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MSNBCW Morning July 2, 2024



daddy's name is on buildings. he's accused of real estate fraud and eating glue. what you are witnessing is real. the participants are not actors. they are actual idiots with a case pending in a new york metropolitan area court. the people's court. [ laughter ] >> just missing judge watner, that smile. that's from jimmy kimmel's writers. we'll get details on the trial and show you what you said. also ahead, in the middle east, there is pressure on israel to take a humanitarian pause in its assault on hamas terrorists hiding in gaza. plus, an update on republican senator tommy tuberville's freeze on military promotions. the alabama lawmaker finally is facing public pressure from members of his own party, but you won't believe what he said this time. and we'll go through the verdict in a high-profile fraud trial for a man once known as the crypto king, now convicted on several charges. good morning. welcome to "morning joe." it is friday, november 3rd. with us, we have the host of "way too early," white house bureau chief at "politico," jonathan lemire. and president emeritus on the council of foreign relations, richard haass. let's begin with israel, where they encircled gaza city and are fighting face-to-face battles with hamas. this as air strikes hammer the territory. israel has come under increasing international pressure to at least tporarily pause the fighting with hamas. prime minister benjamin netanyahu posted on social media yesterday that troops are making progress and, quote, nothing will stop us. meanwhile, fighting along israel's northern border with lebanon is intensifying. hezbollah has claimed to attack 19 israeli military targets. israel has not confirmed that specific claim, but military officials say there have been a number of launches from lebanon, and that israel is striking back, targeting the terrorist group's infrastructure. this comes as the leader of hezbollah today is expected to make his first public address since the israel-hamas war began. it'll likely indicate the group's next moves, raising fears the war could widen from here. joining us now from jerusalem, nbc news chief correspondent richard engel. what's the latest on the ground, including israel's response to the calls for a humanitarian pause so some of the aid can get into gaza? >> reporter: so that is going to be top of the agenda it seems during the visit by secretary blinken. he's arrived and, effectively, is pushing to slow this war down. call it a pause, a cease-fire. the united states isn't calling it a cease-fire, but an effort to slow down the fighting so that we don't enter into a cycle of violence that we cannot get out of, that israel cannot get out of, that israel, the united states has run into. israeli troops, according to the military, has encircled gaza city. it's the most dense part of the gaza strip. it was home to 800,000 people at one time. unclear how many are still in gaza city, but still quite a few. they're already in street to street fighting. israel has already taken casualties. there are many, many palestinian deaths every single day according to the health ministry. the number surpassed 9,000. israel has not outlined any clear, long-term plan or exit strategy, and now we have these looming threats from the region. increased tax by iran proxies. this speech coming from the leader of hezbollah later today. it seems that the secretary of state is trying to slow it down, perhaps for cooler heads to emerge and to find, potentially, a way out of this before there is no way out of this. >> richard, i know hezbollah has regretted in the past some incursions from the north with israel. i'm curious if the expectation in israel and around the middle east is that, actually, the leader today will announce that they are going to be opening up a new front from the north or if they're simply going to express solidarity with their brothers and hamas. >> reporter: the latter. people do not expect he is going to make an adjustment, and as soon as the address is done, there will be rocket fire raining down on israel. there might be some. there could be some attacks because there have already been attacks in the last several weeks since this war has begun, but we do not expect that as soon as he makes his announcement, we will have a new, wider war all across the middle east. the thinking from hamas, as best we can understand, and from hezbollah and from hamas, is that hamas is happy to drag israel into a long-term guerrilla war in gaza. they are hoping that this will be another vietnam or another somalia for israel. if israel is willing to take this bait, go into gaza, lose troops, then the thinking from hezbollah is it will wait. it will allow israel to get sucked into a quagmire in the middle east, potentially dragging in the united states, and then it could attack at a later stage. so we are, as i said, in a very critical phase, where israel is going deeper and deeper into the gaza strip. hamas seems very happy to pull israel into this fight, regardless of the consequences for the people of the gaza strip. no matter how many people are losing their lives in gaza. thousands of people are dying in gaza no matter who is counting the numbers. it is quite obvious. >> richard, obviously, there has been a split among israelis through the years about a group of israelis who are more hard core on their belief that there doesn't need to be a two-state solution. that israel needs to be as aggressive as they can starting up settlements in the west bank. obviously, there have been a large number of israelis who also believe that they need to move toward a two-state solution. tragically, many of the people who were slaughtered on october 7th were some of those people who thought there needed to be -- that peace needed to be made with the palestinians. i'm curious, for that faction, the more moderate wing in israel, are they talking about the possibility to pull back? or is israel, and it'd be understanding, are israeli politicians where our politicians were on september 12th, 2001? >> reporter: i think you're closer to the latter. it's more politicians are where the united states was on september 12th. this government was already right wing before this happened. there were protests on the street. the right-wing israelis were in the street protesting against the government, protesting against netanyahu, because he'd formed a coalition with some of the most extreme elements in israeli society. that government, which had netanyahu and these extreme elements, and many said he was pandering to the extreme elements, trying