former first minister's behaviour. nicola sturgeon was arrested. the party former chief executive was charged with embezzlement. you are a very well respected politician who has been around the snp for a long time. would you understand if voters wanted to punish you at this election for all of that which has gone on? we election for all of that which has one on? ~ ., ., ., ., gone on? we have had a tough time, laura. i gone on? we have had a tough time, laura- i think — gone on? we have had a tough time, laura. i think that _ gone on? we have had a tough time, laura. i think that has _ gone on? we have had a tough time, laura. i think that has been - laura. i think that has been acknowledged, i've acknowledged that on a constant basis since i became first minister, just about seven weeks ago. i have been very candid about the fact that i recognise that the snp has had that tough time, and myjob is to rebuild the trust between the public of scotland and the scottish national party. that is what i'm focused on as first minister, i have coming to an election campaign very quickly after becoming first minister. i have always acknowledged this in my representation of those who have chosen me to go to parliament, that you have got to work constantly to build the trust that you experience with memos of the public, but exactly what i will do us a leader of the scottish national party, does the first minister of scotland. lets talk about if— the first minister of scotland. lets talk about if voters _ the first minister of scotland. lets talk about if voters come trust some of the promises you are making this time round. your manifesto says if you win a majority of scottish seats in the general election, you would push again for a referendum on scottish independence. but the tories have said no, the courts have said the snp can't do that on its own, and just a couple of days ago keir starmer, the labour leader, also said he would not talk about it. you are making a promise, again, you would not be able to keep. i you would not be able to keep. i think this is in the hands of the people of scotland, to be honest. it's a deeply democratic question. in 2021, the people scotland elected a parliament that was committed to holding an independence referendum, and which supported independence. essentially, the united kingdom government has not enabled that view, that expression to be put into democratic effect. what i'm saying in this election is that if people in this election is that if people in scotland want us to progress on the arguments about independence, if they want scotland to be an independent country, they have got to support the scottish national party, is the only means of ensuring that can come about. we cannot allow the westminster political parties to deny the people of scotland their democratic rights, and their democratic rights, and their democratic opportunity, to decide their own constitutional future. because that is a fundamental point at the heart of our democracy. the fundamental _ at the heart of our democracy. the fundamental point, i know you don't like it, is that westminster has the power to say no to going any further along that road. keir starmer and rishi sunak have both said repeatedly that they will not talk about it. so your promise to voters in this election is a promise you would not be able to keep. and that is your decision to put it front and centre of your manifesto. it is your decision to put it front and centre of your manifesto.- centre of your manifesto. it is, because i _ centre of your manifesto. it is, because i think _ centre of your manifesto. it is, because i think it _ centre of your manifesto. it is, because i think it is _ centre of your manifesto. it is, because i think it is an - centre of your manifesto. it is, l because i think it is an essential solution to the issues people face in their lives today. if you look at the challenges of public spending cuts which you have talked about on this programme, the devastating effect of brexit on our country and our economy, and the impact on the cost of living. these are all issues that have been delivered by westminster, all problems created by westminster, all problems created by westminster decision—making, forcing is out of the european union against the will of the people of scotland, and in the prolonging of public spending cuts, which is what the labour party will do when they come to office. my answer to that is to make sure that decisions about the future of scotland are made in scotland, for scotland. that can only come about if people are prepared to vote for that, in the forthcoming general election. and to give us the electoral support and political support that will enable us to deliver a referendum on independence, because that is the secure route of ensuring that people scotland are able to decide on their own constitutional future. and scotland are able to decide on their own constitutionalfuture. and be able to address the devastating impact of austerity and brexit, and the cost of living, which are really causing damage in scottish society. everybody watching, particularly in scotland, will know you repeatedly promised to do this when you had a majority of mps in scotland for many years, you have power in holyrood in scottish parliament for many years and it's not something you been able to deliver thus far. you are making the same promise again. you say this is about democracy, if you don't get a majority of scottish seats in this election, will you accept that means it is the will of the scottish people that they don't want to have another independence referendum? i’m another independence referendum? i“n not going to prejudge the outcome of an election which is in 12 days' time. ., ., ., time. hang on, you can't have it both wave _ time. hang on, you can't have it both ways. you _ time. hang on, you can't have it both ways. you are _ time. hang on, you can't have it both ways. you are saying - time. hang on, you can't have it both ways. you are saying if- time. hang on, you can't have it both ways. you are saying if you have a majority you will do this, but if you don't have a majority, they're not answer the part of a question. if you don't have a majority, will you accept that as the scottish electorate telling you they don't want to pursue independence right now? parliament was elected in _ independence right now? parliament was elected in 2021 _ independence right now? parliament was elected in 2021 with _ independence right now? parliament was elected in 2021 with a _ independence right now? parliament was elected in 2021 with a majority l was elected in 2021 with a majority of members for a five year term, committed to the delivery of a referendum on independence and delivering scottish independence if that was supported in a referendum. i think that democratic mandate from the people of scotland has got to be delivered. i think this election is an opportunity for us to advance those arguments. but it's crystal clear the people in scotland have expressed a preference to determine their own constitutional future. i think westminster should remove the obstacles that are stopping scotland from having a choice. but obstacles that are stopping scotland from having a choice.