should kill off a lot of the showers through tomorrow, lighterwinds, but the blue is hanging around the country, the arctic air we had early in the week so it will make it feel cooler than what we expect this time in june. we cooler than what we expect this time injune. we start off with clear skies, some sunshine, bit of mist and fog across western areas through tomorrow morning, a few showers across eastern areas, looks like it will be another day of sunshine and show�*s, the cloud bubbling up in the afternoon. the best centre in the west, 17 or 18 degrees, these are joe biden heading to delaware after his son is found guilty in federal court. ., ., , . , court. how will it affect this american — court. how will it affect this american political - court. how will it affect this american political dynasty? i court. how will it affect this - american political dynasty? farage american political dynasty? fa rage ducking american political dynasty? farage ducking for cover. do we take threats to politicians seriously enough. hello and welcome to newsnight, live each week night. a heady mix of illuminating interviews and eye—popping insight. tonight, we're dealing in big political danger, literally and metaphorically, on both sides of the atlantic. we'll talk biden in a moment with a fascinating guest. but first, here, nigel farage took some some incoming on top of an open top bus from an object — or objects as yet unidentified — and tweeted that our democracy is under threat. on the sofa tonight, marvin rees, the former labour mayor of bristol — no stranger to threats. the writer, broadcaster and podcaster rachel johnson and shaun bailey, the tory peer and former mayoral candidate for london and of course, our in—house political head honcho nick watt. firstly, rachel, you are the sister of politicians, the daughter of a politician and yet people feel that you are to blame, that they can abuse you. what is that like? i get it to such a — abuse you. what is that like? i get it to such a small _ abuse you. what is that like? i get it to such a small extent _ abuse you. what is that like? i get it to such a small extent compared to the two guys on either side of me and probably even nick gets it in the neck too. anyone vaguely recognisable is subject to, you know, some kind of... i was attacked in sainsbury�*s, that's what really surprised me. iwas in sainsbury�*s, that's what really surprised me. i was in sainsbury�*s? it wasn't even lidl! i had a glass of red wine phone over me at wimbledon. i thought, of red wine phone over me at wimbledon. ithought, at of red wine phone over me at wimbledon. i thought, at the home of lawn tennis? but you adjust. but lawn tennis? but you ad'ust. but because oft lawn tennis? but you adjust. but because of that are there times when you feel vulnerable, when you are on your guard? you you feel vulnerable, when you are on your guard?— your guard? you do, you do. i don't want to be — your guard? you do, you do. i don't want to be too _ your guard? you do, you do. i don't want to be too specific _ your guard? you do, you do. i don't want to be too specific about - your guard? you do, you do. i don't want to be too specific about it - want to be too specific about it because, you know, sometimes if you have a show on the radio, people know where you are at certain times and that can make you feel slightly vulnerable, i admit. and that can make you feel slightly vulnerable, iadmit. find and that can make you feel slightly vulnerable, i admit.— and that can make you feel slightly vulnerable, i admit. and the rest of the family are _ vulnerable, i admit. and the rest of the family are maybe _ vulnerable, i admit. and the rest of the family are maybe more - vulnerable, i admit. and the rest of the family are maybe more annuity| the family are maybe more annuity rates than you are because they take the flak all the time but do they talk to you about it?— the flak all the time but do they talk to you about it? when my father nets talk to you about it? when my father gets shouted — talk to you about it? when my father gets shouted at, _ talk to you about it? when my father gets shouted at, abuse, _ talk to you about it? when my father gets shouted at, abuse, he - talk to you about it? when my father gets shouted at, abuse, he says, - talk to you about it? when my father gets shouted at, abuse, he says, i i gets shouted at, abuse, he says, i think you mean my son, because they look very alike in many ways. timer;r look very alike in many ways. they actually look _ look very alike in many ways. they actually look quite _ look very alike in many ways. they actually look quite similar - look very alike in many ways. they actually look quite similar but you are definitely racheljohnson. thank ou, are definitely racheljohnson. thank you. kirsty- — are definitely racheljohnson. thank you, kirsty. marvin, _ are definitely racheljohnson. thank you, kirsty. marvin, there _ are definitely racheljohnson. thank you, kirsty. marvin, there was - are definitely racheljohnson. thank you, kirsty. marvin, there was a - you, kirsty. marvin, there was a documentary — you, kirsty. marvin, there was a documentary about _ you, kirsty. marvin, there was a documentary about you - you, kirsty. marvin, there was a documentary about you and - you, kirsty. marvin, there was a documentary about you and the | documentary about you and the controversy over the constant statue in bristol but there was a troubling moment for you and your wife, kirsten. before we talk about it, let's have a look at the clip. the olice let's have a look at the clip. the police have _ let's have a look at the clip. the police have warned marvin and his wife that _ police have warned marvin and his wife that there are direct threats being _ wife that there are direct threats being made to their family. they have had anti-terrorist _ have had anti—terrorist intelligence... - have had anti—terrorist intelligence... those l have had anti—terrorist - intelligence... those three have had anti—terrorist _ intelligence... those three words together, — intelligence... those three words together, it's— intelligence... those three words together, it's like, _ intelligence... those three words together, it's like, what? - intelligence... those three words together, it's like, what? they. intelligence... those three wordsl together, it's like, what? they say that it _ together, it's like, what? they say that it is _ together, it's like, what? they say that it is low—level— together, it's like, what? they say that it is low—level but _ together, it's like, what? they say that it is low—level but we - together, it's like, what? they say that it is low—level but we want. together, it's like, what? they sayi that it is low—level but we want you aware _ that it is low—level but we want you aware with — that it is low—level but we want you aware with the _ that it is low—level but we want you aware. with the kids, _ that it is low—level but we want you aware. with the kids, they- that it is low—level but we want you aware. with the kids, they saw - that it is low—level but we want you aware. with the kids, they saw the | aware. with the kids, they saw the first threat — aware. with the kids, they saw the first threat because _ aware. with the kids, they saw the first threat because someone - aware. with the kids, they saw the | first threat because someone wrote that marvin — first threat because someone wrote that marvin must _ first threat because someone wrote that marvin must die _ first threat because someone wrote that marvin must die on _ first threat because someone wrote that marvin must die on the - first threat because someone wrote that marvin must die on the side i that marvin must die on the side work _ that marvin must die on the side work. , ., , , ., , work. they said that they should put the t, that marvin _ work. they said that they should put the t, that marvin should _ work. they said that they should put the t, that marvin should diet. - work. they said that they should put the t, that marvin should diet. you | the t, that marvin should diet. you made liuht the t, that marvin should diet. you made light of— the t, that marvin should diet. you made light of it. _ the t, that marvin should diet. you made light of it. i— the t, that