everybody all right? everybody make it through okay? yes we did. good evening, welcome to our special coverage of the third republican presidential primary debate which was held today in downtown miami, florida. the debate just wrapped up seconds ago, after two hours onstage. you can see there, the debate hall, some of the candidates, the five candidates who participated, still milling there. people in the audience the milling there. just finishing up within the last few moments. i am rachel maddow, here at msnbc headquarters, with my colleagues, michael wallace, joy reid, stephanie ruhle and lawrence o'donnell. tonight's debate in miami was a home game for one of the candidates, ron desantis. of course, it's the governor of florida, a heck of a lot good that is doing him. a poll out just before the debate shows governor desantis losing his home state, at least as far as the polling says by 39 points against his constituent, florida man and former president donald trump, who was not at tonight's debate, just like the first two debates, former president donald trump was a no-show again tonight. he was about ten miles away, holding his own competing event which was kind of the standard trump eventing. tonight's event, in downtown miami was the first republican debate not hosted by fox news. it was hosted by our nbc news colleague's lester holt and kristen walker, along with conservative talk radio host hugh hewitt. right at the gates, the matter raiders asked candidates about a question that a lot of them had been reluctant to answer or had a hard time coming up with an answer to, the very basic simple question, when the polling looks like this, why should you be the nominee, and not donald trump? >> donald trump is a lot different biden he was in 2016. he owes it to you to be on the stage and explain why he should get another chance. he should explain why he did not have mexico pay for the border wall. he should explain why he racked up so much the. he should explain why he did not drain the swamp, and he said republicans got tired of winning but we saw last night, i am sick of republicans losing. >> the republicans losing team was a recurring one tonight, which is a little awkward for republican candidate debate. but rhonda sentence there was referring to the fact that the next debate happened just 24 hours after a bang up election night for democrats. democrats and liberals effectively won all over the country last night. a democrat when the governor's race in red kentucky. democrats took both houses of the legislator in virginia. ohioans voted resoundingly to enshrine abortion rights and the states constitution. abortion is a driving force behind democratic victories by around the country right. now andy candidates onstage tonight in miami were asked what the path forward should be for the republican party on this issue, as they keep getting bashed at the polls on this issue, over and over again in blue states, in red states, every time and every way, the question gets asked. some of the candidates were quite gymnastic and avoiding specific answers to that question. south carolina senator tim scott was not one of them. he just jumped right in and said that he wants a national abortion ban. >> senator scott, i would like you to weigh in. how do you see the path forward? what do you make of what ambassador ali says? you see this as a consensus issue? >> i am 100% pro-life. i have a 100% pro-life voting record. i would as president of the united states, have a 15-week national limit. >> stop saying ban, no he slim, but that is the only adaptation that you have seen on that issue. another team of tonight's debate, back for an encore from the last debate, was just the deep palpable, withering discussed that candidate evac ramaswamy seems to inspire from his fellow candidates. he makes them say things that you can't imagine they ever set before in their lives. he makes them make facial expressions on the stage that you're quite sure that they don't know that they're making in public. he really brings out a sight of them that makes news, frankly. here he was with former south carolina governor nikki haley, on a section of the debate about whether the chinese owned app tiktok should be banned. i should mention, this back and forth ended with one of the candidates saying something i have never heard ever in any debate that i have ever covered and all my years on this earth. >> i want to laugh at why if you really did not answer this question, which is about looking families in the eye. in the last debate, she made fun of me for actually joining tiktok. well, her own daughter sexy is in the after a long time. you might want to take care of your family first. >> the my daughter out of your voice. >> you might want to check on your own daughter. the next generation of americans are using, and that is actually the point. [applause] the average supporter pop in her up, that is fine. here's the truth -- >> what she said there was, you are just scum. i think if they all said what they really meant, this could be a lot more clarified. wow, never seen that in any debate at any level, and i have covered somewhere debates at weird levels. but for all of that, this in question hands over the debate as all the others. do the fights between these fine folks matter? is this a real part at the republican party reckoning, what whoever the nominee for the president will be next year, whether the fact that former president donald trump is running 40 plus, in some cas? nicole wallace, i will turn to you first. >> oh, god. >> because you are more reserved than usual on this issue, on watching this debate, i feel like you are more contained, less valuable than i usually see. >> do i have to answer? >> he thought the pitcher to, but he should. >> i wanna say what i really think, that will answer your last question. they don't matter. they don't matter. when i sat down, i said the most exciting part for me is seeing who's there, because i had no idea who is running second to ten. for me, it's exciting to see who is running second, third, fourth, i had no idea who would be there. it does not matter the republican primary voter. take us out of it. nikki haley called, the other guy, scum, okay, but the republican primary voters has weighed in, and they are not into any of these people. they want trump, and they want trump by legit numbers than i think anyone has ever been ahead this many weeks before the first primary contests tonight. i don't know that in modern history, anyone has ever been 50, 60, 39 points ahead of the next person at the november mark, ahead of the