atlanta is the only facility in the u.s. that has giant pandas, but it too could soon lose them. wolf? >> brian todd reporting. thanks, brian, very much. "erin burnett outfront" starts "erin burnett outfront" starts right now. -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com "outfront" next, ivanka trump doesn't recall the former trump org executive vice president under oath repeatedly saying she didn't remember key details about the family business she ran. with me tonight a top trump business reporter who was there in the courtroom, former trump white house lawyer ty cobb and omarosa manigault newman. plus, israel tonight says it's destroyed 130 hamas tunnel shafts. we have a special report of what's inside those tunnels. the spider web crisscrossing underneath gaza, and what that underground warfare looks like right now as the death toll mounts in gaza. and trump's opening up about a potential vp pick. could it be that guy? let's go "outfront." and good evening. i'm erin burnett. "outfront" tonight, i don't recall. those three words were ivanka trump's most used on the witness stand today in the new york fraud trial against her father and brothers. a trial that could put an end to the trump family business. ivanka trump who was not a defendant because of the statute of limitations said that she struggled to remember basic important details about the finances of the business she ran. for example, when asked if she discussed trump's finances during a meeting with government officials about acquiring the trump d.c. hotel, she said, quote, i don't recall. it's worth mentioning in this context that she, of course, was the person in trump of the trump d.c. hotel deal. in fact, ivanka trump played a crucial role, not just that d.c. post office that became a trump hotel but trump's doral golf resort. executive vice president for development and acquisitions at the trump organization was her title. so of course it does seem to defy basic reality to not recall. but that is exactly what she said when she was asked what might be the most basic question. did she ever help review or value assets? her answer, she does not recall. again, she was in charge of development and acquisition. so reviewing and valuing assets is core to the entire job. in fact, ivanka trump served as a primary contact for deutsche bank, the trump organization's largest lender, organization at the heart of this. attorney general letitia james took note of ivanka trump's responses. >> ivanka trump was cordial. she was disciplined. she was controlled. and she was very courteous. but her testimony raises some questions with regards to its credibility. >> ivanka trump was key in the loop, a central player, something that her father loved to brag about. >> ivanka is really in charge of that one. and she's done an amazing job. and it's going to be one of the most beautiful -- >> one of the reasons i think ivanka can tell you this is that we had a better concept because that was a highly sought-after project. ivanka, don, eric, they are very, very ensconced in the company. >> ensconced. in a 2013 interview with "forbes," trump went on to say of ivanka, quote, she was always a natural-born dealmaker, but she's become a very good builder and manager. ivanka trump's role, in fact, did expand, in part, because she built a brand on knowing small but important details about the project she was working on over many years i would hear this about people who interacted with her, specifics about room rates and details about hotels. just listen to her, herself, when she was talking about the deal to convert that old post office in washington into a trump hotel. >> we're going to develop super luxury hotel, 272 rooms. the largest ballroom of any of the luxury hotels in all of d.c. unbelievable meeting space, unbelievable spas, restaurants, and really bring in tremendous amounts of life and vitality to pennsylvania avenue and to obviously the hotel itself. >> which is why just one example that prosecutors say her testimony of not recalling didn't add up. but when she claims she could no longer remember basic details about that project's financial statements. well, ivanka trump's business practices, along with those of the rest of her family, have long, though, raised questions. we investigated trump's businesses back when he was president for a documentary here on cnn. i spoke to andrea bernstein, a top investigative reporter who's been covering trump's finances for over a decade. listen to what she said about new york's trump hotel condominium. >> similar story in soho. in june 2008, ivanka trump told reporters that 60% of the units there had sold. court documents later showed the real number was closer to 15%. >> there were emails between the younger generation of trumps, ivanka and don jr. and the wledd that they realized that the building was not 60% sold. but they went ahead and said it anyway. >> so they lied? >> so, they lied about how many units were sold. >> all right. in a moment i'm going to speak to andrea because she was in that courtroom today. also with me former trump white house lawyer ty cobb and omarosa manigault newman, who served in the trump white house and spent a lot of time over the years with ivanka trump. i want to begin, though, with paula reid because she has been covering this case from the very beginning. so, paula, obviously, this was important testimony because, obviously, you've got the trump family testifying. but in this case ivanka trump was not technically a defendant because of the statute of limitations. but she was a witness. did she move the needle at all in the case today? >> well, good evening, erin. ivanka tried many times many different ways to avoid having to make this appearance today. but once she was on the witness stand, she was far less combative than her father and her brothers have been when questioned. but given her evasiveness, it's not clear if she was helpful for the state's case. ivanka trump breezed past cameras inside a new york courthouse wednesday, not saying a word. ahead of her testimony in the state's $250 million civil fraud trial against her father and his company, new york attorney general letitia james addressed reporters before the proceedings. >> ivanka trump secured, negotiated loans to obtain favorable terms based on fraudulent statements. >> reporter: but on the stand, ivanka repeatedly said she didn't recall when she was pressed for details about several projects she worked on before she left the trump organization in 2017. including the old post office in washington, d.c., which was converted into a trump hotel. a