Transcripts For CNNW The 20240701

with collins can starts now. >> reporter: tonight, straight from the source, the supreme court getting a remarkable requests from special counsel jack smith. the high court says it will fast-track consideration of trump's claim that he's immune for prosecution in his election case. plus, rudy giuliani in court today, but the jury is set to decide how much he will pay for defamatory lives that threaten the lives of two election workers. plus, i should note that he still pushing outside the courtroom. also, a pregnant woman at the center of a flash point in america right now has just left her home state to get an abortion as the texas supreme court has just ruled against her. we'll have the latest, i'm caitlin collins, and this is the source. ♪ ♪ ♪ >> reporter: tonight, we have exclusive reporting on the trump classified documents case. a phone call that apparently is of interest to special counsel's jack smith from the former president to a former longtime employee in mar-a-lago who is there for key conversations surrounding that case. more on that important reporting in a moment, but also we have major news about the nation's highest court on jack smith second case against donald trump which the special counsel is warning could be delayed indefinitely if the justices don't intervene. he's asking them to move and to do so quickly. now, the supreme court has agreed to at least put its consideration of whether or not to hear that case on a fast track, at the heart of this is trump's argument that he's immune from prosecution. by doing this, jack smith is essentially leapfrogging past the appeals court on the matter where it was likely headed next. likely trying to beat trump at his game that we know his lawyers are at least pursuing here of delaying his legal troubles. jack smith is arguing that, quote, nothing could be more vital to our democracy than holding a former president accountable. the supreme court responded just hours after he made that filing, and gave trump's team a deadline of nine days from now. trump's claim has been the presidents are exempt from being prosecuted in federal court for crimes that were committed potentially when they were in office. he has now until december 20th to respond to this expedited asked by jack smith. he responded to jack smith's filing, unsurprisingly by criticizing him. he does so on your daily basis, saying he is, quote, attempting to bypass the appellate process. here's what is legal team has argued previously about the case. this is going to be the most important civil rights constitutional case in decades. everything that president trump did while he was in office, as a president. he is now immune from prosecution for acts that he takes in connection with those policies. that is john lauro, trump's attorney. but now trump is asking the high court to use an unusual procedure here, that has historical president because it is the same maneuver that was used for president nixon regarding his refusal to turn in tape recorders and other documents. that is when the justice rejected his claims of presidential privilege and they moved quickly so that the watergate case could keep moving. question or not if that history is applied tonight, and i'm joined by former manhattan district attorney -- junior, and former senior investigative counsel for the january six committee, timothy gunky millers. this isn't just a case about trump, it's bigger than him because if they agree to take this up, the precedent it can set. it's obviously an important step jack smith has taken. i think he has made the right call in terms of trying to expedite this, given the calendar that political calendar and the court calendar. and tim and i were talking. it's a question what the court will do but i think he's done the right thing by expediting it. i don't think the issues that jack smith presents are particularly novel. we know from nixon that a president can be investigated while in office, we know from the case i was involved in, trump v. vance, that a president can be investigated for prior -- for conduct prior to when he was in office. i don't think donald trump says he can get a fifth avenue and shoot someone while he's president and be immune from office. that prosecution might be delayed while he's president or having committed another crime, but i don't think the presidents arguments in my view really can surmount the precedent that has already been subbed in the supreme court about the constitutional protections of a president. >> reporter: clearly what the trump legal team is trying to do here is drag this out. they're going to an appeals court here. jack smith has basically trying to go over that and say eventually this is gonna go to the supreme court, i might as well go to them now. what do you make of the fact that they went in the supreme court justices responded quickly, not necessarily with what they're gonna do with the case, but to at least fast-track whether or not they will hear the case. i think it's a positive sign for jack smith. it was they're taking it seriously, the are going to ask swiftly. they mix it all the more likely that in the long term are gonna hear, it will lead to a quick resolution of this case. it's clear the former president wants to have it both ways. the forecheck, and he was asking her to basically stay all deadlines as there are going up in the circuit. trying to slow things down there. because he said he needed a higher court to rule because he would be harmed if the case went forward and he was ultimately found to have immunity. jack smith's calling his bluff. he's basically saying, if you really think you have immunity, let's go to the ultimate decider now, and i think that's a good move here. it's bold, but it's what's required. because if you have a delay here, i think it's likely that president trump will never see a day in court room if he was a presidency. >> reporter: how do you think the court sees this? you've been on the other side of the trump delaying tactic. they don't shy away from