first primary ever. >> then why aren't any of them going for the jugular, when it comes to him? the guy was sitting in a courtroom, humiliating himself on monday. he faces 91 counts. they just lost three times, you're right, he is far, far ahead, so for anyone of them, their only shot is to go for him and none of them did. >> that's because they think, they're probably not going to land that shot, and their future republican politics is with this policy, with this group of voters that only like i. if they are seen as because that guy, then there are. toast >> then why did we waste 20 minutes having this subset they've conversation about foreign policy, or some of them made coaching arguments, and we're all forgetting the fact that when it comes to foreign policy, at best, donald trump cozies up to vladimir putin, writes love letters to kim jong-un and most recently, set hezbollah is really darn smart. >> two comments, one, if you could bottle the contempt that nikki haley feels for evac ramaswamy, i feel like you could power a small town with the hate. she hate that guy. >> she hates, yeah. >> oh, my god. you can feel it through the screen. that is one thing, i would say. i think they all don't like him, but she really don't like him. the second thing is, i sort of felt like nikki haley and chris christie are not running for president now. they are sort of beseeching the republican party at the point after trump to come back to, to come back into its body, get there so back antibody, because their whole composition is so disconnected from trump's existence on this earth, they are almost normal. it's really jarring to hear them both sound like normie republicans and a rope in which nobody wants that in that party. >> or maybe they will someday. >> sunday, i feel like chris christie, even his appearance in public, he is begging the party to come back. i don't think he is succeeding. he is going nowhere in the pulse. it could be like a ticket together on some members. >> lawrence o'donnell? >> i must, it's my turn. >> everybody has to actually speak. you can't say i am not -- his a thing, it's not really what i think. yet the so you think. >> let me check my notes. here's my notes. my notes. it was really just that one word, those are my notes. it's easy to remember this is by the way, the first republican debate that i have watched. luckily, i have been working at ten pm during the previous republican debates, and i did not have to participate in any of this. i now see that vivek is the mvp of the panel for this reason. he makes everyone else look better than they were ever going to look because, he is not just the most hated person by everyone on the stage, he's the most unhittable character who's ever had a role in the presidential debating in either party. so she's helping them by being up there. he's making nikki haley look better, look stronger, making everybody up their -- >> humanizing -- >> all of them better. this is the debate for, you know, in case trump chokes on a cheeseburger. that is what this debate is. if somehow, trump falls out, it's going to be desantis or haley. >> this is the question? are they just waiting for him to die, go to jail or drop out, because no one's going after him? >> no, fame is its own currency, politics, especially republican politics, as trump saw. vivek is running for nothing but fame. chris christie wishes to push up his fame, see if there might be more money in some sort of vacancy contra costa this. and i think haley and desantis are the two who think maybe we have a future for years from now, maybe, so we want to play credibly here. and tim scott is going to go back to his quiet life after this, and he is going to be a little bit more famous, and that might help him with talk radio gig or something like that. >> i think the debate is probably irrelevant for the reason stated, unless something happens. out of the three that we have seen so far, it was the more serious debate. we heard some of the first policy criticisms of trump as mentioned, maybe because it's not scary to say that that is high, you can walk it back. they are certainly not dealing with the ethical and legal feelings of donald trump as alleged in so many forms, but we heard more than. i thought the foreign policy was interesting as well. this is funny because, we think our colleagues are great. they did a good job, but even if i was trying to be as objective as possible, i think it's fair to say that there was kind of a more space for a wider range of important issues in america and international in the last debates. full disclosure though, -- i think that is true. we had this conversation that went across two important, very tense war zones, and i think i'd be also heard policy from republicans there who clearly were still trying to figure out, how do you santafee with this somewhat allegedly strong foreign policy lingo while also saying, desantis has it back out hear as a former military -- were not going to get involved. we're not going to get more involved overseas, there's this sort of tough sunday but anti interventionists mode. i don't know what that means to anyone, or if anyone cares, or if these people are going to be in foreign policy or be president, based on what we can tell, two months out, but i thought that was shocking. the last point, the most obvious is, these five voices matter a lot less than all of the voices of so many voters who rejected everything that their party is offering us a day. i'm sure we'll talk about the night. donald trump had to lie and deny about what happened in 2020 and a lot of people have burned up capital joining those lies. some of them will be helped and a trial in march. they underperformed in the midterms. they got slant is today in ohio and virginia. the election denialism, not only is false, a sort of has not been getting high on their own supply. i thought we saw on the abortion discussion, i don't think there is credibility on the lawful nice. but the lofton's, some have been for abortion bans and tried to put another way. i thought that was interesting, again, may not matter, on lawrence is blank no path. but we understand how they want to proceed. >> on your point, the republican position on abortion is more unpopular than the iraq war ever was. just the door of something universally agreed to that had been very unpopular forever. the 85% of all americans for abortion answer instances, not one of those people is speaking to 85% of all americans, not one. and the person that inch the closest was nikki haley and she got a roaring, thunderous applause from the republican