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"ac 360" starts now. -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com who and when? those are the two key questions at this moment, as we wait for the release of women and children taken hostage on october 7th. john berman in for anderson. first, the when, which we thought was just a few hours away, a temporary pause in fighting between israeli forces in hamas followed by the release of the first 50 hostages from gaza and 150 palestinians being held in israel. late today, however, israel's national security counscil -- will not start until friday. this includes the pause in fighting, also delayed until friday. as to the question of who, a source familiar with the matter tells us that the u.s. officials have a working list of ten hostages they believe are likely to be released on day one of the process. and though no one is publicly naming the ten, administration officials today did talk specifically about three americans being held. >> we anticipate that three americans will come home. one is the toddler, abigail, and two other american women. and of course we have about ten total americans unaccounted for. but we're not going to rest here. >> abigail is abigail e dan. she is three years old but is about to turn four. her birthday is friday. both of her parents were killed by hamas gunmen on the 7th. in a moment i'm going to speak with the daughter of two hostages, both seniors. her mother is an american citizen. we begin, though, with "the source's" kaitlan collins, and clarissa ward, both reporting from tel aviv tonight. kaitlan, i want to start with you on this delay. no hostages released until friday at the earliest. why the delay? >> reporter: it seems to really, john, just speak to the fluidity of all of this and the fact that they are still figuring out a lot of details here operationally at least behind the scenes. one reason we are told in part that this delay is happening is that israel has not gotten the actual list of the names. the white house has been saying they have a working list of who they believe to be expected among the first hostages to be released. but israel itself does not have a concrete list of the names yet. that is just one factor of what's happening behind the scenes right now, as they're also just trying to figure out operationally what this is going to look like, how these hostages are going to be released in what was slated to be a six-hour period starting tomorrow. now we're told it's going to start friday at the earliest. officials have been saying behind the scenes they're confident this deal is moving forward. they don't think things are falling apart. there is certainly a delay, and one for the families of these hostages who are waiting to see if it's their loved ones waiting to be released tomorrow, this is not welcomed news to them. >> what is known so far about which hostages will be released? >> basically what we know, john, is that the emphasis is supposedly on children and particularly very young children. there are preschoolers. there is a 10-month-old baby currently being held hostage. there's the 3-year-old american girl, abigail aidan, who you mentioned. and also the emphasis is on their mothers, potentially. according to the israeli government, some 40 children under the age of 18 are currently being held in gaza. we don't know which ones would be released on which day. and certainly the families who are anxiously waiting for more news also don't know. but it is important to underscore, i think, as kaitlan was saying. the qataris were saying -- and obviously they're big players in this whole negotiation -- up until the last minute they think that list will come out tonight. so, it does not appear, at least on the surface, that there's any real breakdown going on here. but there are a huge amount of moving parts. and this is a very complex operation. you're going to be talking about people being released in egypt potentially, returned to israel through three different check points. and when you have so many moving parts, it can take a lot of time to lock down those details. s kaitlan, can you talk more about that, these operational details you mentioned. what is known about how this will work logistically? >> we are told right now at least for those initial ten hostages -- and maybe this could change as they are going through this because it is expected to be about ten people on day one and then ten successive groups of ten in the days that follow, as this fighting is paused. but what we're told is that they will be taken to rafah. that is where they're going to meet israeli military officers. john, from there they will be transferred into israel, into custody. it's not until they have their identities confirmed by the israeli military officials that the families will even be notified. that's another wrinkle in this is that the families don't know who is coming out first. they can make guesses, based on the fact, like clarissa said, it's women, it's children, and it's a parent of an idf soldier or a male, they're not expected to be the first ones released. i think it's still operational a question of what that's going to look like. a lot of this we've seen for the transfers of those who have come out happen in the middle of the night when it's dark outside. the window we were told is 10:00 a.m. to 4:00 p.m. local, which is when the sun sets here in israel. i think those are the questions that are by no means concrete at this point, john. >> clarissa, you've been speaking directly with many of the families of hostages. we're going to hear more about that later in the program. how much information have they been getting from the israeli government? >> i have to say, john, it's really striking just how little information they've been getting. and you can understand that the israeli government doesn't want to get people's hopes up. but the families we were talking to today literally told us they learned about this through the news, through television, through messages popping up on their phones. and they do have liaisons, if you will, from the israeli government, who have been dealing with them. but there's been a lot of confusion from the get-go. i mean, take the example of thomas hand. this is an irishman, who lived in the kibbutz be'eri, for more than 30 years. his daughter, emily, who was eight years old on october 7th, went over to a sleepover in another house in the kibbutz. obviously the carnage that ensued. and afterwards, he was told that his daughter was dead. and he went through that process of mourning, only to be told a couple of