marvin should diet. ym. made light of it. i watched more of the documentary. your wife, kirsten, was physically moved by it and it had an effect. was physically moved by it and it had an effect-— was physically moved by it and it had an effect. , ., ~ had an effect. yes, we were talking before we came _ had an effect. yes, we were talking before we came on. _ had an effect. yes, we were talking before we came on. family - had an effect. yes, we were talking before we came on. family isn't - had an effect. yes, we were talking before we came on. family isn't inl before we came on. family isn't in play _ before we came on. family isn't in play i_ before we came on. family isn't in play. i step — before we came on. family isn't in play. i step into public life, my wife _ play. i step into public life, my wife and — play. i step into public life, my wife and children didn't. it is one of the _ wife and children didn't. it is one of the things tom watson want me about— of the things tom watson want me about in_ of the things tom watson want me about in 2012 when i was a candidate. someone asked for a photo of myself— candidate. someone asked for a photo of myself and the children and kirsten — of myself and the children and kirsten because they thought it would — kirsten because they thought it would be good and tom said you have to make _ would be good and tom said you have to make a _ would be good and tom said you have to make a decision because if they are in_ to make a decision because if they are in the — to make a decision because if they are in the photo they will be considered in play. i think sadly it has become part of the way that politics— has become part of the way that politics is— has become part of the way that politics is done. to be honest that isn'tjust_ politics is done. to be honest that isn'tjust about politics is done. to be honest that isn't just about politics and activism. _ isn't just about politics and activism, it is the journalistic framing _ activism, it is the journalistic framing of politics is often about the conflict and the row and the argument — the conflict and the row and the argument more than it is about nuance — argument more than it is about nuance and trade—offs and the subtleties of actually running the place _ subtleties of actually running the place and the trade—offs we must make _ place and the trade—offs we must make. that makes it difficult to have _ make. that makes it difficult to have meaningful discussions about the big _ have meaningful discussions about the big decisions. i�*m have meaningful discussions about the big decisions.— have meaningful discussions about the big decisions. i'm interested in this idea that — the big decisions. i'm interested in this idea that that _ the big decisions. i'm interested in this idea that that very _ the big decisions. i'm interested in this idea that that very thing - this idea that that very thing perhaps makes people think twice, going forward, but whether they want to enter public life and put themselves, really, on the front line. i themselves, really, on the front line. ., , ., , .,, line. i was overseas a view years a . o. line. i was overseas a view years ato. i line. i was overseas a view years ago- i was _ line. i was overseas a view years ago. i was standing _ line. i was overseas a view years ago. i was standing at _ line. i was overseas a view years ago. i was standing at the - line. i was overseas a view years ago. i was standing at the time. | ago. i was standing at the time. this— ago. i was standing at the time. this was— ago. i was standing at the time. this was 2010. he said one of his bil this was 2010. he said one of his big fears — this was 2010. he said one of his big fears is — this was 2010. he said one of his big fears is that the price people pay for— big fears is that the price people pay for getting involved in public life is— pay for getting involved in public life is becoming so high, you only have _ life is becoming so high, you only have two— life is becoming so high, you only have two people doing it, narcissists and those who will pay any price — narcissists and those who will pay any price to get power. there a danger— any price to get power. there a danger if— any price to get power. there a danger if we treat politics to the framework of anger and almost hatred.~~ _ framework of anger and almost hatred, . . -_ framework of anger and almost hatred,... ,, ., ., , ., hatred,... shaun, you have been a candidate and _ hatred,... shaun, you have been a candidate and you _ hatred,... shaun, you have been a candidate and you are _ hatred,... shaun, you have been a candidate and you are out - hatred,... shaun, you have been a candidate and you are out with - candidate and you are out with conservative candidates and i wonder if you feel the hostility and you get incoming?— if you feel the hostility and you get incoming? if you feel the hostility and you tet incomin: ? �*, ., ., , ., get incoming? there's no doubt that there are good _ get incoming? there's no doubt that there are good people _ get incoming? there's no doubt that there are good people who - get incoming? there's no doubt that there are good people who would i get incoming? there's no doubt that there are good people who would be in politics _ there are good people who would be in politics who — there are good people who would be in politics who have _ there are good people who would be in politics who have seen— there are good people who would be in politics who have seen what - there are good people who would be in politics who have seen what is- in politics who have seen what is happening — in politics who have seen what is happening and _ in politics who have seen what is happening and wide. _ in politics who have seen what is happening and wide. it- in politics who have seen what is happening and wide. it starts- happening and wide. it starts online — happening and wide. it starts online. people _ happening and wide. it starts online. people organise - happening and wide. it startsi online. people organise anger happening and wide. it starts- online. people organise anger and that happens— online. people organise anger and that happens in— online. people organise anger and that happens in the _ online. people organise anger and that happens in the physical- online. people organise anger andi that happens in the physical world. when _ that happens in the physical world. when susan — that happens in the physical world. when susan cole _ that happens in the physical world. when susan cole ran _ that happens in the physical world. when susan cole ran for— that happens in the physical world. when susan cole ran for the - that happens in the physical world. | when susan cole ran for the mayor, she said _ when susan cole ran for the mayor, she said she — when susan cole ran for the mayor, she said she was— when susan cole ran for the mayor, she said she was sometimes- when susan cole ran for the mayor, she said she was sometimes afraid, j she said she was sometimes afraid, she said she was sometimes afraid, she is— she said she was sometimes afraid, she is travelling _ she said she was sometimes afraid, she is travelling round _ she said she was sometimes afraid, she is travelling round london - she said she was sometimes afraid, she is travelling round london and i she is travelling round london and someone — she is travelling round london and someone might— she is travelling round london and someone might go— she is travelling round london and someone might go to _ she is travelling round london and someone might go to her, - she is travelling round london and someone might go to her, what i she is travelling round london and - someone might go to her, what should she do? _ someone might go to her, what should she do? men _ someone might go to her, what should she do? men came _ someone might go to her, what should she do? men came to _ someone might go to her, what should she do? men came to my— someone might go to her, what should she do? men came to my house - someone might go to her, what should she do? men came to my house and i someone might go to her, what should. she do? men came to my house and the police _ she do? men came to my house and the police had _ she do? men came to my house and the police