are coming up. that s that s the beginning and the end of it. kelly, does the sound often is, given the two abortion cases and two january 6th cases yet to be decided this term? to me, it sounds hypocritical. i mean, i remember when barack obama wore a tan suit and people acted like it was the end of democracy. those lines! right! now, we are talking about a whole supreme court justice whose wife is saying things like this, who is espousing these beliefs that are concerning for someone who is on the highest court of the land. so, i do think anyone who is listening to the words that are coming out of justice alito s mouth, you should be concerned. but, i also know if you are a person of color, if you are an lgbtq+ person, a woman, or someone who is non-binary, we don t have the luxury of letting our concern and fear put us into a state of paralysis. we have to understand that this is why it is more critical than ever that we get out and vote this november. our lives are quite literally at stake. you know, trump is out there giving comfort to antiabortion groups, promising to defend life, while republicans are not voting to protect conception. today, a federal judge struck down a florida ban on transgender care for minors. these all sound like rights this ideological supreme court has no interest in protecting. they don t. they have said the quiet part out loud already. i mean, we have to remember that when roe v wade was overturned, justice clarence thomas concurrence, he said out loud, the next court should revisit lawrence, they should revisit griswold, these are cases that fundamentally asserted our basic rights as lgbtq+ people in this country, and our right to contraception. so, anytime they say that these things aren t on the table, that these rights aren t at risk, look at what they are doing. we should all, again, be very concerned with what we are seeing, but also take it as a call to action, because at the end of the day, we still live in a democracy. our votes still count, and there is something we can do right now about how this course has gotten so far disconnected from this actual mission and our democracy. you know, as i mentioned before, i was at the juneteenth event where i met your beautiful wife last night, but that is not the point why i m bringing that up. i want to play something that vice president harris said last night. watch. across our nation, we witnessed a full on attack on hard-fought, hard won freedoms and rights, including the freedom of a woman to make decisions about her own body, the freedom to be who you are and love who you love openly and with pride, the freedom from fear of bigotry and hate, the freedom to learn and acknowledge our nation s true and full history, and the freedom that unlocks all others the freedom to vote. how important is it to stress to voters that the supreme court is on the ballot in november? what is at stake is more samuel alito, or marco tonya brown jackson? exactly. what i saw from kamala harris right now, that is leadership. and at the end of the day when we think about this election that is coming up, it is not just about two candidates, it is about two fundamentally different visions for our country, two fundamentally different visions for our future, and our children. when you talk to people regardless of where they are on the political spectrum, a lot of our fears are the same, worry that your kids will have a better life than you do today, worries about inflation, making sure schools are good, and welcoming, and safe. but, i want to make sure that whoever we elect, the solutions are about moving us forward and not pulling us back. what the supreme court has shown that they are willing to do from the overturn of roe v wade, to all that they have said and done in the last year, they are willing to roll back the rights, not even the last 10 years or last 40 years, but the last 100. we have got to do something about it, for the sake of all of our communities, and especially for the sake of our kids. kelly robinson, president of the human rights campaign, thank you very much for coming to the last word . thank you. coming up, it is election night in nevada. it is a must win state for joe biden and kamala harris, and a must win seat for democrats if they hope to hold onto the senate. nevada senator jacky rosen joins us next. ins us next. and long-lasting gain scent beads. part of the irresistible scent collection from gain. rising costs. selective coverage. for countless americans, the complex specialty care they need has always felt. just out of reach. at evernorth, we give members unrivaled access to the most complex therapies at the best prices. while providing enhanced support like in home nursing at no additional cost. that s wonder made possible. evernorth health services. hi guys! bill, you look great! now that i have inspire, i m free from struggling with the mask and the hose. inspire? 