it, the openly acknowledge it. that it's a tactic of there is to delay this past the election. how do you think the supreme court looks at this? in our own experience of litigating to the supreme court and trying to obtain trump's tax returns, first of all, every court at every level treated it seriously. the district court, the pellet, court the second circuit, and the supreme court in terms of moving the case in its calendar. so i think they will treat this as a serious issue. i don't know how they come out, but i do think they will -- they understand the importance and the timing of smith's request. and i think they respect that, is my guess. but how they rule on it, in my view of looking at a supreme court president, i think it will rule on it. i don't know what they're going to. do >> reporter: that's a good question because do you think they would grant it? i think they would grant the expedited hearing, and i think on the merits -- >> reporter: they'd reject it. they'd reject -- >> reporter: that he's immune. they'd reject the immunity. >> reporter: there's a question of the makeup of who's going to be. here just like clarence thomas, there's two democratic senators, that he should -- not one side says he should recuse -- his wife, ginni thomas efforts to overturn the election, to push to overturn, it and behind this case, it's trump's case trying to overturn the election. do you think that it's unlikely? i think it's unlikely for justice thomas to recuse himself. but i think the calls to for the consideration airport pete. the committee had messages between ginni thomas and the chief of staff, mark meadows, about the very issues that president trump is charged with. and she was expressing her support for overturning the election results to mark meadows as he was -- trying to get messages to the white house. i think if you imagine the same scenario you find out for example that judge chutkan's husband was involved with these issues, i can guarantee you the former president would be calling for her to recuse herself. so i think here when you find the facts as justice here, his wife having access to the white house, she doesn't have access, in my opinion, because she was somehow -- it's because of who she is married, to which is a supreme court justice and i think it does undermine the courts independents to have justice thomas weighing in when his wife was involved in the same orbit of criminal conduct. i have a strong feeling he's not going to recuse himself. we know that part of trump's data is apparently something that jack smith, we don't know how, much but he does a part of it, he's planning to use. it in this case we're also learning something interesting in a separate case about trump 's use of the phone, cyrus, which is more reporting that three months after that search that the fbi did at mar-a-lago, this is in the other jack smith case, the florida case, trump took this unusual step of calling a longtime employee who had, quickie said he went to pursue another business matter. but he was essentially calling him repeatedly, their interactions, talking about offers of legal representation, complimentary tickets to a golf tournament. repeated reminders that he could come to work for trump. this is reporting from kaitlan pollens. why is that something that jack smith is interested in? assuming it's admissible, it's to prove that trump, under the theory, was trying to circle the wagons around all the witnesses who had relevant information. and those that he had a personal connection with. would be within that circle of wagons. i don't know the facts, but if i were -- based on as you described it, that's what i think jack smith would be doing, in response to subpoenas and response to investigation over former president -- he was reaching out in a way where, in one sense it might seem appropriate, but it's for the jury to decide what was his intent when he did that. >> reporter: it wasn't mentioned violence but we will see if it pops up anywhere else. thank you both, as always. thank you. we >> reporter: joining me now is someone who knows the way that donald trump, ticks what gets under his skin. anthony scaramucci was a brief stint as communications director for the white house. better known as the. mooch mr. scaramucci, thank you for being here. i'm curious what do you think is going through donald trump's head right. now is drought -- jack smith here, is he suppressing everyone by by passing the, postcards tree to the supreme court, and basically cutting off trumps known strategy of delaying his legal troubles? i think it's a brilliant move by jack, but if you really want to get inside the presidents mind, he is very, very worried. you have 91 counts, for big indictments. it feels like he's the all component of our current political system. meaning people think he's untouchable, just like they did with all capone, or someone like john gaudy, but they actually are not. untouchable. so he is very, very worried. i do know that he thinks because he appointed six of those -- excuse me, three of those justices, but he has six that are conservatives, i do you think he thinks he's got a good shot there. he thinks that court is politicized and will tip to his favor. obviously jack smith doesn't think that. i certainly don't think that. and i think it's a great strategy, caitlin. we'll have to see what happens. but i think the president is very worried. >> reporter: whether or not it, works when you say he's very worried, he is not out there to say that what he's staring down right now potentially is a second term as president, or if he does end up going to trial as a schedule right now for one of these cases, this one that's at the heart of this in march, that he could be potentially facing a prison sentence if they are successful in a conviction. is that all he's thinking about at this point do you think? i do, and i also think that mark meadows, were leaving that out of the equation. but this is not -- he's not able to say on certain things that this is a witch hunt by democratic leadership, or