— from having a choice. but that was in 2021. there — from having a choice. but that was in 2021. there is _ from having a choice. but that was in 2021. there is about _ from having a choice. but that was in 2021. there is about to - from having a choice. but that was in 2021. there is about to be - from having a choice. but that was in 2021. there is about to be a - from having a choice. but that was in 2021. there is about to be a big | in 2021. there is about to be a big vote in 202a. if you lose support of this general election, do you accept that will mean that you are losing support for independence? that is surely the simple democratic logic. well, the democratic logic is that the people of scotland have had their democratic well thwarted since 2021. i invite people in scotland, in this election, a week on thursday, to make sure they exercise their view and their voice to make sure we have that strongest demonstration possible of the support that is necessary to deliver scottish independence, to make sure that westminster stops blocking the democratic aspirations of the people of scotland. fin democratic aspirations of the people of scotland. . ., ,., , ., of scotland. on a final point, you were education _ of scotland. on a final point, you were education secretary - of scotland. on a final point, you were education secretary in - of scotland. on a final point, you were education secretary in one | of scotland. on a final point, you. were education secretary in one of the manyjobs you have done in the scottish administration. under your party, scottish education has slid down the international rankings, to the disappointment of many people. but we talked a lot on our programme about what happens with children, phones in the classroom, bridget phillipson said she will make sure that head teachers in england keep phones out of schools if she wins as part of the labour party at to selection. the scottish government has guidance coming on this shortly. would you give schools a similar instruction, should head teachers keep phones out of scottish classrooms? taste keep phones out of scottish classrooms?— keep phones out of scottish classrooms? ~ ., ., ., ~' , classrooms? we are looking very carefully at _ classrooms? we are looking very carefully at this _ classrooms? we are looking very carefully at this issue _ classrooms? we are looking very carefully at this issue because i classrooms? we are looking very carefully at this issue because asj carefully at this issue because as your interview with bridget phillipson demonstrated, there are a range of different perspectives. some teachers believe having phones available to young people assess the education process, others believe it is very disruptive to classroom cohesion and the cohesion of schools. there is a careful route to be constructed, and we are working closely with the education system to make sure we have firm and clear guidance in place, because we cannot have a situation where mobile phone technology is disruptive to the education process, and we must ensure that we are supporting teachers and the education profession, and making sure that the objectives we have for the education system are properly and fully realised by having a supportive environment within the classroom and a stable environment within the classroom as well.— a stable environment within the classroom as well. first minister, i think that is _ classroom as well. first minister, i think that is maybe. _ classroom as well. first minister, i think that is maybe. just _ classroom as well. first minister, i think that is maybe. just as - classroom as well. first minister, i think that is maybe. just as with i think that is maybe. just as with everybody we have had on the programme, we wish you a happy day on the campaign trail. we have been saying that to all of the politicians on the programme. great to have you with us. let's see what our panel have to say about that. scottish politics has been in flux, but in the last couple of weeks, right—wing politics has been in flux. i have to ask about nigel farage. a huge story about his attitude to nato and ukraine, many of your people and your party believe you should do more to accommodate his kind of politics, and that is the solution. i sat; accommodate his kind of politics, and that is the solution.— and that is the solution. i say to them that _ and that is the solution. i say to them that they _ and that is the solution. i say to them that they are _ and that is the solution. i say to them that they are wrong. - and that is the solution. i say to them that they are wrong. we l and that is the solution. i say to - them that they are wrong. we should have no truck with nigel farage and this right—wing populism which tries to pretend there are simple, easy solutions for the deep—rooted challenges and problems that the country house. there are no quick fixes, there are no free lunches. the kind of snake oil that nigel farage is paddling has no place in our democratic politics. his exposure now as an apologist for putin, this country's direct adversary and a threat to the security of all of us, it means he should play no part in our democratic politics. i wish we had held the election later, by which time i'm sure he would have disappeared off to america to play games with mr trump. did disappeared off to america to play games with mr trump.— disappeared off to america to play games with mr trump. did you tell rishi sunak _ games with mr trump. did you tell rishi sunak that? _ games with mr trump. did you tell rishi sunak that? i'm _ games with mr trump. did you tell rishi sunak that? i'm afraid - games with mr trump. did you tell rishi sunak that? i'm afraid i - games with mr trump. did you tell rishi sunak that? i'm afraid i don't have that kind _ rishi sunak that? i'm afraid i don't have that kind of— rishi sunak that? i'm afraid i don't have that kind of access. _ rishi sunak that? i'm afraid i don't have that kind of access. to - have that kind of access. to conclude the point, i hope we will not hear any more from any of my colleagues in the conservative party, suggesting that there is a route for nigel farage into the conservative party. there is no is of a sworn nigel farage in the conservative party.