about a developing story today. it's against the rules for taxpayers�* cash to be used in campaigning, but there have been allegations over the last week that snp staffers have been using postage stamps paid for with public money for campaign purposes. and the mail on sunday has a story today, that someone in your office was involved in discussions about the use of stamps allegedly paid for by the public purse. what do you say to that? well, i've obviously discussed this with my staff and i have been assured that no parliamentary stamps that have been provided by parliament have been used to support election purposes and obviously the parliament has said they are looking into this matter and obviously will provide parliament with any assistance that they require as they undertake those inquiries was white one one whatsapp message reported this morning sent to an snp group chat, your assistant wrote, the stamp fairy is very useful when it comes to campaigns. who is the stamp fairy? we campaign on a regular basis and engage in the public with a range of different issues. these are humorous remarks made in a whatsapp channel. what is important is the reassurance that i've had that parliamentary stamps have not been used for election purposes. it might sound like a small issue, that is a humorous message, but there is a hugely important principle here about public money being used for campaigning purposes by political parties. are you completely sure that your party has not been using any public money to fund your election campaign? i'm confident of that. we have obviously been engaging in a fundraising campaign to support the election campaign, it has been supported by the many members we have around about the country. the scottish national party is fortunate that we have the largest membership of any political party in scotland and, indeed, we've got more members than all the other parties combined. those members have been supporting our election campaign and enabling us to have the resources available, generated and raised from within our party membership base, to support us in campaigning. you have a lot fewer members than you used to have, part of that is because of concerns many voters in scotland also share about standards in the snp. if we just look at the recent past, you have the scandal around alex salmond, the former first minister's behaviour. nicola sturgeon was arrested. the party's former chief executive was charged with embezzlement. you are a very well respected politician who has been around the snp for a long time. would you understand if voters wanted to punish you at this election for all of that which has gone on? we have had a tough time, laura. i think that has been acknowledged, i've acknowledged that on a constant basis since i became first minister, just about seven weeks ago. i have been very candid about the fact that i recognise that the snp has had that tough time, and myjob is to rebuild the trust between the public of scotland and the scottish national party. that is what i'm focused on as first minister, i have come into an election campaign very quickly after becoming first minister. i have always acknowledged this in my representation of those who have chosen me to go to parliament, that you have got to work constantly to build the trust that you experience with members of the public, but exactly what i will do us a leader of the scottish national party, does the first minister of scotland. lets talk about if voters come trust some of the promises you are making this time round. your manifesto says if you win a majority of scottish seats in the general election, you would push again for a referendum on scottish independence. but the tories have said no, the courts have said the snp can't do that on its own, and just a couple of days ago, keir starmer, the labour leader, also said he would not talk about it. you are making a promise, again, you would not be able to keep. i think this is in the hands of the people of scotland, to be honest. it's a deeply democratic question. in 2021, the people scotland elected a parliament that was committed to holding an independence referendum, and which supported independence. essentially, the united kingdom government has not enabled that view, that expression to be put into democratic effect. what i'm saying in this election is that if people in scotland want us to progress on the arguments about independence, if they want scotland to be an independent country, they have got to support the scottish national party, as the only means of ensuring that can come about. we cannot allow the westminster political parties to deny the people of scotland their democratic rights, and their democratic opportunity, to decide their own constitutional future. because that is a fundamental point at the heart of our democracy. the fundamental point, i know you don't like it, is that westminster has the power to say no to going any further along that road. keir starmer and rishi sunak have both said repeatedly that they will not talk about it. so your promise to voters in this election is a promise you would not be able to keep. and that is your decision to put it front and centre of your manifesto. it is, because i think it is an essential solution to the issues people face in their lives today. if you look at the challenges of public spending cuts which you have talked about on this programme, the devastating effect of brexit on our country and our economy, and the impact on the cost of living — these are all issues that have been delivered by westminster, all problems created by westminster decision—making, forcing is out of the european union against the will of the people of scotland, and in the prolonging of public spending cuts, which is what the labour party will do when they come to office. my answer to that is to make sure that decisions about the future of scotland are made in scotland, for scotland. that can only come about if people are prepared to vote for that, in the forthcoming general election. and to give us the electoral support and political support that will enable us to deliver a referendum on independence, because that is the secure route of ensuring that people scotland are able to decide on their own constitutional future. and be able to address the devastating impact of austerity and brexit, and the cost of living, which are really causing damage in scottish society. everybody watching, particularly in scotland, will know you repeatedly promised to do this when you had a majority of mps in scotland for many years, you have power