democratic district attorneys are attorney generals. and so forth. he's not able to say that. you have one of the key witnesses brand the freedom caucus and was his last chief of staff. so that's right inside the wheelhouse. that's another reason why he's worried about these people and have access to his phone, where he's talked to on the phone. caitlin, you covered him for a long time. and you had sources inside the white house that were always concerned about the president morality and his judgment relating to what was legal and what wasn't legal. and i think jack has evidence that proves a lot of you legality on the part of the president. so the question i was going -- i would love to ask cyrus or others is are they able to submit proof of what the president did to the supreme court, or is this a procedural case in front of the court in terms of what's going on with immunity while your president. i think that's the issue because if jack comes out this, with five or six smoking guns, i'm wondering what justice who wants there to be impartiality and wants to preserve the american democracy, how they would feel about those facts if the unfolded. >> reporter: would you like to weigh in? sure. >> reporter: i'm curious about your thought of that as well. i think the supreme court today is a very different than the when we appeared before several years ago. it is as scaramucci said, three now trump appointees. i like to believe, even though i think the supreme court has been perceived as perhaps the most political court in the country rather than the least, i like to believe that the justices will call it as they see it under the law, in my own personal view is that the issue is presidential immunity in this case are not that unclear. and i think if they follow the law that's been -- that started with mixed, and went through clinton, went through trump's last -- to the supreme court, they will conclude that as some have said before, no one's above the law, no president stands immune from investigation to prosecutions, once he or she is no longer in office. when you are in office, it's a different perhaps -- different kettle of fish, because you have a country that the citizenry has elected you lead. when you leave that office, you lose those immunities. >> reporter: we will see what they decide. thank you very much for that question, scaramucci. thank you very much for joining us as well. ahead, major developments in the case that we have been following here closely of a pregnant women in texas. she sued to have an emergency abortion, the texas supreme court has just waited in a ruling against. her disposition now to leave the state because of her health. also, jailed russian opposition leader alexei navalny, missing according to his attorneys. more on the mystery of his whereabouts, coming up. ♪ ♪ ♪ it's been a dramatic turn an attack this woman is at the center of a legal fight to end her high-risk pregnancy. kate cox is doctors say that her unborn child has a fatal genetic condition and will not survive and that her own health is also at risk. she has been in and out of the emergency room, we are told by her attorneys, and now they say that she is left of the state of texas to have the emergency abortion procedure elsewhere. that came just hours before we learned that the texas supreme court tonight ruled against her. reversing a judge's ruling last week that gave her permission to seek an abortion, to have an exception there. joining me tonight is aaron burrow, you know her well as part of the cnn family, but still has her own personal experience about what women, just like kate cox, are going through and she joins me now. i'm so glad that you're here, especially given what we've just heard from the texas supreme court and i want to read part of it for people who haven't said -- who haven't read it, and they said in this that no one disputes that her pregnancies been extremely complicated. she said any parent would be devastated to know that her -- some difficulties and pregnancy, however. even serious ones do not pose a heightened risk to the mother, to the exception in compasses. what do you make of that? you know, i have so many feelings right now. i am heartbroken for this mother. i am infuriated, and i am indignant as a woman, at the idea that was texas, and state capitals, all sorts of states, and judges who are not doctors, are questioning what the medical advice for this women's. look, caitlin, i had the news given to me that i had an ectopic pregnancy. that means the fetus is not viable and that means that if you don't terminate the pregnancy, you could die in the process. so i know what it's like to get the heart-wrenching news, her news is much worse. she's 21 weeks pregnant with, she's fighting for her life, she's fighting for her fertility. making her -- taking away her choice, taking her way her right, taking away her ability to get health care in her own state, i heard a lot of people say online, cavalierly -- why don't you go to another state? do you know what it's like to have to terminate a wanted pregnancy and not be able to go and they down in your own bed, not be able to go cry into your own pillow, not be able to lean on your friends and your family and your village? when you live? not being able to see your doctors, to have to go out of state, stay in a hotel, incur that cost? incur those extra days of missing work? do people understand what that takes, having to leave your village in order to have to go back for your life and can take care of your own health somewhere else? that's cruel. that is inhumane. that is certainly not american, and it is certainly not god's will. shame on those politicians in texas telling this woman which he can or cannot do. and i want to remind america that it's not just texas, it's also doubled orban in florida, the woman who had a fetus, who had a baby that had no kidneys. and that was told that her child would certainly die, and she couldn't get an abortion in florida and had to hold the baby for 90 minutes as a big gasp for air and