scotland has been speaking to laura kuenssberg. their allegations that snp stamps have been paid for by public money and the allegation today so someone in your office was involved in that allegedly using material from the past. involved in that allegedly using materialfrom the past. —— public purse. what you say to that? i can assure no parliamentary stamps provided by parliament have been used to support election properties and the parliament has said they will look into this matter and we will look into this matter and we will provide parliament with any assistance they require. fine assistance they require. one whatsapp — assistance they require. one whatsapp message, - assistance they require. one whatsapp message, your assistant brought the stamp fairy is very useful when it comes to campaigns. who is the stamp fairy? we campaign on a reuular who is the stamp fairy? we campaign on a regular basis _ who is the stamp fairy? we campaign on a regular basis and _ who is the stamp fairy? we campaign on a regular basis and we _ who is the stamp fairy? we campaign on a regular basis and we campaign i on a regular basis and we campaign and a countless range of different issues and these are remarks made from whatsapp channel. in this room so i have is these were not for election purposes.— election purposes. there is an important _ election purposes. there is an important principle _ election purposes. there is an important principle about - election purposes. there is an i important principle about public money being used for campaigning purposes by political parties. are you completely sure your party has not been using any public money to fund your election campaign? i am confident of _ fund your election campaign? i am confident of that. _ fund your election campaign? i am confident of that. we _ fund your election campaign? i —n confident of that. we have obviously been engaging in a fundraising campaign to support the election campaign to support the election campaign and it has been supported by the many members we have around about the country. the scottish national party fortunate we have the largest membership of any political party in scotland and we have more members than all the other parties combined and those members have been supporting our election campaign and enabling us to have the resources available to generate and raise to support our campaigning activity. you have a lot fewer members than you used to have, part of that is because of concerns many voters in scotland also share about standards in the snp. if we just look at the recent past, you have the scandal around alex salmond, the former first minister's behaviour. nicola sturgeon was arrested. the party former chief executive was charged with embezzlement. you are a very well respected politician who has been around the snp for a long time. would you understand if voters wanted to punish you at this election for all of that which has gone on? we have had a tough time, laura. i think that has been acknowledged, i've acknowledged that on a constant basis since i became first minister, just about seven weeks ago. i have been very candid about the fact that i recognise that the snp has had that tough time, and myjob is to rebuild the trust between the public of scotland and the scottish national party. that is what i'm focused on as first minister, i have come into an election campaign very quickly after becoming first minister. i have always acknowledged this in my representation of those who have chosen me to go to parliament, that you have got to work constantly to build the trust that you experience with memberss of the public, but exactly what i will do as leader of the scottish national party, and as the first minister of scotland. let's talk about if voters can trust some of the promises you are making this time round. your manifesto says if you win a majority of scottish seats in the general election, you would push again for a referendum on scottish independence. but the tories have said no, the courts have said the snp can't do that on its own, and just a couple of days ago keir starmer, the labour leader, also said he would not talk about it. you are making a promise, again, you would not be able to keep. i think this is in the hands of the people of scotland, to be honest. it's a deeply democratic question. in 2021, the people of scotland elected a parliament that was committed to holding an independence referendum, and which supported independence. essentially, the united kingdom government has not enabled that view, that expression to be put into democratic effect. what i'm saying in this election is that if people in scotland want us to progress on the arguments about independence, if they want scotland to be an independent country, they have got to support the scottish national party as the only means of ensuring that can come about. we cannot allow the westminster political parties to deny the people of scotland their democratic rights, and their democratic opportunity, to decide their own constitutional future. because that is a fundamental point at the heart of our democracy. the fundamental point, i know you don't like it, is that westminster has the power to say no to going any further along that road. keir starmer and rishi sunak have both said repeatedly that they will not talk about it. so your promise to voters in this election is a promise you would not be able to keep. and that is your decision to put it front and centre of your manifesto. it is, because i think it is an essential solution to the issues people face in their lives today. if you look at the challenges of public spending cuts which you have talked about on this programme, the devastating effect of brexit on our country and our economy, and the impact on the cost of living. these are all issues that have been delivered by westminster, all problems created by westminster decision—making, forcing us out of the european union against the will of the people of scotland, and in the prolonging of public spending cuts, which is what the labour party will do when they come to office. my answer to that is to make sure that decisions about the future of scotland are made in scotland, for scotland. that can only come about if people are prepared to vote for that in the forthcoming general election. and to give us the electoral support and political support that will enable us to deliver a referendum on independence, because that is the secure route of ensuring the people of scotland are able to decide on their own constitutional future. and be able to address