— of a sworn nigel farage in the conservative party. lots of people do find him _ conservative party. lots of people do find him appealing, _ conservative party. lots of people do find him appealing, lots - conservative party. lots of people do find him appealing, lots of - do find him appealing, lots of people do want to listen to him and find him interesting, may be entertaining. why do think that is? there was a poll that showed that he was going _ there was a poll that showed that he was going to overtake the tories in terms _ was going to overtake the tories in terms of— was going to overtake the tories in terms of votes. we interviewed nigel farage _ terms of votes. we interviewed nigel farage on _ terms of votes. we interviewed nigel farage on our programme this week and challenged him on the fact that there _ and challenged him on the fact that there is— and challenged him on the fact that there is a _ and challenged him on the fact that there is a quality problem with a number— there is a quality problem with a number of— there is a quality problem with a number of his candidates. 41 of them are friends— number of his candidates. 41 of them are friends on facebook with somebody who has described himself as a fascist— somebody who has described himself as a fascist leader. he says that is as a fascist leader. he says that is a problem — as a fascist leader. he says that is a problem with vetting. i'm not sure how much— a problem with vetting. i'm not sure how much betting money you need to put into— how much betting money you need to put into checking if your candidates are friends — put into checking if your candidates are friends with fascists on social media _ are friends with fascists on social media. that's notjust liking a post or looking — media. that's notjust liking a post or looking at one, it's actually making — or looking at one, it's actually making a _ or looking at one, it's actually making a positive connection with one _ making a positive connection with one that— making a positive connection with one that is— making a positive connection with one. that is a worry, and it is something _ one. that is a worry, and it is something that he certainly needs to -et something that he certainly needs to get on _ something that he certainly needs to get on too _ something that he certainly needs to get on top of. something that he certainly needs to get on too of— get on top of. peter mandelson, to ou, get on top of. peter mandelson, to you. finally. _ get on top of. peter mandelson, to you, finally, labour— get on top of. peter mandelson, to you, finally, labour is _ get on top of. peter mandelson, to you, finally, labour is by _ get on top of. peter mandelson, to you, finally, labour is by nature i you, finally, labour is by nature superstitious, may be a touch paranoid, but should they... how seriously are they preparing for government? i seriously are they preparing for government?— seriously are they preparing for covernment? .. , ~ , government? i think they are very seriously preparing _ government? i think they are very seriously preparing for— government? i think they are very l seriously preparing for government. i think you hear that from bridget phillipson this morning. can ijust say, you didn't ask us anything aboutjohn swinney and his interview, and i think the reason for that is that it's perfectly clear the game is up for the snp. what are the scottish people now need is not an snp led government thatis need is not an snp led government that is going to go head to head the entire time with the uk government, they need scottish people in a newly elected labour government that will get benefits for scotland. the snp has become structurally irrelevant to the scottish people. so, that, just to make a point, secondly, absolutely central, i'm sorry to keep going on about this, philip, we didn't talk about a silver bullet, the task of turning around this economy is a long—term one, not a short—term one. yes, we can make quick changes. yes, we can take some early steps to change things in our health service, our schools, fighting crime on the streets. but everything we want to do in the long term depends on turning around and rebuilding our economy, and that has to be central to what a new labour government does.— to be central to what a new labour government does. they don't have a [an to government does. they don't have a plan to direct- _ government does. they don't have a plan to direct. an _ government does. they don't have a plan to direct. an aspiration. - government does. they don't have a plan to direct. an aspiration. they i plan to direct. an aspiration. they do have a plan. — plan to direct. an aspiration. they do have a plan, if— plan to direct. an aspiration. they do have a plan, if you _ plan to direct. an aspiration. tie: do have a plan, if you had five plan to direct. an aspiration. tie1 do have a plan, if you had five more minutes, i would do have a plan, if you had five more minutes, iwould be do have a plan, if you had five more minutes, i would be very happy to tell you it. brute minutes, i would be very happy to tell you it— tell you it. we have already extended — tell you it. we have already extended it _ tell you it. we have already extended it by _ tell you it. we have already extended it by 15 _ tell you it. we have already - extended it by 15 minutes today because there are so much to talk about. even then, we're out of time. i wish we were a longer term programme. i know the politicians of every stripe will still be out fighting for every single vote, there is 11 days to go and nothing is settled. a huge thank you to the trio at the desk. the biggest thanks of course to you for watching at home. the clock is ticking louder and louder now in the countdown to polling day. for all that, the two main party leaders are known for being strait—laced, events in this campaign have pretty wild. who knows what will happen by the time we meet again. i'll be with clive myrie on wednesday night on bbc one after the next clash between rishi sunak and keir starmer, and this sunday's newscast with paddy o'connell will pop up on bbc sounds later on today. i'll look forward to seeing you next sunday, same time, same place. goodby