died in her arms. there's 14 other states that have laws like this, that are incredibly restrictive. so for people who think this is just texas, or this is just florida, no, every women in america should be indignant at the idea of politicians are telling us and telling doctors what to do. criminalizing doctors? chrome manila zing doctors? criminalizing women? where do we live, is this [inaudible] it's horrendous. >> reporter: i just want to say first off, thank you for showing -- sharing that. i know there are a lot of other aying it out loud i think is really powerful. and when you talk about what a woman goes through who has to have this procedure, what it means in the aftermath of that, you know -- she left the state of texas state to get this procedure, they're a lot of women who can't afford to leave their own states. i think that -- there are lot of women who can't afford to get out of state, to somewhere that they can get this procedure. we that's, right listen, the woman i mentioned in florida, deborah dorbert, could not afford to get out of state. we do people understand the amount of people who don't have the savings to be able to one day or another -- it requires looking for a doctor out of state, it requires paying for travel, it requires paid for -- in your home state, it requires staying in a hotel, staying somewhere as we recover. this is not like getting your nails done. these are procedures that require days off and recovery, and you're doing it what, in a hotel, in a different state? and in some of these states, in places like florida, in places like texas in the southeast coast, you have to drive thousands of miles to get to a state where you might be able to get this done. it just -- it is cruel, it is callous to think that you could go to another state. this, and we may not have seen the end of this because in texas, annie yahoo can press charges against this woman. any yahoo can bring suits against women and criminalize this woman, or criminalize anybody who may have helped her in doing this. it is absurd, i feel like i'm reading a chapter of the handmaid's tale i cannot believe this is the united states of america, and 2023, and i have the women who are feeling like i do today do not forget this and carry this indignation and this anger, and this infuriation to the balance and to the voting, because those people, mostly men in state capitals who are telling us what we can and cannot do deserve to be voted out. >> reporter: and a navarro, again, thank you for showing that personal story with us and everybody. thank you for coming on tonight. up next, ukrainian president zelenskyy has just returned to washington. he has key me tinge on his schedule tomorrow, he's hoping to rescue -- a stalled aid package. republican senators including my next guests will be critical to the potential outcome. [upbeat music] ♪♪ ♪♪ new pork carnitas. only at el pollo loco. first time i connected with kim, she told me that her husband had passed. and that he took care of all of the internet connected devices in the home. i told her, “i'm here to take care of you.” connecting with kim... made me reconnect with my mom. it's very important to keep loved ones close. we know that creating memories with loved ones brings so much joy to your life. a family trip to the team usa training facility. i don't know how to thank you. i'm here to thank you. (♪♪) (♪♪) the new festive family meal. starting at $24. now celebrating at el pollo loco. what you're seeing here is what ukrainians live in fear of. a russian missile strike destroyed this home, not on some remote battlefield. this is at the heart of ukraine, right in the capital of kyiv, what you're seeing here. in the east, ukrainian troops have been pushing the russians back with improvised drones, but their weapons to fight off president putin's forces are dwindling, as negotiations in washington over more funding have stalled amid republican demands for immigration changes to be included. >> translator: i think it will be very difficult without american help, he says. our supplies are also ending, so we need theirs. >> reporter: that is ukrainian soldier that you're hearing from there is ukrainian president zelenskyy is also bringing that same appeal to the white house and capitol hill tomorrow. he says that putin is seeing his, quote, dreams come true, as delays for more aid are continuing in congress tonight. i'm joined now by republican senator, ron johnson of wisconsin. senator, thanks for joining on such an important issue. obviously, as i mentioned, president zelenskyy is coming before the entire senate tomorrow morning. is there anything that you can hear from the ukrainian president that he could say, that could change your mind on getting ukraine aid bill passed before the end of the year? >> well, caitlin, first of all, i'm highly sympathetic with the courageous people of ukraine have been invaded by the war criminal putin. there's absolutely no doubt about that. at the same time, i'm highly sympathetic to all families who've lost loved ones to fentanyl overdoses. i'm highly sympathetic to the young women who are sex trafficked because of our open borders. president biden and democrats open for -- clear and present danger to america. about 6 million migrants during his administration enter this nation. either they've been encountered, processed, and disperse, or about 1. 