the devastating impact of austerity and brexit, and the cost of living, which are really causing damage within the scottish economy and scottish society. everybody watching, particularly in scotland, will know you repeatedly promised to do this when you had a majority of mps in scotland for many years, you have power in holyrood in scottish parliament for many years and it's not something you been able to deliver thus far. you are making the same promise again. you say this is about democracy, if you don't get a majority of scottish seats in this election, will you accept that means it is the will of the scottish people that they don't want to have another independence referendum? i'm not going to prejudge the outcome of the election which is in 12 days' time. hang on, you can't have it both ways. you are saying if you have a majority you will do this, but if you don't have a majority, they're not answer if you don't have a majority, will you accept that is the scottish electorate telling you they don't want to pursue independence right now? parliament was elected in 2021 with a majority of members for a five—year term, committed to the delivery of a referendum on independence and delivering scottish independence if that was supported in a referendum. i think that democratic mandate from the people of scotland has got to be delivered. i think this election is an opportunity for us to advance those arguments. but it's crystal—clear the people in scotland have expressed a preference to determine their own constitutional future. i think westminster should remove the obstacles that are stopping scotland from having that choice. but that was in 2021. there is about to be a big vote in 202a. if you lose support of this general election, do you accept that will mean that you are losing support for independence? that is surely the simple democratic logic. well, the democratic logic is that the people of scotland have had their democratic will thwarted since 2021. i invite people in scotland, in this election, a week on thursday, to make sure they exercise their view and their voice to make sure we have that strongest demonstration possible of the support that is necessary to deliver scottish independence, to make sure that westminster stops blocking the democratic aspirations of the people of scotland. on a final point, you were education secretary in one of the manyjobs you have done in the scottish administration. under your party, scottish education has slid down the international rankings, to the disappointment of many people. but we've talked a lot on our programme about what happens with children, phones in the classroom. bridget phillipson said she will make sure that head teachers in england keep phones out of schools if she wins as part of the labour party at the election. the scottish government has guidance coming on this shortly. would you give schools a similar instruction, should head teachers keep phones out of scottish classrooms? we are looking very carefully at this issue because as your interview with bridget phillipson demonstrated, there are a range of different perspectives on this question. some teachers believe having phones available to young people assess the education process, others believe it is very disruptive to classroom cohesion and the cohesion of schools. there is a careful route to be constructed here, and we are working closely with the education system to make sure we have firm and clear guidance in place, because we cannot have a situation where mobile phone technology is disruptive to the education process, and we must ensure that we are supporting teachers and the education profession, and making sure that the objectives we have for the education system are properly and fully realised by having a supportive environment within the classroom and a stable environment within the classroom as well. joining me now is noa hoffman, political correspondent, he sun and stephen bush, associate editor and columnist at the financial times. let's start, the main story the allegations of betting. we let's start, the main story the allegations of betting. we had james cleverl on allegations of betting. we had james cleverly on laura _ allegations of betting. we had james cleverly on laura kuenssberg - allegations of betting. we had james cleverly on laura kuenssberg this - cleverly on laura kuenssberg this morning not really giving much, much more than the little bits we have had from rishi sunak that if the allegations turn out to be founded this is not acceptable and also there can be no comment whilst an investigation is taking place. i think ultimately regardless of what the tories say public will look at this latest totally scanned but i had in the house as another example 14 had in the house as another example 1a years building up of a lot of examples of mps thinking about themselves before the public and before the electorate and looking at this and thinking it is another disgraceful episode for politics generally. disgraceful episode for politics aenerall . ~ . , disgraceful episode for politics uenerall. . ,, generally. what is your assessment? si . n i think generally. what is your assessment? sign i think the _ generally. what is your assessment? sign i think the big _ generally. what is your assessment? sign i think the big problem - generally. what is your assessment? sign i think the big problem with - sign i think the big problem with the story as it is quite funny which is not a good place for a government to be in. i is not a good place for a government to be in. ~ , is not a good place for a government to be in. ~' , is not a good place for a government to be in. ~ , ., to be in. i think they can get away with being — to be in. i think they can get away with being seen _ to be in. i think they can get away with being seen as _ to be in. i think they can get away with being seen as men _ to be in. i think they can get away with being seen as men are - to be in. i think they can get away with being seen as men are harsh| to be in. i think they can get away - with being seen as men are harsh but silly is— with being seen as men are harsh but silly is a _ with being seen as men are harsh but silly is a very — with being seen as men are harsh but silly is a very difficult place for a political— silly is a very difficult place for a political party to be in. if true these _ a political party to be in. if true these allegations amount to a crime committed — these allegations amount to a crime committed with someone's own card, the raw_ committed with someone's own card, the