to change laws in society, empowering extremist settlers in the west bank, provoing palestinians, that was the situation at the beginning of the conflict. now, that government, though it has expanded, including some other members to form a war cabinet, is at war. many people in israel are determined to go to war. if you remember the days after 9/11, there was a movement in the united states where people were angry. they were outraged. they were attacking muslims on the street. they were attacking people on the streets. what did they do? they ended up invading iran, which had nothing to do with 9/11. they broke the country and spent years trying to put it back together. there are voices saying, slow down. be careful what you do. don't go into a war without a long-term plan. ultimately, that debate is happening. while that debate is happening, the fighting is still under way. netanyahu is refusing any kind of cease-fire. i think it is also important not to get too hung up on the terminology. what is a pause? what is a cease-fire? to a degree, the practicality is, they're the same thing, you stop fighting. but the reason the united states says it can never have a cease-fire with hamas, or israel says it can never have a cease-fire with hamas is it dignifies hamas too much. going to 9/11, u.s. would never have a cease-fire with al qaeda or isis because the group is evil and the fight against those will go on forever. but you could have a tactical humanitarian pause with al qaeda in order to free some hostages or do some practical deal. >> right. >> but you can't give up on the principle of destroying the evil or removing them from power in the long term. there is a bit of language. you don't want to dignify the group, saying we're going into a written agreement with a group that is evil, that is holding hostages, a group that's murdered mothers and babies, a group who has shown their evil. but if there is pauses, cooler heads can prevail, get hostages out, and come up with the long-term strategy. who is going to govern the gaza strip once hamas is disarmed, if that day comes? >> right. if that day comes, richard. finally, the final question has to do with the west bank. you were in ramallah with us a couple weeks ago. we were talking to you from there. violence has sprung up between those extremist settlers and palestinians being attacked on the west bank. president biden even spoke of that in a joint press conference with the australian prime minister. is there already an understanding that even if israel achieves its goals of disarming hamas in gaza, that the extremist settlers on the west bank are going to cause a hell of a problem in moving toward that two-state solution? >> reporter: oh, they already are. since this war has begun, according to human rights groups, according to our own reporting, according to a new report from the united nations, violence by extremist settlers has increased significantly since the october 7th massacre by hamas. we saw some of it ourselves yesterday in multiple locations in the west bank. palestinians who are living there, moderate. we met an elderly couple, christian couple. they were on their land picking olives. and a group of extremist settlers came over in order to carry out revenge and started beating them up. beat up an elderly couple, then went back to their settlement, unprovoked and no repercussions. this kind of thing is happening all the time according to multiple human rights groups. that is only inflaming tensions. one palestinian activist from the palestinian authority who was beaten and humiliated told me, it's like a balloon. you push pressure. you keep inflating it, inflating it, and one day, it is going to explode. he said that there is this concern, that if that pressure from the settler violence continues, you're going to have an explosion of violence in the west bank and here in jerusalem, on top of the ongoing war against hamas in gaza. >> just so everybody who is watching knows what we're talking about right now, along with what's happening in gaza, what's been happening on the west bank has shaped israeli politics so much, and extremists on the far right have played a heavy hand in netanyahu remaining in power. many secular jews -- and if you could speak to this, richard, i know you've heard it there a lot -- many secular jews are enraged by the fact that the government has paid so much attention to these extremists, even let some of them into the government. what really angers the secular jews there, they make the most demands but are contemptuous of the military. >> reporter: so if you -- people have to understand. there is the gaza strip in the south, which is run by hamas. hamas is both a terrorist organization, has a military wing, but it also has a government function, in that it governs the gaza strip. right now, israel is in a war to remove hamas and destroy hamas in gaza. in the west bank, which is not connected to gaza, there is the palestinian authority. a far more moderate government that israel hopes will become the government for both the west bank and gaza. it's unclear if that is going to happen, but that's the idea. within the west bank, this separate territory, there are extreist settlers. the extremist settlers live in communities and, often, particularly in these days, in this climate of rage, they are leaving their settlements and attacking the palestinians around them. the government of israeli netanyahu, or prime minister netanyahu himself, formed a coalition with many of these settler leaders in order to keep himself in power, to order to form a government so he could continue to govern in country and stay in power. he's been a dominant political figure for the last 20 years. yes, secular israelis were saying, "you are pandering to the extreme right. you are giving these people too much power." now, that government is at war, and these deep fisures in society are emerging. why the timing is so critical for secretary blinken's visit right now, israeli troops have encircled gaza city. they're already in street fighting. they could enter into a much, much more dangerous phase of street fighting in gaza city. the settlers empowered by netanyahu, who are helping him stay in power, are acting in ways that are far more emboldened than they have been in the past, according to human rights groups and our own reporting. the israeli secular society that was opposed to netanyahu, opposed to these politics right now, are very concerned about what is happening here, very concerned that this country is going down a path that it'll be difficult to recover from. >> nbc news chief foreign correspondent richard