deal her father says ivanka spearheaded. >> i'm honored to be here today to support my family and especially my daughter ivanka for her dedication to this project. >> reporter: during her testimony, ivanka said she did not recall when asked about a deficiency letter sent by the government requesting clarity on how the trump organization reported its finances, including her father's financial statements. >> my father trained my siblings and me to see things not for what they are but for what they can be. this is a great example of that. >> reporter: the hotel was sold in 2022. and ivanka testified she profited from that sale. she was also asked about financing for trump's doral resort and spa in florida, and was confronted with an email she wrote to other trump organization employees about the bank's loan term proposal, saying, it doesn't get better than this. the bank required donald trump to maintain a $3 billion net worth to obtain favorable loan terms. but, according to an email presented in court, ivanka proposed changing the requirement to $2 billion as part of the loan negotiations, even though trump's 2011 financial statements estimated his net worth at 4.2 billion. they finally agreed to $2.5 billion, but the exchange is significant because the attorney general is accusing trump of falsifying his net worth in order to get better loan rates. ivanka trump was previously dismissed as a codefendant in this case, and in a previous deposition, she tried to distance herself from her father's financial statements. >> i don't specifically know what was prepared on his behalf for him as a person. >> reporter: and during cross-examination by her father's attorney, ivanka testified about the relationship she cultivated with the bank and their willingness to do business with trump's company. she testified the bank had tremendous excitement to have our account. now trump's lawyers will have the chance to put on a defense that's expected to give next week. we've got a little preview of how they'll approach this during their cross-examination. it's clear they are going to emphasize how the banks were all repaid, there is no victim here. but it's unclear that that will be enough to sway this judge. remember, there's no jury here, they're focused now on the penalties after this judge found them liable for fraud. one of the things on the line here is the trump organization's ability to do business in the state of new york. >> all right, paula, thank you very much. and always worth, as we go to andrew bernstein here, remembering that both sides of this trial agreed to it being this way, trump agreed to having a judge in charge and not a jury. so this is what they all chose to do. andrea bernstein is "outfront," the latest podcast on the courts from propublica as well as on the media. you were in court today and you've been there for the trump's testimony but here for ivanka. did anything surprise you? >> i want to say her testimony surprised me. however, some of the detailed documents that they got into evidence today were illuminating. she was trying hard to get loans for these properties, chicago, doral in florida, the post office in washington, d.c. was corresponding with various bankers and there were emails that came in where she was basically getting rebuffed by the commercial real estate divisions by these banks where some of the bankers were saying to her, this was right after the financial crisis, not long after, and they were saying we don't -- there is not a lot of investor interest in what they called hospitality paper, that is loans for hotels and resorts. >> right. >> and they were offering her rates of maybe around 9%. and she was in touch with a number of bankers, and then her husband jared kushner introduces her to a woman who was formerly at deutsche bank in charge of the personal wealth portfolio, private client division, it's for high-net-worth clients. they offer her a rate that is so low that ivanka says i don't even want to negotiate this because there's no way we can do better. it was somewhere around 2%. and the catch was they had to guarantee it with donald trump's statement of personal financial worth, and that he had to repeatedly certify that he was worth what he said. so she made that agreement, they got this much better rate with that guarantee. but the underlying statement -- >> and that's right. but also just to point out, i guess what you're saying is the documents spoke for themselves. she may not have recalled, but that's all on paper in black and white. >> she said about every document, i don't remember, i don't specifically recall. but there she was with this, in black and white, and what was so interesting is that the minute she was asked about, okay, well, what about these statements of financial conditions, i don't recall, i have nothing to do with that, which is essentially the same as her father and brother said. donald trump sort of admitted maybe he had some input. the other two who were in charge of the company and are to this day basically said, oh, that wasn't us, that was on the accountant. and you think, well, who was running this very large international -- >> and of course she's running the trump international hotel in d.c. deal. so if you're going to be certifying something to get a loan for that and you're in charge of that, of course, you would be responsible for the certification. >> and this illusion to the old post office meeting and she was, like, i don't remember anything about their questions to us, but she did remember the name of the architect, the name of the individual from the trump organization who would made a presentation what her father said about the plaza hotel. all these other details, but not -- >> selective amnesia. >> the attorney general said ivanka trump was cordial, disciplined, controlled, very courteous. >> she said that before she testified. >> okay. so she was on brand. you got what you expected in that regard. but letitia james said her testimony raises questions with regards to its credibility, the voracity question. was that your impression? >> i do think that she is obviously someone who is in charge of the details and she acknowledged them. she talked about 700 units at doral, she talked about the spa. we just saw her talking about the old post office. very familiar in painting a picture over these developments. but then when it came to being questioned about the underlying financials, not so much. >> all right. and, as i said, i've known over the years people in casual dinners with her says she knows every square foot, every number and she prided herself upon