had to— she do? men came to my house and the police had to get— she do? men came to my house and the police had to get involved. _ she do? men came to my house and the police had to get involved. we _ she do? men came to my house and the police had to get involved. we have - police had to get involved. we have made _ police had to get involved. we have made politics— police had to get involved. we have made politics about _ police had to get involved. we have made politics about personal- made politics about personal attacks, _ made politics about personal attacks, so _ made politics about personal attacks, so people _ made politics about personal attacks, so people attack. i made politics about personall attacks, so people attack. we made politics about personal attacks, so people attack. we have no idea what _ attacks, so people attack. we have no idea what was _ attacks, so people attack. we have no idea what was thrown _ attacks, so people attack. we have no idea what was thrown at - attacks, so people attack. we have no idea what was thrown at nigel. no idea what was thrown at nigel farage, whether it was actually dangerous. the fact of it is something that's unsettling. it is. i ttoin to something that's unsettling. it is. i going to say _ something that's unsettling. it is. i going to say something - something that's unsettling. it is. i going to say something very carefully, here. it is a taxable, right — carefully, here. it is a taxable, right. protest is a legitimate part of the _ right. protest is a legitimate part of the politicaljourney. progress we've _ of the politicaljourney. progress we've made in this country and around — we've made in this country and around the _ we've made in this country and around the world has often been ushered — around the world has often been ushered in — around the world has often been ushered in by people making protest but it should be intelligent, informed and properly targeted. it must _ informed and properly targeted. it must think about how it lands in the public— must think about how it lands in the public domain. protest is important. what _ public domain. protest is important. what happened around nigel wasn't acceptable, not an intelligent kind of protest. i can't pretend that he hasn't _ of protest. i can't pretend that he hasn't fed — of protest. i can't pretend that he hasn't fed into a culture of anger that ends— hasn't fed into a culture of anger that ends up manifesting in this kind of— that ends up manifesting in this kind of aggressive politics. there's more developments _ kind of aggressive politics. there's more developments on _ kind of aggressive politics. there's more developments on the - kind of aggressive politics. there's more developments on the nigel. more developments on the nigel farage story tonight question what yes, a 28—year—old man has been arrested in barnsley after allegedly throwing items at the open top bus that nigel farage was campaigning on. that nigel farage was campaigning on, ., ., that nigel farage was campaigning on. . ., ., ~ ., ., on. nigel farage talked about how there was wet _ on. nigel farage talked about how there was wet concrete _ on. nigel farage talked about how there was wet concrete in - on. nigel farage talked about how there was wet concrete in a - on. nigel farage talked about how there was wet concrete in a cup i there was wet concrete in a cup phone at him and how stones were thrown at the bus. last week there was the milkshake thrown at him. he spoke at a rally tonight and spoke how the democratic process is under threat and that there was mob violence today, that young students were talking about how their minds have been polluted at university and he says he will not surrender to the mob. james cleverly, home secretary, said there is no place for intimidation and he thanked the police for their action. almost identical by yvette cooper who hopes to be home secretary, saying she was appalled by the attack on nigel farage. picking up on what was said, i spoke to mps in the former parliament. i've been shown one death threat that one of those then mps received. that was pretty chilling. then mps were talking about how parliamentary security authorities are quite good but sometimes they are worried it isn't good enough. one said to me that they had to think about whether they should pay for their own security and also threats to family members. when we talk about the culture created — when we talk about the culture created by some national leaders, farage _ created by some national leaders, farage is — created by some national leaders, farage is one of those people. bristol— farage is one of those people. bristol is — farage is one of those people. bristol is a city of 42 square miles — bristol is a city of 42 square miles. people from different backgrounds live there. the number of times— backgrounds live there. the number of times we — backgrounds live there. the number of times i've looked at how national politics— of times i've looked at how national politics frame national debates in a way that— politics frame national debates in a way that doesn't help our ability to create _ way that doesn't help our ability to create a _ way that doesn't help our ability to create a space in which people come together~ _ create a space in which people come together. this does create a feedback loop. i'm notjustifying feedback loop. i'm not justifying what _ feedback loop. i'm notjustifying what happened. you feedback loop. i'm not “ustifying what happenedh feedback loop. i'm not “ustifying what happened. feedback loop. i'm not “ustifying what hauened. ., ~ what happened. you sounded like you were licensing — what happened. you sounded like you were licensing violent _ what happened. you sounded like you were licensing violent protests - were licensing violent protests which constitute chemical assault. no, i wasn't. which constitute chemical assault. no. iwasn't— no, i wasn't. what worries me is that everyday — no, i wasn't. what worries me is that everyday i — no, i wasn't. what worries me is that everyday i talk _ no, i wasn't. what worries me is that everyday i talk about - no, i wasn't. what worries me is| that everyday i talk about mensah family being attacked because they were in politics, i'm really sad to hear you talking about. aha, were in politics, i'm really sad to hear you talking about.— hear you talking about. a total misunderstanding. _ hear you talking about. a total misunderstanding. that's - hear you talking about. a total misunderstanding. that's why| hear you talking about. a total| misunderstanding. that's why i hear you talking about. a total - misunderstanding. that's why i said i misunderstanding. that's why i said i want _ misunderstanding. that's why i said i want to— misunderstanding. that's why i said i want to say this carefully. i am not licensing what happened at all. what _ not licensing what happened at all. what i'm _ not licensing what happened at all. what i'm saying is that if we want to understand what went on we have to understand what went on we have to look— to understand what went on we have to look at — to understand what went on we have to look at---— to look at... you are talking about olitics to look at... you are talking about politics rather _ to look at... you are talking about politics rather than _ to look at... you are talking about politics rather than the _ to look at... you are talking about politics rather than the act - to look at... you are talking about politics rather than the act itself. l politics rather than the act itself. it is about context. the politics rather than the act itself. it is about context.