engel giving us a great look at the larger picture around this war. richard in jerusalem, thanks so much. we appreciate it. richard haass, let's bring you into the conversation now. as richard mentioned, secretary of state blinken is on the ground in israel. he's expected to ask prime minister netanyahu for some measure of restraint, not a cease-fire but a humanitarian pause, then he'll go on tomorrow to jordan, where he will hear that israel needs to stop what it is doing. it needs to pull back entirely. what is the line he is walking there, and what are the options on the table here between a cease-fire, a humanitarian pause, and everything else that is being discussed? >> yeah, let's start with your second point about going to jordan. as i understand it, willie, there is no longer an israeli ambassador in jordan. the jordanians removed their ambassador from israel. what that tells us is all that's been accomplished on a positive side in the middle east is somewhat vulnerable. we shouldn't assume there can't be backsliding. jordan is a country that is predominantly palestinian and is extraordinarily worried that instability, like we're seeing in gaza, could see -- you were just talking about it with richard engel in the west bank, could ultimately spread. that's a concern, to avoid instability showinglsewhere in the middle east. in terms of what the secretary of state is trying to do, i think what we're seeing is the administration trying to come up with a -- something of a compromise position. on one hand, you have what bibi netanyahu and what this israeli war cabinet is doing, which is a large military operation, air and ground in gaza. hope idea is to remove gaza from power, essentially regime change. remove hamas from power. regime change, remove it as a military factor, occupy it, and hand it off to somebody. all sorts of questions about the feasibility of that. obviously, the costs of that are extraordinarily high in terms of civilian casualties, and the administration is worried about the blowback from that. on the other hand, in new york, you have people saying, we need an immediate cease-fire. the administration, i think for good reason, doesn't like that either. that would mean israel can't retaliate and can't deal with the continuing threat posed by hamas. so i think what you're seeing tony blinken do is begin to look for a third option, a middle path that would allow israel to continue the war, but there would be humanitarian pauses, in part to get aid in, maybe to get some hostages out. really, the administration wants israel to become much more discriminating in what it does militarily, and not think this is the sort of thing you can resolve in a week or a month of military activity. slow it down. think long term. that also gives you a chance to introduce some political dimensions to israeli policy. problem is, this israeli government is uninterested in this. i think what's going to be really interesting with secretary blinken's visit and the days after is, right now, the united states and israel have been really close since october 7th. president biden has banked an awful lot of goodwill in israel. the question is, what happens when american foreign policy begins now, some space opens up between what this administration wants and what the government of bibi wants. we're getting to that. >> there was a call for a sort-term cessation, the term they're using. we have cease-fire, cessation, pause, different terminology to try to get the hostages out for one thing, and also to get humanitarian aid. you led me to my next question. is bibi netanyahu going to be receptive to any of this? from his point of view, we have bloodthirsty terrorists. we know what they do. we saw it on october 7th. they're waiting to kill us. i'm not waiting for them to come get us. what is this? >> he's not a partner at all on that or anything else, let's be honest. indeed, it is dangerous to speculate on people's political motives, but i think, going back to your previous conversation, a lot of the mood in israel is understandably for revenge. bibi netanyahu is extraordinarily vulnerable politically over what happened on october 7th on his watch. a lot of anger against him. i believe he sees a massive military victory, quote, unquote, as the best way of changing the debate, changing the narrative in israel. so i don't see him or those around him, necessarily, being partners at all. but look, one thing that is totally predictable is the mood in israel will change. you used the comparisons before, joe did, to 9/11. the american debate changed. the support for the bush administration changed as the cost of iraq mounted, as the prospects for success diminished. that low pressure here. over time, i believe israel is on a strategy where popular support in israel will fade as the military costs go up, as this does turn into something of a protracted guerrilla conflict, and there is no partner to work with. there is no one israel can hand over authority for in gaza. the palestinian authority can barely run the west bank. they're not going to run gaza. the arab world don't want a part of this. they want to stay away from the palestinian issue. the united nations, that's not a serious outfit when it comes to coming into a situation like this. this wouldn't simply be peacekeeping, willie. this would be peacemaking. you would have continued resistance from hamas. the israelis themselves, as an occupying force, wouldn't be seen as legitimate to hand over political authority to anybody else. this is going to get increasingly, increasingly difficult. again, the administration is trying to get the israelis to think about the pace and the scale of what they're doing. bibi netanyahu is going to resist. i think that area of friction, and the question then is how far does the administration go? basically, do they start disagreeing with the israeli government in public and not just in private? then what happens? that's where i think we're heading to. >> well, it certainly is going to be difficult for the administration politically at home regardless. the pressure is going to be increasing, certainly, among people inside the democratic party, for them to move toward a cease-fire. there is going to be pressure from many others for just an unequivocal support of israel. but make no mistake about it, while hamas was planning this out, they knew they could rape. they knew they could torre chun. they knew they could torture and burn israelis, commit the most vile and evil acts of savagery, and they knew this point would come. you may like it. you may not like it

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