weeks later that actually they believed she was alive. when i spoke to him today, he said, listen, i'm not getting my hopes up. i can't go on that emotional roller coaster, and i'm not going to believe anything until i see her with my own eyes. >> just excruciating. clarissa ward, kaitlan collins, a very long day. kaitlan, we're looking forward to seeing you on the top of the hour. to underscore this delay, it can't be easy for the families of the hostages. take a lock. these are the parents of our next guest, going out for their morning walk on kibbutz nir oz. both were shot and wounded just moments later. the ambulance that might have responded could not reach them because hamas gunmen had shot out the tires. iris joins us now. iris, thank you so much for joining us. your reaction when you heard there will be no hostages released until at least friday now? >> to be honest, you know, same as many, many families. i'll believe it when i see it. that's how i'm reacting right now, even when the whole deal, you know, was popping in the media and stuff. i was -- i always told everybody, listen, this is not the first deal i've heard about. i'll believe it when i see it. of course my heart is pumping. i'm waiting. you know, i heard these rumors about three american citizens being released. but i didn't get anything official. the fbi didn't tell me anything like that. so, to me, i'm just, you know, i did actually -- i was supposed to go to israel saturday and going to fly in today just because i feel like it should be there right now. but, you know, i'm hopeful. but at the same time, i'm, kind of, numb. but what can i do but hope for the best? what can i do really? >> what's it been like waiting for any word on your parents? and we should note, your mother has u.s., canadian, and israeli citizenship. >> there's no words to describe this crazy nightmare, honestly. basically all the information i have about my parents mostly came from us, the family. you know, we don't have any intelligence about my mother. i actually don't know if she's even alive, to be honest. i have no proof of life. my dad, we don't have the body. we believe the body is hostage. but i do believe he was murdered that day. and, yeah, you know, the not knowing, the misinformation, the deal after deal that's been in the media. it's a psychological war basically. hamas knows what it's doing. and it's just messing with our hearts, with our brains. you know, my parents were all about peace and mindfulness and health. you know, everybody in my kibbutz, nir oz, they just lived a peaceful life. and one day the whole community was erased. so, it's just, while i'm grieving my dad, i don't have a body. and while i heard what's going on with them, i'm also hearing about my friends being kidnapped, about her two boys, just everybody. i know a quarter of the hostages. so, honestly i'm just speaking to you, i have goosebumps. but it's just a nightmare. i can't believe it's 49 days. it's been 49 days, and i don't know if my mother is alive. that's crazy. >> it's beyond that. it really is. i can't imagine what it's like to go through all this. we're talking about your father, who you believe was murdered. now, as of now, men aren't being talked about in terms of the release, at least this first traunch, this first 50 people. but the red cross, we are told, will be allowed in to meet with the hostages. do you have hopes that maybe when the red cross goes in you'll get some more concrete information about your father? >> about my father, i'm more hopeful because i pretty much know he was murdered. of course it would be nice to have some kind of proof that i could bury him and, kind of, close that chapter. but my mom, for sure, i would love to know if she's even alive. and all of my friends who are there right now, you know? any proof of life. we don't even know who's there honestly, and we just found out that hamas doesn't even know where all the children are, where all the mothers are. that's the reason that elderly women are being released because they don't know where all the women and children are -- sorry, where all the mothers and children are. so, you know, i heard you talking about things not being consistent and that the israeli government won't tell us until the day when they actually have the hostages. but it's such a huge, huge situation. you can't really trust the organization, the terrorists, that you're dealing with. so, i believe the israeli government is trying to be cautious because, you know, they just want to see the first day things are actually happening the way that they are supposed to. and i believe after that, we will told the day before about the list, as soon as they get them. that's what we were told. but i do believe the first day, they should be cautious because you never know. you never know. >> i understand. >> you never know. >> if by some chance your mother can see this tonight, can watch you right now, what would you want her to know? >> mommy, i want you to know that we're doing everything we can to get you back. you know, your grandchildren are waiting for you, everybody's waiting for you, waiting to hug you so tight. and i just want to protect you and make you feel like everything's all right. and don't give up. we're coming for you. we're coming. >> iris, thank you. thank you for being with us. i hope you get the news you've been waiting for the next few days. we really appreciate it. >> thank you. thank you so much. let's get perspective from michael oren, the former israeli ambassador to the united states. ambassador, you've been sitting next to watching this. >> i don't know how you can go on after that. i don't know if i can. this confusion, why is there confusion? as iris just said, we're dealing with a terrorist organization. terrorist organizations do not negotiate in good faith. they move the football. they will play with the emotions of israelis. they'll torture israelis. it's part of their terror. it's actually part of their tragedy. they want to divide the israeli people, by releasing some hostages but keeping other hostages. the israeli government maybe has a list but even if it has the list, doesn't want to let the people know, because the hamas could change it at the last minute. how do you deal with a family that has been informed their child is getting out and they're not there. it's part of the hamas strategy, to terrorize, to terrorize. even now, they're letting out, say, 50, and getting five days of a ceasefire. and we've talked repeatedly about the danger of a ceasefire. it means basically hamas gets away with mass murder. hamas is going to use that