primary debate. >> she said i respect people that are pro-choice. >> i was going to say dissenting. the one person that seems to be at least trying to drag the party toward something sin on abortion is nikki haley. she said that, essentially, i don't judge how people vote. i am not happy that people in some states decided to affirm abortion rights, but i don't touch them based on how they are voting. that was at least until she was reaching some sort of consensus, but you go all the way to the other end of it, where tim scott is, like ben abortion right now, i'm not going to let californians decide their own lives. yet chris christie make the coherent point that all of this time, conservatives have been yelling that it should be the states that the site on abortion, and that is -- subtly, they like to a national ban. there were all over the place. i think kristi and haley at least sound like they hear what is happening, the arrested them seemed completely tone-deaf. >> can i ask you as a veteran of republican campaigns on roe v. wade was in place, it seems that the abortion issue in those primaries was more stable, and there was a much closer set of agreed upon ways of talking about it, and so, was roe v. wade, in effect, protecting republican nominees and republican candidates from this kind of exposure that we're seeing now? >> of course, they were straight jacketed, because it was reprehensible to deny exceptions in cases of rape and incest and the life of the mother. it was never considered by the two republican nominees that i worked for, and on the other side was roe, which was decided by justices appointed by democratic republican presidents perceived as this marketing. i worked for a very pro-life president. our for a pro-life candidate for president. there was this policy and language straitjacket were you never, ever contemplated denying the exceptions, which are on the table for republicans and a lot of the state hands, alone a descriptions for the life of the mother. 93% opposition. republicans put themselves on the other three side of the 92%, and they wonder why they lost everything. >> in terms of their political skill in talking about it though, i think you're right, they actually have no idea because the straitjackets retire, they have no idea how to talk about it. there is this proverbial dog catching the car, they've no idea what to do with the, no idea how to talk about it, and the position that the party as found itself, and at their state legislators are imposing and stay out there stay at the state is so wildly unpopular that this backlash will be knocking them back for a long time, it is going to be a long time before they figure it out. >> the public sees through the slice. the whole lie was, these justices saying we're not doing anything right away. they said it under oath, when justice then judge kavanaugh was not crying, he was repeating under oath, we are not going to change anything right away. settle the law, super precedent. >> susan collins said yupe -- >> will take your word. you don't need a law degree to understand what is going on with the lies in your own body, and i think people see through it. they see through it in kansas and ohio, and then when you add to joyce's point, they came to the debate saying, even if we do this, it will still be at the local level, so you have a second say at this. no, that was another lie, and we have seen that. and ohio, what happened yesterday is that ohio's voters in a state that voted for trump twice said, no thanks, we reject this entire republican maga approach, and we want roe level protections enshrined in the same constitution for good. that is a big breakthrough, and that is what they are on the heels about. >> it's 20% more popular than biden, so biden is dealing with 20% on top of wherever he is, take that across the state. >> by the way, they're holding this debate in the state where on desantis was a nonentity, again in this debate, never made a dent, but he had pushed to, and the dead of night, he signed it ad midnight. that is how proud he was of the six-week abortion ban -- >> a total ban. >> and is also hurting the governor of iowa who endorsed, it, also has a six-week ban, it's dragging both of them numbers down, he did know how to address it. >> he did it to glenn youngkin yesterday. >> he did it to glenn youngkin yesterday. he's not learning what the voters are telling them. you know they understand it's bad, because they kept on one big lie, which is that democrats want abortion up until birth, which is not a thing. there is no such thing as abortion up until birth. that does not exist. but they all say it. they keep repeating it. i think even chris christie said it. i don't like the fact that -- >> in new jersey, chris christie says it's happening in new jersey every day. >> that's infanticide. no one gets to nine months pregnant. i have had three humans. you did not get to nine months pregnant and then decide, you know what, i change my mind, i don't want to be pregnant. that is absurd. it's actually libelous to women. it makes women sound stupid and craven and evil. the idea that you think that women having abortions at nine months means you don't understand science, you don't understand women's bodies, don't understand physiology -- >> and you think voters are stupid. >> i do think your voters are stupid. i think there's something interesting in these politics. no >> we're all talking about the committee with which voters are speaking on this issue, and i think that what we are seeing tonight is that republicans have to figure out how to talk about it. the republican who was trying on the stage tonight to speak about it in the way that was most relate-able and less offensive to most of the people listening to her was nikki haley, but what was after -- her piece on it, what was the very next thing she did? she attacked tim scott for not having support at the national 15-week ban. so she is trying to say, oh, no, we're going to try to do this differently in all the states, and we should stop being so divisive and don't try to impose your will on everybody else. and, you, tim scott, you can't be president because you did not sign on to a national ban. >> there is a very important point that you never hear in the presidential debates in either party. she raised the 60 vote threshold. it's hugely important, saying, none of this abortion stuff can happen federally, because you're never going to get 60 votes and the united states senate for any of this crazy stuff that these people are talking about, which also protects her then from not saying that she