raw name online. at that point you might — the raw name online. at that point you might as well for the police before — you might as well for the police before you do it yourself. i think even _ before you do it yourself. i think even the — before you do it yourself. i think even the idea that might've happened 'ust even the idea that might've happened just makes_ even the idea that might've happened just makes the conservatives look ridiculous, — just makes the conservatives look ridiculous, which is not where you want _ ridiculous, which is not where you want to— ridiculous, which is not where you want to he — ridiculous, which is not where you want to be two weeks before an election — want to be two weeks before an election. , ., ., ~' want to be two weeks before an election. , ., ., ~ ., , ~ election. lets look at the past week in terms of — election. lets look at the past week in terms of other— election. lets look at the past week in terms of other issues. _ election. lets look at the past week in terms of other issues. how - election. lets look at the past week in terms of other issues. how do i election. lets look at the past week| in terms of other issues. how do you rate the performances of the leaders, the parties, the success rate in being able to talk about what they want to talk about? i think labour has a bit of an easy time in the sense they can continue doing well by not having any major slip—ups and i think last week to did just that. on question time rishi sunak was given a really, really quite savage grilling, many would say fairly so, by the audience and people shouting shame at him but equally keir starmer got some booing as well. ultimately i think the big story of the week has ended with this betting scandal, that's what people will take from the week and all the minutiae, not that there is that much, when it comes to what labour is talking about policy wise and even what the tories were talking about with policy will not make much headway when you think about your average man or woman in the pub and what they consume in terms of the election. the bigger story ultimately this week was the betting scandal and just another example of the tories are really struggling to convince the public they are still a viable party that deserves a big chance at the election. ~ ., deserves a big chance at the election-— deserves a big chance at the election. ~ . i. , , election. what caught your eye this week? the conservative _ election. what caught your eye this week? the conservative party - election. what caught your eye this i week? the conservative party started to talk about — week? the conservative party started to talk about freedom _ week? the conservative party started to talk about freedom security. -- - to talk about freedom security. —— food _ to talk about freedom security. —— food security. the conservatives, i thought— food security. the conservatives, i thought it — food security. the conservatives, i thought it was quite an alarming si-n thought it was quite an alarming sign for— thought it was quite an alarming sign for them they were two weeks out having — sign for them they were two weeks out having to pivot towards talking about _ out having to pivot towards talking about farming and food security, that very — about farming and food security, that very much looks like what we would _ that very much looks like what we would expect from the polls, a party in acute _ would expect from the polls, a party in acute electoral distress to me. next _ in acute electoral distress to me. next week, what do we expect and what your mind do we think poulsen's have to do to shift dials and move it us? ~' ., , it us? next week, -- move needles. we can exoect _ it us? next week, -- move needles. we can expect labour _ it us? next week, -- move needles. we can expect labour to _ it us? next week, -- move needles. we can expect labour to ram - it us? next week, -- move needles. we can expect labour to ram home | we can expect labour to ram home their message to ignore the polls and election is not a done deal and thatis and election is not a done deal and that is a bit of a fear among some labour insiders at the public will think it is a done deal and keir starmer will have the red carpet rolled out for him in downing street so i can use my vote is a bit of a protest to another party, it could be the green party are cut microform and labour really don't want that message to seek to into the subject. —— it could be the reform party. you will hear the tories continue with their defensive line of preventing labour from their defensive line of preventing labourfrom having their defensive line of preventing labour from having the socialist supermajority that will continue in totality and bring havoc on the country. tomorrow we have the next leadership head—to—head with rishi sunak and keir starmerfacing sunak and keir starmer facing questions sunak and keir starmerfacing questions from some readers of the sun newspaper ad 5pm. i would expect some questions there on the cost of living crisis and immigration and labour has important question to answer on education because while they have aligned it will tackle a legal immigration through smashing the gangs the details are not that clear so we can expect some language run that in the coming week. band run that in the coming week. and our run that in the coming week. and your thoughts _ run that in the coming week. and your thoughts on _ run that in the coming week. and your thoughts on next week, anything we should listen out for? i your thoughts on next week, anything we should listen out for?— we should listen out for? i think the thing will — we should listen out for? i think the thing will be _ we should listen out for? i think the thing will be the _ we should listen out for? i think the thing will be the labour - we should listen out for? i thinkl the thing will be the labour party trying _ the thing will be the labour party trying to— the thing will be the labour party trying to desperately convince us all that— trying to desperately convince us all that is— trying to desperately convince us all that is not a done deal and the conservative party trying to convince _ conservative party trying to convince us it is a done deal because _ convince us it is a done deal because they will hope that causes and fortis— because they will hope that causes and fortis for the reform party to come _ and fortis for the reform party to come back— and fortis for the reform party to come back into the fold.— and fortis for the reform party to come back into the fol