period to lay more booby traps, to move equipment around. it's going to cost israel as far as a soldier's life. these decisions are more excruciating than anybody could imagine. >> so, our reporters right now are hearing from people inside the israeli government that they're not particularly concerned about this delay. it's just part of the process, working out the operational issues right now. do you think the delay is the sign of something bigger than that. >> i think the delay is what hamas is about. we actually know how they get the release. they go to the egyptian crossing at rafah. they're brought to an israeli hospital. it's not rocket science. it's been done already. you bring ten shocked children or ten old people to the border and you do it. it shouldn't be that complicated. some of them are in the hands of palestinian islamic jihad, an organization -- but many are in the hands of families. hundreds, perhaps thousands of palestinians broke through the fence on october 7th with the terrorists. they took hostages. this is well known. they will then sell those hostages. they can sell them to hamas or they sell them directly to israel or to another, a third party. but maybe hamas doesn't know where they all are. that is definitely an issue. but hamas itself is about torture. it's about terror. and that's what they're doing to israeli society right now. >> one of the deals, one of the aspects of the deals -- it was in writing. it was read to us and translated from he brew to english. after this first 50 are released, if that goes according to plan, then if hamas releases ten hostages a day, israel will abide by the pause in the fighting. do you think that's dangerous to give hamas the opportunity to keep on turning over hostages? >> it is, of course, dangerous. but it's worth it. israel has to on one hand defend itself, defend the country, restore its internal security because we have 250,000 people who can't go back to their homes. we have homeless people too. but you have to weigh that against the commitment of the jewish state, the state of israel, to always bring back prisoners. i was in the army for many years. my kid versus been in the army. and we know that when we send our children out to battle, if they, god forbid, fall prisoner, the state will do everything to get it back. it's part of the covenant with the state. we're up against a terrible situation of security for soldiers but also living up to the covenant of bringing hostages home. historically, i don't know of any government that's made the choice like that. at the end of the day, hamas will not release all the hostages for the simple reason they know, once it releases the last ten hostages, then israel can go into those tunnels, flood them with water, flood them with whatever flammable substance that we can find, and that will be the end of hamas. so, at the end of the day, a certain number of hostages, many soldiers, will be the get out of gaza card, free card, for hamas. >> ambassador michael oren, thank you for being with us. >> good holiday. good peaceful holiday. >> thank you. you too. next, more new reporting on the reasons for tonight's delay. also the parents of a wounded 23-year-old hostage and what they want for him and what they want him to know, as they wait for the moment when he is hopefully in their minds, once again, free. later, what first was feared to be a terrorist incident on the u.s. canadian border, and what we've learned since then about a fiery high speed car wreck and explosion. this all happened near niagra falls. as we've been reporting, the process leading to the release of 50 hostages from gaza is on hold until friday. and we're not yet clear on the exact reasons why, though one israeli official familiar with the matter tells us it comes down to, quote, very minor implementation details. with us now is axios political and policy reporter barack revie, who has been talking to his own sources about this. barack, what are you hearing about this delay? >> hi. good evening. well, you know, let's go back few hours, okay? when israeli officials convened the group of reporters and briefed them that they hope that the process of the release of the hostages will happen on thursday morning at 10:00 a.m. local. several hours passed, and israeli national security adviser puts out a statement saying the release will not happen before friday and denies there was ever any plan to release the hostages on thursday. so, as you see, there's quite a lot of confusion on the israeli side. and i think that when the mossad director went to qatar today, to doha, he found that things are not exactly as he thought and there's still a lot of gaps remaining, mainly on the operational plan of how the release is actually going to happen. meaning, who's going to do what to what time? and that's not a small issue. that's not -- it's a technical issue, but it's not a minor issue. and for now, those things are not settled yet. >> so, how sure are your sources that the hostages really will be released starting on friday? >> nobody -- okay. anybody who tells you that anything's going to happen for sure, either doesn't know or just lying to your face. and i don't think anybody can know what's going to happen because, you know, on the other side of this deal is hamas. and i think if there's someone who's sitting tonight in his bunker and having fun is hamas leader yahya sinwar, who sees, you know, this whole mess. so, i think that we cannot know for sure. we'll have to wait. we'll have to see tomorrow what happens. a lot of it is between the qataris and hamas. they'll need to, you know, settle some of those things between them. israeli -- the israelis think that within 24 hours, this whole thing will be solved and nobody will remember it and the deal will come together and be implemented. and you know, everything will be different 24 hours. but for now, this is definitely not the case. >> what about israel's continued fight against hamas? what's prime minister benjamin netanyahu saying about that now? >> it's -- and i think it's business as usual, meaning what i -- and i think you talked about it in recent days. what i hear from israeli officials is that a ceasefire will start when the first child crosses the board into israel. as long as that's not the case, there's no ceasefire. things continue as they were in the last 45 days and we see israeli air strikes, the ground operation continues. and i think israel will even try to send the message tomorrow through actions on the ground, send the message to hamas that it cannot play for time. and if there's a deal, there's a deal, and th