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well, i can tell you latino voters in nevada, they are the decisive vote. i can also tell you that my team in nevada, so many of them born and raised in nevada, i, myself, lived there for the last 50 years, just about. so, we are in the community all the time, we are listening, we are responding. i can tell you, i sit on the small business and entrepreneurship committee, and when i talk to our latin chamber of congress, we talked to all of our latino small businesses, so many entrepreneurs, we want to be sure that they have all the tools they need to keep their small business and thrive. we talk about affordable healthcare, it is really, really important that we talk about education, our environment, we are connecting with our latino voters every day on the issues that matter to them. kitchen table issues, the same issues that matter to everybody else. senator rosen, the late longtime nevada senator, harry reid, built a famous statewide democratic organization in nevada. is the reid machine still in effect in nevada? well, what senator reid did is really build a coordinated campaign. so, what that means for the nevada state democratic party, all of the candidates, the incumbents and candidates who are running, we work together to be sure we knock on doors, we do our field program, we are talking about the issues, we coordinate. that is really what is the magic. being sure that we are communicating, working together, bringing people together, because nevada families really matter. listening to them and delivering for them really matters, like delivering for our seniors. i can tell you for our veterans, we passed the pact act in northern nevada in reno, we will have that va hospital, they are searching for that 50 acre site now. it will be a game changer for the veterans in northern nevada. whether it is our seniors, our veterans, our students, our tours economy, we are listening, and we are delivering. senator jacky rosen of nevada, thank you very much for coming to the last word . thank you for having me. coming up, biden is beating trump in a new election forecast, and one of the big reasons is biden s strength in the key swing state of wisconsin, and particularly with a group of voters who make up the bulk of the trump base. that is next. that is next. okay everyone, our mission is to provide complete, balanced nutrition for strength and energy. yay - woo hoo! ensure, with 27 vitamins and minerals, nutrients for immune health. and ensure complete with 30 grams of protein. 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the fundamentals favored biden, and according to 538, biden currently has a better chance of winning pennsylvania and all of the blue wall states of michigan, minnesota, and wisconsin. my newest favorite, the washington post has a new report about president biden s success so far in wisconsin, where republicans will officially renominate a convicted felon donald trump after a national convention next month. particularly, with white, noncollege voters who make up the trump base. the post reports wisconsin democrats attribute part of biden s relative strength with white voters without degrees to a real progressive tradition that has faded but not disappeared and part of it to tenacious organizing, including in rural areas where many of those voters live. biden s campaign is investing in an unprecedented field operation in wisconsin with 47 coordinated campaign offices across the state, more offices than biden has in any other battleground state, and far more than republicans have in wisconsin, staffed by more than 100 full-time campaign workers. even ousted republican governor scott walker admitted to the post, the organization is on the side of the left, so joining us now, ben worker, wisconsin democratic republican chair, and sandy wendy, the greene county democratic party chair. thank you for coming to the last word . you worked tirelessly to defeat the scott walker gop machine in wisconsin, but it must still feel good to have walker praise the democratic organization. it does feel good. it is the result of a huge amount of work by thousands of people in the most rural parts of our state. in suburbs, big towns, small towns, and cities. our motto is we work statewide and year-round. we don t take anyone for granted and we don t write anyone off. that is what it takes to win in a state like wisconsin. you can see the result in the numbers and it is an exciting moment. if we win wisconsin we win the white house. sandy, tell us about the green county voters you are reaching out to. is this 2020 biden voters who might be going software a true undecided voter? what issues do they care about? i think the issues they care about are the real, kitchen table issues that a lot of us have been talking about. affordable care, healthcare. women s reproductive rights. voting rights. saving our democracy. good education and childcare. basically kitchen table issues, that is what we are hearing about. what do you say back to them when you hear about kitchen table economic issues? we talked to them about some of the issues president biden and kamala harris have already put forward. unemployment, the jobs that have been created. money that has come into greene county for various things such as our ymca in our county seat, in the city of munro. we have received funding for that. basic issues like that. we try to point out to people what is being done. on the flipside on the ground, what do you hear from voters about donald trump, if anything? that they really don t want to have him back in office. simple as that. simple as that. so, ben, how do voters how voters get their information has