in holyrood for many years and it's not something you been able to deliver thus far. you are making the same promise again. you say this is about democracy, if you don't get a majority of scottish seats in this election, will you accept that means it is the will of the scottish people that they don't want to have another independence referendum? i'm not going to prejudge the outcome of an election which is in 12 days�* time. hang on, you can't have it both ways. you are saying if you have a majority you will do this, but if you don't have a majority, they're not answer the part of a question. if you don't have a majority, will you accept that as the scottish electorate telling you they don't want to pursue independence right now? parliament was elected in 2021 with a majority of members for a five year term, committed to the delivery of a referendum on independence and delivering scottish independence if that was supported in a referendum. i think that democratic mandate from the people of scotland has got to be delivered. i think this election is an opportunity for us to advance those arguments. but it's crystal clear the people in scotland have expressed a preference to determine their own constitutional future. i think westminster should remove the obstacles that are stopping scotland from having a choice. but that was in 2021. there is about to be a big vote in 202a. if you lose support of this general election, do you accept that will mean that you are losing support for independence? that is surely the simple democratic logic. well, the democratic logic is that the people of scotland have had their democratic well thwarted since 2021. i invite people in scotland, in this election, a week on thursday, to make sure they exercise their view and their voice to make sure we have that strongest demonstration possible of the support that is necessary to deliver scottish independence, to make sure that westminster stops blocking the democratic aspirations of the people of scotland. on a final point, you were education secretary in one of the manyjobs you have done in the scottish administration. under your party, scottish education has slid down the international rankings, to the disappointment of many people. but we talked a lot on our programme about what happens with children, phones in the classroom, bridget phillipson said she will make sure that head teachers in england keep phones out of schools if she wins as part of the labour party at this election. the scottish government has guidance coming on this shortly. would you give schools a similar instruction, should head teachers keep phones out of scottish classrooms? we are looking very carefully at this issue because as your interview with bridget phillipson demonstrated, there are a range of different perspectives. some teachers believe having phones available to young people assess the education process, others believe it is very disruptive to classroom cohesion and the cohesion of schools. there is a careful route to be constructed, and we are working closely with the education system to make sure we have firm and clear guidance in place, because we cannot have a situation where mobile phone technology is disruptive to the education process, and we must ensure that we are supporting teachers and the education profession, and making sure that the objectives we have for the education system are properly and fully realised by having a supportive environment within the classroom and a stable environment within the classroom as well. laura kuenssberg asking the questions tojohn swinney there. for a round—up of this week's campign trail, i spoke to noa hoffman, political correspondent at the sun, and stephen bush, associate editor and columnist at the financial times. i started by asking them both about the latest betting allegations. we had james cleverly on the laura kuenssberg show this morning are not truly giving us much more then that he little bits we have got from rishi sunak so far, which is that if the allegations turned out to be foundered, that's unacceptable and these people have no place in the party. but ultimately, there can be no comment at this time while an investigation is taking place. ultimately, i think regardless of what the tories say, the public will be looking at this latest tory sleaze scandal with their head in their hands, another example of 1a years building up a lot of examples of mps thinking about themselves before the public, before the electorate, and looking at this and thinking it's another disgraceful episode for politics generally. what's your assessment? i episode for politics generally. what's your assessment? i think the big problem — what's your assessment? i think the big problem with _ what's your assessment? i think the big problem with the _ what's your assessment? i think the big problem with the story _ what's your assessment? i think the big problem with the story is - what's your assessment? i think the big problem with the story is that i big problem with the story is that it's quite — big problem with the story is that it's quite funny, which is not a good — it's quite funny, which is not a good place _ it's quite funny, which is not a good place for a government to be. a government— good place for a government to be. a government can be seen as mean or harsh_ government can be seen as mean or harsh and _ government can be seen as mean or harsh and get away with it but being silly is_ harsh and get away with it but being silly is a _ harsh and get away with it but being silly is a dangerous place. these allegations if true amount to a crime — allegations if true amount to a crime committed with someone's own card5, _ crime committed with someone's own cards, their— crime committed with someone's own cards, their own name online. you at that point— cards, their own name online. you at that point might as well from the police _ that point might as well from the police before you to do it yourself. even _ police before you to do it yourself. even the _ police before you to do it yourself. even the idea that that might have happened just makes the conservatives look ridiculous, which is not _ conservatives look ridiculous, which is not there — conservatives look ridiculous, which is not there you want to be before an election — is not there you want to be before an election-— an election. let's look at the past week in terms — an election. let's look at the past week in terms of— an election. let's look at the past week in terms of other _ an election. let's look at the past week in terms of other issues - i an election. let's look at the past i week in terms of other issues - how week in terms of other issues — how do you rate the performances of the leaders, the parties, carrying a success rate in being able to talk about what they want to talk about? i think labour's got a bit of an easy time in the sense to continue doing well byjust not having any major slip—ups. doing well byjust not having any majorslip—ups. i doing well byjust not having any major slip—ups. i think last week they did just that. in question time, rishi sunak was given a really quite savage grilling, many would say fairly so, by the audience, people shouting at shame at him. kier starmer got some boos as well when it came time to be in question by the audience too. i think the big story of the week has ended with this betting scandal. that is what people will take from the weak. all this minutiae, not that there is that march, when it comes to what labour was talking about a policy—wise or even what the tories were talking about on policies, is not making much headway with the average man or woman at the pub in terms of what they are consuming of the election. the big story this week was ultimately the betting scandal and it'sjust week was ultimately the betting scandal and it's just another example of the tories really struggling to convince the public that they're still a viable party that they're still a viable party that deserves a big chance at this election. ~ . .., that deserves a big chance at this election. ~ . .. , ., that deserves a big chance at this election. ~ . y., , , election. what caught your eye this week? the conservative _ election. what caught your eye this week? the conservative party - week? the conservative party startin: week? the conservative party starting to _ week? the conservative party starting to talk— week? the conservative party starting to talk about - week? the conservative party starting to talk about food - starting to talk about food security. farmers, broadly speaking, have been— security. farmers, broadly speaking, have been one of the most reliable voting _ have been one of the most reliable voting bioc— have been one of the most reliable voting bloc for the conservative party— voting bloc for the conservative party and — voting bloc for the conservative party and for conservative parties throughout the world. i thought was an alarming thing if you're a conservative that they were two weeks _ conservative that they were two weeks out having to pivot to talking about _ weeks out having to pivot to talking about farming and food security, that very — about farming and food security, that very much looks like a party in acute _ that very much looks like a party in acute electoral distress for. interesting. looking ahead, what next week in your mind can we expect and what do you think politicians have to do to shift dials and win needles? ~ ~ have to do to shift dials and win needles? ~' ~ , ., .., needles? next week, i think you can exect needles? next week, i think you can exnect labour— needles? next week, i think you can exoect labour to _ needles? next week, i think you can expect labour to really _ needles? next week, i think you can expect labour to really ram - needles? next week, i think you can expect labour to really ram it - needles? next week, i think you can expect labour to really ram it home | expect labour to really ram it home in their latest campaign message, ignore the polls, at the election's not a done deal, because there is a bit of a fear among some labour insiders that the public will think, it's a done deal, kier starmer will have the red carpet rolled out for him in downing street so i can now have my vote is a bit of a protest to a different party, that could be the greens, it could be reform, and labour really, really don't want that message to seep through to the public. can expect to hear kier starmer ram that home and the tories to continue with their defensive line to please prevent labour from having this socialist supermajority that will continue into eternity and wreak havoc on the country. we have tomorrow the next leadership head—to—head, well, not quite a head—to—head, well, not quite a head—to—head, but rishi sunak and kier starmer facing questions from some newspaper readers. labour do have some important questions to answer on immigration because while they have this line that they're going to tackle the illegal migration through smashing the gangs, the details aren't completely comprehensive. i think we can expect perhaps and more language around that in the coming week.— that in the coming week. brilliant, thank ou that in the coming week. brilliant, thank you for— that in the coming week. brilliant, thank you for teeing _ that in the coming week. brilliant, thank you for teeing it _ that in the coming week. brilliant, thank you for teeing it up - that in the coming week. brilliant, thank you for teeing it up for - that in the coming week. brilliant, thank you for teeing it up for next| thank you for teeing it up for next week. classic, your thoughts on anything we should be listening out for? , ., ., ., 4' anything we should be listening out for? , ., ., ., for? the big thing to look out for next week _ for? the big thing to look out for next week will _ for? the big thing to look out for next week will be _ for? the big thing to look out for next week will be the _ for? the big thing to look out for next week will be the labour - for? the big thing to look out for i next week will be the labour party trying _ next week will be the labour party trying to _ next week will be the labour party trying to convince us it's not a done — trying to convince us it's not a done deal— trying to convince us it's not a done deal and the conservative party trying _ done deal and the conservative party trying to— done deal and the conservative party trying to convince us that it is a done _ trying to convince us that it is a done deal— trying to convince us that it is a done deal because they hope that will then— done deal because they hope that will then be what causes enough reform — will then be what causes enough reform voters to come back into the fold. now, the story of a former child alcoholic who's turning her life around. chloe ward started drinking at the age of 11, often before going to school, and later found herself living in her car. now sober, chloe lives and works at the emmaus centre, in norfolk, which provides a home and support for those experiencing homelessness. 0ur reporter charlie jones has her story. chloe ward had herfirst drink at the age of 11