— it is about context. the real problem — it is about context. the real problem is _ it is about context. the real problem is that _ it is about context. the real problem is that you - it is about context. the real problem is that you have i it is about context. the real - problem is that you have people who have legitimised _ problem is that you have people who have legitimised attacks _ problem is that you have people who have legitimised attacks and - problem is that you have people who have legitimised attacks and we - problem is that you have people who have legitimised attacks and we arel have legitimised attacks and we are now into _ have legitimised attacks and we are now into the — have legitimised attacks and we are now into the natural _ have legitimised attacks and we are now into the natural progression. . have legitimised attacks and we are now into the natural progression. if| now into the natural progression. if you go— now into the natural progression. if you go back— now into the natural progression. if you go back to— now into the natural progression. if you go back to when _ now into the natural progression. if you go back to when cchq - now into the natural progression. if you go back to when cchq was - you go back to when cchq was attacked — you go back to when cchq was attacked by— you go back to when cchq was attacked by students, - you go back to when cchq was attacked by students, some i you go back to when cchq was i attacked by students, some said you go back to when cchq was - attacked by students, some said it isn't a _ attacked by students, some said it isn't a big — attacked by students, some said it isn't a big deal. _ attacked by students, some said it isn't a big deal, good _ attacked by students, some said it isn't a big deal, good luck- attacked by students, some said it isn't a big deal, good luck to- attacked by students, some said iti isn't a big deal, good luck to them. this is— isn't a big deal, good luck to them. this is a _ isn't a big deal, good luck to them. this is a natural— isn't a big deal, good luck to them. this is a natural progression. - isn't a big deal, good luck to them. this is a natural progression. go. this is a natural progression. go online — this is a natural progression. go online the _ this is a natural progression. go online. the number— this is a natural progression. go online. the number of— this is a natural progression. go online. the number of death- this is a natural progression. go- online. the number of death threats, rape threats — online. the number of death threats, rape threats and _ online. the number of death threats, rape threats and organised _ online. the number of death threats, rape threats and organised pile—ins. i we arejoined by we are joined by the author of a report into political violence released last month. i guess you've heard what they had to say. tell me, you were recommending and i believe that what has happened is that there are protective measures. can you explain what's been happening when people have been on the campaign trail? , ., , ., ., , people have been on the campaign trail? , ., ., , ., trail? yes, there has had to be a considerable _ trail? yes, there has had to be a considerable uplift _ trail? yes, there has had to be a considerable uplift in _ trail? yes, there has had to be a considerable uplift in the - considerable uplift in the investment in protecting first of all members of parliament through their time in recent months, given their time in recent months, given the rise in the threat level facing mps, primarily triggered by the unrest over briton's position over the gaza conflict. that has now been translated into the election campaign where all candidates now have the access to use protective measures from the police, which was in place also in 2019. but it is clearly really need it now. there are... there have been those unfortunate incidents concerning nigel farage. there are also a number of mps and candidates across the country who are facing very real threats. this is absolutely the kind of thing that's going to potentially put many good people off from coming into serve their communities, unless we can, all of us, look at one, what are the physical protective measures that have to be put in place but also, what is the culture that we need to foster that means we can actually celebrate and uphold parliamentary democracy rather than seeing it being demeaned in the ways that too often it has been in recent months and years. in a that too often it has been in recent months and years.— months and years. in a sense you have not months and years. in a sense you have got legitimate _ months and years. in a sense you have got legitimate protest - months and years. in a sense you have got legitimate protest that l months and years. in a sense you| have got legitimate protest that is potentially injurious to people's health and well—being. are there candidates who are under close protection?— candidates who are under close protection? there certainly have been reports _ protection? there certainly have been reports that _ protection? there certainly have been reports that there - protection? there certainly have been reports that there have - protection? there certainly have i been reports that there have been mps who have placed in the extraordinary situation of having the close protection security officers, which, for all the time we've been in politics, have only been available to very senior ministers and security related roles, the defence secretary and home secretary. there are candidates and mps who are not able to travel on public transport. wes streeting, the labour shadow health secretary said he was among those. a friend of mine who is a candidate who i won't name had someone arrested for a death threat. that is unfortunately becoming a relatively commonplace thing, now. flan becoming a relatively commonplace thin , now. ., becoming a relatively commonplace thin , now. . , becoming a relatively commonplace thin, now. . , ., thing, now. can i put to you something? _ thing, now. can i put to you something? obviously - thing, now. can i put to you something? obviously we i thing, now. can i put to you . something? obviously we were thing, now. can i put to you _ something? obviously we were hearing from our guests. when nigel farage in the heat of the moment says that democracy is under threat, do you think this is hyperbole or essentially do you recognise that actually what he's talking about is proportionate?— proportionate? well, i wish we weren't placing _ proportionate? well, i wish we weren't placing nigel— proportionate? well, i wish we weren't placing nigel farage i proportionate? well, i wish we weren't placing nigel farage inj proportionate? well, i wish we - weren't placing nigel farage in the position that he is giving that message but actually he is right. he isn't the first person to sayed. the has rightly convened a defending democracy task for switch labour has been constructively engaging in —— democracy task force. this is affecting democratic freedoms. if you are in a situation where candidates and mps are genuinely fearing for their physical safety, which many are, and you have the situation that we had in the commons a few months ago where the speaker changed proceedings because of the fear of intimidation and physical threats to mps, that's a clear impact and erosion of our democracy and we need to understand better, i think, where the absolute sacrosanct right to protest is too often being abused and becoming the kind of physical threat of intimidation and that implied threat of force and menace, which isn't legitimate and is affecting how people live their lives and can affect how people vote. we have to understand that thatis vote. we have to understand that that is not acceptable. thank you very much forjoining us tonight. this afternoon, hunter biden was found guilty in a delaware court on three charges in his gun trial. his father, the president, has vowed not to pardon his son, but now there could be electoral jeapardy for both presidential candidates because of convictions. mick mulvaney, former white house chief of staff under donald trump, can talk to us from florida. thank you very much forjoining us. firstly, the first thing to say of course is that this is a personal tragedy for a family being played out in front of millions of people. thatin out in front of millions of people. that in a sense is tough enough without the political dimension. it is and i think a lot of americans are sympathetic to what the biden family is going through. at the same time, otherfolk are family is going through. at the same time, other folk are wondering why this case did not plead to some sort of lesser offence so it didn't have to be trotted out in public. the jury to be trotted out in public. the jury didn't spend a lot of time finding hunter biden guilty so there is a lot of questions to be asked. you are right, this is a tragic outcome, result of a terrible addiction and all too many american families have personal experiences with that in their own families and they are certainly emphasising with they are certainly emphasising with the biden family tonight. if they are certainly emphasising with the biden family tonight.