unprecedented moment. for the first time in american history, a former president has been convicted for his criminal behavior while still serving as the presumptive republican nominee for president. donald trump calls the verdict rigged and himself, quote, a political prisoner. news break. he's not in prison. maga outrage. trump's allies including the house speaker and several potential republican vice presidential candidates are blasting the verdict and unleashing dangerous rhetoric against the justice system and our democracy itself. but, no one is above the law. president biden warns these attacks are reckless and irresponsible while trying to keep his campaign focus on issues important to voters. we'll talk about it all. the prosecution, and the politics. with congresswoman maxine waters of california and the reverend al sharpton. plus, michelle goldburg and tim miller. i'm jonathan capehart an this is the saturday show. and, an historic victory for american justice, accountability, and the rule of law. but a sad and solemn moment for the country. we find ourselves in uncharted territory. for the first time, a former american president and presumptive nominee for the 2024 republican nomination has been convicted of a felony. on thursday, a jury of donald trump's peers found him guilty on all 34 counts of falsifying business records in his new york election interference trial. now, the twice impeached former president remains indicted in three other criminal cases. but manhattan da alvin bragg who was widely criticized for bringing the hush money election interference is the only prosecutor so far who has been able to hold trump criminally accountable before the november election. trump's sentencing is set for july 11th, just four days before the party plans to formally nominate him for a third time. at the republican national convention in milwaukee, wisconsin. remember, a conviction does not prevent trump from running for president. which means four times indicted on 88 counts, civilly convicted of sexual abuse could end up back in the white house. now here's the smallest of silver linings. since thursday's conviction happened in a state case, trump won't be able to use executive power to pardon himself if he wins another term. but not everyone is thrilled that the court system, at least for now, has caught up to the man once referred to as teflon don. since the verdict, there has been a split screen of reactions to the outcome. on one side, earth one, folks are lauding the rule of law and the sacrifice with the 12 men and women of the jury. they spent weeks hearing from 22 different witnesses. deliberating more than nine hours. you know. exactly how our justice system is posed to function. in an alternate reality, earth 2, there has been a complete hair on fire maga meltdown. trump posted to social media in an all caps rage, i am the political prisoner of a failing nation. someone might want to tell him he is not technically a prisoner yet. in fact, he is at home in bedminister, new jersey as we speak. he laid out a rolodex of grievances including attacking judge juan merchan and calling the trial rigged. >> this is a case where if they can do this to me, they can do this to anyone. these are bad people. this is a scam. this is a rigged trial. it shouldn't have been in that venue. we shouldn't have had that judge. >> and trump isn't ngis rigged, they are demanding retribution. >> this is a purely political exercise. not a legal one. >> this is the most outrageous travesty i have ever seen. the problem here is democrats have crossed a line in which now the court system isn't a political weapon and it will be hard for it to not come back the other way. >> this is a justice system that hunts republicans while protecting democrats. this was certainly a hoax. a sham. it is clear vengeance is mine, sayeth the lord. the best way of making the world even is success is the best revenge. let's win. >> in his first public remark since the verdict, president biden stressed how dangerous the maga rhetoric has been around this trial and how important our justice system is. in times like this. >> the principling that no one is above the law is reafirearmed. it is dangerous, irresponsible for anyone to say this was rigged just because they don't like the verdict. our justice system has endured for 250 years. it is the corner stone of america. our justice system. the justice system should be respected. >> joining me now, democratic congresswoman maxine waters of california. the reverend al sharpton, host of msnbc's politics nation, founder and president of national action network, author of righteous troublemakers. untold stories of the social justice movement in america. tim miller, host of the podcast and msnbc political analyst and michelle goldberg. opinion columnist at the new york times and an msnbc political analyst. this is fantastic to have all four of you on the show today. congresswoman waters, i'm starting with you, because you predicted years ago, you said i'm counting on stormy. your reaction to thursday's incredible verdict? >> thank you so very much for having us all on, today. let me say it's a sad day. i'm still shocked and amazed that his supporters would follow him with the lies and the distortions that he continues to give to the american people. he says it is rigged. he says, if they can do this to me, they can do it to you. bringing in others to cover the lies that he is telling. i'm amazed that those who claim to be so patriotic are so unpatriotic. i'm watching not only what happened january 6th in washington dc. but what is happening now. and men and women in the republican party don't have the courage or the patriotism to stand up for democracy. this former president is wrong, when ever he loses, wherever he is loses, he'll say it is rigged. he will say somehow he doesn't deserve to have to be lawful. as the president said, no one is above the law. those jurors on that jury are to be commended for what they have done. you had seven men and five women who stepped up to the plate and did the hard work and rolled out to america and told america the truth. this man is guilty. not one time, two times, three times, but on all 34 counts. that's amazing. >> right. 