7 million have been detected as gotaways. we have no idea who these people are or where they are, and you have hamas calling for days of rage. the fbi director saying that all the flashing lights, all the dangerous signals are flashing right now. something we need to be concerned about. so, unfortunately the, this is the only leveraging publicans have to force this administration to actually secure the border and i think we ought to take that opportunity because this is our top national security and homeland security priority, is to secure that border. >> i understand this is a big push from senate republicans. they want immigration changes tied to a part of this. i want to talk about your views on the border, what do you think needs to happen. but on this issue, specifically, do you believe that ukraine aid and another round of funding will get past this year, which the white house says it urgently needs to happen? not be punted to 2024? >> that is hard to say. we have to secure our border. not just getting minor immigration changes. we actually have to secure the border. see, national security is imperative. it's a priority for america. in terms of what happens in ukraine, you know, unfortunately, unfortunately, we are into the 22nd month of now what is just a bloody stalemate. it's not a fair fight. ukraine cannot really do what would be necessary to really defeat russia. so, the other way this war ends through a negotiated settlement. every day that goes by, more ukrainians die, more russian conscripts die. i take no pleasure in that. more of ukraine is destroyed. so, i think the strategy, on the part of the administration in ukraine, should be trying to, you know, use whatever aid they get to try and bring putin to a negotiated settlement. >> but if you don't give them any aid, i mean, what does that look like? unable to go she'd settlement, what do you think that they should see? how do you decide what to give up to russia? >> well, again, it's very difficult to say exactly what they need. we have heard different things. for one thing, we've heard putin's advisor, president zelenskyy, say they're stealing like there's no tomorrow. we heard that ukraine's, you know, pretty good funding through the winter and an all of a sudden now we see it in december. so unfortunately, you cannot trust this administration to tell you the truth. i would like to get the truth out of them, don't know if it's really going to be forthcoming. but again, the top priority of our nation right now is to secure our border. not just -- and not send american taxpayers. that sending tax dollars over to ukraine, as sympathetic as i am with ukrainian people. >> those questions you have about the policy, i mean, wasn't there a briefing on capitol hill last week where administration officials were there talking about why they needed more aid for this funding? did you ask those questions then? >> they don't answer the questions. again, one senator who've been, you know, briefed says that ukraine had, they were going to be fined through the end of the winter. and i asked a question, so why now is it at the end of the summer? you don't get a straight answer out of them. so again, you simply can't trust this administration to tell you the truth. >> but did you ask those questions? >> i asked, what is the endgame here? i asked, you know, when i was at president zelenskyy's inauguration, i met with him two months later. so, that was a chairman of the european subcommittee and foreign relations. back then, president zelenskyy wanted a peace agreement with putin. this is when putin had already annexed crimea -- in control of eastern ukraine. he wanted to a peace deal. i don't know what change from then to now. i know the impeachment was -- >> well, he invaded, i mean, sir, you can say russia, they invaded ukraine. >> i don't think you would've invaded under trump but he -- because of the weakness of this administration. it's a tragedy was happening because of president biden's weakness. >> senator, okay, you're saying you don't understand the change. russia did invade, we all watched it, of course, and that invasion is still going on. but you talk about your concern for the ukrainians and what happened there. i understand you don't like what you're hearing from the white house, but is the answer to that stopping all funding from to ukraine from the u.s.? because they are celebrating it, what happened in the senate last week on russian state tv -- >> i have said repeatedly, i would not only vote for, but i would promote funding for ukraine if it's made contingent of actually securing the border. by establishing metrics, monthly metrics that the administration would have to meet before the funding would flow on a monthly basis. i would vote for that, i would promote it. but this administration must secure the border before we sent additional funding to ukraine. it's an easy proposition. we would be doing the administration and enormous political favor if we force them to secure the border. that would take one of the biggest problems president biden has, in terms of his reelection, off the table. we would force him to do that. we would be doing him a huge favor. i don't know why he doesn't understand that. >> what you are asking for, and i'm not sure this would work, is basically, you want aid to ukraine conditioned on how many people are crossing the u.s. southern border? i think that's a big question. >> yes. >> before i let you go, senator, i do want to ask about this. obviously, it's your home state. ten republicans who signed paperwork, falsely claiming that trump won there in the 2020 election have now agreed to withdraw that paperwork, acknowledge that joe biden did win the election, and also agreed to not serve as an elector in the 2024 election or at any election where trump is on the ballot. but there is one person who still serves, robert spindle, in a state agency that is responsible for administering administering elections and certifying the results. do you think that he should resign from that, given the role he played in the fake elector scheme? >> no. again, there was an active court case. there -- irregularities in wisconsin with the 2020 election. in order to make sure that the case -- wasn't determined to be moot, they had to have an alternate slate of electors, just like democrats have done repeatedly. in all kinds of different states. there was nothing on turin about what they did. there's nothing illegal about what they did. they were just an alternate slate of electors. >> they were going to court, they had two point $4 million on the line in damages if they lost this case in trial. that's why they took this deal. but you are saying that they didn't -- >> democrats of using civil