— the biden family tonight. if there was any sense — the biden family tonight. if there was any sense of— the biden family tonight. if there was any sense of getting - the biden family tonight. if there j was any sense of getting political capital out of it, what do you think the calculations that donald trump is making out about the verdict? since the verdict, he has been pretty reticent.— since the verdict, he has been re reticent. . ., ., , pretty reticent. yeah, as have many republicans — pretty reticent. yeah, as have many republicans for _ pretty reticent. yeah, as have many republicans for the _ pretty reticent. yeah, as have many republicans for the reasons - pretty reticent. yeah, as have many republicans for the reasons i - pretty reticent. yeah, as have many republicans for the reasons i just i republicans for the reasons ijust mentioned. keep in mind, donald trump is one of those people who has addiction in the past in his family, his brother died of complications related to his alcoholism so it strikes donald trump's familyjust as much as it does many others. you have seen republicans be extraordinarily quiet on this topic in the last 12 hours since the decision was handed down. honestly, kirsty, think of anybody is going to try and make political hay out of this, it is probablyjoe biden and it is probably understandable. you can expect him at some point, possibly in ourfirst can expect him at some point, possibly in our first debate, to say something along the lines of no one is above the law, look at me, i could have pardoned my son but i didn't and that is going to be a very powerful message to people. again, i don't think either party is going to spend a lot of time on this but if you see either side at least referring to what happened today, it is probably more likely to be democrats than republicans. oi democrats than republicans. of course, they could be a right passed in the presidential debate because one thing donald trump trump has said of courses if he was president, he would be the one to pardon hunter biden. oi he would be the one to pardon hunter biden. .., , he would be the one to pardon hunter biden. _, , ., , ., , biden. of course, that is a very trump thing — biden. of course, that is a very trump thing to _ biden. of course, that is a very trump thing to do _ biden. of course, that is a very trump thing to do. _ biden. of course, that is a very trump thing to do. keep - biden. of course, that is a very trump thing to do. keep in - biden. of course, that is a very i trump thing to do. keep in mind, this is the first of two against hunter biden because of bigger and more substantive one is the one on tax evasion be expected to go to trial sometime in september. this is the one, it moves away from addiction and into things where hunter was getting his money, whether there was influence peddling those sorts of things i think both sides are looking more towards septemberfor sides are looking more towards september for the political impact of that trial than they were today. it doesn't surprise me donald trump said he would pardon hunter biden, he probably would.— he probably would. looking ahead, there is more _ he probably would. looking ahead, there is more jeopardy _ he probably would. looking ahead, there is more jeopardy to - he probably would. looking ahead, there is more jeopardy to be - he probably would. looking ahead, there is more jeopardy to be made | he probably would. looking ahead, l there is more jeopardy to be made in there is morejeopardy to be made in political income tax, donald trump is facing problems which could be highlighted, what we have now is we haven't even got the start of the presidential campaign but actually there has been quite a lot of high drama? , , drama? there is. keep in mind, we have pretty — drama? there is. keep in mind, we have pretty much — drama? there is. keep in mind, we have pretty much known _ drama? there is. keep in mind, we have pretty much known these - drama? there is. keep in mind, wel have pretty much known these other two candidates for a long time now but these will be historically the longest races in the history of our country, neither of these gentlemen have actually been formally nominated yet and i would abates start in 16 days i believe so two weeks from this thursday and they will actually be debating, having formal debates, before they are formally the candidates. itjust goes to show you, kirsty, that politics here is almost nonstop, almost 2041 was a day, 365 days a year forever. almost 2041 was a day, 365 days a yearforever. but it almost 2041 was a day, 365 days a year forever. but it also goes to show how already familiar with these candidates the voters are. there is very little i think folk can learn out of a conviction from donald trump, little they can learn from a conviction of hunter biden for short and maybe even a little they can learn from the debates, we will still be watching, it will still be must see television but i'm not sure it will move the needle very much politically. the country is still very divided and we expect to see that in the results in the november election. ~ w' that in the results in the november election. ~ ~ ., , that in the results in the november election. ~ . , ., that in the results in the november election. . , ., , election. mick mulvaney, thanks very much forjoining _ election. mick mulvaney, thanks very much forjoining us _ election. mick mulvaney, thanks very much forjoining us tonight. - what much forjoining us tonight. the tory manifesto was not — was a marmalade dropper — it had been spread liberally over the nation's toast for days. everything from the further cut in national insurance to rebooting, literally, national service after 64 years. but was there anything to surprise? nick, was there at the launch. this price anyway was it was at silverstone.— this price anyway was it was at silverstone. ~ , ,., , , ., silverstone. absolutely, you enter that and go _ silverstone. absolutely, you enter that and go into _ silverstone. absolutely, you enter that and go into this _ silverstone. absolutely, you enter that and go into this smart - silverstone. absolutely, you enter that and go into this smart hotel. that and go into this smart hotel right by the finishing line, you cross this bridge over the track and then you are in the conference centre right by the track—side and after the speech by the prime minister, we were having a briefing about how you're going to pay for this and there was that £12 billion in welfare cuts. a cargo is by! and then there is another 6 billion in tax cuts. cargoes by! it was a racing car and it was brad pitt, he was filming there. did racing car and it was brad pitt, he was filming there.