that. let's go now to the former trump white house lawyer ty cobb. what is the impact of ivanka's testimony today as you see it? >> i see it as totally inconsequential and perhaps a tactical error by the prosecutors, because they didn't get any evidence in that they didn't really already have. as you said, the documents really spoke for themselves. now, there was a little theater, of course. but i'm concerned as a former prosecutor and somebody who believes you can't -- just because of donald trump's big lie and his crimes and the many tragic things that he's done and the damage he's done to the country, you can assess him one way, but you, i think, fairly have to assess each of the other individuals associated with them on their own merits. and i don't think ivanka added anything to the evidentiary circumstances. >> so, ty, do you think they could have introduced those emails and done that without her testimony, as andrea's saying, the things that prove the rates that were being offered for loans were 9% and that incomes deutsche bank with this miraculous 2% and they're like, giddy-up, let's go, don't ask questions. >> yeah, exactly. because that's exactly what would happen. the chronology is they went through the real estate group and tried that route. but, as you pointed out, there's a separate division for high-wealth individuals so they went that route. they get better terms. the negotiations over the net worth, that was clearly laid out in a series of emails. and i think, as i recall, one of the emails between her and the lawyers, she was content to leave it at three and the lawyers negotiated it down ultimately to 2 1/2, which is, of course, what you would want in order to maintain flexibility in the event of a market crash or a liquidity issue. so it's not unusual to negotiate that term. i guess i'm concerned only because i look at what trump's real goal is to turn this into -- >> political scapegoating. >> yeah, political scapegoating and his insistence that this is, you know, part of a witch hunt, and he's being unfairly attacked. and the fact that she really didn't add much, i'm afraid that sort of feeds that theme. he'll certainly use it that way and i hate to see him get away with that. i didn't view anything she said as, you know, as particularly significant legally, and i'm concerned that the politics of it, you know, may favor trump and his attorneys' efforts to pretend to be victims. >> and, to your point, ty, the point that you're making on that, obviously the way she handled herself is very differently than how trump himself handled it. letitia james made the comment about ivanka's performance before she even did her performance. it was so on brand, it was so consistent. okay. cordial and polite. >> and then she criticized her afterwards. and i have to say that's playing from an ethics book that, as a former prosecutor, i'm not familiar with in the middle of the trial. >> well, do you think trump himself learns anything from the way ivanka handled himself? >> he didn't learn anything. he doesn't have ivanka's intelligence or discipline, in my own view. and the truth is the interesting thing is there is no evidence and they presented her with none that she actually was involved with the financials. so the fact that she didn't recall being consistent with the financials. trump reviewed the financials and talked about making changes. that is a stunning admission that i think is very damning and legally very consequential. so, i think -- i don't think you'll see ivanka again in the case, but i'm sure you'll see trump and several of his officers and directors. so, it'll be interesting. but i just hate to see him get away with playing the victim, which i think today gave him an opportunity to do. >> all right, ty cobb, thank you very much. and, next -- >> my pleasure. >> is about to speak after his daughter just testified in new york. he wants to have his stay even tonight. also "outfront," former "apprentice" contestant omarosa manigault newman. the united states retaliating, tonight carrying out a series of strikes in syria in response to attacks on american forces. and three giant pandas now going back to china from the national zoo in washington. ahead of schedule. and this matters. china uses its pandas to send a crcrucial diplplomatic mesessag the e world. all right. these are live pictures of florida. there's a debate, but this is actually a trump rally. his son don jr. is speaking right now. his business empire hanging in the balance, the new york attorney general's office did rest the case today with that testimony from ivanka trump. and kristen holmes is "outfront." so, kristen, trump is going to speak. obviously this trial goes at the heart of every single thing by which he defines himself and his life and his success. so, what are you expecting tonight? >> yeah, erin. look, we're likely going to hear about the trial for two reasons. it has consumed him, it goes to the core of who he is. he's angry about the fact that ivanka had to testify but also because who he's speaking to tonight and the voters he is trying to court, particularly cuban voters. donald trump has painted his legal problems as political persecution. he believes that that will help him with hispanic voters which are going to be very critical in the general election. erin, i have to say, former president trump has had the general election on his mind and still believes he's going to be the nominee. he was even asked today about what he would do about a specific person, if they consider him as a runningmate. >> would you consider tucker, though? >> i like tucker a lot. i think i say i would because he's got great common sense. >> reporter: now, that was the first time i have heard that. and, as you know, erin, i talked to trump's campaign advisers on a regular basis, but donald trump is one to want to stoke a show to put forward something that people will talk about. so, there it was, tucker carlson. it would be very interesting. as far as what i've been told by campaign advisers there's no one on a short list yet. it's all just up in the air. >> right. it would be whatever he thinks opportunistically thinks would make sense. kristen is there at that rally, this comes just hours after ivanka trump's testimony, when she said she did not recall the key details at the center of big business deals on financial loans that she was in charge of. ivanka trump has boasted on the record about how involved she was in the business. she wrote in her of one book, quote, i was donald trump's eyes and ears on the board as i was at the trump organization and on h