courts to harass these four individuals. it's unfortunate, it's a travesty. but that's what democrats do. they view politics as a blood sport. it was unfortunate. these folks did nothing different than what many democrats have done in many states. >> they certainly did, senator. i mean, there were multiple slates of fake electors, including in your home state. they are acknowledging that they were playing a role in trying to improperly overturn the election. that is what they said -- >> they got themselves out of a nuisance lawsuit. they agreed to get, to settle a nuisance lawsuit that never should've been brought. >> so, you think it's fine that -- >> it's a travesty of justice. >> you think it's find that someone who tried to overturn a legitimate election is still -- >> democrat electors have done that repeatedly. >> which one? in wisconsin there have been fake slates of electors? >> no, it's happened in different states. >> which ones, sir? >> i didn't prepare to give you the exact states, but it's happened repeatedly. it has happened repeatedly. just go check the books. >> which books? >> i mean, there have been alternate slates of electors by democrats electors in our history. again, this wasn't what this interview was going to be about. i will come and provide to the information, but i -- >> okay, i look forward to your office sending that information. we will publish it if it is accurate. senator ron johnson, a busy day ahead on capitol hill, thank you for your time tonight. >> and merry christmas. >> meanwhile in russia, putin's nemesis and opposition leader, alexei navalny, apparently has disappeared from prison. the white house says it's deeply concerned by this development, what his daughter is now saying tonight. is now saying tonight. (♪♪) (♪♪) (♪♪) get exclusive offers on select new volvo models. contact your volvo retailer to learn more. john dickerson >> tonight, russia's most prominent opposition leader and one of vladimir putin's fiercest critics, his arch nemesis, really, alexei navalny, appears to be missing. putin finds him to be such a threat that you may recall russian agents tried to kill him by poisoning his underwear with a lethal nerve agent. he survived, but just barely, and despite that attack on his life, he returned to moscow. navalny wasn't convicted on bogus charges and sent to a harsh penal colony. his daughter just spoke to anderson cooper about these concerns about his whereabouts tonight. >> there have been many instances where they have transferred him or just didn't want him to come out because whenever my dad has a court hearing, he uses that to speak up against a war or tell people to question the regime, and putin has actually just announced that he's going to be running for reelection in the coming presidential elections, and they don't want my father to speak up against that. >> here with me tonight is the director of the cnn film's oscar-winning documentary, navalny, daniel roar. daniel, thank you for being here. i mean, i know that you've been speaking with navalny's daughter that we just saw there, his other family members who are obviously deeply concerned about him tonight. what have you heard from them? >> well, kaitlan, in addition to what the rest of the world knows, that navalny has functionally been disappeared by the russian government, we don't know where he is and that is so very unsettling in lieu of assassination attempts and repeated attempts to silence him over the last 24 months, over the last ten years, really. but on an emotional level, for dasha and yulia, alexei's daughter, life, obviously it's devastating and upsetting and disorienting when your husband and father just disappears at the hands of this regime. it's very, very unsettling. >> what is your sense of what putin is doing here? i mean, after being part of that documentary that was so incredible and just really showed what a threat navalny's to putin, how much he views him as a threat, what's your biggest fear about this? >> well, caitlin, i think it goes without saying that my biggest fear is that the regime is trying to murder alexei. this is a project that they started years ago, originally, they tried to poison him with a nerve agent called novichok. the events of which are depicted in our documentary. and since then, they've thrown him in prison, where he's been in a gulag, in solitary confinement, in torture's conditions, for the better part of the last three years. it is very clear that they're trying to silence him. now, this latest disappearance comes three or four days after putin announces that he's going to be running again and russia's next sham election for another six years of power. and it's no coincidence that navalny disappears, i mean, three or four days after putin makes that announcement. what it really speaks to is just how frightened the regime is, how nervous putin personally is about this guy. >> i think it's obviously just such a concern for everyone. of course, no answers that his family or his attorneys have gotten and we will be watching it all closely. daniel royer, thank you. meanwhile, another story that we're following here. rudy giuliani was back in court today, found liable for defaming two election workers. now a jury is about to decide the price that he is going to pay. donald trump's former lawyer rudy giuliani facing a potentially ruinous trial of his own tonight, as he could be forced to pay up to $43 million in damages to the two former georgia election workers, mother, daughter, ruby freeman and shaye moss, you know them, well who are simply doing their jobs back in 2021 giuliani falsely accuse them of voter fraud, trying to demonize them as symbols of a rigged election that wasn't rigged. he claimed that they were acting suspiciously, and yeah, i'm being serious now, claiming they were acting like drug dealers, accusations that led to them being harassed by people who even showed up at their home. rudy giuliani has already been found liable for defaming these two women. but now we are in the penalty phase of this case. this is