— racing car and it was brad pitt, he was filming there. did they not know there was a — was filming there. did they not know there was a movie _ was filming there. did they not know there was a movie being _ was filming there. did they not know there was a movie being shot? - was filming there. did they not know there was a movie being shot? a - there was a movie being shot? movie being shot there, brad pitt actually on the racecourse but we couldn't see him because he was moving quite fast but before that, we did have the speech by the prime minister in what looked like pretty drab conference hall but it was at the racing track and he talked as you say about how if they win the election, the conservatives would introduce that third cut in employee national insurance, another 2p cut, that had allowed them to say they have halved it. what we weren't expecting, what we did get, a complete abolition of national insurance for self employed people up insurance for self employed people up to profits of £50,000. for some in the conservative party, that is not enough. why didn't you touch inheritance tax? why didn't you pull out of the european court of human rights? but at the event, it was loyalists, cabinet ministers and i caught up with a of them. theresa may's choice to be a future leader of the conservative party. how would 17 billion of tax cuts do that? surely the sort of compassionate conservative you're about is much more than a bunch of tax cuts. well, nick, iadmire your ingenious question, but there is absolutely no vacancy. i think you saw today just how ambitious rishi is for the future of our country, but also that he has backed up that ambition with fully funded plans as to how we achieve this. and i think whether you look at the tax cuts that he has set out for every stage of our life, from tax cuts for families with young children through to people of working age, through to the self—employed, through to people trying to buy their own home for the first time, through to that really important protection for pensioners, a protection, incidentally, that labour will not give them... i think you see here a really bold plan for how we see the future of our country in terms of tax cuts. james cleverly. nicholas. you talking about your border policy, not specific on the number of flights that will go to rwanda. no specific commitment to pull out of the european convention on human rights. aren't you pulling your punches? we've committed that if we get a conservative government under rishi sunak, there will be a regular drumbeat of flights and those flights will only stop as and when the boats stop. that's what we're committing to. that's what we're explicit about. and in all those areas there is a vacuum where labour party policy should be. keir starmer is saying actually the newjeremy corbyn is rishi sunak. he's describing this as a jeremy corbyn—style manifesto. loads of stuff put in the wheelbarrow, no credible way for how it's paid for. so what do you say about this idea that rishi sunak is the newjeremy corbyn? i think that's a new level of desperation by a labour party that has nothing positive to say about its own agenda. all we've heard from labour politicians so far are criticisms, sometimes sadly personal, of the conservative party and conservative party politicians. what is distinctive about what labour is doing on education? what labour is doing on housing? nothing. michael gove there and that was vicky atkinson at the beginning, the health secretary. i definitely spotted brad pitt in the background, definitely! let's talk about this manifesto, rachel. was it a gripping read? i manifesto, rachel. was it a gripping read? ., �* manifesto, rachel. was it a gripping read? . �* ., ., read? i haven't read it all. there is absolutely _ read? i haven't read it all. there is absolutely no _ read? i haven't read it all. there is absolutely no human - read? i haven't read it all. there is absolutely no human beings . read? i haven't read it all. there i is absolutely no human beings are photographed in it, usually these things are spattered with photographs of the leader, the supreme leader. rishi sunak is completely... absolutely nothing. no image of the prime minister at all. it is interesting that there are tax cuts, 12 billion i think you said, nick, and also an increase... actually 17 billion. but nick, and also an increase... actually 17 billion.— actually 17 billion. but the costings _ actually 17 billion. but the costings of _ actually 17 billion. but the costings of it, _ actually 17 billion. but the costings of it, where - actually 17 billion. but the costings of it, where the i actually 17 billion. but the - costings of it, where the money is coming from, it is down by the back of the sofa, making things more efficient. it is all those old things people trot out like when talking about the nhs, we will cut the managers. but then it struck me that the labour party has also committed to no tax rises so it is in exactly the same position. where is the money coming from? but tonall , is the money coming from? but tonally, do _ is the money coming from? but tonally, do you _ is the money coming from? but tonally, do you think this was the right thing to have a snap election? do think they were already for it? no. i think that if you are going to be a lucky general and call a snap election, you at least need to have your troops manning the passes and your troops manning the passes and you need to have a plan and a day after and all those things and i think rishi sunak was just after and all those things and i think rishi sunak wasjust in after and all those things and i think rishi sunak was just in love with the idea of spiking reform's guns and all it did was flush out nigel farage to lead them against the tories. 50 nigel farage to lead them against the tories. , ., ., �* nigel farage to lead them against the tories. ., �* , ., the tories. so you won't be voting for the prime _ the tories. so you won't be voting for the prime minister? _ the tories. so you won't be voting for the prime minister? i - the tories. so you won't be voting for the prime minister? i haven't. for the prime minister? i haven't decided a floating _ for the prime minister? i haven't decided a floating voter. - for the prime minister? i haven't decided a floating voter. can - for the prime minister? i haven't i decided a floating voter. can return to electoral — decided a floating voter. can return to electoral possibilities _ decided a floating voter. can return to electoral possibilities and - decided a floating voter. can return to electoral possibilities and the i to electoral possibilities and the way lots of people have parachuted into constituencies, labour and tory on both sides. you are the two times mayor of bristol, what happened to you when you thought you would actually like to be a candidate?— like to be a candidate? basically i didn't tet like to be a candidate? basically i didn't get selected _ like to be a candidate? basically i didn't get selected it _ like to be a candidate? basically i didn't get selected it is _ didn't get selected it is extraordinary, - didn't get selected it is extraordinary, two - didn't get selected it is i extraordinary, two times didn't get selected if 3 extraordinary, two times mayor, a star in the labour party. i wouldn't call myself — star in the labour party. i wouldn't call myself a _ star in the labour party. i wouldn't call myself a star. _ star in the labour party. i wouldn't call myself a star. there _ star in the labour party. i wouldn't call myself a star. there is - star in the labour party. i wouldn't call myself a star. there is a - call myself a star. there is a process, _ call myself a star. there is a process, i_ call myself a star. there is a process, i won't pretend i wasn't disappointed, it would be no doubt true if— disappointed, it would be no doubt true if i _ disappointed, it would be no doubt true if i was to say that. i'm here now— true if i was to say that. i'm here now as _ true if i was to say that. i'm here now as a — true if i was to say that. i'm here now as a pundit on your sofa instead of running _ now as a pundit on your sofa instead of running for parliament. but now as a pundit on your sofa instead of running for parliament.— of running for parliament. but did ou have of running for parliament. but did you have a _ of running for parliament. but did you have a conversation - of running for parliament. but did you have a conversation with - of running for parliament. but did you have a conversation with keir| you have a conversation with keir starmer about it? he must have known you wanted to stand, he must have seen the credentials by the fact that you have been running bristol, as it were crisply well, i didn't have a direct conversation about it, no. , ., , , , have a direct conversation about it, no. ,, _ no. there is a process whereby the -a no. there is a process whereby the party selects _ no. there is a process whereby the party selects its — no. there is a process whereby the party selects its candidates - no. there is a process whereby the party selects its candidates and i party selects its candidates and make _ party selects its candidates and make their decisions at local and national— make their decisions at local and national level and i have sat here so self—evidently i'm not... is so self-evidently i'm not... is there so self—evidently i'm not... there an so self—evidently i'm not... is there an issue about candidate selection? you talk about diane abbott, whoever, is there an issue with candidate selection?