changed, much more in social media or add then newspaper editorials, which breaks my heart as an opinion writer. how has that changed voter outreach? the first thing we have to assume is that there is no silver bullet. you might get something on the evening news that reaches some voters. some voters are reading the weekly newspaper that comes in. maybe they pick it up in the grocery store. we have to really be everywhere. social media platforms. on any screen. billboards, yard signs, door to door organizing, phone calls, text messages. show up at parades. show up at county fairs. we try to build a surroundsound environment so people here from trusted messengers and we assume that just because you say something similar doesn t mean everyone has heard it. on you have to say it over and over and that is what it will take. we have to cut through the noise. trump is trying to confuse people. he s trying to throw people off. we need to bring people s focus back to what affects them directly. their freedom. to make their own decisions about their own body. living in a democracy and who is fighting for them, fighting special interests and bringing down costs. trump promising wealthy voters whatever they want. that contrast does resonate with people, but you have to go where the voters are and not expect them to come to you. you have been nodding in agreement. my last question to you is if president biden were to come to greene county and ask your advice on what he should say to voters, what would you tell him? that is a good question. i guess just to be honest with him and what he plans to do with the voters. listening to them, the most important thing, listening to the voters and what their issues are and being able to address those. i know if president biden were to come to greene county, they would be ecstatic. i can t tell time, so we actually have about 90 seconds l left. same weston to you. what would you say to team biden? what would you say they need to work on or watch out for? we love president biden w coming to our state because he does listen to people and they move toward him. we also have local candidates. 97 out of 99 assembly districts covered with local candidates. we are organizing everywhere. our website, if anyone wants to help us organize, volunteer, chip in. i love what president biden does which is really dig into what he is doing and wants to do. he announced a $3.3 billion investment by microsoft in a community where trump showed up and promised the sun, moon, and stars with a golden shovel and never did anything. that contrast early lands for people wondering what job they will be working over the next 10 years. when president biden does something it clicks. we love the president s visit, we hope they keep coming and we think we can draw a real contrast with trump who talks big, delivers nothing and tries to ward it all for himself instead of serving the people. i think it is guaranteed president biden and vice president harris will be back in wisconsin multiple times before election day. thank you both very time very much for coming to the e last word. we will be right back. when i was diagnosed with h-i-v, i didn t know who i would be. but here i am. being me. keep being you. and ask your healthcare provider about the number one prescribed h-i-v treatment, biktarvy. biktarvy is a complete, one-pill, once-a-day treatment used for h-i-v in many people whether you re 18 or 80. with one small pill, biktarvy fights h-i-v to help you get to undetectable and stay there whether you re just starting or replacing your current treatment. research shows that taking h-i-v treatment as prescribed and getting to and staying undetectable prevents transmitting h-i-v through sex. serious side effects can occur, including kidney problems and kidney failure. rare, life-threatening side effects include a buildup of lactic acid and liver problems. do not take biktarvy if you take dofetilide or rifampin. tell your healthcare provider about all the medicines and supplements you take, if you are pregnant or breastfeeding, or if you have kidney or liver problems, including hepatitis. if you have hepatitis b do not stop taking biktarvy without talking to your healthcare provider. common side effects were diarrhea, nausea, and headache. no matter where life takes you, biktarvy can go with you. talk to your healthcare provider today. citi s industry leading global payments solutions help their clients move money around the world seamlessly in over 180 countries. and help a partner like the world food programme as they provide more than food to people in need. together, citi and the world food programme empower families across the globe. nothing dims my light like a migraine. with nurtec odt, i found relief. the only migraine medication that helps treat and prevent, all in one. to those with migraine, i see you. for the acute treatment of migraine with or without aura and the preventive treatment of episodic migraine in adults. don t take if allergic to nurtec odt. allergic reactions can occur, even days after using. most common side effects were nausea, indigestion, and stomach pain. it s time we all shine. talk to a healthcare provider about nurtec odt from pfizer. that is tonight s last word. the 11th hour with stephanie ruhle starts now. tonight, hunter bide