how day one went. >> do you regret what you did -- >> of course i don't regret. i told the truth. they were engaged in changing of votes. >> there is no proof of that. >> you're damn right about that. stay tuned. >> there is no proof of that. not true, wasn't, isn't true now. here tonight is someone with the truth, andrew kirtzman, who knows rudy giuliani extremely well, having followed him for three decades as a political reporter and the author of giuliani: the rise and tragic fall of america's mayor. i mean, what do you make of the defiance that you see of him coming out of court as he did today? >> extraordinary. it's very characteristic of giuliani, who never admits fault in anything. but seeing what he's facing in terms of damages and sticking to that allegation is really something. it's really something. >> i mean, he might potentially have to pay a lot of money we know he doesn't have. his attorney was saying today that $43 million would be the civil equivalent of the death penalty. but i wonder as someone who's covered him for as long as you have, what do you make of the fact that he's being held accountable for what he said? >> i think giuliani is finally paying the price for a lifetime of character assassination. i mean, destroying reputations is what rudy giuliani does. he did it as prosecutor, he did it as mayor. in my book, i write about an election campaign in catholic school, where he stood up at an audience and eviscerated a candidate for senior class president. this is what giuliani is and what he's done. and you know, in some ways, the public, when he was mayor, kind of appreciated it. i mean, he took over new york city as a mayor when new york was in decline. his predecessor was kind of a passive presence. and giuliani was a fighter. and the new york times endorsed him for reelection in 1997, they called him a human hand grenade. there was something about him that people -- >> they meant it as a compliment? >> they meant it as a compliment, absolutely. >> and now, the pin has been pulled. >> donald trump certainly liked those qualities in giuliani. and the problem now in this trial is that he's under a microscope because they lost the election. and it was clearly easy to determine that giuliani was wrong about this. and now he's paying the price. >> but he's still defiant, coming out with his advisor there. but i've also noticed, just as someone who's covered this world and used to see rudy giuliani at the white house all the time, he seems very isolated from this life he used to have. >> sure, but he's also broke. so, i mean, he is -- at one point, when right after 9/11, his consulting firm earned $100 million in five years. i mean, he owned, what was it, seven houses and 11 country club memberships? i mean, he was on top of the world. you know, fast forward, he's selling his apartment, his last, i guess, asset, trying to stave off bankruptcy. >> so what does it mean if he gets hit with $43 million, i mean, even half of that? >> right, i think he will have to declare bankruptcy. i mean, he's got ten civil suits filed against him right now. he's been indicted. he's an unindicted coconspirator, conspirator in d.c.. >> just thinking of rudy giuliani having to file bankruptcy though, it's kind of remarkable to watch the political world to know what he used to be. >> right. well, you know, it's one of the great rise and fall stories of our lifetime. >> andrew kirtzman, as someone who's covered it, thank you for joining us tonight. and thank you for joining us tonight. cnn newsnight with abby philip starts right after a short break,k, so stick k around. [upbeat music] ♪♪ ♪♪ new pork carnitas. only at el pollo loco. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ (♪♪) (♪♪) the new festive family meal. starting at $24. now celebrating at el pollo loco. ♪ ♪ ♪ an extraordinary request in an extraordinary case. that's tonight, on newsnight. ♪ ♪ ♪

Related Keywords

News , Surface , Jack Smith , Reporter , Supreme Court , Election , High Court , Prosecution , Trump , Claim , Consideration , Caitlin Collins , Requests , Source , Court On Jack Smith Second Case , Rudy Giuliani In Court Today , Jury , Lives , Election Workers , Two , Woman , America , Abortion , Texas Supreme Court , Home State , Latest , Courtroom , Center , Flash Point , Reporting , Documents , President , Employee , Phone Call , Special Counsel , Interest , Mar A Lago , Nation , Warning , Conversations , District Court , Case , Justices , Matter , Heart , Argument , Whether , Fast Track , Democracy , Nothing , Troubles , Quote , Lawyers , Game , Presidents , Team , Filing , Crimes , Accountable , Nine , Office , Basis , 20 , December 20th , Appellate Process , Everything , Rights , Connection , John Lauro , Policies , Facts , Procedure , Maneuver , Nixon , Tape Recorders , Refusal , Big Question , Justice , History , Privilege , Wasn T , Committee , Manhattan District Attorney , Counsel , Junior , Timothy Gunky Millers , Six , Terms , Precedent , Calendar , Call , Court Calendar , Step , It , Thing , Expediting , Tim , Trump V Vance , Someone , Conduct , Fifth Avenue , Court , View , Crime , Subbed , Protections , Appeals Court , More , Term , Fact , Sign , Resolution , Gonna Go To The Supreme Court , Ways , Things , Circuit , Deadlines , Forecheck , Immunity , Move , Bluff , Decider , Let S Go , Presidency , Delay , Court Room , Side , Wall , Experience , Tactic , Trump Delaying Tactic , Litigating , Tax Returns , Issue , Level , Second Circuit , The Pellet , Request , Guess , Importance , Timing , Hearing , Merits , Senators , Wife , Ginni Thomas , Makeup , Efforts , Clarence Thomas , One , Messages , Mark Meadows , Calls , Consideration Airport Pete , White House , Meadows , Election Results , Support , Husband , Chutkan , Example , Issues , Scenario , Access , Opinion , Courts , Supreme Court Justice , Independents , Something , Part , Phone , Feeling , Trump S Use , Orbit , Planning , Data , Fbi , Criminal Conduct , Cyrus , Three , Florida , Interactions , Reminders , Business Matter , Offers , Golf Tournament , Tickets , Representation , Kaitlan Pollens , Quickie , Information , Circle , Witnesses , Wagons , Theory , Response , Doing , Subpoenas , Way , Investigation , Sense , Where , Intent , Anthony Scaramucci , Anywhere , Violence , Skin , Brief Stint , Everyone , Communications Director , Drought , Mr , Head , Postcards Tree , Passing The , Jack , Strategy , Mind , People , Counts , Indictments , Component , System , John Gaudy , Capone , 91 , Conservatives , Euntouchable , Favor , Shot , Caitlin , Doesn T , Trial , Schedule , Cases , Prison Sentence , March , Point , Conviction , Equation , Witch Hunt , Leadership , District Attorneys , Democratic , Chief Of Staff , Freedom Caucus , Attorney Generals , Wheelhouse , Reason , Lot , Judgment , Sources , Morality , Evidence , Wasn T Legal , Proof , Front , Others , What S Going On , Guns , Impartiality , Five , Appointees , Thought , Law , Country , Least , Last , Above The Law , No One , Have , Clinton , Prosecutions , Citizenry , Kettle Of Fish , Estate , Women , Texas , Immunities , Emergency Abortion , Developments , Disposition , Ruling , Alexei Navalny , Attorneys , Health , Russian , Whereabouts , Mystery , Coming Up , Kate Cox , Pregnancy , Doctors , Fight , Attack , Turn , Risk , Child , Emergency Abortion Procedure , Condition , Elsewhere , Emergency Room , Exception , Permission , Aaron Burrow , Family , Who Haven T , Cnn , Mother , Pregnancies , Ones , Parent , Disputes , Difficulties , Compasses , Feelings , States , Idea , Questioning , Capitals , Judges , Advice , Women S , Sorts , Fetus , Process , Ectopic Pregnancy , Life , Fighting , Choice , Right , Fertility , 21 , Don T , Health Care , Ability , Cavalierly , Village , Friends , Pillow , Bed , Hotel , Work , Stay , Cost , Care , Order , Somewhere Else , God S Will , Politicians , Cannot , Shame , Orban , Baby , Big Gasp For Air , Kidneys , 90 , Women In America , Arms , Laws , 14 , Inaudible , Zing Doctors , Indignant , Chrome Manila , Showing , Aftermath , Somewhere , Amount , Another , , Savings , Deborah Dorbert , Home , Procedures , Doctor , Nails , Places , Some , Recovery , Thousands , Coast , End , Done , Annie Yahoo , Charges , Suits , Anybody , Yahoo , Chapter , The Handmaid S Tale , Indignation , Danger , Balance , Infuriation , 2023 , Men , State Capitals , Navarro , Voting , Zelenskyy , Story , Ukrainian , Everybody , Aid Package , Rescue , Republican , Washington , Up Next , Guests , Outcome , Pork Carnitas , Music , El Pollo Loco , Kim , Internet , Devices , Mom , Loved Ones , Memories , Joy , Team Usa Training Facility , Family Meal , 4 , 24 , Fear , President Putin , Ukrainians , Missile , Troops , Capital , Battlefield , Drones , Weapons , Forces , Russians , Kyiv , Funding , Immigration , Supplies , Demands , Negotiations , Help , Translator , Ending , Dwindling , Soldier , Vladimir Putin , Senator , Ron Johnson , Aid , Delays , Capitol Hill , Wisconsin , Thanks , Appeal , Dreams Come True , Congress , Anything , Senate , Bill , Ukraine , Families , Doubt , The War Criminal Putin , Fentanyl Overdoses , Administration , Joe Biden , Borders , Clear And Present Danger , Sex , 6 Million , Director , Calling , Days Of Rage , Gotaways , Hamas , Flashing Lights , 7 Million , 1 , Border , Opportunity , Security , Signals , Publicans , Homeland Security Priority , Views , Big Push , Ground , 2024 , National Security , Priority , Stalemate , Immigration Changes , Ukraine Cannot , 22 , War , Settlement , Pleasure , Conscripts Die , Use , Advisor , There S No Tomorrow , Truth , Winter , Questions , Policy , Tax , Taxpayers , Officials , Navalny Wasn T , Briefing , Answer , Summer , Endgame , Inauguration , Subcommittee , Chairman , European , Peace Deal , Control , Relations , Peace Agreement , Crimea , Sir , Weakness , Tragedy , Impeachment , Course , Concern , Invasion , Change , Contingent , State Tv , Metrics , Reelection , Biden Has , Proposition , Table , Paperwork , Southern Border , Yes , 2020 , Ten , Elections , Elector , Robert Spindle , Role , State Agency , Irregularities , Court Case , Scheme , Results , Ballot , Electors , Slate , Kinds , Wasn T Determined , Turin , Damages , Deal , Line , A Million , 4 Million , Travesty , Folks , Politics , Individuals , Blood Sport , Four , Slates , Fake Electors , Nuisance Lawsuit , Books , Interview , Democrats Electors , Opposition Leader , Nemesis , Merry Christmas , Daughter , Prison , Development , Models , Retailer , Volvo , John Dickerson , Arch Nemesis , Critics , Threat , Nerve Agent , Agents , Underwear , Moscow , Concerns , Penal Colony , Anderson Cooper , Regime , Instances , Court Hearing , Dad , Father , Daniel Roar , Cnn Film S Oscar Winning Documentary , Family Members , World , Addition , Kaitlan , Rest , Assassination Attempts , Government , Lieu , Yulia , Hands , Attempts , Upsetting , Alexei , Dasha , Documentary , Events , Project , Called Novichok , Murder Alexei , Conditions , Gulag , Solitary Confinement , Torture , Sham Election , Disappearance , Coincidence , Power , Guy , Announcement , Answers , Rudy Giuliani , Price , Daniel Royer , Tonight , Lawyer , 43 Million , 3 Million , Workers , Symbols , Jobs , Voter Fraud , Ruby Freeman , Georgia , Shaye Moss , 2021 , Drug Dealers , Liable , Accusations , Led , Day One , Penalty Phase , Regret , Andrew Kirtzman , Isn T True Now , Votes , Mayor , Rise , Author , Defiance , Fault , Allegation , Who , Attorney , Death Penalty , Money , Equivalent , Lifetime , Reputations , Character Assassination , Catholic School , Prosecutor , Book , Election Campaign , Audience , Kind , Public , Class , Candidate , Decline , New York City , New York Times , Presence , Fighter , Human Hand Grenade , Predecessor , 1997 , Compliment , Giuliani , Problem , Qualities , Spin , Microscope , There , Consulting , Top Of The World , Houses , Country Club , 11 , 00 Million , 100 Million , 9 11 , Seven , Bankruptcy , Asset , Apartment , Hit , Fast Forward , Conspirator In D C , Unindicted Coconspirator , Stories , Remarkable , Cnn Newsnight , Break , Abby Philip , On Newsnight ,