- with candidate selection? there's been a discussion _ with candidate selection? there's been a discussion but _ with candidate selection? there's been a discussion but there - with candidate selection? there's been a discussion but there is - with candidate selection? there's been a discussion but there is a i been a discussion but there is a fantastic— been a discussion but there is a fantastic team out now running for selection. — fantastic team out now running for selection. i— fantastic team out now running for selection, i have been working very hard for— selection, i have been working very hard for an— selection, i have been working very hard for an amazing candidate in bristol, — hard for an amazing candidate in bristol, we — hard for an amazing candidate in bristol, we have some excellent people _ bristol, we have some excellent people coming forward. i'm not going to pretend _ people coming forward. i'm not going to pretend i_ people coming forward. i'm not going to pretend i am... don't have a degree — to pretend i am... don't have a degree of— to pretend i am... don't have a degree of disappointment, of course i do, degree of disappointment, of course i do. i_ degree of disappointment, of course i do. i put _ degree of disappointment, of course i do, i put myself forward. but it isn't _ i do, i put myself forward. but it isn't the — i do, i put myself forward. but it isn't the first time i haven't been selected — isn't the first time i haven't been selected by someone, it won't be the last, selected by someone, it won't be the last. i_ selected by someone, it won't be the last. iwon't— selected by someone, it won't be the last, i won't get all bent out of shape — last, i won't get all bent out of shape about it.— last, i won't get all bent out of shape about it. shaun bailey, tell me about what _ shape about it. shaun bailey, tell me about what you _ shape about it. shaun bailey, tell me about what you feel _ shape about it. shaun bailey, tell me about what you feel about - shape about it. shaun bailey, tell| me about what you feel about this whole campaign? i me about what you feel about this whole campaign?— me about what you feel about this whole campaign? i think the campaign has had some — whole campaign? i think the campaign has had some notable _ whole campaign? i think the campaign has had some notable highs _ whole campaign? i think the campaign has had some notable highs and - whole campaign? i think the campaign has had some notable highs and lows. j has had some notable highs and lows. ithink— has had some notable highs and lows. i think there _ has had some notable highs and lows. i think there is — has had some notable highs and lows. i think there is things _ has had some notable highs and lows. i think there is things they _ has had some notable highs and lows. i think there is things they could - i think there is things they could have _ i think there is things they could have done — i think there is things they could have done better. _ i think there is things they could have done better. like - i think there is things they could have done better.— i think there is things they could | have done better._ for have done better. like what? for instance today, _ have done better. like what? for instance today, probably - have done better. like what? for| instance today, probably wouldn't have launched _ instance today, probably wouldn't have launched at _ instance today, probably wouldn't have launched at silverstone - instance today, probably wouldn't have launched at silverstone with| have launched at silverstone with all the _ have launched at silverstone with all the noise _ have launched at silverstone with all the noise will— have launched at silverstone with all the noise will stop _ have launched at silverstone with all the noise will stop it— have launched at silverstone with all the noise will stop it is- have launched at silverstone with all the noise will stop it is little i all the noise will stop it is little things— all the noise will stop it is little things like _ all the noise will stop it is little things like that _ all the noise will stop it is little things like that that _ all the noise will stop it is little things like that that make - all the noise will stop it is little i things like that that make people think. _ things like that that make people think. what— things like that that make people think. what is— things like that that make people think, what is going _ things like that that make people think, what is going on _ things like that that make people think, what is going on here? - things like that that make people| think, what is going on here? the clear— think, what is going on here? the clear thing — think, what is going on here? the clear thing is— think, what is going on here? the clear thing is there _ think, what is going on here? the clear thing is there is _ think, what is going on here? the clear thing is there is some - clear thing is there is some direction _ clear thing is there is some direction here, _ clear thing is there is some direction here, talking - clear thing is there is some. direction here, talking about repairing _ direction here, talking about repairing the _ direction here, talking about repairing the economy, - direction here, talking about- repairing the economy, delivering tax cuts _ repairing the economy, delivering tax cuts which _ repairing the economy, delivering tax cuts which people _ repairing the economy, delivering tax cuts which people will- repairing the economy, delivering tax cuts which people will want i repairing the economy, deliveringj tax cuts which people will want on the back— tax cuts which people will want on the back of— tax cuts which people will want on the back of the _ tax cuts which people will want on the back of the cost _ tax cuts which people will want on the back of the cost of— tax cuts which people will want on the back of the cost of living - the back of the cost of living crisis — the back of the cost of living crisis which _ the back of the cost of living crisis which is _ the back of the cost of living crisis which is very— the back of the cost of living crisis which is very real - the back of the cost of living crisis which is very real for l the back of the cost of living - crisis which is very real for most people — crisis which is very real for most people so— crisis which is very real for most people so i_ crisis which is very real for most people so i think— crisis which is very real for most people so i think he _ crisis which is very real for most people so i think he is _ crisis which is very real for most people so i think he is heading i crisis which is very real for mostl people so i think he is heading in the right— people so i think he is heading in the right direction. _ people so i think he is heading in the right direction. but _ people so i think he is heading in the right direction. but when - people so i think he is heading in the right direction. but when youj the right direction. but when you talk about— the right direction. but when you talk about a _ the right direction. but when you talk about a manifesto, - the right direction. but when you talk about a manifesto, the - the right direction. but when you talk about a manifesto, the reall talk about a manifesto, the real thing _ talk about a manifesto, the real thing is — talk about a manifesto, the real thing is is — talk about a manifesto, the real thing is is it— talk about a manifesto, the real thing is is it credible _ talk about a manifesto, the real thing is is it credible and - talk about a manifesto, the real thing is is it credible and will. talk about a manifesto, the real thing is is it credible and will it. thing is is it credible and will it stand — thing is is it credible and will it stand up— thing is is it credible and will it stand up to _ thing is is it credible and will it stand up to labour's _ thing is is it credible and will it| stand up to labour's manifesto thing is is it credible and will it- stand up to labour's manifesto and heres— stand up to labour's manifesto and here's thingm _ stand up to labour's manifesto and heresthingm i_ stand up to labour's manifesto