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CNNW The July 2, 2024



the second day in a row. we'll ask a top israeli official why the idf hit the same area again. and here at home, donald trump jr. on the witness stand at his family's fraud trial. i'm kaitlan collins, and this is "the source." moments ago, president biden called for a pause in gaza to allow for the release of more hostages. this after he was interrupted by a protester, a rabbi at a closed door fundraiser in minneapolis tonight. but his administration has been clear, saying they rule out the idea of endorsing a ceasefire, as you have seen some in the international community call for one. we'll have more on president biden's response in a moment. but all of this is coming after the first evacuations of people from gaza. more than two million people have been trapped. the conditions there have been described as nothing short of hellish. deaths continuing to climb. there is little food or water to be found. a small number of americans were among the hundreds that were allowed to leave through that rafah crossing into egypt today. president biden says that's the result of intense diplomacy, and that the white house is working, quote, nonstop to get more americans out. most civilians have remained trapped, though, as israeli ground forces have been moving in and air strikes over gaza have continued. that same refugee camp that you heard about yesterday, the jabalya camp that was hit, was hit again today, 24 hours after a large number of civilians that were killed, in addition according to the idf to a top hamas commander. this is the before and after of that area. you can see the devastation that has happened. israel claims that it struck a hamas command and control complex, and reiterates that they have been warning civilians to leave this area. this is what the idf said about hitting that camp again. >> you're referring to a second strike. i think a more correct depiction of it would be is there is ongoing fighting. we're fighting an ennay is embedded in each and every house. there is tunnels everywhere, and it's an active combat zone. it's not a refugee camp, it is a hamas stronghold. >> more on what israel is doing in a moment. wolf blitzer is live on the ground in tel aviv. i understand there is a lot of activity, some explosions we're seeing happening in gaza right now. what can you tell us? >> well, you can see the skyline over gaza. this is from our camera that's not far from gaza in sderot. you can see the lights going on. clearly the israelis are not pausing in their continuing air strikes against what they describe as major hamas sites. not only elsewhere in gaza, but including in those refugee camps, the major, the largest refugee camp where there have been two israeli air strikes over the past two days alone. the israelis are not going to pause. they're not going accept the cease-fire. they see this, as the prime minister said, a war that could potentially lead to israel's extinction, and they're going to try to do the best they can to destroy hamas, and they're going in full speed ahead. >> yeah, wolf, and you pressed the idf on this yesterday, the idea that yes, they say that hamas commanders are there, this is the command and control center. we can hear what's happening in gaza, just to let our viewers know. that's what they're looking at. that is what is happening at this moment. it is 3:00 a.m. there in gaza, and you can hear the activity. what's clear, wolf, despite the growing criticism of the civilians that are being caught in the middle of this, israel does not appear to be slowing its activity in gaza at all. >> no. they're not slowing it down at all. they're going to be moving quickly on the ground and from the air, and maybe even from the sea. they've got a mission, and they're determined to try to succeed and to eliminate hamas as a potential threat down the road to israel as a result of what happened on october 7th. they're moving. they're moving quickly, and they're not going to accept either a cease-fire or even a so-called pause. they see that as the same thing. they want to get the job done. they want the get it done as quickly as possible. if you speak to israeli officials, as i have, they're making that abundantly clear. >> yeah, and wolf, i want to pause for a moment and let everyone see what is happening in gaza, amend just listen to what we're hearing right now. >> and wolf, this is coming as what we're seeing not just these air strikes happening tonight, but also what's shifting here as we heard from a senior israeli official today in the military saying these forces are on the ground. they are approaching. they're at the gates of gaza city, he said. >> they're moving quickly on the ground. this is a major israeli military operation. remember, kaitlan, the israelis in the days immediately after october 7th, the terror attack in israel, not far from gaza, the israeli military mobilized more than 300,000 reservists, and they're now active duty. they're on the ground over there. some are already inside gaza, but many are waiting to move inside. so this is a full-scale military operation that they're engaged in. and they see this as part of their effort to destroy hamas and protect israel from any future attacks similar to the one that occurred october 7th. so they're not going stop. >> yeah, wolf blitzer on the ground in tel aviv. we'll continue to check back in with you as there are updates. with me here in studio, axios reporter brock ravid who is deeply sourced in the middle east. and what we're seeing in gaza right now, it's 3:00 a.m. there. this is kind of what's been happening every night. there is no pause happening right now. i think it's notable given what president biden said tonight at this closed door fundraiser. he was being shouted down from a rabbi calling for a cease-fire. he talked about a pause. but it's not totally dpleer that will happen, what it will look like. >> yeah. i think we need to differentiate between a cease-fire. this is basically something which is pretty long, at least a few days that might lead to a total cessation of hostilities. this is not in the cards, okay. when biden speaks about the pause, he speaks about something israel is already doing on the ground without saying it. for example, today, when the ambulances came in and took 80 wounded palestinians to egypt, and every day when the trucks are coming in, there is an unofficial pause that israel stops a lot of its military operations in southern gaza to allow that to happen. but what biden is talking about, i think what the white house is trying to achieve is at least several-hour