34 times. as you were speaking congresswoman, you probably weren't able to see him beforehand. but he was nodding in agreement when you were talking about republicans not having the courage to stand up for the truth, tim. what's up with these folks? >> i was nodding at when councilwoman waters was saying they were being unpatriotic. it used to be the republicans if you turn the flag upside down, and attacked the fbi and said that the u.s. justice system is rigged and that we are a banana republic, that would have been anethema to people. now, these people sound like anarchists. they are authoritarian. they want to tear down the entire justice system. you had tim scott there in your lead in talking about how the justice system is hunting republicans. this is absurd. hunter biden starts trial in two days. >> when we play that sound byte of senator scott talking about you know, vengeance and everything, you were like whoa. >> i don't know how you tell your lies and then quote the bible. that was a little difficult for me. but let me say this. that i think we need to underscore. this whole case was about a man trying to cover his deeds. he had been exposed with the access hollywood tape. where he talked about how you deal with women is to grope them and i'm cleaning up what he really said. but many americans have seen that. it would have probably defeated him in his own mind. he was saying lock her up. fast forward to now. now we find 34 felonies and you got republicans saying how dare you? that's how he got there. accusing somebody of a crime. and covering up his crime when there was no crime. and what's at stake for america is if hillary clinton had become president, we wouldn't have had three supreme court justices that overturned roe v. wade, hurt voting rights, and turned down affirmative action. that was the difference for people that said voting doesn't matter. >> and michelle, let me bring you in here before we go to a break. it will be thanks to a remarkable testimony of a porn star he has done everything in his power to shame, silence, and discredit for eight years. >> yeah, and she has been through hell. and, has been so brave and so steadfast. and the fact that she testified at all is evidence of donald trump's unbelievable self- defeating stubbornness. there was actually no reason for her to testify, except at donald trump's defense insisted not only that there was nothing illegal about the hush money scheme, but that he hadn't slept with her at all. it is just lies on top of lies which can be a little numbing in the political sphere. but we have seen that they don't work in the legal sphere. >> you know what? i want to bring up something that speaker johnson said. his reaction to the verdict. let's play that and then we will talk about it. >> i do believe the supreme court should step in. obviously. this is totally unprecedented and it is dangerous to our system. i think the justices are deeply concerned about that as we are. i think they will set this straight. but it is going to take a while. you're right. the process takes a while to play out. this will be overturned guys. there is no question about it. it is just going the take some time. >> tim, the supreme court, do they have any jurisdiction? what is he talking about? >> i mean, these guys have become so presumptuous, they really think the supreme court is a political arm that will just do their bidding. that is how they act. that is how they treat this. that is how samuel alito acts when he thinks he can just go to fox and lie about the flag outside his house. no, they don't have any jurisdiction. that is just one lie about this whole process. tim scott, he said that the biden administration did this prosecution when it was da. there was no doj. either they don't understand the system or they are lying. >> what jumped out to me more than the entire thing of what the speaker just said is when he said i know many of them personally. >> that's right. well. i know many of them personally. implying that they and he are on the same page. that they are not going to make a judicial decision. why would you say you know them personally when you say they ought to be ruling on fairness of law? >> on the merit. >> it is to confirm what many have suspected. these were political nominees based on some partisan commitment and that is why we have deep concerns about this court. >> everybody? >> congresswoman, real fast. >> okay. you started out talking about i have predicted this. i knew stormy was a very strong woman and she was not going to take it from donald trump. and she stepped forward detail by detail and i expected her to do that. because of her, this case has gotten to where it has gotten to and she was the one that caused them to discover that he had lied on and filed false documents. thank you. >> and don't go anywhere. because this whole panel is going to be back. we have a lot to talk about. by later on, some perspective from nbc news historian michael about where americans go from here during an election season that could feel like flying an airplane into a hurricane. stay right here, you're watching the saturday show on msnbc. satdaury show on msnbc. you found it. the feeling of finding psoriasis can't filter out the real you. so go ahead, live unfiltered with the one and only sotyktu, a once-daily pill for moderate to severe plaque psoriasis, and the chance at clear or almost clear skin. it's like the feeling of finding you're so ready for your close-up. or finding you don't have to hide your skin just your background. once-daily sotyktu was proven better, getting more people clearer skin than the 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verdict, larry