and here's thing... i think— stand up to labour's manifesto and here's thing... i think labour's- here's thing... i think labour's manifesto _ here's thing... i think labour's manifesto will— here's thing... i think labour's manifesto will say— here's thing... i think labour's manifesto will say all- here's thing... i think labour's manifesto will say all the - here's thing... i think labour's manifesto will say all the rightj manifesto will say all the right things— manifesto will say all the right things but— manifesto will say all the right things but what _ manifesto will say all the right things but what will— manifesto will say all the right things but what will be - manifesto will say all the right things but what will be really. things but what will be really important _ things but what will be really important is _ things but what will be really important is what _ things but what will be really important is what it - things but what will be really- important is what it doesn't say. for instance. _ important is what it doesn't say. for instance, last _ important is what it doesn't say. for instance, last night- important is what it doesn't say. for instance, last night it - important is what it doesn't say. for instance, last night it neverl for instance, last night it never talked — for instance, last night it never talked about _ for instance, last night it never talked about the _ for instance, last night it never talked about the fact _ for instance, last night it never talked about the fact they- for instance, last night it never. talked about the fact they wanted for instance, last night it never- talked about the fact they wanted to tet talked about the fact they wanted to get rid _ talked about the fact they wanted to get rid of— talked about the fact they wanted to get rid of the — talked about the fact they wanted to get rid of the bank— talked about the fact they wanted to get rid of the bank of _ talked about the fact they wanted to get rid of the bank of england - talked about the fact they wanted to get rid of the bank of england and ii get rid of the bank of england and i think people — get rid of the bank of england and i think people who _ get rid of the bank of england and i think people who are _ get rid of the bank of england and i think people who are really - think people who are really interested _ think people who are really interested in— think people who are really interested in politics - think people who are really interested in politics will. think people who are really i interested in politics will say, think people who are really - interested in politics will say, ok, you have — interested in politics will say, ok, you have said _ interested in politics will say, ok, you have said that _ interested in politics will say, ok, you have said that i _ interested in politics will say, ok, you have said that i stuff, - interested in politics will say, ok, you have said that i stuff, what i interested in politics will say, ok, | you have said that i stuff, what are you have said that i stuff, what are you keeping — you have said that i stuff, what are you keeping promise? _ you have said that i stuff, what are you keeping promise? the - you have said that i stuff, what are you keeping promise? the real- you have said that i stuff, what are - you keeping promise? the real debate is who— you keeping promise? the real debate is who is— you keeping promise? the real debate is who is more — you keeping promise? the real debate is who is more credible... _ you keeping promise? the real debate is who is more credible... can - you keeping promise? the real debate is who is more credible... can i - you keeping promise? the real debate is who is more credible. . ._ is who is more credible... can i say something — is who is more credible... can i say something about _ is who is more credible... can i say something about what _ is who is more credible... can i say something about what is _ is who is more credible... can i say something about what is not - is who is more credible... can i say something about what is not said i is who is more credible... can i say| something about what is not said on that front? first, let's leave the maths to the manifesto. i did a search on language in here for local government. you would think from this manifesto that we were not in a situation where one in five council leaders and chief executives were not talking about going bankrupt within the next two years. what we are facing at the moment with the demise of local government is a collapse... demise of local government is a collapse- - -_ demise of local government is a collase... collapse... let me say something. can i collapse... let me say something. can i finish — collapse... let me say something. can i finish my _ collapse... let me say something. can i finish my line? _ collapse... let me say something. can i finish my line? at _ collapse... let me say something. can i finish my line? at regional. can i finish my line? at regional government. — can i finish my line? at regional government, i— can i finish my line? at regional government, i sit _ can i finish my line? at regional government, i sit on _ can i finish my line? at regional government, i sit on the - can i finish my line? at regional| government, i sit on the london assembly — government, i sit on the london assembly. many local government run quite badly— assembly. many local government run quite badly and that is why some are in this— quite badly and that is why some are in this position. i actually would -ive in this position. i actually would give more — in this position. i actually would give more money to local government but let's_ give more money to local government but let's bear in mind, this is a national— but let's bear in mind, this is a national election.— but let's bear in mind, this is a national election. shaun, do you think the conservatives - national election. shaun, do you think the conservatives are - national election. shaun, do you i think the conservatives are heading for defeat? ii think the conservatives are heading for defeat? ,., , ., think the conservatives are heading for defeat? , ., ., , for defeat? if the polls are to be believed, they _ for defeat? if the polls are to be believed, they got _ for defeat? if the polls are to be believed, they got it _ for defeat? if the polls are to be believed, they got it wrong - for defeat? if the polls are to be | believed, they got it wrong about brexit _ believed, they got it wrong about brexit and other things, yes we are. i brexit and other things, yes we are. i would _ brexit and other things, yes we are. i would be _ brexit and other things, yes we are. i would be a — brexit and other things, yes we are. i would be a lunatic... i would be a lunatic— i would be a lunatic... i would be a lunatic if— i would be a lunatic... i would be a lunatic if i— i would be a lunatic... i would be a lunatic if i sat _ i would be a lunatic... i would be a lunatic if i sat here and said we went— lunatic if i sat here and said we went behind, clearly we are. after 14 years _ went behind, clearly we are. after 14 years of — went behind, clearly we are. after 14 years of government, you will always _ 14 years of government, you will always find a uphill battle but the idea it _ always find a uphill battle but the idea it is — always find a uphill battle but the idea it is a — always find a uphill battle but the idea it is a foregone conclusion, i don't _ idea it is a foregone conclusion, i don't agree — idea it is a foregone conclusion, i don't agree with and we have yet to scrutinise _ don't agree with and we have yet to scrutinise the labour party. guy don't agree with and we have yet to scrutinise the labour party.- scrutinise the labour party. guy go back to my — scrutinise the labour party. guy go back to my point — scrutinise the labour party. guy go back to my point i _ scrutinise the labour party. guy go back to my point i started - scrutinise the labour party. guy go back to my point i started there? i | back to my point i started there? i don't think it always registers how serious this crisis in local government is. local government is notjust a collection of disconnected services, it is a convenor of
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