pause in the entire gaza strip that will create some sort of conditions that will, a, allow the departure of americans from gaza, because a lots of them are still scattered around the gaza strip. >> hundreds. >> i think it's close to a thousand people. and also create a sort of atmosphere that might allow some sort of a release of hostages. i'm not sure if that's possible, but that's what the white house is looking for. >> so when he says, quote, and this is biden tonight, i'm the guy that convinced bibi, his nickname, to call for a cease-fire to let the prisoners out. i'm the guy that convinced bianna golodryga for him to open the door, you think that's what he is referencing? >> i think so. i read the transcript of this. it seems to me like biden talking off the cuff. >> he never does that. >> never. i wouldn't take every word. he uses the word prisoners when they're not the word hostage, things like that. i think again, what the white house is trying to achieve is a period of six hours, eight hours, that's a long enough period of time, again, to get americans out. not only americans, but foreign nationals. we saw a first tranche of this happening today. you can't get all those people out if you don't have a few hours of a pause. >> and what we're seeing happening on the ground as far as israel is clearly continuing to hit gaza tonight, we're looking at these live pictures right now, the israeli commander saying our forces are at the gates of gaza city. that were we're expecting it to be, that real urban warfare that we've heard so many israeli experts and former officials there say it's going to be ugly. it's going to be brutal. they've already lost 16 idf soldiers. how much more do you think they're bracing for? >> i think what we still don't see is exactly that. the ground operation, we see some pictures, short videos. but on the ground in northern gaza strip and in the center gaza strip, so from both sides, both from the north and the south, there are three armored infantry divisions of the idf. that's more than 30,000 soldiers. >> so they're surrounding it? >> they're surrounding it. it's hundreds of tanks, armored personnel vehicles. this is a huge thing. we still don't see it because the israelis are keeping it amb ambiguous for all sorts of reasons. at the gates of gaza city, they are i think either tomorrow or the next day to start getting into gaza city. and this is where things get really difficult, because this is a densely urban area. and from every house, from every corner, there can be anti-tank missiles, there could be ieds. this is very, very dangerous. >> and do you think they -- they're ready for it? they won't call it a ground invasion. >> not yet. not yet. >> they will eventually? >> i think they will. i think at a certain point, you know, when you see something and you see it's a ground invasion, it doesn't matter if you call it an invasion, if you don't call it an invasion. and this is not something that will take -- -- they're not there for a few hours. they're not there for two or three days. this is going to be a listening thing. >> brock ravid, great reporting. thank you for that. the rafah crossing that i mentioned is a spot. it's an eight-mile fence. on one side it's millions of people who are trapped in gaza tonight. on the other side is egypt's sinai desert, now the only way in for food, for water, for supplies. it's the only way out for people who do have another passport to get them to another country. and i'm joined now by a senior adviser to prime minister benjamin netanyahu and former israeli ambassador to the united kingdom, mark regev. thank you so much for being here. is israel committed to making sure that the rafah crossing stays open so these crossings can continue? >> we are indeed. and we're hopeful we'll see more people be leaving in the coming days. obviously, we're talking first and foremost about the nationals with passports -- sorry, the dual nationals who have a foreign passport. and the egyptians have established a field hospital on the egyptian side of the rafah crossing. we're hoping that people who need the hospital attention, need health care can go there too. we're hopeful that other countries will be augmenting the egyptians and we'll see further field hospitals there on the egyptian side of the crossing. >> our understanding is that americans in large part, i know there were a few who got through today, doctors, will be crossing on thursday. can you explain why that is? and that americans, most out of gaza will be allowed to leave on thursday? >> from our point of view, this should have been done weeks ago, at the very beginning of the conflict. i remember this issue was first raised by secretary blinken here on his first visit. that was just a few days after the conflict had started. so from our point of view, this was something that we wanted to happen a while ago. it okay us a while to make this happen, primarily because hamas caused a lot of problems. only because of pressure on hamas have they agreed now for the exit of the people with the foreign passports. >> israel of course was part of the negotiations as well. there were concerns when israeli air strikes and where they were hitting. but i do want to ask you, because the idf confirmed today that the jabalya refugee camp has been hit for a second time. of course, that comes after yesterday. the idf said a strike there killed a hamas commander, but we also know it killed civilians as well. why did israel strike again here? and do you know how many civilians have been killed in this area as a result of these strikes yesterday and today? >> so we know we have taken out a senior hamas commander who was directly involved in the massacre of october 7th. as you will recall, there were rapes. there were beheadings. there were people burnt alive, burnt so badly, until today, we've got 130 bodies that we can't recognize who they are. they're just ashes. and anyone who was involved, especially a commander of the operation, we have a duty to find them and to bring them to justice. and we have meted out very, very speedy justice with this individual. >> but to the question of why did israel strike a second time today, and do you have an estimate of how many civilians were killed as a result of these strikes yesterday and today? >> so i can't tell you. i know that we've hit senior hamas commanders, and we've hit many hamas terrorists. that's our goal. in the jabalya camp, subterranean, pictures are only showing what's above ground, for obvious reasons. but underneath there, you have a spiderweb of tunnels, of bunkers, of fortifications, an underground city which hamas has