hogan posted on twitter regardless of the result, i urge all americans to respect the verdict and the legal process. and then, after the verdict, the senior adviser on the trump campaign quote tweeted that saying you just ended your campaign. how much of an albatross is this conviction of donald trump going to be for republican candidates down the ballot from trump? >> i would imagine. i think we have already seen some polling and it is still very early so it is hard to gauge. but most people approve of this conviction. i saw one poll today that said 49% of independents think that donald trump should drop out of the campaign as do i think around 15% of republicans. and so, yes. obviously, and it is not just this conviction. it is donald trump in general. we have seen over and over again, that the republican party is in a bind in many places. because on the one hand, you have the kind of candidates that donald trump and his movement will support. keep losing. not universally, but they have lost many races. the kind of candidates that can win in blue states are an anathema. >> here is the devil's advocate. is this the right way to put it. someone suggested that maybe that quote tweet of hogan could help him in a blue state like maryland to show that he is independent of donald trump. but will that work when you are runing in a party that is doing a lot of anti-reproductive right things around the country and we have two reproductive right cases that the supreme court will probably go the wrong way on. >> hogan is a deep outlier. he is the only one not advancing the delusions. it is a unique situation. i think probably it could help him but the problem is he has so many land mines in front of him. what will he say if trump wins begin, would you vote to convict? should he be allowed to pardon himself. there are a lot of questions where it is hard to be a republican and move away from trump in anyway. >> real quick, do you think he will be able to walk that dental floss? >> it will be very tough. >> now to the two democratic strategists here, if you will, is this a sound byte or a statement? this is a campaign statement. a biden campaign. the biden campaign writes the threat trump pose to our democracy has never been greater. he is running an increasingly unhinged campaign of revenge and retribution. pledging to be a dictator an day one so he can regain and keep power. a second trump term means chaos. it is up to the american people to reject this in november. how should the biden campaign and democrats respond to this? there have been people saying why weren't they out there in minute one hammering away at the conviction when i'm of the mind, we have time. >> we not only have time, we have three other cases and i think they have to be careful not to make it look like what trump is trying to say, this is a political witch hunt. what we need to really raise is this was about saving this country from going into an entire authoritarian type of government which is what trump is trying to do. so the contrast of this is striking to me. because had it not been for the civil voting rights movement, we would not be talking about reform. you would not have a black manhattan da that prosecuted this. and we wouldn't have had a black woman da in georgia. and a black judge in washington that will sit on the federal cases. had it not been for dr. king and jesse jackson. and maxine waters. so i'm proud that we are in the system. and we will make it work. and that is why i just had one of the central park five on my show. saying that it didn't work for me. now let's make it work for everybody fairly. that's why we didn't go down to the court march. we didn't go down and go in front of the gaggle of mics. because that's what they wanted. to say it was us that was forcing it. we let a jury hear the evidence. as congresswoman waters said, stormy stood up. call it stormy monday, but fuse is just as bad. >> congresswoman waters, your name has been invoked several times. we will give you the last word. what do you think? >> let me say when i tweeted about trump talking about the constitution, i basically said in my tweet that he had disregarded the constitution. i got over a million .3 hits on that. i think the american people see through him. and, they will be guarded in how they deal with the election. let me just say this. i am worried that he is so divisive and that he is talking about retribution. and about revenge. and i think that is dangerous. he has even mentioned civil war saying there will be bloodshed. i will spend some time with the criminal justice system. with the justice system requesting them, tell us what's going on with the domestic terrorists. are they preparing a civil war against us? should we be concerned? what is he doing with this divisive language? it is dangerous. and we are going to have to make sure that we understand that we are not at risk with this man talking in the way he is doing. this is not good for this country. but he does not care about democracy. he does not care about the constitution of the united states. he is in love with putin and russia and kim jong un and north korea and all of that. and so, it is not just that he is a criminal. this is a man who disrespects the constitution and democracy and we have to figure out what they are doing as domestic terrorists tried to take over the government january 6th. how far is this going to go? are they going to be attacking? whom are they going to attack? what are we going to do? i have to get on with trying to get an investigation going. >> and with that, we have to leave it there. congresswoman maxine waters of california. reverend al sharpton. tim miller. michelle goldbergful thank you all very much for coming to the saturday show. when we return, now that a jury has convicted trump on 34 felony counts, what happens to him next is up to judge merchan. we will explain how the former president's behavior between now and july 11th c