built over the years, stealing the cement and electricity and so forth from the people of gaza. and in building the fortifications, that's an integral part of their military machine. and we're to be destroy that military machine. if we need to they tack it again, we'll attack it again. >> okay. but you're not acknowledging how many -- i assume israel does have an estimate of how many civilians were killed. i assume you have an estimate of how many civilians are there when you make a strike. tell me if that's wrong. when you decide on striking military targets, that you say are military targets but are also where civilians are? how many civilian deaths are acceptable in an air strike if it is a military target? >> we try to keep collateral damage to a minimum. this location has been largely, not totally, but largely evacuated because we were telling people two there two weeks ago or longer that they should evacuate that area, that there will be fighting. and that whole area around gaza city, including the refugee camp, about 800,000 people have moved to the south as we requested, and more so in the last few days as the grand operation started. so we think there are still civilians in the area. we're make aggregate effort to distinguish between them and hamas. the good news is the huge civilian population that used to be there has vacated. >> do you know how many were killed? >> i can't tell you exactly because i don't know. >> what about an estimate? >> of course, the numbers that come out from the hamas-controlled ministry of health are of course high, but we don't believe them. >> so what number do you believe? >> never hit a single terrorist, we only hit civilians. that's of course mendacious. >> you don't believe their number. i obviously understand why. it's controlled by hamas that is putting out these figures. but what number -- i haven't heard a number from israel. >> we can't give you a precise number, and i don't want to give a number irresponsibly. i can say the following. most of the civilians left that location before we struck. i'm not denying there are a few there. but we've hit a primary hamas target. we've taken out a hamas leader. we've taken out many, many hamas fighters. that was the goal of our operation. and casualties, if there were civilian casualties, surely that has to be based on hamas. the geneva convention is clear. if a combatant turns a civilian area into a war zone, in other words, if he has placed his military machine inside a civilian neighborhood, he has in fact endangered the civilians, because according to the geneva convention, the additional protocol, article 13, by doing so he has made it a legitimate target. even though we have a legal right to do so, under the laws of war to attack a legitimate hamas target, we still made an effort to tell all the civilian, please vacate the location. and i'm happy to tell you that the overwhelming majority of gaza civilians in that location have in fact left. the number of civilians there is small. we don't want to hurt them. >> i will say, ambassador, a lot of them feel like they don't have places to go. certainly not safe places. as far as what israel is doing on the ground in gaza, the military said earlier today that israeli ground forces, they have advanced to the gates of gaza ci city. are israeli force inside gaza city right now? >> i can't answer that question. we're not giving those sort of operational details out publicly for obvious reasons because hamas is watching also cnn, and they want any information they can about where our forces are and what our operations are upcoming. we won't let that sort of information out, other than to say we are committed to the mission. we'll destroy hamas' military machine. we'll do everything we can to get our hostages out, and we will push this through to the end. and the end is the end of hamas ruling gaza and the destruction of the military machine. we will not allow. we simply not allow again the sort of massacre that they perpetrated against us on october 7th. never again. we'll prevent that from happening by destroying their capacity, their capability to inflict that sort of massacre on our people. >> it's very clear that israeli -- your military is saying they're on the ground there. we've seen them going into gaza in the second phase of this campaign. can you explain why israel is hesitant, or is not -- is refusing to call it a ground invasion? >> well, we've obviously got ground forces inside the gaza strip. i think what we call it is immaterial. if you want to call it invasion, you can call it what you want. but we are there on the ground to take on hamas, to defeat hamas, to end the rule of hamas in gaza. and ultimately, our objective is of course good for israel, because we're going to free the people of southern israel from this constant threat of this isis type terrorist organization. but at the same time, i ultimately believe that it's good for the people of gaza too who deserve better. for 16 years hamas has ruled gaza. and what have they brought for the people of gaza? only suffering, pain, and impoverishment. the people of gaza deserve better, surely. >> ambassador mark regev, thank you for your time tonight. >> thank you for having me. one of the americans who was lucky to make it out of gaza today, a seattle doctor, a volunteer who was making prosthetics for children in gaza is safe tonight. her nephew is here with me next. also today, here in new york, donald trump jr. was on the stand in the fraud trial that is threatening his father's business empire. what prosecutors wanted to know from him and what he told them. that's also ahead. tonight, two american doctors who were stranded in gaza have been safely evacuated into egypt. one of them is 71-year-old dr. ramona okumura, who left gaza through the rafah border crossing early this morning. she is a retired pediatric orthopedic specialist from seattle. she has been making prosthetics for children and teaching others how to make them for the last seven years as a volunteer. her nephew shared with us her last text she sent just as she was arriving into egypt. it reads, quote, love to everyone who helped me get out. pray for the people of gaza who now don't have us as shields from harm. good night. and her nephew nicholas payne joins us now. i'm so glad you're here. it must be such a relief to know that she is safe, that she is coming home and she was able to make it out. >> yeah, thank you first for having me. and i mean, there is just this weight lifted off of me. the weight has been lifted off the entire family, that every single da

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